hello...

I'm wondering.... what are your opinion on Michell Reference Hydraulic
turntable???
Hom much do you think i'ts worth???

I'm asking this because I have a chance to get my hands on one but I'm not
so shure about it...
it look fabulous but does it sound so?

Everything is in original state... I belive that only the stylus has been
changed...
The previous owner sad that it didn't play often... and he is the first
owner.... (it has all the papers.... manual and all...)

so... what are your opinions, and how much do you think it's worth??

here is a web link if someone is interested

http://www.michell-engineering.co.uk...e_gallery.html


THNX

Greetings from Croatia

Matko

From: "Matko"
Date: 5/20/2004 7:13 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

hello...

I'm wondering.... what are your opinion on Michell Reference Hydraulic
turntable???
Hom much do you think i'ts worth???

I'm asking this because I have a chance to get my hands on one but I'm not
so shure about it...
it look fabulous but does it sound so?

Everything is in original state... I belive that only the stylus has been
changed...
The previous owner sad that it didn't play often... and he is the first
owner.... (it has all the papers.... manual and all...)

so... what are your opinions, and how much do you think it's worth??

here is a web link if someone is interested

http://www.michell-engineering.co.uk...e_gallery.html


THNX

Greetings from Croatia

Matko













I haven't listened to this one but Michell certainly has a rich history of
excellent sounding tables. It *probably* does sound good.

I haven't listened to this one but Michell certainly has a rich history of
excellent sounding tables. It *probably* does sound good.

yes.. but how much do you think it's worth???

1500 $ 2000$ ????????????????????

"Matko" wrote:



hello...

I'm wondering.... what are your opinion on Michell Reference Hydraulic
turntable???
Hom much do you think i'ts worth???

I'm asking this because I have a chance to get my hands on one but I'm not
so shure about it...
it look fabulous but does it sound so?

Everything is in original state... I belive that only the stylus has been
changed...
The previous owner sad that it didn't play often... and he is the first
owner.... (it has all the papers.... manual and all...)

so... what are your opinions, and how much do you think it's worth??

here is a web link if someone is interested

http://www.michell-engineering.co.uk...e_gallery.html


THNX

Just for fun, I checked Orion Blue Books.

According to Orion:

The table was made from 1977 - 1982

The retail used value is $230 (US)
Original MSRP was $750
-------
I thought maybe these amounts were typos, so I checked the price on the same
table without the arm: $500

Looks like an awful lot of table (appearance wise) for $750 brand new.

Any idea how much the guy paid for it? It would certainly help determining how
much it might be worth now. Would also clear up my question as to whether
Orion's quoted figures are typographical errors.

Sorry I can't be of more help...

Jeff

P.S. According to the website you posted, the speed of the table was
controlled by a paddle passing through a "silicone bath".
Before buying the table, I would make sure you have a source for the fluid used
(of the same viscosity) in the "silicone bath", or you won't be able to control
the speed accurately (at least not in the intended manner). Maybe Michell
still sells the stuff.

Jeff

Matko said:

hello...

I'm wondering.... what are your opinion on Michell Reference Hydraulic
turntable???
Hom much do you think i'ts worth???

I just bought a fully restored Scott LK-48 from a guy who deals vintage audio.
That's the 'table he uses at home. He loves it, and he has excellent taste in
equipment.

I have no idea what it's worth, though.

Boon

From: "Matko"
Date: 5/20/2004 3:10 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:



I haven't listened to this one but Michell certainly has a rich history of
excellent sounding tables. It *probably* does sound good.

yes.. but how much do you think it's worth???

1500 $ 2000$ ????????????????????










No! You are into Gyrodec money there. If performance is the only issue that is
*probably* way too much. I don't know if that table is a collectable or not so
I am not going to say it is an unfair price.

Just for fun, I checked Orion Blue Books.

According to Orion:

The table was made from 1977 - 1982

The retail used value is $230 (US)
Original MSRP was $750
-------
I thought maybe these amounts were typos, so I checked the price on the
same
table without the arm: $500

Looks like an awful lot of table (appearance wise) for $750 brand new.

yes.. It is al LOT of table.. and it looks wavesome... BTW it is the
turntable from A Clockwork Orange...


Any idea how much the guy paid for it? It would certainly help
determining how
much it might be worth now. Would also clear up my question as to whether
Orion's quoted figures are typographical errors.


the guy's father bought it and impotrted it in croatia.. he payed it 1000 UK
pounds. it was bought in germany. i think it was somwhere around 1980.... at
least the guy sad so...
I found it on ebay.. some time ago... and it was sold for 987 uk Pounds....
I found more of it.. and price was around 500 UK pounds...

yes... and the silicone stuff is still availiable.

greetz..

Matko

"Matko" wrote in message ...
hello...

I'm wondering.... what are your opinion on Michell Reference Hydraulic
turntable???
Hom much do you think i'ts worth???

Hello:

I used to own one of the these - sold it about 5-6 years ago, somebody
paid about $500 for it. It was the last version of the Hydraulic
reference.


I'm asking this because I have a chance to get my hands on one but I'm not
so shure about it...
it look fabulous but does it sound so?
Everything is in original state... I belive that only the stylus has been
changed...
The previous owner sad that it didn't play often... and he is the first
owner.... (it has all the papers.... manual and all...)


Is it a good sounding table? sure, depending on the arm: often early
unipivot designs, which are good but very sensitive to the cartridge
type and LP condition. But these old Michel or Transcriptors TT's
aren't bought because they are the best or even good deals... its
because there is no other table even close to what these sell with as
cool of a design that actually sounds as good as these do!

How much is it worth? that depends on what people are willing to pay
for the "look" ... start low and ante up until you reach a deal... If
you buy it, DEMAND that the seller empty the fluid resevoir before its
shipped. If that stuffs spills it will take hours to clean it up.
Soap and water only, many cleaning solutions can desolve the surface
layer of the acrylic base so be careful.

Jordan

Matko wrote:
hello...

I'm wondering.... what are your opinion on Michell Reference Hydraulic
turntable???

It seems to include really bad basic engineering. Platter motors generally
are more prone to speed variations, both short term and long term, when they
are placed under a heavier load. Speed control by means of adding drag to
the motor is the exact wrong way to go. AFAIK, electronic speed control was
widely implemented when this product was new, and is very much the preferred
way to go.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ...
Matko wrote:
hello...

I'm wondering.... what are your opinion on Michell Reference Hydraulic
turntable???

It seems to include really bad basic engineering. Platter motors generally
are more prone to speed variations, both short term and long term, when they
are placed under a heavier load. Speed control by means of adding drag to
the motor is the exact wrong way to go. AFAIK, electronic speed control was
widely implemented when this product was new, and is very much the preferred
way to go.

Actually, the motor is not under the platter on these models but in a
pulley system almost the same as a VPI (non-suspended). I aggree
though about the speed control. I'm only guessing but I think the
viscous solution was also implemented for a dampening effect as the
pan was direct coupled to the bearing mechanism. I can't speculate as
to its properties with motion and consistency (drag)...

J-

dourmaj wrote:
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
Matko wrote:
hello...

I'm wondering.... what are your opinion on Michell Reference
Hydraulic turntable???

It seems to include really bad basic engineering. Platter motors
generally are more prone to speed variations, both short term and
long term, when they are placed under a heavier load. Speed control
by means of adding drag to the motor is the exact wrong way to go.
AFAIK, electronic speed control was widely implemented when this
product was new, and is very much the preferred way to go.

Actually, the motor is not under the platter on these models

I never said it was.

but in a pulley system almost the same as a VPI (non-suspended).

Fine.

I aggree though about the speed control. I'm only guessing but I think
the
viscous solution was also implemented for a dampening effect as the
pan was direct coupled to the bearing mechanism.

If that's the case, the designer REALLY didn't know what he was doing. Why
go out of the way to cause speed variations and then try to dampen them?

I can't speculate as to its properties with motion and consistency
(drag)...

The basic means of speed control was to cause drag. This probably induced
greater short and long term variations than it could possibly dampen out.

It seems to include really bad basic engineering. Platter motors
generally are more prone to speed variations, both short term and
long term, when they are placed under a heavier load.

Actually, the motor is not under the platter on these models

I never said it was.

I guess I miss-interpreted "under a heavier load" I thought you were
implying direct drive mechanisms... sorry about that...

I aggree though about the speed control. I'm only guessing but I think
the viscous solution was also implemented for a dampening effect as the
pan was direct coupled to the bearing mechanism.

If that's the case, the designer REALLY didn't know what he was doing. Why
go out of the way to cause speed variations and then try to dampen them?

Thats quite a supposition since these tables are "vintage" tables
dating back to the 60's decade. Not to say there wasn't any 'cutting
edge' table from that era... but I think the "REALLY" bit is a little
armchair quarterbacking... I would presume that if any of these
designers knew what they know now, back then, there would have been
some very different tables produced... so let it be...

I think they knew what they were doing, made a lot of mistakes,
enjoyed it, made some money (or not) and evolved...

I can't speculate as to its properties with motion and consistency
(drag)...

The basic means of speed control was to cause drag. This probably induced
greater short and long term variations than it could possibly dampen out.

Not the point I was making... obviously the "means of speed control
was to cause drag" however, what I can't speculate on however unlikely
is how stable the solution was under centrifugal forces - i/e was the
table counting on a solution essestially static or not for its "drag."
Regardless, these are moot engineering questions. The suggestion was
does this very very viscous solution dampen any inherent vibration in
the table - and even if it doesn't, which it probably didn't, was that
a selling point? which I think it was.. even if it did nothing at
all... you know how it goes... :-)

This is becomming a little off topic now... the table is very cool...
spins vinyl well and with a good tonearm cartidge setup sounds
alright... but no bargin in lieu of all the budjet/ and used
"high-end" tables available for much less which probably can offer
noticeable impovments in sound quality for less money (compared to
what? I don't know....)

Jordan