"notbob" wrote

The problem is finding vacuum tubes. No one makes
the same quality tubes I used to pay $40 for a matched
pair of power tubes.

Have you been living in a cave for the last 30 years?
Consumer have plenty of choices for high quality
new vacuum tubes.

That matched set of new old-stock (NOS) tubes now
costs $400 ...if you can find them!

Yea, so? You can spend that much for new, too.
Consumers have plenty of choices and price ranges
to choose from.

Because of this, the old high end tube amps like
Marantz, Fisher, and MacIntosh can now be had for
peanuts.

Not so. There are many considerations in establishing
the value of classic equipment. Many of the classic
vacuum tube amps (50's, 60's and early 70's) have
limited technical capability in reproducing digital
bandwidth and dynamics... modern tube amps
generally do not have these limitations.

As you point out, there are fringe amp makers. They've
redesigned their products to use the inferior Chinese
and East European tubes.

Quack, quack, quack...

But, they've put absolutely insane prices on them.
$5-20K is typical. Screw that!

Quack, quack, quack...

I'll continue to use my circa '64 Fisher/JBL system as
long as I can.

Translation: You have no hearing acuity or no financial
means .

Powell wrote:


"notbob" wrote

The problem is finding vacuum tubes. No one makes
the same quality tubes I used to pay $40 for a matched
pair of power tubes.

Have you been living in a cave for the last 30 years?
Consumer have plenty of choices for high quality
new vacuum tubes.


Agreed. And also, a reasonable supply of NOS tubes such as Mullards, etc., if
one feels small preamplifier tubes of yesteryear are that important. As for
output tubes, modern tubes from companies like Svetlana and Ei are generally
considered to be quite reliable and decent sounding.



That matched set of new old-stock (NOS) tubes now
costs $400 ...if you can find them!

Yea, so? You can spend that much for new, too.
Consumers have plenty of choices and price ranges
to choose from.


For a reasonable idea of the broad spectrum of both NOS and new tubes
available, one can check out dealers like Upscale Audio in California, which
carries a very broad range of tubes at various price points. There are also
several other dealers who regularly advertise in Stereophile and on the web.
And of course, modern tubed equipment manufacturers such as conrad johnson,
Audio Research, VTL and others generally stock supplies of most tube types
needed for their products.



Because of this, the old high end tube amps like
Marantz, Fisher, and MacIntosh can now be had for
peanuts.

Not so. There are many considerations in establishing
the value of classic equipment. Many of the classic
vacuum tube amps (50's, 60's and early 70's) have
limited technical capability in reproducing digital
bandwidth and dynamics... modern tube amps
generally do not have these limitations.


And actually "old high end tubed amplifiers" from companies like McIntosh and
Marantz can *not* generally be had "for peanuts", especially when their age and
condition is factored in to the equation. A cursory glance at eBay and/or
Audiiogon will reveal that classic McIntosh and Marantz amplifiers (especially
the former) generally command quite high prices, relatively speaking. And try
and find a nice McIntosh FM tuner for anything remotely resembling that ot
yoiur garden variety SS tuner, and............. you usually won't. (And for
good reasons, soncially speaking). Even some of the relatively less expensive
Fisher receivers (when new), if in pristine condition, can command pretty
respectable prices compared to budget level SS equipment.


As you point out, there are fringe amp makers. They've
redesigned their products to use the inferior Chinese
and East European tubes.

Quack, quack, quack...


I'll second the quacking . Many users don't think that, for example,
Svetlana 6550C or EI KT-90 Type III output tubes are inferior to some of the
older GE or other historic brands at all. (Chinese output tubes, granted, are
not all that well received by many users).



But, they've put absolutely insane prices on them.
$5-20K is typical. Screw that!

Quack, quack, quack...


Decent tubed amplifiers can be obtained from companies like Conrad Johnson,
Audio Research, VTL, Cary, etc. can be had for a lot less than the price range
he's specified, especially if one does not need more than, say, 100
watts/channel.


I'll continue to use my circa '64 Fisher/JBL system as
long as I can.

Translation: You have no hearing acuity or no financial
means .













Bruce J. Richman

"Bruce J. Richman" wrote in message
...


I'll second the quacking . Many users don't think that, for example,
Svetlana 6550C or EI KT-90 Type III output tubes are inferior to some of
the
older GE or other historic brands at all. (Chinese output tubes, granted,
are
not all that well received by many users).


however, their KT66's are fantastic.




----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

Art wrote:

"Bruce J. Richman" wrote in message
...


I'll second the quacking . Many users don't think that, for example,
Svetlana 6550C or EI KT-90 Type III output tubes are inferior to some of
the
older GE or other historic brands at all. (Chinese output tubes, granted,
are
not all that well received by many users).


however, their KT66's are fantastic.




----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000
Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption
=---








Could be. I've used mainly Svetlanas and Ei output tubes, and for small
preamplifier tubes and those needed for my DAC (12AX7's), matched NOS Mullards
(which are a little expensive but last a long time) and military grade JAN's.





Bruce J. Richman

"Bruce J. Richman" wrote

Could be. I've used mainly Svetlanas and Ei output
tubes, and for small preamplifier tubes and those
needed for my DAC (12AX7's), matched NOS Mullards
(which are a little expensive but last a long time) and
military grade JAN's.

Richardson Electronics. Try the largest source
of guaranteed tubes (NOS & new) in the world.
http://catalog.rell.com

After reading Vacuum Tube Valley magazine’s
6DJ8 / 6922 shootout I purchased a few JAN
Philips 6922 tubes (best buy) for my pre-amp
and DAC. Up to that point I had been using
Mullard 6922. In total I've run these sets of
brands: (1) GE, (2) Dragon, (1) Yugoslavian,
(3) Sovtek, and (1) Mullard. I’ve not found any
*best* tube yet... but the Sovtek's are very good.

I'm not saying NOS is bad just much more iffy.
I've done comparisons of mail order tubes vs
best Gold Aero & RAM (sorted 3%) of 6DJ8 &
6922. The difference in noise and tonal signature
was audible. In the back of my mind I wonder if
the sonic signature of the JAN Philips (NOS) at
3% of all sorted would sound like the one I have...
but lacking the will to purchase a 3% JAN Philips
I guess I'll never know .

(Bruce J. Richman) said:

I'll second the quacking . Many users don't think that, for example,
Svetlana 6550C or EI KT-90 Type III output tubes are inferior to some of the
older GE or other historic brands at all. (Chinese output tubes, granted, are
not all that well received by many users).

The problem with many Chinese brand tubes is their reliability.
I've had many 6550s from Chinese descent that sounded wonderful, but
lasted very short in a standard application.
It is said their quality has gone upwards the last few years, but I've
never since tried any Chinese tubes.
I've heard similar reportings from tube-related friends of mine.

I can live very happily with modern production Svetlanas, Sovteks and
JJ Teslas though.

--
Sander deWaal
Vacuum Audio Consultancy

Sander deWaal wrote:

(Bruce J. Richman) said:


I'll second the quacking . Many users don't think that, for example,
Svetlana 6550C or EI KT-90 Type III output tubes are inferior to some of the
older GE or other historic brands at all. (Chinese output tubes, granted, are
not all that well received by many users).


The problem with many Chinese brand tubes is their reliability.
I've had many 6550s from Chinese descent that sounded wonderful, but
lasted very short in a standard application.
It is said their quality has gone upwards the last few years, but I've
never since tried any Chinese tubes.
I've heard similar reportings from tube-related friends of mine.

I can live very happily with modern production Svetlanas, Sovteks and
JJ Teslas though.

The common thing to do with a Jolida amp is to immediately swap the
crummy Chinese tubes with Sovteks or Svetlanas. Big improvement
at little cost.

Joseph Oberlander said:

The common thing to do with a Jolida amp is to immediately swap the
crummy Chinese tubes with Sovteks or Svetlanas.

How is it possible to have affinities for both tubed amps and the
Krooborg?

George M. Middius wrote:


Joseph Oberlander said:


The common thing to do with a Jolida amp is to immediately swap the
crummy Chinese tubes with Sovteks or Svetlanas.


How is it possible to have affinities for both tubed amps and the
Krooborg?

I like Tube amps - I always have, just like how I like R-R and
records for their asthetic of moving parts while music is playing.

Of course, I rarely have my music over 1-2 watts - maybe 10 on
a "up" day, so a big powerful amp isn't a big requirement.

Joseph Oberlander said:

How is it possible to have affinities for both tubed amps and the
Krooborg?

I like Tube amps

Yes, of course. Tube amps are very pleasing for a lot of people.

As far as your tolerance of the Krooborg .... a bit like that biology
experiment on the bottom shelf of the cooler, maybe? It keeps growing
and festering and getting more and more putrid, but you don't throw it
out because you're morbidly curious to see how bad it will get. Let me
know when I go wrong here.

On 2003-12-22, Powell wrote:

Translation: You have no hearing acuity or no financial
means .

What? ...I'm getting flak from a duck?

On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 07:27:20 GMT, notbob wrote:

On 2003-12-22, Powell wrote:

Translation: You have no hearing acuity or no financial
means .

What? ...I'm getting flak from a duck?

The opposite of AFLAK?

Kal