On 24 Feb 2005 21:11:12 -0800, "WillStG" wrote:

Bob Cain wrote:
Will you ever be comfortable with choices others make for
themselves rather than those you make for them? If there is
one single thing you are totally consistent about or one
single thread that underlies most all of your opinions, it
is that.

Maybe you think suicide is a wonderful "Choice" Bob, and I will
even cede there may be circumstances where is is not a self centered
and stupidly destructive/self destructive act. But not in this case,
not in this circumstance, and that some here find Thompson's suicide
an example worthy of celebration, even admiration turns my stomuch.


Can you stop putting words in people's mouths? Well we all know the
answer to that one I guess... I didn't read a single post that could
be construed as a celebration the man's death. Your warped world view
would be no problem if you could just keep from inflicting in on
everyone else.

Al

hank alrich wrote:
WillStG wrote:

But obviously Bob, you already drank the koolaid.

Many of the folks I've known who took their own life did so because
they
couldn't survive psychologically after their experiences in Viet Nam,
and the way we treat them around Agent Orange and such has been so
thoughtful and considerate. Now we see our noble leader wanting to
deprive Desert Storm vets of their rightful settlement. Somebody is
drinking the koolaid, but it ain't Bob Cain. Somebody has declared
themself to be the perfect judge of their fellow humans, but it ain't
Bob Cain.

I am here to say the claim that suicide is "victimless" is
bull****. I have seen one suicide become three suicides in a family, I
have see the grief and guilt of the survivors turn into freebase drug
addiction, and that into the Meth drug addiction of the next
generation, and that into haze induced child abuse. And that has ****
all to do with your punching bag, zippo-lighter-fluid-pawn-shop-trick
of blaming Vietnam and President Bush either.

It is a fact that the tragedy of suicide can be far reaching in
it's consequences, however unintended. But you wanna judge *me* for
being ****ed off that a man admired by many sets such a bad example,
killing himself for what by all accounts is the most trivial of
reasons? Fine! I can live with that. But I'm not the one who is
desensitized to the tragedy here, it is those who cannot yet even bring
themselves to admit that this *WAS* a tragedy that are desensitized,
and in denial.

To give the man props and kudos for offing himself just makes me
wanna puke.

Will Miho
NY Music and TV Audio Guy
Staff A1 / Fox News / M-AES
"I seen your Zippo lighter fluid pawn shop tricks,
down on methadone alley baby, hitting the bricks..." - Will Miho

WillStG wrote:
Bob Cain wrote:

Will you ever be comfortable with choices others make for
themselves rather than those you make for them? If there is
one single thing you are totally consistent about or one
single thread that underlies most all of your opinions, it
is that.


Maybe you think suicide is a wonderful "Choice" Bob,

Once again, words I've not spoken placed in my mouth. Find
where I said wonderful. Between the lines was "pragmatic"
but certainly not "wonderful."

and I will
even cede there may be circumstances where is is not a self centered
and stupidly destructive/self destructive act. But not in this case,
not in this circumstance, and that some here find Thompson's suicide
an example worthy of celebration, even admiration turns my stomuch.

You are not pro-choice, then. I am.


But obviously Bob, you already drank the koolaid.

Long ago in a far away place. You got one thing right at
least; that experience totally changed my internal
relationship to my own mortality. I've not feared death in
the 35 years since that first time and definitely will make
the choice should it become appropriate if I still have the
choice.

If and when the quality of my remaining days is obviously
insufficient to justify experiencing them, I'm outta here;
only I, or a chosen surrogate, will be the judge of when
that imbalance obtains. All who know me well are fully
aware of that and have been instructed to take it with a
grain of salt if and when it occurs. I see no reason to be
passive about the inescapable. So, yes, I do find something
to admire in (Dr.) Hunter S. Thompson's exit.

FWIW, at this time all of that last paragraph remains in the
domain of the hypothetical.

(For all the thought and emotional energy I've put into
considering this issue, I'll probably fall over from cardiac
arrest some day in the distant future with no awareness it
is happening. :-)


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

So you're saying he was a crazy selfish *******?
Didn't everyone know that?
How bout the time he threw Bill Murry, who was tied to a lawn chair, in the
swimming pool.
Still, one would have thought he might have been more creative, instead of
just doing n bad imitation of Hemingway.

Tom




"WillStG" wrote in message
oups.com...

another viewer wrote:
no dear, the cowardly way to go out is terminally ill, plugged up to
every machine imaginable and wasting away time and money when the
inevitable is present.

Strawman. He was not terminally ill. The news accounts report he
had been saying for the last 2 years he "wanted to die before it
stopped being fun." He was afraid of growing old. And he shot himself
in the head with a 6 year old in the house, there is no excuse for
that.

planning and saying "i love you all, here is why this is happening
and
goodbye, the inevitable is going to happen on my terms" takes
fortitude
most people can't imagine.

That's not what happened either. And there is a big difference
between not being kept alive artificially and shooting yourself in the
head. The facts of Thompsosn's own words suggest he simply feared old
age, that he in fact succumbed to his inner fears. But I am fully
aware that some of you prefer to maintain a heroic mythology for people
you would idolize, even when they act in a manner that is blatantly and
obviously unworthy of such admiration.

But such is the nature of "True Believers".

Will Miho
NY Music and TV Audio Guy
Staff Audio / Fox News / M-AES
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

Ricky Hunt wrote:
"WillStG" wrote in message
ups.com...

A lot of people live their lives with a greater burden - and much
greater courage - than Hunter Thompson's showed by his suicide. In my
book it is a selfish, chicken **** and cowardly way he choose to go
out.



I have to say in the bigger picture I think it will hurt the issue of right
to die with dignity. But he really didn't have any other (legal) options.


Suicide is against the law
in fact , in Russia, the punishment for suicide is death
George

WillStG wrote:
hank alrich wrote:
WillStG wrote:


I am here to say the claim that suicide is "victimless" is
bull****.

To give the man props and kudos for offing himself just makes me
wanna puke.


Strange coming from the Japanesse culture of honorable suicides.

"and i respect a man who goes to where he wants to be,
even if he wants to be dead"
vic chesnut

(that might be a paraphrase..)

Strange coming from the Japanesse culture of honorable suicides.

Ricky Hunt wrote:
"hank alrich" wrote in message
. ..

Your book does not yet have in it its own final pages. Talk the talk
when you've walked the walk. How much judgement is a good Christian
supposed to bring to bear on his fellow humans? Have some pages fallen
from your Book?



That's going to be the sad reckoning. Though it won't happen to most of them
a horrible exit awaits at least a few of those people who have championed
"right to life" at all costs no matter how much it extends the suffering.
God has a funny way of smacking us in our self-righteous mouths when we've
judged other's choices. He often puts us in that same position.

http://www.johndear.org/articles/Pharisee%20Nation.htm

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 13:02:15 GMT, George Gleason
wrote:

Ricky Hunt wrote:
"WillStG" wrote in message
ups.com...

A lot of people live their lives with a greater burden - and much
greater courage - than Hunter Thompson's showed by his suicide. In my
book it is a selfish, chicken **** and cowardly way he choose to go
out.



I have to say in the bigger picture I think it will hurt the issue of right
to die with dignity. But he really didn't have any other (legal) options.


Suicide is against the law
in fact , in Russia, the punishment for suicide is death
George

One of those rare cases where the reward and the punishment are the
same thing...

Al

play_on wrote:

George Gleason wrote:

Suicide is against the law
in fact , in Russia, the punishment for suicide is death
George

One of those rare cases where the reward and the punishment are the
same thing...

Imagine, busted for grass, and having to smoke _more_. Damn. That'll
teach 'em.

--
ha

Bob Cain wrote:
WillStG wrote:

and I will
even cede there may be circumstances where is is not a self centered
and stupidly destructive/self destructive act. But not in this case,
not in this circumstance, and that some here find Thompson's suicide
an example worthy of celebration, even admiration turns my stomuch.

You are not pro-choice, then. I am.

I think that's an unfair conclusion.

Respecting someone's right to make choices for themselves does not
mean you have to respect the choice they make. It does not mean
that all possible choices have to become socially acceptable.

It is perfectly reasonable to say that you respect that nobody
can make a certain choice but the individual and still maintain
the opinion that certain options are stupid and wrong. (And doing
so doesn't have to mean that you don't respect the person, either.)

- Logan

Logan Shaw wrote:

You are not pro-choice, then. I am.


I think that's an unfair conclusion.

Respecting someone's right to make choices for themselves does not
mean you have to respect the choice they make.

Agreed, but you don't have to publicly dis' it either.

It does not mean
that all possible choices have to become socially acceptable.

Within the limits of negatively impacting other people's
rights and quality of life, I think anything should be
socially acceptable. If you've read his son's comments on
it today it is pretty clear that what HST did was acceptable
to him and that he had great affection and respect for his
dad before and after. There actually seemed to be some
admiration there in that he saw his father maintaining
control of his own life right down to how it would end.

That's why I think this case is different than many. It
can, of course, be a terribly selfish act if it is known
that it will be harmful to others but I think he had done
the footwork to minimize or eliminate that.

It is perfectly reasonable to say that you respect that nobody
can make a certain choice but the individual and still maintain
the opinion that certain options are stupid and wrong. (And doing
so doesn't have to mean that you don't respect the person, either.)

Agreed again, and with the same caveat.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

Wonder if they could convert us into styli for turntable cartridges.
We could spend eternity spinning out songs from '70s audiophile
recordings. A just end.


On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 22:01:45 -0800, "Jonny Durango"
wrote:

This might change your mind about that one....this is how I'm going out

www.lifegem.com

almost makes me look forward to the afterlife =)

--

Jonny Durango

"Patrick was a saint. I ain't."

http://www.jdurango.com



"Animix" wrote in message
...
All I know is that I'm putting a provision in my will to be shot out a
cannon when I die. Cremation *prior to* not really necessary.

DJ

"John" wrote in message
...
per CNN online

"Journalist Hunter S. Thompson did not take his life "in a moment of
haste or anger or despondency" and probably planned his suicide well in
advance because of his declining health, the family's spokesman said
Wednesday."

the full article makes complete sense and fits him perfectly. It was
going to be done his way, on his terms.

Much respect. I hope they get the cannon.
--
Digital Services Recording Studios
http://www.digisrvs.com





Willie K. Yee, M.D. http://users.bestweb.net/~wkyee
Developer of Problem Knowledge Couplers for Psychiatry http://www.pkc.com
Webmaster and Guitarist for the Big Blue Big Band http://www.bigbluebigband.org