Any idea who makes the equivalent of the old small Beyer transformers.
The size of the ones on the Studer A80 rep amp.
Sowter, OEP, etc. don't seem to make them that small. It's for a mic
amp

I'm not interested in the NOS stuff.

thanks


martin

Hello Martin,
Beyerdynamic still manufactures transformers. They have even a complete
printed catalogue, but no indication on theitr website. Try to contct
them he
http://www.beyerdynamic.de/cms/Kontakt.165.0.html?=&L=1
br


martin griffith wrote:
Any idea who makes the equivalent of the old small Beyer transformers.
The size of the ones on the Studer A80 rep amp.
Sowter, OEP, etc. don't seem to make them that small. It's for a mic
amp

I'm not interested in the NOS stuff.

thanks


martin

On Tue, 23 May 2006 14:52:36 +0200, in rec.audio.pro Reiner "Reiner
wrote:

Hello Martin,
Beyerdynamic still manufactures transformers. They have even a complete
printed catalogue, but no indication on theitr website. Try to contct
them he
http://www.beyerdynamic.de/cms/Kontakt.165.0.html?=&L=1
br


martin griffith wrote:
Any idea who makes the equivalent of the old small Beyer transformers.
The size of the ones on the Studer A80 rep amp.
Sowter, OEP, etc. don't seem to make them that small. It's for a mic
amp

I'm not interested in the NOS stuff.

thanks


martin
Many thanks for that infomation


martin

On 23 May 2006 09:59:23 -0400, in rec.audio.pro
(Scott Dorsey) wrote:

martin griffith wrote:
Any idea who makes the equivalent of the old small Beyer transformers.
The size of the ones on the Studer A80 rep amp.
Sowter, OEP, etc. don't seem to make them that small. It's for a mic
amp

I'd look at the Tamura line. Their sub-ouncer-size transformers in the
epoxy cases are even usable if you keep to low ratio ones and keep the
levels down.

I'd also look at the Lundahls. I think the Lundahls are a little bit on
the large side in most cases, but if you can make it fit, the additional
iron means better low end at high levels.

I'm not interested in the NOS stuff.

Not even if somoene has a junkbox full of those awful Beyer things to give
away?
--scott
I havent used those beyers in over 20 years, but I can't remember how
good or bad they where. I can remember trying to figure out the
datasheet was a nightmare


martin

martin griffith wrote:
On 23 May 2006 09:59:23 -0400, in rec.audio.pro
(Scott Dorsey) wrote:

Not even if somoene has a junkbox full of those awful Beyer things to give
away?

I havent used those beyers in over 20 years, but I can't remember how
good or bad they where. I can remember trying to figure out the
datasheet was a nightmare

The problem is they have so little iron in them that the low end response
is poor even at low levels, and the windings are comparatively high resistance.

I replaced the 1:5 step-up transformers on the playback amp front end of
an Ampex 440B with the Lundahl equivalents, which were a little bigger and
had to be mounted on vertical daughterboards. But the drop in noise floor
was just phenomenal. I even measured better low end response, which
surprised me since I assumed the heads would be the main issue.

The first thing we used to do on the Ampex mixers was replace those Beyers
with larger UTCs. Much better low end.

Beyer still makes most of that line, but they're expensive today, and they
still aren't very good. I think the 600:600 transformers that Neutrik is
selling are rebadged Bauers.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"martin griffith" wrote in message
...
Any idea who makes the equivalent of the old small Beyer transformers.
The size of the ones on the Studer A80 rep amp.


Were the transformers in the Studer tape machines made by Beyer?

Predrag

On 23 May 2006 10:19:24 -0400, in rec.audio.pro
(Scott Dorsey) wrote:

martin griffith wrote:
On 23 May 2006 09:59:23 -0400, in rec.audio.pro
(Scott Dorsey) wrote:

Not even if somoene has a junkbox full of those awful Beyer things to give
away?

I havent used those beyers in over 20 years, but I can't remember how
good or bad they where. I can remember trying to figure out the
datasheet was a nightmare

The problem is they have so little iron in them that the low end response
is poor even at low levels, and the windings are comparatively high resistance.

I replaced the 1:5 step-up transformers on the playback amp front end of
an Ampex 440B with the Lundahl equivalents, which were a little bigger and
had to be mounted on vertical daughterboards. But the drop in noise floor
was just phenomenal. I even measured better low end response, which
surprised me since I assumed the heads would be the main issue.

The first thing we used to do on the Ampex mixers was replace those Beyers
with larger UTCs. Much better low end.

Beyer still makes most of that line, but they're expensive today, and they
still aren't very good. I think the 600:600 transformers that Neutrik is
selling are rebadged Bauers.
--scott
OK Scott, you win, I'll look for alternatives, its just to take a mic
and match it better to a NE5532. But size is important as I'm running
out of space, and I dont want to use a discrete input in this
particular case.


martin

On Tue, 23 May 2006 19:33:05 +0200, in rec.audio.pro "Predrag Trpkov"
wrote:


"martin griffith" wrote in message
.. .
Any idea who makes the equivalent of the old small Beyer transformers.
The size of the ones on the Studer A80 rep amp.


Were the transformers in the Studer tape machines made by Beyer?

Predrag

The replay amp had little beyers as a front end on the A80VU not the
RC version. I think that the o/p transformers may be in-house


martin

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
martin griffith wrote:

OK Scott, you win, I'll look for alternatives, its just to take a mic
and match it better to a NE5532. But size is important as I'm running
out of space, and I dont want to use a discrete input in this
particular case.

If you're wanting an ideal match for a 5532, you need about a 1:7
transformer. Jensen's 1:5 is genuinely excellent, bigger than the Beyer but
way, way better-sounding.

Peace,
Paul

On Tue, 23 May 2006 18:55:42 GMT, in rec.audio.pro "Paul Stamler"
wrote:

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
martin griffith wrote:

OK Scott, you win, I'll look for alternatives, its just to take a mic
and match it better to a NE5532. But size is important as I'm running
out of space, and I dont want to use a discrete input in this
particular case.

If you're wanting an ideal match for a 5532, you need about a 1:7
transformer. Jensen's 1:5 is genuinely excellent, bigger than the Beyer but
way, way better-sounding.

Peace,
Paul

I thought it was less than 1:7 for a 5532, I'll dig out the datasheet,
work out the noise formula stuff. I'll probably go for a COTS from
sowter, which are more easily available here


martin

"martin griffith" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 23 May 2006 18:55:42 GMT, in rec.audio.pro "Paul Stamler"
wrote:

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
martin griffith wrote:

OK Scott, you win, I'll look for alternatives, its just to take a mic
and match it better to a NE5532. But size is important as I'm running
out of space, and I dont want to use a discrete input in this
particular case.

If you're wanting an ideal match for a 5532, you need about a 1:7
transformer. Jensen's 1:5 is genuinely excellent, bigger than the Beyer
but
way, way better-sounding.

I thought it was less than 1:7 for a 5532, I'll dig out the datasheet,
work out the noise formula stuff. I'll probably go for a COTS from
sowter, which are more easily available here

Typically you'd divide noise voltage density by noise current density to get
ideal source impedance. Those numbers are 5nV/rtHz and 0.7pA/rtHz
respectively, so you get about 7143 ohms ideal source Z. Assuming a 150-ohm
primary, this works out to a 1:6.9 transformer. The numbers are different
for a 5534a, but the ratio comes out about the same (1:6.83).

Peace,
Paul

"Scott Dorsey" wrote ...
The higher the ratio, the harder it is to make the transformer. So if
all you want is a 1:1 transformer and you don't care about voltage gain,
use one of the $12 Tamura epoxy-potted ones. Digi-Key stocks them. It
is easy to make a 1:1 transformer.

DK shows the MET-46 (600:600) @ $12.17
and the MET-32 (600:600CT) @ $11.97

Are you saying that one of them (which?) has halfway decent
freq resp, distortion, etc. @ low levels? (-10dB?)

DK also shows these other 600:600 variations in stock at
prices from $1.50 to $14.63: MET-31, TTC-218, TTC-105,
TTC-108, MET-59

On Tue, 23 May 2006 21:48:54 GMT, in rec.audio.pro "Paul Stamler"
wrote:

"martin griffith" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 23 May 2006 18:55:42 GMT, in rec.audio.pro "Paul Stamler"
wrote:

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
martin griffith wrote:

OK Scott, you win, I'll look for alternatives, its just to take a mic
and match it better to a NE5532. But size is important as I'm running
out of space, and I dont want to use a discrete input in this
particular case.

If you're wanting an ideal match for a 5532, you need about a 1:7
transformer. Jensen's 1:5 is genuinely excellent, bigger than the Beyer
but
way, way better-sounding.

I thought it was less than 1:7 for a 5532, I'll dig out the datasheet,
work out the noise formula stuff. I'll probably go for a COTS from
sowter, which are more easily available here

Typically you'd divide noise voltage density by noise current density to get
ideal source impedance. Those numbers are 5nV/rtHz and 0.7pA/rtHz
respectively, so you get about 7143 ohms ideal source Z. Assuming a 150-ohm
primary, this works out to a 1:6.9 transformer. The numbers are different
for a 5534a, but the ratio comes out about the same (1:6.83).

Peace,
Paul

Did the ohms law stuff as well :-) I will probably go for a lesser
ratio, more chance to play around with different loading R's etc.


martin

Richard Crowley wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote ...
The higher the ratio, the harder it is to make the transformer. So if
all you want is a 1:1 transformer and you don't care about voltage gain,
use one of the $12 Tamura epoxy-potted ones. Digi-Key stocks them. It
is easy to make a 1:1 transformer.

DK shows the MET-46 (600:600) @ $12.17
and the MET-32 (600:600CT) @ $11.97

Are you saying that one of them (which?) has halfway decent
freq resp, distortion, etc. @ low levels? (-10dB?)

They are basically the same thing. At microphone levels, they aren't
all that bad. They are noisy because of the high resistance, and you
can saturate them with a lot of low end, but if you keep the levels low
the frequency response is not bad.

You must be VERY careful about proper termination. They will ring like
mad with anything but a 600 ohm load. This makes them unusable as output
transformers for commercial products. I have used them as input transformers
for my reamplification box project and they do well.

DK also shows these other 600:600 variations in stock at
prices from $1.50 to $14.63: MET-31, TTC-218, TTC-105,
TTC-108, MET-59

Only one of these I have used is the MET-59.

Tamura also makes a series of larger transformers, the Microtran series.
They are much, much better transformers, but also a lot more money and
physically larger.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."