Joseph Oberlander wrote:



Lionel wrote:

I don't see above any comdemnation of the Jewish religious extremist
and their influence on Israelian government. Those extremists are made
in the same wood than wahhabists but the occidental "politically
correct" forbids to make such comparison.


I don't see very many Hassidic Jews strapping on bombs and blowing
up groups of Palestineans. That's the difference.

http://www.rabin.org/site/en/rabin.asp?pi=7

It's terribly simple. There are people who want Israel to be a smoking
crater and would gladly nuke it to serve their goals - if they had the
ability. They are armed and use bombs to blow up civilians using
terror tactics.

Where does it make sense to do anything other than put a bullet in
their head? These are bad people that made their choice to die
by taking out people with bombs strapped to thier bodies. I see
no problem in killing them before they get to their intended target.

I only read above that you confirm to be agree with the death sentence
that Israel applied to a Palestinian leader.


Except...

Yassin was NOT a political leader. He was a terrorist leader just
like BinLaden is.

I'm not agree, Bin Laden, Yassin... are political leaders as well as
Hitler was a political leader.
If we dont want to deal with such political leaders we should take care
that our government, industrial leaders... don't create them.

Bruce J. Richman wrote:

Arny Krueger wrote:



Bruce J. Richman wrote:

Lionel wrote:



Bruce J. Richman wrote:


There is no such English word as manicheist so the assumptions you
have about my view of the conflict are unknown, but probably wrong.

1 entry found for manicheist. It's a good day for you.

manicheist
\Man"i*che*ist\, n. [Cf. F. manich['e]iste.] Manich[ae]an.

Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA,
Inc.

I was aware of that entry. However, note that there was no
definition given for the word, so it's meaning is not known.

Perhaps to you.


Therefore, it's use is sort of pointless.

Manicheanism is a dualistic religion that is loosely related to Buddhism.


Whatever. Its' irrelevant to this thread.

This above remember me some of the funny and caricatural exchanges you
have had recently with Sander deWaal. :-)

"The most striking principle of Manichee theology is its dualism. The
universe is a battlefield for control between an evil material god and a
good spiritual god. Christians recognized the evil god in Satan but, of
course, could not accept the idea that Satan had as much power as
Jehovah, and held that Satan, unlike God, is a created being. The term
Manichaeistic is often used to describe any religion with a similar
concept of struggle between good and evil."

From: (Bruce J. Richman)

manicheist
\Man"i*che*ist\, n. [Cf. F. manich['e]iste.] Manich[ae]an.

I was aware of that entry. However, note that there was no definition given
for the word, so it's meaning is not known.

Doesn't it mean someone from Manchester?

Lionel wrote:

Joseph Oberlander wrote:



Lionel wrote:

I don't see above any comdemnation of the Jewish religious extremist
and their influence on Israelian government. Those extremists are
made in the same wood than wahhabists but the occidental "politically
correct" forbids to make such comparison.



I don't see very many Hassidic Jews strapping on bombs and blowing
up groups of Palestineans. That's the difference.

http://www.rabin.org/site/en/rabin.asp?pi=7

Isolated incidents are different than suicide bombers and you
know it. There's an entire level of violence that virtually
every Jewish extremist won't cross. There are exceptions, but
they are exactly that.

OTOH, Palestinean terrorists are blowing themselves up every few days.

Yassin was NOT a political leader. He was a terrorist leader just
like BinLaden is.

I'm not agree, Bin Laden, Yassin... are political leaders as well as
Hitler was a political leader.

He wasn't elected. He was a crazy madman who planned and instructed
others in how to use terrorism against others.

Joseph Oberlander a écrit :
Lionel wrote:

Joseph Oberlander wrote:



Lionel wrote:

I don't see above any comdemnation of the Jewish religious extremist
and their influence on Israelian government. Those extremists are
made in the same wood than wahhabists but the occidental
"politically correct" forbids to make such comparison.




I don't see very many Hassidic Jews strapping on bombs and blowing
up groups of Palestineans. That's the difference.


http://www.rabin.org/site/en/rabin.asp?pi=7


Isolated incidents are different than suicide bombers and you
know it. There's an entire level of violence that virtually
every Jewish extremist won't cross. There are exceptions, but
they are exactly that.

This is your opinion I understand it. I not really as confident I think
it's just a question of circumstances.


OTOH, Palestinean terrorists are blowing themselves up every few days.

Yassin was NOT a political leader. He was a terrorist leader just
like BinLaden is.


I'm not agree, Bin Laden, Yassin... are political leaders as well as
Hitler was a political leader.


He wasn't elected. He was a crazy madman who planned and instructed
others in how to use terrorism against others.

I agree because we just have a minor terminology problem : before being
elected a "political leader" is already a "political leader".

Chapuis Lionel wrote:

Isolated incidents are different than suicide bombers and you
know it. There's an entire level of violence that virtually
every Jewish extremist won't cross. There are exceptions, but
they are exactly that.


This is your opinion I understand it. I not really as confident I think
it's just a question of circumstances.

Ah. According to NON CHRISTIAN ethics, there is no such thing as
thought equaling sin. Only your actions determine if you sin
or not.

This applies to Islam as well as Judaism - they can think and vent
and yell all they want - but it's meaningless until they DO cross
that line.(not a good thing to yell and such, but certainly no
crime)

Understanding where they are coming from helps a lot to understand.

Joseph Oberlander said:

I'm not agree, Bin Laden, Yassin... are political leaders as well as
Hitler was a political leader.

He wasn't elected. He was a crazy madman who planned and instructed
others in how to use terrorism against others.

Oh, but Hitler *was* elected. Read up on your history!

--
Sander deWaal
Vacuum Audio Consultancy

Sander deWaal wrote:

Joseph Oberlander said:


I'm not agree, Bin Laden, Yassin... are political leaders as well as
Hitler was a political leader.


He wasn't elected. He was a crazy madman who planned and instructed
others in how to use terrorism against others.


Oh, but Hitler *was* elected. Read up on your history!

I was talking about Yassin, since that was the original problem.
He can't possibly be a "political leader" since he wasn't
in a position of ANY political power.

From: Sander deWaal

Well said, George.
One wonders what Arab countries would be like when all the energy that
is put into hatred was put to build up their countries, their economy
and their personal lives.

First they would have to set up democratic governments and a capitalistic
system.

Freedom and capitalism tend to breed peace.

From: Lionel

I'm not agree, Bin Laden, Yassin... are political leaders as well as
Hitler was a political leader.

Hitler was elected in Germany. Yassin and Bin Laden have not been elected to
anything. Theya re self appointed executioners targeting innocents.

If we dont want to deal with such political leaders we should take care
that our government, industrial leaders... don't create them.


We don't create them, they choose to disregard human life in order to advance
their own private, insane view of the world.

From: Lionel

Sorry to insist but you don't help me to understand. For example you
don't explain why since the begining of the second intifada there's
nearly 2 times more Paslestinian killed compared to Israelian...
This sordid arithmetic let me bewildered.

Because the Israeli's are better shots.

"Lionel" wrote in message
...
Bruce J. Richman wrote:

Lionel wrote:



Bruce J. Richman wrote:

Lionel wrote:



Mikermckelvy wrote:



How about that? We agree on something.

Hey Bruce did I miss something ?









We agree that it is unfair and illogical to equate Hamas' targeted
suicide
bombings of civilians (e.g. women, ;children, school buses,
restaurants,

etc.)

with Israel's targeted killings of known Hamas military leaders and

terrorists.

Sorry to insist but you don't help me to understand. For example you
don't explain why since the begining of the second intifada there's
nearly 2 times more Paslestinian killed compared to Israelian...
This sordid arithmetic let me bewildered.









Perhaps you would be less bewildered if you considered the following:

(1) When a war against terrorists is being fought, it is not unusual or
unreasonable to expect collateral damage.

(2) Number of casualties does not justify arguments over who is right
and who
is wrong - especially in this case, or for that matter, in many other
wars of
self-defense.

(3) Less Israeli casualties then Palestinian casualties is a result of
several
factors - including the ability of the Israeli military to prevent
numerous
Palestinian bombers from carrying out their attacks. This fact has been
well
documented in many newspaper reports.
In fact, more than a few Palestinian bombers have (a) blown themselves
up prior
to encountering Israeli targets, and (b) killed Palestinians as well as
Israelis during their many attacks at restaurants and elsewhere.

(c) cibled assassinations aren't well cibled most of the time.

The following is out of subject because I never comment about
Palestinian cause, I never wrote that Palestinian are right and
Israelian wrong.

You seem to imply it.

Are you supposing that I am pro-palestinian only because I think that
U.N must condemn Yassin assassination ?

No, no, that simply makes you stupid.

I'm afraid that, concerning this
problem, your vision of the world is too much manicheist, Bruce. Be
careful, passion is the enemy of the lucidity.

So is Communism.

(4) Ask yourself who has initiated several wars in the Middle East since
Israel's creation in 1948. Hint - it wasn't Israel.

(5) As George Middius pointed out, the destruction of Israel and
occupation of
all - not some - of its land has been the goal of most Palestinians
since 1948.

(6) You might also want to consider that prior to 1948, Palestinians had
a
homeland. It was called Jordan (or Trans-Jordan). Perhaps you can
explain for
me why Jordan does not want to help solve this problem by offering the
Palestinians the "right of return" :



Bruce J. Richman