I will be recording in public places where, in many cases, the street
performer, or "busker", as they are sometimes called, may be seated with his
back to a masonry or tile wall. According to theory, this should cause major
comb filtering problems, although I do not know whether the result will be
unpleasant.

One way to avoid this comb filtering would be to use a stereo boundary mike
placed on the floor or sidewalk. A ray trace diagram suggests that above 1K,
with this arrangement, the mike could be positioned to pick up considerably
less early reflection than a standard single-point stereo mike.

What are the more reasonable offerings of stereo boundary mikes that are
suitable for recording music?

Due to the rumblings of the infrastructure, the mike would have to be placed
on a foam pad. Would this impact mike performance?

"Robert Morein" wrote in
:

I will be recording in public places where, in many cases, the street
performer, or "busker", as they are sometimes called, may be seated
with his back to a masonry or tile wall. According to theory, this
should cause major comb filtering problems, although I do not know
whether the result will be unpleasant.

One way to avoid this comb filtering would be to use a stereo boundary
mike placed on the floor or sidewalk. A ray trace diagram suggests
that above 1K, with this arrangement, the mike could be positioned to
pick up considerably less early reflection than a standard
single-point stereo mike.

What are the more reasonable offerings of stereo boundary mikes that
are suitable for recording music?

Due to the rumblings of the infrastructure, the mike would have to be
placed on a foam pad. Would this impact mike performance?

In an outdoor environment, the combing effect of a wall behind the
performer will be inaudible. Get a good omni and have at it.

Hi,
You can take a look at this:
http://www.crownaudio.com/pdf/mics/101062.pdf
F.

Federico wrote:
Hi,
You can take a look at this:
http://www.crownaudio.com/pdf/mics/101062.pdf

This is pretty marketing-heavy. The PZM is occasionally a useful thing to have
in the bag, and it can be a cure for slap echo for things like conference
tables, but for the most part it tends to do more harm than good.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey wrote:
Federico wrote:

Hi,
You can take a look at this:
http://www.crownaudio.com/pdf/mics/101062.pdf

This is pretty marketing-heavy. The PZM is occasionally a useful thing to have
in the bag, and it can be a cure for slap echo for things like conference
tables, but for the most part it tends to do more harm than good.

Not if you leave it in the bag.


//Walt

On Thu, 18 May 2006 12:41:10 -0400, in
rec.arts.movies.production.sound "Robert Morein"
wrote:

I will be recording in public places where, in many cases, the street
performer, or "busker", as they are sometimes called, may be seated with his
back to a masonry or tile wall. According to theory, this should cause major
comb filtering problems, although I do not know whether the result will be
unpleasant.

One way to avoid this comb filtering would be to use a stereo boundary mike
placed on the floor or sidewalk. A ray trace diagram suggests that above 1K,
with this arrangement, the mike could be positioned to pick up considerably
less early reflection than a standard single-point stereo mike.

What are the more reasonable offerings of stereo boundary mikes that are
suitable for recording music?

Due to the rumblings of the infrastructure, the mike would have to be placed
on a foam pad. Would this impact mike performance?

Hmmm, why dont you just go out with a couple of mics, with a
"busker",record something, and see what happens. listen to the
recordings, then try again, and see what works

Theory is fine, but you need to mix it with practice


martin

I just want to point out that a directional (cardioid) bonduary mic (the
PCC160 is not actually a PZM) can be more effective than a semi-omni (half
sphere).
For on-the-street buskers I'd place the microphones on the curb right in
front of the players... something closer to an XY or maybe you can
experiment with an AB too....
F.

"martin griffith" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 18 May 2006 12:41:10 -0400, in
rec.arts.movies.production.sound "Robert Morein"
wrote:

I will be recording in public places where, in many cases, the street
performer, or "busker", as they are sometimes called, may be seated with
his
back to a masonry or tile wall. According to theory, this should cause
major
comb filtering problems, although I do not know whether the result will be
unpleasant.

One way to avoid this comb filtering would be to use a stereo boundary
mike
placed on the floor or sidewalk. A ray trace diagram suggests that above
1K,
with this arrangement, the mike could be positioned to pick up
considerably
less early reflection than a standard single-point stereo mike.

What are the more reasonable offerings of stereo boundary mikes that are
suitable for recording music?

Due to the rumblings of the infrastructure, the mike would have to be
placed
on a foam pad. Would this impact mike performance?

Hmmm, why dont you just go out with a couple of mics, with a
"busker",record something, and see what happens. listen to the
recordings, then try again, and see what works

Theory is fine, but you need to mix it with practice

I don't have the mikes.
martin

"Federico" wrote in message
...

I just want to point out that a directional (cardioid) bonduary mic (the
PCC160 is not actually a PZM) can be more effective than a semi-omni (half
sphere).
For on-the-street buskers I'd place the microphones on the curb right in
front of the players... something closer to an XY or maybe you can
experiment with an AB too....
F.
You are speaking here of boundary mikes?

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

"martin griffith" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 18 May 2006 12:41:10 -0400, in
rec.arts.movies.production.sound "Robert Morein"
wrote:

I will be recording in public places where, in many cases, the street
performer, or "busker", as they are sometimes called, may be seated with
his
back to a masonry or tile wall. According to theory, this should cause
major
comb filtering problems, although I do not know whether the result will
be
unpleasant.

One way to avoid this comb filtering would be to use a stereo boundary
mike
placed on the floor or sidewalk. A ray trace diagram suggests that above
1K,
with this arrangement, the mike could be positioned to pick up
considerably
less early reflection than a standard single-point stereo mike.

What are the more reasonable offerings of stereo boundary mikes that are
suitable for recording music?

Due to the rumblings of the infrastructure, the mike would have to be
placed
on a foam pad. Would this impact mike performance?

Hmmm, why dont you just go out with a couple of mics, with a
"busker",record something, and see what happens. listen to the
recordings, then try again, and see what works

Theory is fine, but you need to mix it with practice

I don't have the mikes.
martin


Martin, i have a small pile of boundary mics which i use as the need arises.
a Crown PZM did a wonderful job for me picking up bagpipes... but then i'm
coming to the conclusion that anything will work with bagpipes .

you need to think first of the most prominent problems you will encounter
before worrying about secondary problems. your biggest enemy will be wind
noise and crowd noise.

i find that optimal placement is in front and/or above the audience. usually
i use a pair of Rode nt-5 on a spreader bar on a mic stand with a boom at
full extension. on a moderately windy day it takes a couple of windscreens
on each mic.

with a PZM or PCC, unless you are standing there guarding it you get people
walking on it, standing on it and talking, drinks poured in it, and just
about anything else that is undesirable and irritating.

Federico wrote:
I just want to point out that a directional (cardioid) bonduary mic (the
PCC160 is not actually a PZM) can be more effective than a semi-omni (half
sphere).

Yes.

For on-the-street buskers I'd place the microphones on the curb right in
front of the players... something closer to an XY or maybe you can
experiment with an AB too....

If I had to record buskers, I'd use a mono omni mike and I'd place it so the
balances were right. Just getting guitar/vocal balances or even worse
drum/vocal balances is the real struggle since I'd imagine most of these
guys aren't so well balanced to begin with.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On Thu, 18 May 2006 12:50:50 -0400, Carey Carlan wrote
(in article ):

"Robert Morein" wrote in
:

I will be recording in public places where, in many cases, the street
performer, or "busker", as they are sometimes called, may be seated
with his back to a masonry or tile wall. According to theory, this
should cause major comb filtering problems, although I do not know
whether the result will be unpleasant.

One way to avoid this comb filtering would be to use a stereo boundary
mike placed on the floor or sidewalk. A ray trace diagram suggests
that above 1K, with this arrangement, the mike could be positioned to
pick up considerably less early reflection than a standard
single-point stereo mike.

What are the more reasonable offerings of stereo boundary mikes that
are suitable for recording music?

Due to the rumblings of the infrastructure, the mike would have to be
placed on a foam pad. Would this impact mike performance?

In an outdoor environment, the combing effect of a wall behind the
performer will be inaudible. Get a good omni and have at it.

Maybe, but I've been in some situations in which a nearby wall, sign, window
or something else has created a reflection that's pretty unflattering. You
really don't know until you get there.

And with omnis, unless you get real close, there's the rest of the street
noise. Maybe a PZM mounted on a board that can be adjusted and aimed at the
talent. Even 18" x 18" (maybe covered in felt on the mic side) might knock
down some of the street noise.

Regards,

Ty Ford


-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com

In article , Ty Ford wrote:
On Thu, 18 May 2006 12:50:50 -0400, Carey Carlan wrote
(in article ):

"Robert Morein" wrote in
:

I will be recording in public places where, in many cases, the street
performer, or "busker", as they are sometimes called, may be seated
with his back to a masonry or tile wall. According to theory, this
should cause major comb filtering problems, although I do not know
whether the result will be unpleasant.

One way to avoid this comb filtering would be to use a stereo boundary
mike placed on the floor or sidewalk. A ray trace diagram suggests
that above 1K, with this arrangement, the mike could be positioned to
pick up considerably less early reflection than a standard
single-point stereo mike.

What are the more reasonable offerings of stereo boundary mikes that
are suitable for recording music?

Due to the rumblings of the infrastructure, the mike would have to be
placed on a foam pad. Would this impact mike performance?

In an outdoor environment, the combing effect of a wall behind the
performer will be inaudible. Get a good omni and have at it.

Maybe, but I've been in some situations in which a nearby wall, sign, window
or something else has created a reflection that's pretty unflattering. You
really don't know until you get there.

And with omnis, unless you get real close, there's the rest of the street
noise. Maybe a PZM mounted on a board that can be adjusted and aimed at the
talent. Even 18" x 18" (maybe covered in felt on the mic side) might knock
down some of the street noise.

I sure many have seen PZM's mounted on a large clear Plexiglass sheet.

greg

Ty Ford wrote in
:

And with omnis, unless you get real close, there's the rest of the
street noise. Maybe a PZM mounted on a board that can be adjusted and
aimed at the talent. Even 18" x 18" (maybe covered in felt on the mic
side) might knock down some of the street noise.

That's the greatest advantage of omnis. You can get real close. The
inverse square law is the best noise rejection scheme available, plus you
get a very realistic sound. Directional microphones in a noisy environment
are great for spoken word, but the more directional the mic, the more
aberrations you hear--bad things for music recording. And I don't count
PZM's on any size board as a good directional microphone.

TimPerry wrote:

Martin, i have a small pile of boundary mics which i use as the need arises.
a Crown PZM did a wonderful job for me picking up bagpipes... but then i'm
coming to the conclusion that anything will work with bagpipes .

[...]

You mean piper-wise or mic-wise?

Jez

wrote in message
oups.com...

TimPerry wrote:

Martin, i have a small pile of boundary mics which i use as the need
arises.
a Crown PZM did a wonderful job for me picking up bagpipes... but then
i'm
coming to the conclusion that anything will work with bagpipes .

[...]

You mean piper-wise or mic-wise?

Jez


....well, we were discussing microphones.

these pipers were police officers who had been standing bare legged in the
freezing cold for hours. if they wanted to play the kazoo or the comb it
would be OK with me.

"TimPerry" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...

TimPerry wrote:

Martin, i have a small pile of boundary mics which i use as the need
arises.
a Crown PZM did a wonderful job for me picking up bagpipes... but then
i'm
coming to the conclusion that anything will work with bagpipes .

I use PZMs any time they're suitable to the task. Not only do they reduce
early reflection problems, but they also increase the sensitivity of the
mike by 6db, relative to open air mikes. You can think of it as reducing
self-noise by 6db. They also don't call attention to themselves. I was
asked to record a funeral service solely because my PZMs were less obtrusive
than the PA mikes.

Norm Strong