Hello,

I have Marantz CD6000 (not KI not OSE) and PM7000 amplifier. I'm wondering
about replacing NJE2114 in CD.

I found infos that LcAudio changed AD825 to AD8066 in theirs upgrades.

http://www.lcaudio.dk/ad8065.htm

I think about OPA2604, AD8620, OPA627, OPA2134,AD8066 in CD6000. 2604 and
the others is popular and well-known opamp in parameters, amplications,
sound, disadvantage and advantage. But what about new AD8066. What is 8066
in application and sound; in bas,mid, high; have it some emphasizes or some
minuses ? Which is the best op-amp to upgrade to achieve natural, warm
sound, no emphasize in middle and treble, no pain, no fatigue tone ? Have
you ever some experiences with changing op-amps in CD player ?



Thank you very much for all answers and suggestions

Best Regards

jimi

jimi wrote:
Hello,

I have Marantz CD6000 (not KI not OSE) and PM7000 amplifier. I'm
wondering about replacing NJE2114 in CD.

I found infos that LcAudio changed AD825 to AD8066 in theirs upgrades.

http://www.lcaudio.dk/ad8065.htm

I think about OPA2604, AD8620, OPA627, OPA2134,AD8066 in CD6000. 2604
and the others is popular and well-known opamp in parameters,
amplications, sound, disadvantage and advantage. But what about new
AD8066. What is 8066 in application and sound; in bas,mid, high; have
it some emphasizes or some minuses ? Which is the best op-amp to
upgrade to achieve natural, warm sound, no emphasize in middle and
treble, no pain, no fatigue tone ? Have you ever some experiences
with changing op-amps in CD player ?



Thank you very much for all answers and suggestions

Best Regards

jimi

Hi Jimi,
I couldn't find the NJE2114 data, but the AD8065 doesn't seem a very good
replacement for high-end Audio.
It is a high frequency fet opamp and probably good for ultrasound
applications. But the very high noise corner at around 7kHz raises the noise
from 7nV/sqrtHz to 35nV at 100Hz and even 120nV at 10Hz. Even an old NE5534
or OP27 have the noise corner below 10Hz and have there only 6nV/sqrtHz. If
we interpret these diagrams rightly we can assume that very low frequency
popcorn noise is at least 20 times higher in the AD8065. Another problem
might arise from layout, because these high freq amps are prone to
oscillations and overshoot especially in those pin headers. If you want to
upgrade, take an OP27 and solder it directly on the PCB. First of all know
what you are doing, don't waste your money for these overpriced modules.

Secondly the maximum supply voltage is only +/-12V, whereas the NE5534 has
+/-18V or even +/-22V maximum. So in some circuits they will let out smoke.
:-(

That page is made by idiots, who have no idea about engineering and just
cite some meaningless numbers from datasheets. I do not speak the language,
but I know German, French , Italian, Latin and Portuguese, so I could mostly
understand what was written.

ciao Ban
Bordighera, Italy

Ban wrote:
jimi wrote:
Hello,

I have Marantz CD6000 (not KI not OSE) and PM7000 amplifier. I'm
wondering about replacing NJE2114 in CD.

I found infos that LcAudio changed AD825 to AD8066 in theirs upgrades.

http://www.lcaudio.dk/ad8065.htm

I think about OPA2604, AD8620, OPA627, OPA2134,AD8066 in CD6000. 2604
and the others is popular and well-known opamp in parameters,
amplications, sound, disadvantage and advantage. But what about new
AD8066. What is 8066 in application and sound; in bas,mid, high; have
it some emphasizes or some minuses ? Which is the best op-amp to
upgrade to achieve natural, warm sound, no emphasize in middle and
treble, no pain, no fatigue tone ? Have you ever some experiences
with changing op-amps in CD player ?



Thank you very much for all answers and suggestions

Best Regards

jimi

Hi Jimi,
I couldn't find the NJE2114 data, but the AD8065 doesn't seem a very good
replacement for high-end Audio.
It is a high frequency fet opamp and probably good for ultrasound
applications. But the very high noise corner at around 7kHz raises the noise
from 7nV/sqrtHz to 35nV at 100Hz and even 120nV at 10Hz.

It appears that the spec'd 7nV/rt-Hz noise floor starts at 20KHz! Below
that the noise goes much higher, not much good for audio.

Even an old NE5534
or OP27 have the noise corner below 10Hz and have there only 6nV/sqrtHz. If
we interpret these diagrams rightly we can assume that very low frequency
popcorn noise is at least 20 times higher in the AD8065. Another problem
might arise from layout, because these high freq amps are prone to
oscillations and overshoot especially in those pin headers. If you want to
upgrade, take an OP27 and solder it directly on the PCB. First of all know
what you are doing, don't waste your money for these overpriced modules.

Secondly the maximum supply voltage is only +/-12V, whereas the NE5534 has
+/-18V or even +/-22V maximum. So in some circuits they will let out smoke.
:-(

That page is made by idiots, who have no idea about engineering and just
cite some meaningless numbers from datasheets. I do not speak the language,
but I know German, French , Italian, Latin and Portuguese, so I could mostly
understand what was written.

In general, most modders have no idea about electrical engineering.
Anyone who does not have the proper equipment (like spectrum analyzers
and distortion analyzers) or expertise and thinks he can outdo the
original designers by replacing parts (active and passive) in CD players
or other electronics is dreaming. Why buy the original product if you
think the design is not good enough?


ciao Ban
Bordighera, Italy

On Thu, 05 Feb 2004 21:00:23 GMT, chung wrote:

In general, most modders have no idea about electrical engineering.
Anyone who does not have the proper equipment (like spectrum analyzers
and distortion analyzers) or expertise and thinks he can outdo the
original designers by replacing parts (active and passive) in CD players
or other electronics is dreaming. Why buy the original product if you
think the design is not good enough?

While I agree with your skepticism about the ability of the typical
tweakers of consumer audio equipment, there are some reasons why the
manufacturers may not have used optimal parts. These relate to
component cost (that being multiplied considerably when reflected in
the final MSRP), component availability (companies need a reliable
supply commensurate with their delivery plans while a tweaker needs
only a few) and size (a tweaker may tolerate a tumor-like protrusion
or an accessory chassis that would not suit a commercial product).

Kal

Kalman Rubinson wrote:
On Thu, 05 Feb 2004 21:00:23 GMT, chung wrote:

In general, most modders have no idea about electrical engineering.
Anyone who does not have the proper equipment (like spectrum analyzers
and distortion analyzers) or expertise and thinks he can outdo the
original designers by replacing parts (active and passive) in CD players
or other electronics is dreaming. Why buy the original product if you
think the design is not good enough?

While I agree with your skepticism about the ability of the typical
tweakers of consumer audio equipment, there are some reasons why the
manufacturers may not have used optimal parts. These relate to
component cost (that being multiplied considerably when reflected in
the final MSRP), component availability (companies need a reliable
supply commensurate with their delivery plans while a tweaker needs
only a few) and size (a tweaker may tolerate a tumor-like protrusion
or an accessory chassis that would not suit a commercial product).

Kal

Can you provide some examples of worthwhile mods?

On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 04:21:59 GMT, chung wrote:

Can you provide some examples of worthwhile mods?

Nothing recent since I have not done any or much DIY in the last 10
years. However, I can recall one example.

In the old AA DITB, all the chips, digital and analog, were fed with
+/-5V. The chip mfrs spec sheets for the output opamps showed a
substantial rise in THD with such a reduced PS voltage, especially
since the DITB output at 0dB is +/-2V. Changing the Vregs so that the
available voltages were +/-5V and +/-12V and fed to the appropriate
pins, I was able to realize and measure a significant reduction in THD
on the analog outputs. I also added larger output caps and heatsinks
on all the chips. (Of course, they would have gotten even warmer at
the higher PS voltage had they not been heatsinked.)

I think that AA's decision to use the same +/-5V supplies for
everything was based on (1) reduced parts inventory and (2) an earlier
choice for the analog opamps. Nonetheless, the results were an
improvement compared to a stock DITB.

Kal

FYI

http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/cd67mods.html

Mladen

"jimi" wrote in message ...
Hello,

I have Marantz CD6000 (not KI not OSE) and PM7000 amplifier. I'm wondering
about replacing NJE2114 in CD.

I found infos that LcAudio changed AD825 to AD8066 in theirs upgrades.

http://www.lcaudio.dk/ad8065.htm

I think about OPA2604, AD8620, OPA627, OPA2134,AD8066 in CD6000. 2604 and
the others is popular and well-known opamp in parameters, amplications,
sound, disadvantage and advantage. But what about new AD8066. What is 8066
in application and sound; in bas,mid, high; have it some emphasizes or some
minuses ? Which is the best op-amp to upgrade to achieve natural, warm
sound, no emphasize in middle and treble, no pain, no fatigue tone ? Have
you ever some experiences with changing op-amps in CD player ?



Thank you very much for all answers and suggestions

Best Regards

jimi

Hi Jimi

I personally would not change anything on pcb board if not nesessary.
Maybe if someone would make "good" modifications and really could
point that this and this mod. really makes sound better, I may try it.
Most cd players are not very well shealded, that is one way to improve
yours.
I discovered out that denon S10 have good shealding around reading and
transport mechanism (whole assy. where cd spins), and thought that why
other middle class players do not have anything around assy. I build
up a sheald out of aluminium foil and carton around my Marantz
CD17mkII assy., and it improved sound. Also ambient temperature around
transport mechanism decreased (heat is the worst enemy of laser head).

Sorry about off topic

BRGDS
Riku

"Kalman Rubinson" wrote in message
news:EoRUb.107438$U%5.553285@attbi_s03...
On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 04:21:59 GMT, chung wrote:

Can you provide some examples of worthwhile mods?

Nothing recent since I have not done any or much DIY in the last 10
years. However, I can recall one example.

In the old AA DITB, all the chips, digital and analog, were fed with
+/-5V. The chip mfrs spec sheets for the output opamps showed a
substantial rise in THD with such a reduced PS voltage, especially
since the DITB output at 0dB is +/-2V. Changing the Vregs so that the
available voltages were +/-5V and +/-12V and fed to the appropriate
pins, I was able to realize and measure a significant reduction in THD
on the analog outputs. I also added larger output caps and heatsinks
on all the chips. (Of course, they would have gotten even warmer at
the higher PS voltage had they not been heatsinked.)

I think that AA's decision to use the same +/-5V supplies for
everything was based on (1) reduced parts inventory and (2) an earlier
choice for the analog opamps. Nonetheless, the results were an
improvement compared to a stock DITB.

Kal


To Chung's original question.

The mod's being done on SACD and DVD-A players generally involve
substituting a clock module, substituting better sounding opamps in the
outpout circuits, and upgrading the output capacitors to BlackGates. The
owners swear by them. I haven't heard them, or a before and after
comparison. Perhaps after my five year SONY warranty runs out I'll consider
it.

Harry

On 6 Feb 2004 22:18:47 GMT, "Harry Lavo" wrote:

To Chung's original question.

The mod's being done on SACD and DVD-A players generally involve
substituting a clock module, substituting better sounding opamps in the
outpout circuits, and upgrading the output capacitors to BlackGates. The
owners swear by them. I haven't heard them, or a before and after
comparison. Perhaps after my five year SONY warranty runs out I'll consider
it.

And I think it is many of these that he (and I) have concern about. It
takes knowledge and technical skill (and equipment) to do this
responsibly. Many tweakers simply swap stuff based on reputation,
hearsay or whim and convince themselves that it "sounds better." They
often reach that conclusion without measurements or A/B comparison.

My retort was to his second point about whether anyone could improve
on a responsible manufacturer's design and I contend that they can in
some cases. As for the question of whether most done by the average
hobbyist are really improvements, I, too, have my doubts.

Kal

"Kalman Rubinson" wrote in message
news:EoRUb.107438$U%5.553285@attbi_s03...
On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 04:21:59 GMT, chung wrote:

Can you provide some examples of worthwhile mods?

Nothing recent since I have not done any or much DIY in the last 10
years. However, I can recall one example.

In the old AA DITB, all the chips, digital and analog, were fed with
+/-5V. The chip mfrs spec sheets for the output opamps showed a
substantial rise in THD with such a reduced PS voltage, especially
since the DITB output at 0dB is +/-2V. Changing the Vregs so that the
available voltages were +/-5V and +/-12V and fed to the appropriate
pins, I was able to realize and measure a significant reduction in THD
on the analog outputs. I also added larger output caps and heatsinks
on all the chips. (Of course, they would have gotten even warmer at
the higher PS voltage had they not been heatsinked.)

I think that AA's decision to use the same +/-5V supplies for
everything was based on (1) reduced parts inventory and (2) an earlier
choice for the analog opamps. Nonetheless, the results were an
improvement compared to a stock DITB.

Kal


Another example:

I have two Marcoff PPA-2 battery powered headamps (remember those...Class A
or B in the mags and approved by the Audio Critic). One of them is
completely stock. The other has a mod that was widely popularized at the
time....potting the circuits in wax, and adding larger Wondercaps in the
output stages. As good as the PPA-2 was in its original state, the modded
unit is substantially better...more open and more dynamic...simply "real-er"
sounding (yep, there's that word again).

Harry

Kalman Rubinson wrote:
On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 04:21:59 GMT, chung wrote:

Can you provide some examples of worthwhile mods?

Nothing recent since I have not done any or much DIY in the last 10
years. However, I can recall one example.

In the old AA DITB, all the chips, digital and analog, were fed with
+/-5V. The chip mfrs spec sheets for the output opamps showed a
substantial rise in THD with such a reduced PS voltage, especially
since the DITB output at 0dB is +/-2V. Changing the Vregs so that the
available voltages were +/-5V and +/-12V and fed to the appropriate
pins, I was able to realize and measure a significant reduction in THD
on the analog outputs. I also added larger output caps and heatsinks
on all the chips. (Of course, they would have gotten even warmer at
the higher PS voltage had they not been heatsinked.)

I think that AA's decision to use the same +/-5V supplies for
everything was based on (1) reduced parts inventory and (2) an earlier
choice for the analog opamps. Nonetheless, the results were an
improvement compared to a stock DITB.

Kal


What's an AA DITB?

Harry Lavo wrote:

"Kalman Rubinson" wrote in message
news:EoRUb.107438$U%5.553285@attbi_s03...
On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 04:21:59 GMT, chung wrote:

Can you provide some examples of worthwhile mods?

Nothing recent since I have not done any or much DIY in the last 10
years. However, I can recall one example.

In the old AA DITB, all the chips, digital and analog, were fed with
+/-5V. The chip mfrs spec sheets for the output opamps showed a
substantial rise in THD with such a reduced PS voltage, especially
since the DITB output at 0dB is +/-2V. Changing the Vregs so that the
available voltages were +/-5V and +/-12V and fed to the appropriate
pins, I was able to realize and measure a significant reduction in THD
on the analog outputs. I also added larger output caps and heatsinks
on all the chips. (Of course, they would have gotten even warmer at
the higher PS voltage had they not been heatsinked.)

I think that AA's decision to use the same +/-5V supplies for
everything was based on (1) reduced parts inventory and (2) an earlier
choice for the analog opamps. Nonetheless, the results were an
improvement compared to a stock DITB.

Kal


To Chung's original question.

The mod's being done on SACD and DVD-A players generally involve
substituting a clock module, substituting better sounding opamps in the
outpout circuits, and upgrading the output capacitors to BlackGates. The
owners swear by them. I haven't heard them, or a before and after
comparison. Perhaps after my five year SONY warranty runs out I'll consider
it.

Harry

The original question was whether there are any examples of worthwhile
mods, as far as Kal knows. I know what modders have been doing.

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 00:06:57 GMT, "Harry Lavo"
wrote:

As good as the PPA-2 was in its original state,.........

In its original state, it is a ripoff of the original Leach design.
Leach improved on it, too.

Kal

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 00:16:23 GMT, chung wrote:

What's an AA DITB?

Audio Alchemy DAC-in-the-Box. It's a tidy and inexpensive DAC.
I also adapted one for battery-operated portable use with a HeadRoom
amp.

Kal

chung wrote:
Kalman Rubinson wrote:
On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 04:21:59 GMT, chung wrote:

Can you provide some examples of worthwhile mods?

Nothing recent since I have not done any or much DIY in the last 10
years. However, I can recall one example.

In the old AA DITB, all the chips, digital and analog, were fed with
+/-5V. The chip mfrs spec sheets for the output opamps showed a
substantial rise in THD with such a reduced PS voltage, especially
since the DITB output at 0dB is +/-2V. Changing the Vregs so that the
available voltages were +/-5V and +/-12V and fed to the appropriate
pins, I was able to realize and measure a significant reduction in THD
on the analog outputs. I also added larger output caps and heatsinks
on all the chips. (Of course, they would have gotten even warmer at
the higher PS voltage had they not been heatsinked.)

I think that AA's decision to use the same +/-5V supplies for
everything was based on (1) reduced parts inventory and (2) an earlier
choice for the analog opamps. Nonetheless, the results were an
improvement compared to a stock DITB.

Kal


What's an AA DITB?

Audio Alchemy DAC-in-a-Box, IIRC. One of the more talked-about
outboard DACs, some years ago.



--

-S.

"They've got God on their side. All we've got is science and reason."
-- Dawn Hulsey, Talent Director

"Kalman Rubinson" wrote in message
...
On 6 Feb 2004 22:18:47 GMT, "Harry Lavo" wrote:

To Chung's original question.

The mod's being done on SACD and DVD-A players generally involve
substituting a clock module, substituting better sounding opamps in the
outpout circuits, and upgrading the output capacitors to BlackGates. The
owners swear by them. I haven't heard them, or a before and after
comparison. Perhaps after my five year SONY warranty runs out I'll
consider
it.

And I think it is many of these that he (and I) have concern about. It
takes knowledge and technical skill (and equipment) to do this
responsibly. Many tweakers simply swap stuff based on reputation,
hearsay or whim and convince themselves that it "sounds better." They
often reach that conclusion without measurements or A/B comparison.

My retort was to his second point about whether anyone could improve
on a responsible manufacturer's design and I contend that they can in
some cases.

I've needed out of warranty repair many times in my 50 years involvement
with this hobby, often the manufacturer is no longer in business (e.g..GAS
Ampzilla) or is no longer concerned with their item (e.g.. Tandberg 10XD).
For someone such as myself who can't even use a soldering iron correctly,
there are but two ways to go, either a skilled technician assuming
schematics are available or the high-end repair outfits. Either way you
don't end up having anything like "original parts" in your equipment. The
ordinary repair engineers scoff at all this high end business and are merely
concerned with performing a repair that holds, not wanting to see your piece
back in their hands during their warranty period. The high-end repair folks
nearly always need to perform "upgrades" sometimes warranted, for either
reliability and/or sound concerns. If the manufacturer is still in business
and handles your item there are always upgrades and superior non-original
parts required and/or available. I've taken all these routes and the
equipment always sounds the *same*, of course A/B comparisons with the
original is not an option. OTOH friends report their equipment sounds
better. Anyone familiar with the popular (even by TAS standards) Van Alstine
mod of the Audio Research SP-3-A1? I did it (sounded no better). Even ARC
until this very day offers mods for this piece and the original electrolytic
capacitors
are no available should they require replacement.
http://www.audioresearch.com/SP3-update.html