Would someone please give me a simple overview of Bi-amping and it's pros
and cons. I know a bit about it but I am not super clear on how one would
go about it with two distinct amps (vice bi-amping a multi channel amp to a
two chanel system).

How do you match the amps output? How do you split the audio signal into
both amps? If there is a good article on the whys and hows please point me!

Thanks
Art

Art M wrote:
Would someone please give me a simple overview of Bi-amping and it's pros
and cons. I know a bit about it but I am not super clear on how one would
go about it with two distinct amps (vice bi-amping a multi channel amp to a
two chanel system).

How do you match the amps output? How do you split the audio signal into
both amps? If there is a good article on the whys and hows please point me!

Thanks
Art


I am listening to a bi-amped system for a couple of years
and I love it. The main reason I bought it was that I could
audition the normal and bi-amped versions in a sighted
comparison in the store. The bi-amped system had just more
punch in the lows and in the highs, more life, more clear
imaging.

This is how it was implemented. The speakers are Rowen, a
Swiss manufacturer of fine speakers and amps. He happens to
be the official reseller of NAD products in Switzerland.
First, he split the original passive crossover in the
speakers (two ways) into highs and mid/bass. Then he build
an active crossover (3.5 kHz) into the power amp (NAD 912).
The source signal goes into the pre-amp section of the
integrated amp (NAD 304). From there into the poweramp which
amplifies the highs. The output of the crossover can be
adjusted (to match the two amps and to adapt to your
listening room) and is fed into the power section of the
integrated amp which amplifies the mid/bass.

As speaker cable I use one stranded 8 x 0.8 mm2 solid core
wire. 2x3 strands for the mid/bass, 2x1 strands for the
highs. The amps have only about 30 Wpc sine rms, 200 W into
2 Ohms. But since the speakers have a sensitivity of 89
dB/W/m and a bandwidth from 35 Hz to 22 kHz there is plenty
of power for me.

Cheers,
Franco

Back in 1979, I had a triamped car stereo. It consisted of an electronic
crossover and three stereo power amps as well as the tape player/fm radio
unit.

"Art M" wrote in message
news:0slcc.189553$1p.2197791@attbi_s54...
Would someone please give me a simple overview of Bi-amping and it's pros
and cons. I know a bit about it but I am not super clear on how one would
go about it with two distinct amps (vice bi-amping a multi channel amp to
a
two chanel system).

How do you match the amps output? How do you split the audio signal into
both amps? If there is a good article on the whys and hows please point
me!

Thanks
Art

How do you match the amps output? How do you split the audio signal into
both amps? If there is a good article on the whys and hows please point me!

To split the audio signal, take the signal from your preamplifier into
an electronic crossover. Set the crossover value to whatever you want.
You should take two outputs from the crossover, one for each power amp.

Then if you have two separate unmatched amplifiers, you will have to use
a second volume control for the second amp, called a passive level
control. This is sort of like a stunted preamp, and doesn't affect the
sound.

Biamping is like putting a subwoofer into your system. Most every one
is "biamped" with the mains these days.

-Sean

Biamping skips the usual passive crossover inside your speaker. Instead the
crossover is electronic, part of the preamp path. Separate amplifiers for hi
and lows. Separate speaker wires too. I like triamping or four way.
You will gain headroom and much less distortion, much greater control.
This may be state of the art, but a system can be built reasonably priced.
I built a 3 way system for less than 1000.00.

Franco Del Principe wrote in message news:Byncc.76584$gA5.916604@attbi_s03...
Art M wrote:
Would someone please give me a simple overview of Bi-amping and it's pros
and cons. I know a bit about it but I am not super clear on how one would
go about it with two distinct amps (vice bi-amping a multi channel amp to a
two chanel system).

How do you match the amps output? How do you split the audio signal into
both amps? If there is a good article on the whys and hows please point me!

Thanks
Art


I am listening to a bi-amped system for a couple of years
and I love it. The main reason I bought it was that I could
audition the normal and bi-amped versions in a sighted
comparison in the store. The bi-amped system had just more
punch in the lows and in the highs, more life, more clear
imaging.

This is how it was implemented. The speakers are Rowen, a
Swiss manufacturer of fine speakers and amps. He happens to
be the official reseller of NAD products in Switzerland.
First, he split the original passive crossover in the
speakers (two ways) into highs and mid/bass. Then he build
an active crossover (3.5 kHz) into the power amp (NAD 912).
The source signal goes into the pre-amp section of the
integrated amp (NAD 304). From there into the poweramp which
amplifies the highs. The output of the crossover can be
adjusted (to match the two amps and to adapt to your
listening room) and is fed into the power section of the
integrated amp which amplifies the mid/bass.

As speaker cable I use one stranded 8 x 0.8 mm2 solid core
wire. 2x3 strands for the mid/bass, 2x1 strands for the
highs. The amps have only about 30 Wpc sine rms, 200 W into
2 Ohms. But since the speakers have a sensitivity of 89
dB/W/m and a bandwidth from 35 Hz to 22 kHz there is plenty
of power for me.

Cheers,
Franco

Some speakers like my NHT 2.5i's have bi-amp capability. No electronic
(pre-amp level) x-over needed. There are 2 sets of posts at back of each
cabinet. I have (2) stereo 100w/ch amplifiers separately connected, 1 for
woofer and 1 for mid/tweeter. These are fed from pre-amp which conveniently
has 2 outputs. As for level control, the woofer amplifier has gain control
at back of unit. If you really do not have two pre-outs you may have to go
with a RCA jack Y-connector. EBAY has various ModSquad, Audioquest and
StraightWire Y's for bid right now.

Results: definitely more presence in my large-ish living room. More bass
with 100wpc dedicated to that driver. I suppose a 200wpc amplifier would've
done same but I like the building block method. Easier on my checkbook.

Again, in the two bi-amp systems I have used, no line level crossover was
needed (below statement ???).

hope this helps

"MYKEY" wrote in message
news:gDGcc.199077$1p.2268508@attbi_s54...
Biamping skips the usual passive crossover inside your speaker. Instead
the
crossover is electronic, part of the preamp path. Separate amplifiers for
hi
and lows. Separate speaker wires too. I like triamping or four way.
You will gain headroom and much less distortion, much greater control.
This may be state of the art, but a system can be built reasonably priced.
I built a 3 way system for less than 1000.00.

Franco Del Principe wrote in message
news:Byncc.76584$gA5.916604@attbi_s03...
Art M wrote:
Would someone please give me a simple overview of Bi-amping and it's
pros
and cons. I know a bit about it but I am not super clear on how one
would
go about it with two distinct amps (vice bi-amping a multi channel amp
to a
two chanel system).

How do you match the amps output? How do you split the audio signal
into
both amps? If there is a good article on the whys and hows please
point me!

Thanks
Art


I am listening to a bi-amped system for a couple of years
and I love it. The main reason I bought it was that I could
audition the normal and bi-amped versions in a sighted
comparison in the store. The bi-amped system had just more
punch in the lows and in the highs, more life, more clear
imaging.

This is how it was implemented. The speakers are Rowen, a
Swiss manufacturer of fine speakers and amps. He happens to
be the official reseller of NAD products in Switzerland.
First, he split the original passive crossover in the
speakers (two ways) into highs and mid/bass. Then he build
an active crossover (3.5 kHz) into the power amp (NAD 912).
The source signal goes into the pre-amp section of the
integrated amp (NAD 304). From there into the poweramp which
amplifies the highs. The output of the crossover can be
adjusted (to match the two amps and to adapt to your
listening room) and is fed into the power section of the
integrated amp which amplifies the mid/bass.

As speaker cable I use one stranded 8 x 0.8 mm2 solid core
wire. 2x3 strands for the mid/bass, 2x1 strands for the
highs. The amps have only about 30 Wpc sine rms, 200 W into
2 Ohms. But since the speakers have a sensitivity of 89
dB/W/m and a bandwidth from 35 Hz to 22 kHz there is plenty
of power for me.

Cheers,
Franco

I should add if you bypass/remove the passive high frequency crossover, I'd
put a series cap on the tweeter the would be an octave or two lower than the
setting on the electronic crossover to protect the tweeter from damage in
case the preamp/electronic crossover or tweeter poweramp fails or has turnon
thump.

- Dyslexics of America Untie! keithw...


"Keithw" wrote in message
news:N9Ccc.85365$JO3.43256@attbi_s04...
Back in 1979, I had a triamped car stereo. It consisted of an electronic
crossover and three stereo power amps as well as the tape player/fm radio
unit.

"Art M" wrote in message
news:0slcc.189553$1p.2197791@attbi_s54...

On 7 Apr 2004 04:19:46 GMT, "Oceans 2K"
wrote:

Some speakers like my NHT 2.5i's have bi-amp capability. No electronic
(pre-amp level) x-over needed. There are 2 sets of posts at back of each
cabinet. I have (2) stereo 100w/ch amplifiers separately connected, 1 for
woofer and 1 for mid/tweeter. These are fed from pre-amp which conveniently
has 2 outputs. As for level control, the woofer amplifier has gain control
at back of unit. If you really do not have two pre-outs you may have to go
with a RCA jack Y-connector. EBAY has various ModSquad, Audioquest and
StraightWire Y's for bid right now.

Results: definitely more presence in my large-ish living room. More bass
with 100wpc dedicated to that driver. I suppose a 200wpc amplifier would've
done same but I like the building block method. Easier on my checkbook.

It may sound better to you but your analysis is faulty. As the
mid/tweeter draws so much less power, the amount available for the
woofer is not much increased. And a single 200w amp could provide
more but I cannot say whether it would make any difference.

Again, in the two bi-amp systems I have used, no line level crossover was
needed (below statement ???).

hope this helps

Just another anecdotal report.

Kal

"Art M" wrote in message
news:0slcc.189553$1p.2197791@attbi_s54...
Would someone please give me a simple overview of Bi-amping and it's
pros
and cons. I know a bit about it but I am not super clear on how one
would
go about it with two distinct amps (vice bi-amping a multi channel
amp to a
two chanel system).

How do you match the amps output? How do you split the audio signal
into
both amps? If there is a good article on the whys and hows please
point me!

As you can imagine, there are pros and cons to bi-amping per se. My
guess is that you want to know the pros and cons of converting an
existing speaker to biamplification. If this is the case, I doubt
that there are any advantages, and certainly none that can be realized
by someone without lots of experience and knowledge of the subject.
Furthermore, almost all the advantages redound to the benefit of the
manufacturer--not the buyer.

So I would suggest that you do not undertake to biamplify your
speakers.

Norm Strong

"Art M" wrote in message
news:0slcc.189553$1p.2197791@attbi_s54...

Would someone please give me a simple overview of Bi-amping and it's pros
and cons.

Pros - You have to buy two amplifiers.
Many people report that it sounds better. Why? If I had a reason I
wouldn't post it, as this forum is full of debaters, and if it does sound
better do you really care to learn why?

Cons: if you go passive biamp (using internal speaker crossovers and biwire
terminals you get less improvement- or no improvement, according to some-).
If you actively biamp with an electronic crossover ( reputed to always be an
appreciable improvement ) you have the expense of the crossover and the
expense/work to go into your speakers to bypass their internal crossovers.

How do you match the amps output?

In the absence of test equipment I would use identical amps. I am thinking
of doing this myself with an extra demo Parasound HALO amp.

How do you split the audio signal into both amps?

For passive biamp there are Y connector cables from many sources. Active
electronic crossovers will have two sets of putputs.

If there is a good article on the whys and hows please point me!

Use Google and enter biamping. You will get more info that you can ever
read. Which ones are good? On passive biamping opinons vary as to why it
works, or even if it works. Any technical explanation from one source will
be refuted by another.
Active biamping seems to be as universally approved as possible in the world
of high end afficionados, and the explanations seem to make sense. Not
having enough background I can't vouch for the validity of any of the
explanations.

Wylie Williams
The Speaker and Stereo Store

Thanks
Art

OK Kal, I totally agree with faulty analysis statement. I'm not stating
that "more" amplifiers are better. Just saying that the building blocks
(100w+100w)approach is great for us working class guys. The doubling of
overall amplification power to my somewhat watt-hungry NHTs was the
"audible" difference. Esp in my large living room. The bi-amping itself did
not contribute to the audible improvement. If I insinuated that...my
apologies. Although, as you know, there is quite a camp of bi-amp or
tri-amp-is-better afficianados.

"Kalman Rubinson" wrote in message
...
On 7 Apr 2004 04:19:46 GMT, "Oceans 2K"
wrote:

Some speakers like my NHT 2.5i's have bi-amp capability. No electronic
(pre-amp level) x-over needed. There are 2 sets of posts at back of each
cabinet. I have (2) stereo 100w/ch amplifiers separately connected, 1
for
woofer and 1 for mid/tweeter. These are fed from pre-amp which
conveniently
has 2 outputs. As for level control, the woofer amplifier has gain
control
at back of unit. If you really do not have two pre-outs you may have to
go
with a RCA jack Y-connector. EBAY has various ModSquad, Audioquest and
StraightWire Y's for bid right now.

Results: definitely more presence in my large-ish living room. More
bass
with 100wpc dedicated to that driver. I suppose a 200wpc amplifier
would've
done same but I like the building block method. Easier on my checkbook.

It may sound better to you but your analysis is faulty. As the
mid/tweeter draws so much less power, the amount available for the
woofer is not much increased. And a single 200w amp could provide
more but I cannot say whether it would make any difference.

Again, in the two bi-amp systems I have used, no line level crossover was
needed (below statement ???).

hope this helps

Just another anecdotal report.

Kal

On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 01:12:52 GMT, "Oceans 2K"
wrote:

OK Kal, I totally agree with faulty analysis statement. I'm not stating
that "more" amplifiers are better. Just saying that the building blocks
(100w+100w)approach is great for us working class guys. The doubling of
overall amplification power to my somewhat watt-hungry NHTs was the
"audible" difference.

That's exactly what I am questioning. I do not think you are actually
'doubling' the power. If, on normal program material, the woofer
requires most of the power, biamping only makes for an incremental
increase in available power. Using a 200w amp would make a bigger
difference in that parameter.

Esp in my large living room. The bi-amping itself did
not contribute to the audible improvement. If I insinuated that...my
apologies. Although, as you know, there is quite a camp of bi-amp or
tri-amp-is-better afficianados.

I know. I know.

Kal

I have a Melos Music Director that goes to a Sunfire amp and out to
a small tube preamp I had built. The small preamp goes out to
2 Golden Tube 300B amps run in mono to the tops of Aerial 10t speakers.
The large Sunfire drives the woofers. The sound is wonderful.

I wish I could remember who built the tube preamp (used to equalize the top
and
bottom) Someone hear recomended the builder, but I cant find the reciept.

"Art M" wrote in message
news:0slcc.189553$1p.2197791@attbi_s54...
Would someone please give me a simple overview of Bi-amping and it's pros
and cons. I know a bit about it but I am not super clear on how one would
go about it with two distinct amps (vice bi-amping a multi channel amp to
a
two chanel system).

How do you match the amps output? How do you split the audio signal into
both amps? If there is a good article on the whys and hows please point
me!

Thanks
Art

Your preamp output will feed the input of the electronic crossover in stereo
the crossover will divide highs and lows providing stereo outputs for two
separate amplifiers. Some like the lows in mono and the crossover will
often have a mono sub out.
The crossover will have level controls for balancing the highs and lows, the
amp does not need on board volume controls. many professional power amps
have no volume controls.
the low frequency amp always needs much more power. It will take 6 speakers
to equal the volume of one horn or tweeter. For this reason, two unmatched
stereo amps will work with no problem at all. The tweeter amp can be much
smaller.
Its always better to bypass passive internal crossovers and direct wire
to the speaker when using an electronic crossover.
My home hi fi is triamped. Sometime im going to make it four way.
biamp, triamp... lowers the distortion and you are nolonger stuck with the
sound of your speakers, you can change the sound to your liking!

"Art M" wrote in message
news:0slcc.189553$1p.2197791@attbi_s54...
Would someone please give me a simple overview of Bi-amping and it's pros
and cons. I know a bit about it but I am not super clear on how one would
go about it with two distinct amps (vice bi-amping a multi channel amp to a
two chanel system).

How do you match the amps output? How do you split the audio signal into
both amps? If there is a good article on the whys and hows please point me!

Thanks
Art