S888Wheel a écrit :
From: Stewart Pinkerton

A classic beginners mistake.


I am not a beginner in this hobby.

LOL !

"Lionel" wrote in message

S888Wheel a écrit :
From: Stewart Pinkerton

A classic beginners mistake.


I am not a beginner in this hobby.

LOL !

For a non-beginner, our boy Scott sure has latched onto audio's leading
sucker plays, both vinyl and tubes.

"Arny Krueger" said:

For a non-beginner, our boy Scott sure has latched onto audio's leading
sucker plays, both vinyl and tubes.

Don't you own a CJ tube preamp, by your own admission?
Don't you own a turntable "for transcription use"?
Doesn't Pinkerton have a Michell Gyrodeck with AT-OC9?

What does that make you dudes?

Quit dumping garbage on your turntables and enjoy the music!

LOT:'s!

;-)

--
Sander deWaal
"SOA of a KT88? Sufficient."

"Sander deWaal" wrote in message


"Arny Krueger" said:

For a non-beginner, our boy Scott sure has latched onto audio's
leading sucker plays, both vinyl and tubes.

Don't you own a CJ tube preamp, by your own admission?

Sure. But I didn't pay a sucker's price for it. A previous owner took care
of that for me. And I don't deify it. It just gets the job done.

Don't you own a turntable "for transcription use"?

Sure. But I don't deify it, and I didn't pay a sucker's price for it,
either. It just gets the job done.

Doesn't Pinkerton have a Michell Gyrodeck with AT-OC9?

Sure. But he doesn't deify it, and I don think he paid a sucker's price
for it, either.

What does that make you dudes?

Smart guys who know when we are walking down memory lane.

Quit dumping garbage on your turntables and enjoy the music!

I was kinda under the impression that vinyl in good shape (which is all I
*dump* on my TT) wasn't garbage...

"Sander deWaal" wrote in message
...
"Arny Krueger" said:

For a non-beginner, our boy Scott sure has latched onto audio's leading
sucker plays, both vinyl and tubes.

Don't you own a CJ tube preamp, by your own admission?
Don't you own a turntable "for transcription use"?
Doesn't Pinkerton have a Michell Gyrodeck with AT-OC9?

What does that make you dudes?

Quit dumping garbage on your turntables and enjoy the music!

LOT:'s!

;-)


AFAIK, the only garbage dumped on my turntable is "Fresh Garbage"

"Arny Krueger" said:

Don't you own a CJ tube preamp, by your own admission?

Sure. But I didn't pay a sucker's price for it. A previous owner took care
of that for me. And I don't deify it. It just gets the job done.

Well, you could do a lot worse than CJ. Congrats!
BTW, I don't "deify" my stuff either.
Because I'm a DIY-er, I get my stuff for next to nothing.
I take pride in what I made, though.
Don't you call that "Constructor's Ear" or something? g

Don't you own a turntable "for transcription use"?

Sure. But I don't deify it, and I didn't pay a sucker's price for it,
either. It just gets the job done.

Same here, and since I've built it myself (except the bearing and
platter), it cost me about $100 or so (cartridge excepted).

Doesn't Pinkerton have a Michell Gyrodeck with AT-OC9?

Sure. But he doesn't deify it, and I don think he paid a sucker's price
for it, either.

I wouldn't know, but it wouldn't surprise me if he paid just the going
price for it.
And why not? Vinyl is music as well, and it deserves good
reproduction.

What does that make you dudes?

Smart guys who know when we are walking down memory lane.

But what does it make me?
I object to being called a "tube- and vinyl bigot" just because I
happen to play LPs once in a while and use tubes in my audio gear.

Then again, I'm probably not your everyday "audiophyle" either.

Quit dumping garbage on your turntables and enjoy the music!

I was kinda under the impression that vinyl in good shape (which is all I
*dump* on my TT) wasn't garbage...

Then you know that LP playback has certain properties that makes it
possible to enjoy music just as well as playing through CD/DVD
players, computers etc.

That's my point. You go around calling everyone tube and vinyl bigots
while you don't even know for what purpose they use their gear.
Do you really thing that Bruce, Marc, George, Art, Scott and others
worship their analog players as deities? Come on now. They just play
music on it. They even might prefer the sound of it compared to other
media. They even might state that opinion in rec.audio.OPINION.
Is that reason enough to call them "vinyl- and tube bigots"?

I play LPs, CDs, even cassettes, MP3s, and every once in a while I
drag my TEAC X2000R into the room to enjoy some master tapes I made
back when I played in bands.

The point is, it's all about the music. The format doesn't matter one
bit.
To me, the purpose is to enjoy music. I suspect the same goes for the
"usual suspects", as you so aptly call them.


Well, was that a reasonable post or not? I *knew* I could do it! :-)
I'll let you guys know as soon as I'm off the meds again.

--
Sander deWaal
"SOA of a KT88? Sufficient."

"Sander deWaal" wrote in message


That's my point. You go around calling everyone tube and vinyl bigots
while you don't even know for what purpose they use their gear.

Wrong Sander, I don't call everyone tube and vinyl bigots.

Do you really thing that Bruce, Marc, George, Art, Scott and others
worship their analog players as deities?

Scott yes, Marc probably, AFAIK George and Art don't even have analog
players. Don't know for sure as they are pretty secretive about what they've
got.

Come on now. They just play music on it.

You can just play music on a $10 portable CD player.

They even might prefer the sound of it compared to other
media. They even might state that opinion in rec.audio.OPINION.

Letsee, their opinions are OK on RAO because they are opinions, but my
opinions aren't because...???

Is that reason enough to call them "vinyl- and tube bigots"?

Like I just showed, you're over-generalizing Sander.

I play LPs, CDs, even cassettes, MP3s, and every once in a while I
drag my TEAC X2000R into the room to enjoy some master tapes I made
back when I played in bands.

Enjoy!

The point is, it's all about the music. The format doesn't matter one
bit.

That seems like a change of pace for you, Sander.

To me, the purpose is to enjoy music. I suspect the same goes for the
"usual suspects", as you so aptly call them.

They seem to like to make a big secret out of that.

Well, was that a reasonable post or not? I *knew* I could do it! :-)

How about that?

I'll let you guys know as soon as I'm off the meds again.

;-)

The Devil said:

In mine, there are many: all kinds of amps and turntables and CD
players work well with Quads.

That's a ****in' LIE and you know it!
Your Quads won't match well to a Mackie powered mixer.

--
Sander deWaal
"SOA of a KT88? Sufficient."

"Arny Krueger" said:

Letsee, their opinions are OK on RAO because they are opinions, but my
opinions aren't because...???

I assume your opinion is that digital audio gear in general does a
better job than analog gear. That's fine with me (and frankly, in
general I do agree with that, but don't tell my audio buddies here
please!).
I can't and won't speak for others here.
You'd be hard pressed to find a post by me where I attack you for
saying digital is better (though I probably have said things across
those lines years ago, when I was young and knew nothing :-) )
However, calling people vinyl- and tube bigots isn't an opinion.
To me, your *audio* opinions are just as valid as everyone else's,
just because they're opinions.
That doesn't mean they're necessarily right, does it? :-)
Even when you bring some more knowledge to the table than the average
RAO participant. See the threads with Glenn Zelniker for instance, not
one of the nitwits re. digital.

Look at it this way: some people here seem to think I know a lot about
tubes. I myself think there's probably more to learn for me about this
particular subject alone than I could ever accumulate in this life.
Nevertheless, does my *opinion* about tube amps carry more weight than
yours, or Lionel's, or George's?
I might be able to substantiate certain opinions with facts, just as
you could about digital audio.
But does the *opinion* in itself carry more weight?

Is that reason enough to call them "vinyl- and tube bigots"?

Like I just showed, you're over-generalizing Sander.

Probably. In my case, you did so yourself.

The point is, it's all about the music. The format doesn't matter one
bit.

That seems like a change of pace for you, Sander.

I wasn't aware of that, but if you perceive it that way, so be it.
Believe me that it was never my intention to worship just tubes and
vinyl. My recent power amplifier design proves this :-)
And my most recent acquiring of a Pioneer PD-S09 proves this as well.
No doubt, it'll be modded with maybe a tube output stage (if the She
approves of course).

To me, the purpose is to enjoy music. I suspect the same goes for the
"usual suspects", as you so aptly call them.

They seem to like to make a big secret out of that.

Read more careful, they do.

--
Sander deWaal
"SOA of a KT88? Sufficient."

The Devil said:

You owe me a royalty. That is my official name for, well, The She
(capitalised).

OK, OK. How many of those Jensens do you want, and what value?

--
Sander deWaal
"SOA of a KT88? Sufficient."

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

Scott yes, Marc probably, AFAIK George and Art don't even have analog
players. Don't know for sure as they are pretty secretive about what
they've
got.


Prove it!

The Devil said:

OK, OK. How many of those Jensens do you want, and what value?

I want all of them.

All I have left is 100 pF.
Oh well, you could wire several 1000s of them in parallel and impress
your painter some more.

Oh, and I forget to mention that I like your sig line very much.

Flattery will get you nowhere, prick.
Ate any KT100s lately? ;-)

--
Sander deWaal
"SOA of a KT88? Sufficient."

The Devil said:

Another surprise: The Siemens drivers sound terrible in my amps (I
bought four pairs of them for £180 - ugh). Back to bog-standard (and
wonderfully cheap) Mullards - which are . . . ahem . . . glorious
(viva Zip!).

The She urges me to come to bed to do some bad things she's been
reading about in *her* scientifical lecture. (she's obviously feeling
better now). I have a gut feeling my new preamp will be called Kama,
the accompanying power amp Sutra. They contain 69 components (really!)
The tiny bits of clothing I bought her today must have something to do
with it I guess (no more KT88s for me this month :-) )
So you'll have to excuse me, I'm off while the feeling lasts.

Yes my friends, tubes are a wonderful afrodisiac, as long as they stay
in their sockets that is. Oh, and avoid tubes with top caps!

--
Sander deWaal
"SOA of a KT88? Sufficient."

The Devil said:

People chasing THD measurements *do* have it wrong. Like
yourself, I don't know why this is the way it is (and like yourself,
BTW, I went to university to study electronic engineering - isn't
signing your name with the BSc appendage terribly snobbish behaviour
on such a forum? Although Arnii never did finish his, of course . . .
s******)

That's strange.......I never went to university, but I was told my
degree ( Ing., literally "engineer") was comparable to BSc abroad.

Another surprise: The Siemens drivers sound terrible in my amps (I
bought four pairs of them for £180 - ugh). Back to bog-standard (and
wonderfully cheap) Mullards - which are . . . ahem . . . glorious
(viva Zip!).

Ah! Those famous "diamond-bottomed" Siemens valves!
I told you that you've been had with those :-)

Next time, try before you pay. And while you're at it, do yourself a
favor and build a nice floating paraphase next.

--
Sander deWaal
"SOA of a KT88? Sufficient."

Paul Dormer said:

And my most recent acquiring of a Pioneer PD-S09 proves this as well.

Is that the one with the added harmonics?

Probably after I add the tube output stage ;-)

--
Sander deWaal
"SOA of a KT88? Sufficient."

Paul Dormer said:

Yes my friends, tubes are a wonderful afrodisiac, as long as they stay
in their sockets that is. Oh, and avoid tubes with top caps!

I'm not saying I'm well endowed, but you will please note my tube
depicted on the left, adjacent to an average size tube.

http://members.cox.net/gulfbeachbum/AY448.JPG

You will note, that, contrary to my advice, the tube on the left has a
top cap, note.
They're notoriously dangerous, note.

Ask your better half what she thinks about Tarzan. When she colors up
to the cheecks, you'll have your answer.
You'd then better hide all your 807s, EL519s, 6164s etc ;-)

--
Sander deWaal
"SOA of a KT88? Sufficient."

"The Devil" wrote in message
news:rm2jg05uf739jcsmisgb1tocqieokh4fkb@rdmzrnewst xt.nz

Although Arnii never did finish his, of course . . .

Wrong again.

The Devil said:

Ah! Those famous "diamond-bottomed" Siemens valves!
I told you that you've been had with those :-)

And I told you I had them confused with the Telefunkies. I think you
should shut up now, you horrid little self-satisfied daisy-picker.

I knew you did, but couldn't resist to rub it in once more.

It is a paraphase. You got that bit right. But not the valve type.

Probably some overhyped E80CC type or sumtin'.
You'll have to come up with something better to impress me, dude.
Probably sound like a Saab's muffler, too.

I'm feeling hairy today, note. Must be excitement in anticipation of
you sending me all those Jensen caps.

You want the blown ones or the ones with the 1927 date stamps?

--
Sander deWaal
"SOA of a KT88? Sufficient."

Art wrote:


"Sander deWaal" wrote in message
.. .
"Arny Krueger" said:

For a non-beginner, our boy Scott sure has latched onto audio's leading
sucker plays, both vinyl and tubes.

Don't you own a CJ tube preamp, by your own admission?
Don't you own a turntable "for transcription use"?
Doesn't Pinkerton have a Michell Gyrodeck with AT-OC9?

What does that make you dudes?

Quit dumping garbage on your turntables and enjoy the music!

LOT:'s!

;-)


AFAIK, the only garbage dumped on my turntable is "Fresh Garbage"










Is that the name of the rock group or the name of the album? Either way, I'm
not familiar with it. Sounds like a group name, but not as bizarre as "Dow
Jones and the Industrials" (a real name).



Bruce J. Richman

Sander deWaal wrote:

"Arny Krueger" said:

Don't you own a CJ tube preamp, by your own admission?

Sure. But I didn't pay a sucker's price for it. A previous owner took care
of that for me. And I don't deify it. It just gets the job done.

Well, you could do a lot worse than CJ. Congrats!

As another owner of a CJ preamp, I have to agree.

Oh yes - I didn't buy mine new either. And I certainly didn't overpay for it.



BTW, I don't "deify" my stuff either.
Because I'm a DIY-er, I get my stuff for next to nothing.
I take pride in what I made, though.
Don't you call that "Constructor's Ear" or something? g


I envy your knowledge of schematics and/or construction skills. Actually, my
first amplifier was a DIY'er, many years ago, when at the ripe old age of 17, I
built an H.H. Scott integrated amplifier. However, it was part of a kit
designed for those with less than an electronics expert's knowledge. Sadly,
very few kits seem available today, although they'd certainly be easier to
build than the old Scott, which had all point to point wiring.

You've got to love sending a bunch of wires to each tube socket. LOT'S.

However, at the end of many tedious, careful hours, when I finally plugged it
in and saw the glow of the tubes (with no fires - lol), and found out it
actually worked, the pride of accomplishment was pretty good for a 17-year-old
audio neophyte (relatively speaking).

I'd be tempted to try another project like this if it were reasonably priced
and compatible with my components - but the instructions would need to be
decent - lol.

Scott *did* do an excellent job re. instructions, full-color diagrams, parts
lists, basic advice on soldering, etc.






Don't you own a turntable "for transcription use"?

Sure. But I don't deify it, and I didn't pay a sucker's price for it,
either. It just gets the job done.

Same here, and since I've built it myself (except the bearing and
platter), it cost me about $100 or so (cartridge excepted).

Doesn't Pinkerton have a Michell Gyrodeck with AT-OC9?

Sure. But he doesn't deify it, and I don think he paid a sucker's price
for it, either.

I wouldn't know, but it wouldn't surprise me if he paid just the going
price for it.
And why not? Vinyl is music as well, and it deserves good
reproduction.

What does that make you dudes?

Smart guys who know when we are walking down memory lane.

But what does it make me?
I object to being called a "tube- and vinyl bigot" just because I
happen to play LPs once in a while and use tubes in my audio gear.

Then again, I'm probably not your everyday "audiophyle" either.

Quit dumping garbage on your turntables and enjoy the music!

I was kinda under the impression that vinyl in good shape (which is all I
*dump* on my TT) wasn't garbage...

Then you know that LP playback has certain properties that makes it
possible to enjoy music just as well as playing through CD/DVD
players, computers etc.

That's my point. You go around calling everyone tube and vinyl bigots
while you don't even know for what purpose they use their gear.
Do you really thing that Bruce, Marc, George, Art, Scott and others
worship their analog players as deities? Come on now. They just play
music on it. They even might prefer the sound of it compared to other
media. They even might state that opinion in rec.audio.OPINION.
Is that reason enough to call them "vinyl- and tube bigots"?

I play LPs, CDs, even cassettes, MP3s, and every once in a while I
drag my TEAC X2000R into the room to enjoy some master tapes I made
back when I played in bands.

The point is, it's all about the music. The format doesn't matter one
bit.
To me, the purpose is to enjoy music. I suspect the same goes for the
"usual suspects", as you so aptly call them.


Well, was that a reasonable post or not? I *knew* I could do it! :-)
I'll let you guys know as soon as I'm off the meds again.

--
Sander deWaal
"SOA of a KT88? Sufficient."









Bruce J. Richman

The Devilish Graham wrote:


On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 20:53:38 +0200, Sander deWaal
wrote:

"Arny Krueger" said:

Don't you own a CJ tube preamp, by your own admission?

Sure. But I didn't pay a sucker's price for it. A previous owner took care
of that for me. And I don't deify it. It just gets the job done.

Well, you could do a lot worse than CJ. Congrats!
BTW, I don't "deify" my stuff either.
Because I'm a DIY-er, I get my stuff for next to nothing.
I take pride in what I made, though.
Don't you call that "Constructor's Ear" or something? g

Don't you own a turntable "for transcription use"?

Sure. But I don't deify it, and I didn't pay a sucker's price for it,
either. It just gets the job done.

Same here, and since I've built it myself (except the bearing and
platter), it cost me about $100 or so (cartridge excepted).

Doesn't Pinkerton have a Michell Gyrodeck with AT-OC9?

Sure. But he doesn't deify it, and I don think he paid a sucker's price
for it, either.

I wouldn't know, but it wouldn't surprise me if he paid just the going
price for it.
And why not? Vinyl is music as well, and it deserves good
reproduction.


Agreed. LOT's !


What does that make you dudes?

Smart guys who know when we are walking down memory lane.

But what does it make me?
I object to being called a "tube- and vinyl bigot" just because I
happen to play LPs once in a while and use tubes in my audio gear.


Don't worry about his chronic, repetitive smears of vinyl and tube users as
"vinyl or tube bigots". He's grossly misusing the term bigot, which is defined
as follows:

"Main Entry: big·ot
Pronunciation: 'bi-g&t
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French, hypocrite, bigot
Date: 1661
: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and
prejudices
- big·ot·ed /-g&-t&d/ adjective
- big·ot·ed·ly adverb"

(quoted from Merriam-Webster dictionary)

Since AFAIK, all of us who happen to enjoy vinyl and/or use some tubed
equipment AMONG OTHERS of which we are EQUALLY TOLERANT, I would say that the
bigotry is, by definition, wholly a function of those intolerant, prejudiced
individuals (3 on RAO that I know of) that routinely exhibit their lack of
tolerance and/or flexibility by engaging in character asssassination and silly
name-calling about those who have more flexibility and tolerance than they do -
especially as it pertains to various music media (LPs, CDs, DVD's, hi-rez
formats) and equipment (SS, tubes, hybrids, etc.). To this psychologist, the
tell-tale screaming of "tube bigot" and/or "vinyl bigot" - considering the
sources - is a classic case of projection - lol.

It's worth noting that most of the targets of this verbal abuse, bigotry and
projection, don't seem to have any agenda-driven need to go around smearing and
insulting those that limit themselves to digital media and SS equipment.

Then again, I'm probably not your everyday "audiophyle" either.

Quit dumping garbage on your turntables and enjoy the music!

I was kinda under the impression that vinyl in good shape (which is all I
*dump* on my TT) wasn't garbage...

Then you know that LP playback has certain properties that makes it
possible to enjoy music just as well as playing through CD/DVD
players, computers etc.

That's my point. You go around calling everyone tube and vinyl bigots
while you don't even know for what purpose they use their gear.
Do you really thing that Bruce, Marc, George, Art, Scott and others
worship their analog players as deities? Come on now. They just play
music on it. They even might prefer the sound of it compared to other
media. They even might state that opinion in rec.audio.OPINION.
Is that reason enough to call them "vinyl- and tube bigots"?

I play LPs, CDs, even cassettes, MP3s, and every once in a while I
drag my TEAC X2000R into the room to enjoy some master tapes I made
back when I played in bands.

The point is, it's all about the music. The format doesn't matter one
bit.
To me, the purpose is to enjoy music. I suspect the same goes for the
"usual suspects", as you so aptly call them.


Well, was that a reasonable post or not? I *knew* I could do it! :-)
I'll let you guys know as soon as I'm off the meds again.

Very nice, but you're wasting your breath telling this to Krooger. In
his world, there is only one way to enjoy music.

In mine, there are many: all kinds of amps and turntables and CD
players work well with Quads.


Agreed. There are many ways to enjoy music. For me, it consists of a mixture
of SS and tubed gear - both of which I enjoy equally. While my home system
consists of mostly tubed electronics (except for the CD transport, FM tuner and
cassette deck) and electrostatics, my mobile system, which I listen to a lot
consists of Nakamichi and Audio Arts electronics - all solid state - and 4
matched component sets of MB Quart dynamic speakers (woofer/midranges,
tweeters, and crossovers). On all of these, I'm playing a large assortment of
LPs and CD's, and enjoy them all. The only cassettes I play are those dubbed
from the LPs and/or CD's - with Dolby C encoding, careful attention to levels,
and consequently, a very enjoyable experience while riding around. And the 4
channel amplifier I've got driving the 4 sets of automobile speakers is really
clean sounding and does not suffer at all from any audible SS artifacts. So
given this experience, who are the real bigots here?

BTW, while we're on the subject - somewhat tangentially - of vinyl vs. CD's - I
have a question to pose. I've noticed that with some of my CD's which were
originally recorded and/or mastered at the analog level (according to the SPARS
code and/or album notes), the sound appears to be more pleasant, in general,
than some of the "DDD" recorded CD's. Note this is not true of all my CD's and
ones on labels like Telarc, Klavier, and Chesky, which I own, often sound
excellent, even if DDD. Similarly, I've got some "digitally recorded LP's"
which sound really crappy - compared to the average analogue LP. Have others
had the same experience?

Here's an example of what I'm talking about.

I have two Eric Clapton sets. The original "Crossroad" multi-LP set is
"remastered to digitally", and the LPs, for the most part sound thin, overly
bright, and in general, strident. All 6 LPs are remastered reissues of
Clapton's work with Cream and other early groups as well as his own stuff. The
second multi-CD set I have is called "Crossroads 2", and consists of analogue
recordings of Clapton live concerts transferred to CD. The sound is superior
in every way I can think of to the sound of the LP set.

So, I suspect, as others have mentioned here from time to time, the "devil is
in the details" for many of these recordings. Or, IOW, the sound quality is
sometimes much more dependent on the recording and/or mastering than on whether
it happens to be on digital or vinyl.

And since few, if any of us, have had the opportunity, to compare the original
performance - LIVE - with the end product, whether it be on vinyl or CD, any
bloviating about the CD being a more "accurate" transfer of what was actually
recorded in the studio would appear to be mostly conjecture.








--
td








Bruce J. Richman

Sander deWaal wrote:


The Devil said:

In mine, there are many: all kinds of amps and turntables and CD
players work well with Quads.

That's a ****in' LIE and you know it!
Your Quads won't match well to a Mackie powered mixer.

--
Sander deWaal
"SOA of a KT88? Sufficient."








What Graham needs to do is replace all the Quad electronics with tubed
equivalents.


Bruce J. Richman

Paul Dormer wrote:



"The Devil" emitted :

In mine, there are many: all kinds of amps and turntables and CD
players work well with Quads.

That's a ****in' LIE and you know it!
Your Quads won't match well to a Mackie powered mixer.

OK, you got me there.

Today is turning out weird. Earlier I was going through some old
'notes' I made on my little digital dictaphone gizmo. I was talking
about a flatulent mule and growing strawberries in my beard. Must have
been a good night.

Good idea on the strawbs. There'll always be someone at hand to keep
the birds from peckin'. I hope you use organic fertilzer..


--
S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t








I recommend placing the beard in close proximity to a matched Quad (pun
intended) of Ei KT-90 Type 3's to provide optimal warmth to accelerate the
growth of the strawberries and improve their sweetness. Such care would
demonstrate good taste.



Bruce J. Richman

Sander deWaal wrote:


The Devil said:

People chasing THD measurements *do* have it wrong. Like
yourself, I don't know why this is the way it is (and like yourself,
BTW, I went to university to study electronic engineering - isn't
signing your name with the BSc appendage terribly snobbish behaviour
on such a forum? Although Arnii never did finish his, of course . . .
s******)


Sometimes, the meaning of college or university degrees can be misinterpreted.

A few (very few, thankfully) patients of mine who perhaps did not get the
"magical results" they were expecting think my 3 degrees, BS, MS, and PhD stand
for Bull****, More****, and Piled Higher and Deeper.

(Since public profanity has now been popularized by our Vice president, Dick
"Haliburton" Cheney, and by inference by John Kerry's wife, Teresa, who
recently told a reporter badgering her to "Shove it", I figure I'm ok with a
little profanity here

True story - I was watching John Kerry's nomination acceptance speech last
night on CNN - live, of course. At the end of the speech, thousands of
balloons hanging up in the ceilings were supposed to be released
simultaneously. Apparently, something went wrong, and they came trickling down
very slowly. The convention director, who had an open microphone picked up by
CNN, started screaming "Where are the balloons. I need balloons." and as his
frustration mounted, through an open mike screamed "Where the f**k are the
balloons?". All live, as in the good old days - LOL !!! Needless to say, the
CNN anchors tried to apologize, but it was obvious they enjoyed it - LOL.

Let the Republicans top that - LOL !!!









That's strange.......I never went to university, but I was told my
degree ( Ing., literally "engineer") was comparable to BSc abroad.

Another surprise: The Siemens drivers sound terrible in my amps (I
bought four pairs of them for £180 - ugh). Back to bog-standard (and
wonderfully cheap) Mullards - which are . . . ahem . . . glorious
(viva Zip!).

Ah! Those famous "diamond-bottomed" Siemens valves!
I told you that you've been had with those :-)

Next time, try before you pay. And while you're at it, do yourself a
favor and build a nice floating paraphase next.

--
Sander deWaal
"SOA of a KT88? Sufficient."








Bruce J. Richman

"Bruce J. Richman" wrote in message
...
Art wrote:


"Sander deWaal" wrote in message
.. .
"Arny Krueger" said:

For a non-beginner, our boy Scott sure has latched onto audio's
leading
sucker plays, both vinyl and tubes.

Don't you own a CJ tube preamp, by your own admission?
Don't you own a turntable "for transcription use"?
Doesn't Pinkerton have a Michell Gyrodeck with AT-OC9?

What does that make you dudes?

Quit dumping garbage on your turntables and enjoy the music!

LOT:'s!

;-)


AFAIK, the only garbage dumped on my turntable is "Fresh Garbage"










Is that the name of the rock group or the name of the album? Either way,
I'm
not familiar with it. Sounds like a group name, but not as bizarre as
"Dow
Jones and the Industrials" (a real name).



Bruce J. Richman



Spirit is the group, its the first album, Fresh Garbage is a song on it. I
think it may have been the name of the album, also

"Bruce J. Richman" wrote in message
...
Sander deWaal wrote:


The Devil said:

People chasing THD measurements *do* have it wrong. Like
yourself, I don't know why this is the way it is (and like yourself,
BTW, I went to university to study electronic engineering - isn't
signing your name with the BSc appendage terribly snobbish behaviour
on such a forum? Although Arnii never did finish his, of course . . .
s******)


Sometimes, the meaning of college or university degrees can be
misinterpreted.

A few (very few, thankfully) patients of mine who perhaps did not get the
"magical results" they were expecting think my 3 degrees, BS, MS, and PhD
stand
for Bull****, More****, and Piled Higher and Deeper.

(Since public profanity has now been popularized by our Vice president,
Dick
"Haliburton" Cheney, and by inference by John Kerry's wife, Teresa, who
recently told a reporter badgering her to "Shove it", I figure I'm ok with
a
little profanity here

True story - I was watching John Kerry's nomination acceptance speech last
night on CNN - live, of course. At the end of the speech, thousands of
balloons hanging up in the ceilings were supposed to be released
simultaneously. Apparently, something went wrong, and they came trickling
down
very slowly. The convention director, who had an open microphone picked
up by
CNN, started screaming "Where are the balloons. I need balloons." and as
his
frustration mounted, through an open mike screamed "Where the f**k are the
balloons?". All live, as in the good old days - LOL !!! Needless to say,
the
CNN anchors tried to apologize, but it was obvious they enjoyed it - LOL.

Let the Republicans top that - LOL !!!


I think the same thing happened to the Democrats before during the Dukakis
convention.

Bad Penny wrote:


"Bruce J. Richman" wrote in message
...
Art wrote:


"Sander deWaal" wrote in message
.. .
"Arny Krueger" said:

For a non-beginner, our boy Scott sure has latched onto audio's
leading
sucker plays, both vinyl and tubes.

Don't you own a CJ tube preamp, by your own admission?
Don't you own a turntable "for transcription use"?
Doesn't Pinkerton have a Michell Gyrodeck with AT-OC9?

What does that make you dudes?

Quit dumping garbage on your turntables and enjoy the music!

LOT:'s!

;-)


AFAIK, the only garbage dumped on my turntable is "Fresh Garbage"










Is that the name of the rock group or the name of the album? Either way,
I'm
not familiar with it. Sounds like a group name, but not as bizarre as
"Dow
Jones and the Industrials" (a real name).



Bruce J. Richman



Spirit is the group, its the first album, Fresh Garbage is a song on it. I
think it may have been the name of the album, also










Thank you for sharing that with the group.

Your time is up



Bruce J. Richman

Bad Penny wrote:


"Bruce J. Richman" wrote in message
...
Sander deWaal wrote:


The Devil said:

People chasing THD measurements *do* have it wrong. Like
yourself, I don't know why this is the way it is (and like yourself,
BTW, I went to university to study electronic engineering - isn't
signing your name with the BSc appendage terribly snobbish behaviour
on such a forum? Although Arnii never did finish his, of course . . .
s******)


Sometimes, the meaning of college or university degrees can be
misinterpreted.

A few (very few, thankfully) patients of mine who perhaps did not get the
"magical results" they were expecting think my 3 degrees, BS, MS, and PhD
stand
for Bull****, More****, and Piled Higher and Deeper.

(Since public profanity has now been popularized by our Vice president,
Dick
"Haliburton" Cheney, and by inference by John Kerry's wife, Teresa, who
recently told a reporter badgering her to "Shove it", I figure I'm ok with
a
little profanity here

True story - I was watching John Kerry's nomination acceptance speech last
night on CNN - live, of course. At the end of the speech, thousands of
balloons hanging up in the ceilings were supposed to be released
simultaneously. Apparently, something went wrong, and they came trickling
down
very slowly. The convention director, who had an open microphone picked
up by
CNN, started screaming "Where are the balloons. I need balloons." and as
his
frustration mounted, through an open mike screamed "Where the f**k are the
balloons?". All live, as in the good old days - LOL !!! Needless to say,
the
CNN anchors tried to apologize, but it was obvious they enjoyed it - LOL.

Let the Republicans top that - LOL !!!


I think the same thing happened to the Democrats before during the Dukakis
convention.










That could be. Somehow, whenever I think of Dukakis, I think of those silly
pictures of him in a tank.



Bruce J. Richman

"Bruce J. Richman" wrote in message
...
Bad Penny wrote:


"Bruce J. Richman" wrote in message
...
Sander deWaal wrote:


The Devil said:

People chasing THD measurements *do* have it wrong. Like
yourself, I don't know why this is the way it is (and like yourself,
BTW, I went to university to study electronic engineering - isn't
signing your name with the BSc appendage terribly snobbish behaviour
on such a forum? Although Arnii never did finish his, of course . . .
s******)


Sometimes, the meaning of college or university degrees can be
misinterpreted.

A few (very few, thankfully) patients of mine who perhaps did not get
the
"magical results" they were expecting think my 3 degrees, BS, MS, and
PhD
stand
for Bull****, More****, and Piled Higher and Deeper.

(Since public profanity has now been popularized by our Vice president,
Dick
"Haliburton" Cheney, and by inference by John Kerry's wife, Teresa, who
recently told a reporter badgering her to "Shove it", I figure I'm ok
with
a
little profanity here

True story - I was watching John Kerry's nomination acceptance speech
last
night on CNN - live, of course. At the end of the speech, thousands of
balloons hanging up in the ceilings were supposed to be released
simultaneously. Apparently, something went wrong, and they came
trickling
down
very slowly. The convention director, who had an open microphone
picked
up by
CNN, started screaming "Where are the balloons. I need balloons." and
as
his
frustration mounted, through an open mike screamed "Where the f**k are
the
balloons?". All live, as in the good old days - LOL !!! Needless to
say,
the
CNN anchors tried to apologize, but it was obvious they enjoyed it -
LOL.

Let the Republicans top that - LOL !!!


I think the same thing happened to the Democrats before during the
Dukakis
convention.










That could be. Somehow, whenever I think of Dukakis, I think of those
silly
pictures of him in a tank.



Bruce J. Richman

"Bruce J. Richman" wrote in message
...
Bad Penny wrote:


"Bruce J. Richman" wrote in message
...
Sander deWaal wrote:


The Devil said:

People chasing THD measurements *do* have it wrong. Like
yourself, I don't know why this is the way it is (and like yourself,
BTW, I went to university to study electronic engineering - isn't
signing your name with the BSc appendage terribly snobbish behaviour
on such a forum? Although Arnii never did finish his, of course . . .
s******)


Sometimes, the meaning of college or university degrees can be
misinterpreted.

A few (very few, thankfully) patients of mine who perhaps did not get
the
"magical results" they were expecting think my 3 degrees, BS, MS, and
PhD
stand
for Bull****, More****, and Piled Higher and Deeper.

(Since public profanity has now been popularized by our Vice president,
Dick
"Haliburton" Cheney, and by inference by John Kerry's wife, Teresa, who
recently told a reporter badgering her to "Shove it", I figure I'm ok
with
a
little profanity here

True story - I was watching John Kerry's nomination acceptance speech
last
night on CNN - live, of course. At the end of the speech, thousands of
balloons hanging up in the ceilings were supposed to be released
simultaneously. Apparently, something went wrong, and they came
trickling
down
very slowly. The convention director, who had an open microphone
picked
up by
CNN, started screaming "Where are the balloons. I need balloons." and
as
his
frustration mounted, through an open mike screamed "Where the f**k are
the
balloons?". All live, as in the good old days - LOL !!! Needless to
say,
the
CNN anchors tried to apologize, but it was obvious they enjoyed it -
LOL.

Let the Republicans top that - LOL !!!


I think the same thing happened to the Democrats before during the
Dukakis
convention.










That could be. Somehow, whenever I think of Dukakis, I think of those
silly
pictures of him in a tank.



Bruce J. Richman




AFA Kerry goes, the blue bunny suit was an improvement, sort of smoothed out
his rough edges.

Paul Dormer said:

You will note, that, contrary to my advice, the tube on the left has a
top cap, note.

It serves a purpose, Sander. It's for adding attachments, such as :
http://tinyurl.com/3uukt

I think you underestimate the capacity of a woman's vagina. Ref:
http://tinyurl.com/5n9cv

This should answer all your questions.
http://tinyurl.com/4r3gu

LOL!!!!!!!!

OK, OK, I know when I've met my Nemesis. I concede :-)

--
Sander deWaal
"SOA of a KT88? Sufficient."

(Bruce J. Richman) said:

I envy your knowledge of schematics and/or construction skills. Actually, my
first amplifier was a DIY'er, many years ago, when at the ripe old age of 17, I
built an H.H. Scott integrated amplifier. However, it was part of a kit
designed for those with less than an electronics expert's knowledge. Sadly,
very few kits seem available today, although they'd certainly be easier to
build than the old Scott, which had all point to point wiring.

The Scotts I've seen and heard, were quite impressive, even for
today's standards.

BTW, there still are several tube kits around, I've seen some
mentioned in RATubes.
I could find references if you're interested.


You've got to love sending a bunch of wires to each tube socket. LOT'S.

I LOVE it !!!!!!!!! :-)

However, at the end of many tedious, careful hours, when I finally plugged it
in and saw the glow of the tubes (with no fires - lol), and found out it
actually worked, the pride of accomplishment was pretty good for a 17-year-old
audio neophyte (relatively speaking).

I guess I'll always be that little boy that's happy when his Meccano
contraption does "something", even if it is only once.
Happily, my amps do their job a bit better and longer these days!

I'd be tempted to try another project like this if it were reasonably priced
and compatible with my components - but the instructions would need to be
decent - lol.

Like I said, RATubes had some threads a while back on that.
I'll look into that and e-mail you some if you like.
Posting it to the group would make some people a bit "nervous", don't
you think? ;-)

--
Sander deWaal
"SOA of a KT88? Sufficient."

Sander deWaal wrote:


(Bruce J. Richman) said:

I envy your knowledge of schematics and/or construction skills. Actually,
my
first amplifier was a DIY'er, many years ago, when at the ripe old age of
17, I
built an H.H. Scott integrated amplifier. However, it was part of a kit
designed for those with less than an electronics expert's knowledge. Sadly,
very few kits seem available today, although they'd certainly be easier to
build than the old Scott, which had all point to point wiring.

The Scotts I've seen and heard, were quite impressive, even for
today's standards.


Agreed. Scott, Fisher, Marantz (back before it was bought out by the
Japanese), and McIntosh were several of the old classic tube brands which were
and still are highly regarded by many hobbyists. One only need to look at eBay
to find some excellent examples of these "golden oldies". McIntosh is still
in business, and still making both tubed and SS gear.



BTW, there still are several tube kits around, I've seen some
mentioned in RATubes.
I could find references if you're interested.


Sure. Thank you.

Unfortunately, my current speakers demand quite a bit of power and current to
sound their best, and as you know, large tubed amplifiers are pretty expensive.
I'd be interested in hearing more about hybrid amplifiers, especially if they
compare favorably with tubed equipment, subjectively speaking.

My only experience with hybird gear, however, has been quite positive. I have
a DAC made by California Audio Labs, which has 2 12AX7's in its output stage,
while the rest is SS, of course. I use a couple of NOS Mullards, and hooked up
to rugged transport, also made by California Audio Labs, fed by a balanced
digital interconnect, it sounds excellent IMHO. In fact, when I first
auditioned the combo, CAL Delta/Alpha, it reminded me more of decent analogue
sound than digital sound, which is my preference.






You've got to love sending a bunch of wires to each tube socket. LOT'S.

I LOVE it !!!!!!!!! :-)

However, at the end of many tedious, careful hours, when I finally plugged
it
in and saw the glow of the tubes (with no fires - lol), and found out it
actually worked, the pride of accomplishment was pretty good for a
17-year-old
audio neophyte (relatively speaking).

I guess I'll always be that little boy that's happy when his Meccano
contraption does "something", even if it is only once.
Happily, my amps do their job a bit better and longer these days!

I'd be tempted to try another project like this if it were reasonably priced
and compatible with my components - but the instructions would need to be
decent - lol.

Like I said, RATubes had some threads a while back on that.
I'll look into that and e-mail you some if you like.
Posting it to the group would make some people a bit "nervous", don't
you think? ;-)

--
Sander deWaal
"SOA of a KT88? Sufficient."









Bruce J. Richman

(Bruce J. Richman) said:

BTW, there still are several tube kits around, I've seen some
mentioned in RATubes.
I could find references if you're interested.

Sure. Thank you.

I'll "fire up ole' Google" and see what I can come up with.
This may take a while though, and I fear the topic was flea power.

Unfortunately, my current speakers demand quite a bit of power and current to
sound their best, and as you know, large tubed amplifiers are pretty expensive.
I'd be interested in hearing more about hybrid amplifiers, especially if they
compare favorably with tubed equipment, subjectively speaking.

Well, there's an area where I have some experience in.
I've built several hybrids, mostly consisting of an E88CC/E288CC SRPP
stage, followed by a single pair or multiple array of complementary
Hitachi MOSFETs.
Those MOSFETs are different from the various V-FET or HEXFET types one
can buy plenty today.
The 2SK135/2SJ50 combo which I use, are out of production, sadly.
There are alternatives, which I tried as well, but since they are
housed in a plastic case, the heat transfer to the heatsink is
somewhat more problematic.
My designs are largely class A (at least in impedances of 8 ohms and
higher), so the heat transfer of the metal-case TO-3 Hitachis is an
advantage.
The option is to put more of the plastic ones in parallel, but this
causes problems with the high gate-source capacity.
A single E88CC or even E288CC can't handle the charge currents
anymore, so this means a more complex driver consisting of several
triode sections in parallel.
Apart from the need of matching tubes, their characteristics differ
with age, so that's still a problem to work out.
I've been there, and I don't have a handy solution for that (yet).
More pragmatic souls probably would use a solid state driving stage
:-)

Because of my use of the MOSFETs as a source follower, the tube
character is largely maintained, and the speaker properties don't work
back to the input stage as well (no global NFB either).

I could send you a schem of one of the amps, in your case it's
probably best to have the simple version with 1 x E88CC and 2 x
2SJ50/2 x 2SK135.
Providing you can find the MOSFETs (they can be found on Ebay
sometimes at too high prices), this could well be a good solution for
you.

Then there's the problem of a good manual and PCB........
I build my stuff on experimenter's boards, wiring it up the old way.
This is not for every one I'm afraid.

Oh well, you just as well might look out for a Moscode (NYAL) 300 or
600, or Acoustat Twin Nova.
They use the same MOSFETs, be it that the Moscodes have a ^CG7 double
triode as a driver, the Acoustats are entirely solid state.

If ever I visit the States again, and get near you, I'll smuggle in
some components for you :-)

My only experience with hybird gear, however, has been quite positive. I have
a DAC made by California Audio Labs, which has 2 12AX7's in its output stage,
while the rest is SS, of course. I use a couple of NOS Mullards, and hooked up
to rugged transport, also made by California Audio Labs, fed by a balanced
digital interconnect, it sounds excellent IMHO. In fact, when I first
auditioned the combo, CAL Delta/Alpha, it reminded me more of decent analogue
sound than digital sound, which is my preference.

Have you ever tried a Wadia combo?
I once had the possibility to listen to a X-64 and associated
transport for a longer period of time.
The closest to analog I've ever heard out of a CD player!

--
Sander deWaal
"SOA of a KT88? Sufficient."

(Bruce J. Richman) said:

I'll "fire up ole' Google" and see what I can come up with.
This may take a while though, and I fear the topic was flea power.

Just did this, but I've not yet found any kit that goes ebyond the SE
2A3 or PPEL84 type.
Would probably be hard anyway to beat the quality of your premier
series amp!
Tweaking the CJ isn't an option either, as far as I know it already
uses the most optimized components.
Maybe a change to KT90s may do something for you?
Seemed to work for that brat from Perfid Albion :-)

I appreciate the sentiments. It's been many years since I've even looked at a
schematic, so I'd have to refresh my memory on how to read them.

Then there's the problem of a good manual and PCB........
I build my stuff on experimenter's boards, wiring it up the old way.
This is not for every one I'm afraid.

I think you're right.

Just got the same problem with a musicophyle friend of mine.
He wanted to build his own amp, so I gave him parts, a schematic, some
experimenter's boards etc.
Two days later he came back, asking how he should connect the heat
sink to the PCB........turned out he soldered the MOSFETS directly on
the PCB, without using a piece of stripline to put to the heatsink.
Also, he got the tube's connections backwards.
This guy is used to solid state (ICs), where the pinning is read from
above, where with tubes it is seen from the underside.
Sigh.
I'll build it for him now.

I'll spare you the same frustration :-)
It's probably not useful if I build you one, shipping it to the US
would cost an arm and a leg (weighs about 23 kgs).
Plus, it won't confirm to UL standards, so it'll probably won't even
enter US soil.......:-)

I recall the Moscodes, but haven't seen one for sale in years. But then again,
I haven't been looking at eBay or Audiogon *that* closely. While not
pretending to know much about SS parts, I *have* heard it said that MOSFETS
used in certain amplifiers have more of a tube-like sound than other types of
transistors. Is this generally true, or does it depend on where they are used?

There are many factors accountable for the "sound" of an amplifier, or
any audio component in general.
The component itzelf, the properties of a given type, the way it is
used in the circuit, the way it is driven, the quality of the power
supply, the build quality, etc etc etc. Tens, maybe hundreds of
variables, and they all combined must give a certain result.
BJTs can sound "tube-like", if that means that an extremely high
amount of second harmonics is present in the output signal.
All one needs to do is to unbalance the input differentail stage.
One could use a device called "Aural Exciter" to obtain the same and
probably even better result.
If "tube-character"means a low damping factor, and a high dependance
on speaker properties, just connect a 0.5 or 1 ohm resistor in series
with the output and make sure the global feedback is taken before that
point. Voila, the "soft sound", depending highly on room and speaker
properties. Do we want that? I don't !

The tale that MOSFETs would sound tube-like (what's that, anyway?)
probably stems from the fact that both elements are voltage driven
instead of power driven like BJTs.
It is true though that the transfer characteristics ("input vs.
output) are somewhat quadratic in nature, while BJTs have an
exponential characteristic.
When looking at transfer characteristics from tubes, there are
differences betwen triodes and beam tetrodes or pentodes.
The latter are steeper, have a higher amplification factor, but are
less linear than triodes. And that's only ONE factor to keep into
consideration.

There's another solid state component, the IGBT (Insulated Gate
Bipolar Transistor) that seems to combine the best of 2 worlds.
I still have to look into that. A day should have 300 hours!

As an aside, I'd like to know what's my car's outboard power amplifier, an
Audio Arts 4-channel job which I use to drive 4 matched sets of MB Quart
speakers. While the speakers are relatively high quality for a mobile system
(I do a lot of driving so it's worth it to me), and the head end is SOTA for a
cassette player (a Nakimichi TD-1200 Type 2 Mobile Dragon I scored on eBay from
an engineer who collects Nakamichi gear), the amplifier in combination with
this stuff sounds very clean without any traces of hardness, thinness or
brightness that I can discern.
(Of course it might be also somewhat due to the fact that I'm listening to
analog media - Maxell tape cassettes encoded with Dolby C by a Nakamichi deck
that is making the difference).

I don't know enough about car audio to answer that question, but I
suspect that speaker quality, enclosure (as far as that goes into
doors and boots) and acoustics are among the most important factors to
get good sound in the car.
Probably Tom Nousaine would be the man to ask, he's pretty well know
about this subject if I recall correctly.

It's a good excuse to visit Florida during the winter. And of course,
Jamaica is not too far away, if you run out of ...........
well, you know

Umm......I suspect that Amsterdam offers a more diverse program :-)
Besides, the days that I used pot almost daily are long gone.
My wife occasionally still uses it for pain treatment, which helps.

As psychologists sometmies say, it tells us more about them than the targets
they chronically attack.

Confucius say: "One reap what one sow".

Sometimes, letting a few days go by without reading and/or replying to
RAO posts works wonders for me.

--
Sander deWaal
"SOA of a KT88? Sufficient."

The Devil said:

Is Daniel Day-Lewis still in acting, or did he join a circus, BTW?

He builds OTL amps with cognac bottles, last I heard.

Honestly, I have no idea who you're speaking about.

--
Sander deWaal
"SOA of a KT88? Sufficient."

Sander deWaal wrote:


(Bruce J. Richman) said:

I'll "fire up ole' Google" and see what I can come up with.
This may take a while though, and I fear the topic was flea power.

Just did this, but I've not yet found any kit that goes ebyond the SE
2A3 or PPEL84 type.
Would probably be hard anyway to beat the quality of your premier
series amp!
Tweaking the CJ isn't an option either, as far as I know it already
uses the most optimized components.
Maybe a change to KT90s may do something for you?
Seemed to work for that brat from Perfid Albion :-)


The CJ amplifier *is* an awfully nice-sounding, well-built piece of gear.
Actually, I *am* using KT-90's in it - Ei KT-90 Type 3's, and they do provide a
little more power than the Svetlana 6550C's I used to use. In thinking about
the situation a bit further, it has dawned on me that my speakers, while
working well, may well be in need of new panels. The panels in my Martin
Logans are at least 8 years old, and perhaps more, since I bought them used
about 8 years ago. So I would expect that new panels would be more efficient.
That said, I might just think about biting the bullet, and moving up from the
Premier 11 to a set of Premier 12 monoblocs, which have double the power - 140
watts/channel. Or, if I get lucky, maybe I'll come across a nice set of VTL
tube monsters at a non-monstrous price .

The other option, which I'm seriously considering, is to switch to Quads, which
in all likelihood would be significantly less power hungry (yes, I know,
current-hungry ). I owned a pair of original Quads for many years, and have
very fond memories of these wonderful speakers.




I appreciate the sentiments. It's been many years since I've even looked at
a
schematic, so I'd have to refresh my memory on how to read them.

Then there's the problem of a good manual and PCB........
I build my stuff on experimenter's boards, wiring it up the old way.
This is not for every one I'm afraid.

I think you're right.

Just got the same problem with a musicophyle friend of mine.
He wanted to build his own amp, so I gave him parts, a schematic, some
experimenter's boards etc.
Two days later he came back, asking how he should connect the heat
sink to the PCB........turned out he soldered the MOSFETS directly on
the PCB, without using a piece of stripline to put to the heatsink.
Also, he got the tube's connections backwards.
This guy is used to solid state (ICs), where the pinning is read from
above, where with tubes it is seen from the underside.
Sigh.
I'll build it for him now.

I'll spare you the same frustration :-)
It's probably not useful if I build you one, shipping it to the US
would cost an arm and a leg (weighs about 23 kgs).
Plus, it won't confirm to UL standards, so it'll probably won't even
enter US soil.......:-)

I recall the Moscodes, but haven't seen one for sale in years. But then
again,
I haven't been looking at eBay or Audiogon *that* closely. While not
pretending to know much about SS parts, I *have* heard it said that MOSFETS
used in certain amplifiers have more of a tube-like sound than other types
of
transistors. Is this generally true, or does it depend on where they are
used?

There are many factors accountable for the "sound" of an amplifier, or
any audio component in general.
The component itzelf, the properties of a given type, the way it is
used in the circuit, the way it is driven, the quality of the power
supply, the build quality, etc etc etc. Tens, maybe hundreds of
variables, and they all combined must give a certain result.
BJTs can sound "tube-like", if that means that an extremely high
amount of second harmonics is present in the output signal.
All one needs to do is to unbalance the input differentail stage.
One could use a device called "Aural Exciter" to obtain the same and
probably even better result.
If "tube-character"means a low damping factor, and a high dependance
on speaker properties, just connect a 0.5 or 1 ohm resistor in series
with the output and make sure the global feedback is taken before that
point. Voila, the "soft sound", depending highly on room and speaker
properties. Do we want that? I don't !

The tale that MOSFETs would sound tube-like (what's that, anyway?)
probably stems from the fact that both elements are voltage driven
instead of power driven like BJTs.
It is true though that the transfer characteristics ("input vs.
output) are somewhat quadratic in nature, while BJTs have an
exponential characteristic.
When looking at transfer characteristics from tubes, there are
differences betwen triodes and beam tetrodes or pentodes.
The latter are steeper, have a higher amplification factor, but are
less linear than triodes. And that's only ONE factor to keep into
consideration.


In thinking about how I would define tube-like sound, a reasonable question
which you raise, the best I can come up with is a sense of more body to
instruments and vocalists on many recordings, and most important, a lack of
"edginess" or "hardness" in the upper frequencies which, I find, is
characteristic of some SS gear.



There's another solid state component, the IGBT (Insulated Gate
Bipolar Transistor) that seems to combine the best of 2 worlds.
I still have to look into that. A day should have 300 hours!


While my memory may be a little off on this, I seem to recall that many of the
old Counterpoint hybrid power amplifiers used thse IGBT's. While it's strictly
one person's opinion, at least one prominent website that I've seen suggests
the use of hybrid Counterpoint hybrids amplifiers with electrostatics like the
Martin Logan CLS IIs. As you probably know, Counterpoint is no longer in
business, however, so service issues might be a problem. (The former owner,
however, does extensive mods to old Counterpoint amplifiers, inserting more
modern parts, etc.).



As an aside, I'd like to know what's my car's outboard power amplifier, an
Audio Arts 4-channel job which I use to drive 4 matched sets of MB Quart
speakers. While the speakers are relatively high quality for a mobile
system
(I do a lot of driving so it's worth it to me), and the head end is SOTA for
a
cassette player (a Nakimichi TD-1200 Type 2 Mobile Dragon I scored on eBay
from
an engineer who collects Nakamichi gear), the amplifier in combination with
this stuff sounds very clean without any traces of hardness, thinness or
brightness that I can discern.
(Of course it might be also somewhat due to the fact that I'm listening to
analog media - Maxell tape cassettes encoded with Dolby C by a Nakamichi
deck
that is making the difference).

I don't know enough about car audio to answer that question, but I
suspect that speaker quality, enclosure (as far as that goes into
doors and boots) and acoustics are among the most important factors to
get good sound in the car.
Probably Tom Nousaine would be the man to ask, he's pretty well know
about this subject if I recall correctly.


I suspect you're right. The speakers I'm using, MB Quart component sets are
definitely not your average car speakers. They are probably superior in build
quality and sound to those found in many bookshelf speakers. My car is large,
so I'm able to use 6.50" woofer/midranges with 1.25" titanium dome tweeters and
separate crossovers in relatively (for a car) large spaces. And the Nakamichi
Dragon head unit is really in a class by itself (IMHO) - a two chassis affair
in which there is one box just for the electronics, and the other for the
transport devices, which include automatic azimuth corrections on the fly when
the tape reverses. Fortunately, I have complete documentation as well as
service manuals for it, and got it from an experience Nakamichi collector and
electronics engineer who knew what he was doing.





It's a good excuse to visit Florida during the winter. And of course,
Jamaica is not too far away, if you run out of ...........
well, you know

Umm......I suspect that Amsterdam offers a more diverse program :-)

Yahh, Maaahn ! Dutch Rastafarians ?


Besides, the days that I used pot almost daily are long gone.
My wife occasionally still uses it for pain treatment, which helps.

As psychologists sometmies say, it tells us more about them than the targets
they chronically attack.

Confucius say: "One reap what one sow".


Prove it!


Sometimes, letting a few days go by without reading and/or replying to
RAO posts works wonders for me.

--

I know what you mean. Sort of like getting sanitized and refreshened.




Sander deWaal
"SOA of a KT88? Sufficient."










Bruce J. Richman

The Devil said:

On a brighter note, the best film I've seen this year is *Spirited
Away*. The best piece of anime I've seen in quite some time. Gorgeous
animation, magical (if bonkers at times) story, and genuinely moving
in places. In other words: Perfect! :-)

Films? That requires an attention span of at least 2 hours, which I
don't have.
Each 10 minutes, I have to ask my wife what happened while I dozed
off. Now that she's in hospital, I think I'll ditch the TV altogether.
I'll bury it in the garden with the neck of the tube sticking out as a
sign of respect.

Funny thing is, I got some 6BX7s in the mail this week, and when
fooling around with them, my attention span seems to be stretched to
10 hours or more.

I need an honest medical opinion on this. Bruce?

--
Sander deWaal
"SOA of a KT88? Sufficient."

(Bruce J. Richman) said:

The CJ amplifier *is* an awfully nice-sounding, well-built piece of gear.
Actually, I *am* using KT-90's in it - Ei KT-90 Type 3's, and they do provide a
little more power than the Svetlana 6550C's I used to use. In thinking about
the situation a bit further, it has dawned on me that my speakers, while
working well, may well be in need of new panels. The panels in my Martin
Logans are at least 8 years old, and perhaps more, since I bought them used
about 8 years ago. So I would expect that new panels would be more efficient.
That said, I might just think about biting the bullet, and moving up from the
Premier 11 to a set of Premier 12 monoblocs, which have double the power - 140
watts/channel. Or, if I get lucky, maybe I'll come across a nice set of VTL
tube monsters at a non-monstrous price .

The other option, which I'm seriously considering, is to switch to Quads, which
in all likelihood would be significantly less power hungry (yes, I know,
current-hungry ). I owned a pair of original Quads for many years, and have
very fond memories of these wonderful speakers.

It is said the ESL63 and newer versions like the 989 are much easier
to drive than the old ESL57.
I would seriously consider the purchase of a set of Quads, or even a
panel change on your MLs, before switching to another amplifier.
I doubt the subjective quality of your premier 11s can be bettered by
the 12s, at least not on the MLs.
This is just a gut feeling I have, nothing to substantiate that claim
on though.
But if "70 watts in 8 ohms" from a well-respected tube amp aren't
getting the max out of your speakers, the 140 of the 12s aren't going
to do much more in your situation.

In thinking about how I would define tube-like sound, a reasonable question
which you raise, the best I can come up with is a sense of more body to
instruments and vocalists on many recordings, and most important, a lack of
"edginess" or "hardness" in the upper frequencies which, I find, is
characteristic of some SS gear.

I've heard tube amps screeching and burning my ears off, and I've
heard Densen Beat solid state amps giving sweet and soft mid and high
response.
I think you'll have to overlook the single component matter and see
things in a more broad perspective.
Keep the CJ preamp.
Try different kinds of amplifiers, whether solid state, all tube or
hybrid.
But first, select a speaker you desire, or have your MLs fixed.

Most important thing: get to learn the character of your (repaired or
newly-bought) speaker with the components you already have.
Take your time. Move the speakers around, move the furniture.
I think you'll find that a panel change or a set of Quads will alter
your perspective, and will completely satisfy you with the performance
of your current CJ Premier 11.
I've seen so in my crystal ball (actually 300B XLS Blue glass version
by KR ) :-)

Anyway, don't change too many things at a time.
Just one by one, and take your time betwen changes.

While my memory may be a little off on this, I seem to recall that many of the
old Counterpoint hybrid power amplifiers used thse IGBT's. While it's strictly
one person's opinion, at least one prominent website that I've seen suggests
the use of hybrid Counterpoint hybrids amplifiers with electrostatics like the
Martin Logan CLS IIs. As you probably know, Counterpoint is no longer in
business, however, so service issues might be a problem. (The former owner,
however, does extensive mods to old Counterpoint amplifiers, inserting more
modern parts, etc.).

While that argument may be important to you and most other people, I
don't care whether a manufacturer is still in business or not.
I'll always find a way to get my parts, and mostly, better parts :-)

I suspect you're right. The speakers I'm using, MB Quart component sets are
definitely not your average car speakers. They are probably superior in build
quality and sound to those found in many bookshelf speakers. My car is large,
so I'm able to use 6.50" woofer/midranges with 1.25" titanium dome tweeters and
separate crossovers in relatively (for a car) large spaces. And the Nakamichi
Dragon head unit is really in a class by itself (IMHO) - a two chassis affair
in which there is one box just for the electronics, and the other for the
transport devices, which include automatic azimuth corrections on the fly when
the tape reverses. Fortunately, I have complete documentation as well as
service manuals for it, and got it from an experience Nakamichi collector and
electronics engineer who knew what he was doing.

Nak is good. I changed to CD in the car years ago, because of the
inevitable wow and flutter of cassettedecks.
This has to do with my car of choice.
The head unit is placed between the front seats, vertically.
Two reverse spinning flywheels are not going to correct for applied
G-forces in the horizontal plane ;-)

Umm......I suspect that Amsterdam offers a more diverse program :-)

Yahh, Maaahn ! Dutch Rastafarians ?

We have probably more people from Suriname (Dutch Guyana) and the
Dutch Antilles living in Amsterdam than that are actually living in
that country.
Besides some problems, we're blessed with good food, liquids, music
and other materials that shall remain unnamed :-)

Confucius say: "One reap what one sow".

Prove it!

Confucius say: "Proof of pudding is not in eating, but in purging
afterwards".

--
Sander deWaal
"SOA of a KT88? Sufficient."

Sander de Waal wrote:


(Bruce J. Richman) said:

The CJ amplifier *is* an awfully nice-sounding, well-built piece of gear.
Actually, I *am* using KT-90's in it - Ei KT-90 Type 3's, and they do
provide a
little more power than the Svetlana 6550C's I used to use. In thinking
about
the situation a bit further, it has dawned on me that my speakers, while
working well, may well be in need of new panels. The panels in my Martin
Logans are at least 8 years old, and perhaps more, since I bought them used
about 8 years ago. So I would expect that new panels would be more
efficient.
That said, I might just think about biting the bullet, and moving up from
the
Premier 11 to a set of Premier 12 monoblocs, which have double the power -
140
watts/channel. Or, if I get lucky, maybe I'll come across a nice set of
VTL
tube monsters at a non-monstrous price .

The other option, which I'm seriously considering, is to switch to Quads,
which
in all likelihood would be significantly less power hungry (yes, I know,
current-hungry ). I owned a pair of original Quads for many years, and
have
very fond memories of these wonderful speakers.

It is said the ESL63 and newer versions like the 989 are much easier
to drive than the old ESL57.
I would seriously consider the purchase of a set of Quads, or even a
panel change on your MLs, before switching to another amplifier.
I doubt the subjective quality of your premier 11s can be bettered by
the 12s, at least not on the MLs.
This is just a gut feeling I have, nothing to substantiate that claim
on though.
But if "70 watts in 8 ohms" from a well-respected tube amp aren't
getting the max out of your speakers, the 140 of the 12s aren't going
to do much more in your situation.

In thinking about how I would define tube-like sound, a reasonable question
which you raise, the best I can come up with is a sense of more body to
instruments and vocalists on many recordings, and most important, a lack of
"edginess" or "hardness" in the upper frequencies which, I find, is
characteristic of some SS gear.

I've heard tube amps screeching and burning my ears off, and I've
heard Densen Beat solid state amps giving sweet and soft mid and high
response.
I think you'll have to overlook the single component matter and see
things in a more broad perspective.
Keep the CJ preamp.
Try different kinds of amplifiers, whether solid state, all tube or
hybrid.
But first, select a speaker you desire, or have your MLs fixed.

Most important thing: get to learn the character of your (repaired or
newly-bought) speaker with the components you already have.
Take your time. Move the speakers around, move the furniture.
I think you'll find that a panel change or a set of Quads will alter
your perspective, and will completely satisfy you with the performance
of your current CJ Premier 11.
I've seen so in my crystal ball (actually 300B XLS Blue glass version
by KR ) :-)

Anyway, don't change too many things at a time.
Just one by one, and take your time betwen changes.


I've never made radical changes in my audio system. I've always taken a
cautious, hopefully well-researched approach. And will definitely not do
anything too quickly or drastically this time around. Actually, with a few
exceptions, the ML electrostatics work quite well, volume-wise, and for some
reason, this is especially true on CD's, even though I use a high-gain Grado MM
cartridge. I suspect that the internal phono stage in my CJ preamplifier may
hav something to do with this. While of very high quality in terms of
tonality, soundstaging, etc., it is not a particularly high gain phono stage
compared to many others I've seen. But this is just conjecture on my part.





While my memory may be a little off on this, I seem to recall that many of
the
old Counterpoint hybrid power amplifiers used thse IGBT's. While it's
strictly
one person's opinion, at least one prominent website that I've seen suggests
the use of hybrid Counterpoint hybrids amplifiers with electrostatics like
the
Martin Logan CLS IIs. As you probably know, Counterpoint is no longer in
business, however, so service issues might be a problem. (The former owner,
however, does extensive mods to old Counterpoint amplifiers, inserting more
modern parts, etc.).

While that argument may be important to you and most other people, I
don't care whether a manufacturer is still in business or not.
I'll always find a way to get my parts, and mostly, better parts :-)

I suspect you're right. The speakers I'm using, MB Quart component sets are
definitely not your average car speakers. They are probably superior in
build
quality and sound to those found in many bookshelf speakers. My car is
large,
so I'm able to use 6.50" woofer/midranges with 1.25" titanium dome tweeters
and
separate crossovers in relatively (for a car) large spaces. And the
Nakamichi
Dragon head unit is really in a class by itself (IMHO) - a two chassis
affair
in which there is one box just for the electronics, and the other for the
transport devices, which include automatic azimuth corrections on the fly
when
the tape reverses. Fortunately, I have complete documentation as well as
service manuals for it, and got it from an experience Nakamichi collector
and
electronics engineer who knew what he was doing.

Nak is good. I changed to CD in the car years ago, because of the
inevitable wow and flutter of cassettedecks.
This has to do with my car of choice.
The head unit is placed between the front seats, vertically.
Two reverse spinning flywheels are not going to correct for applied
G-forces in the horizontal plane ;-)

Umm......I suspect that Amsterdam offers a more diverse program :-)

Yahh, Maaahn ! Dutch Rastafarians ?

We have probably more people from Suriname (Dutch Guyana) and the
Dutch Antilles living in Amsterdam than that are actually living in
that country.
Besides some problems, we're blessed with good food, liquids, music
and other materials that shall remain unnamed :-)

Confucius say: "One reap what one sow".

Prove it!

Confucius say: "Proof of pudding is not in eating, but in purging
afterwards".

--
Sander deWaal
"SOA of a KT88? Sufficient."







Recalling that you had mentioned hybrid amplifiers as a possibility, I recently
saw one of these CJ beasts on Audiogon. Apparently, in its day, it was rated
very highly by Stereophile and other reviewers.
While I realize this is CJ's own hype, take a look and let me know what you
think, if you feel like it, from an engineering point of view. (I've never
heard this particular model so have no opinions thus far).

http://www.conradjohnson.com/It_just.../a-ev2000.html




Bruce J. Richman