Hello,
I am a songwriter and I have in the past joined companies like Taxi to
try and get my music into the industry. However, sometimes I don't know
what to think about these sites. A big problem I have with Taxi is when
they criticize you for doing something in your songs, when it's the exact
same type of thing that record labels are putting on the radio! It's almost
like you can't win! I have a hard time paying $300 a year to a site that
constantly does this. I actually did have one song forwarded to a record
label (so Taxi says) but nothing ever came of it. Is there really any
avenues these days, or is the job of songwriters pretty much long gone?
Seems like the only music we get to hear these days is the crap that artists
try to do themselves, and most of the time it really is crap. What do you
all think?

--

Phillip S.
~Pilot, Aircraft Dispatcher, and Audio Newbie Extraordinaire!

So what is one to do? Record companies won't take unsolicited
material.....what can a songwriter realistically do?



"David Morgan (MAMS)" wrote in message
news:CeqPf.6709$G%2.91@trnddc07...

"Phillip" wrote in message...

A big problem I have with Taxi is...

snip

I have a hard time paying $300 a year



Phillip... this one should be easy to Google. It's been beaten up
around here almost as badly as Taxi has. IMHO, it's one of the
most successful (read=profitable) con-jobs of the past ten years.

http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search


--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s.com
Morgan Audio Media Service
Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901
_______________________________________
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com

"Phillip" wrote in message
om...
So what is one to do? Record companies won't take unsolicited
material.....what can a songwriter realistically do?

In case you don't know, there's a songwriters usenet forum. I'm sure you'll
find a lot of feedback there as well.

I've never had a hit song but dabble in songwriting and here are some
reflections on things I've come across on this very topic. Take it FWIW.

If you've ever been to a local songwriters group, and you have any actual
skill at songwriting and a genuinely objective ear, you've probably found
that there are a lot of people who "write songs" that aren't very good at
it. Obviously most people want to make a million bucks with their songs.
Also true is that many people have a hard time being objective about their
own work. Even when they go to a group to have it critiqued, they have a
hard time accepting criticism.

Yeah, some people have their heads up their wazoos regarding critiquing, are
biased, will never like anything with a certain flavor, some famous songs
were initially turned down etc. yada yada....but, if you keep not getting
positive feedback, maybe it's not everybody else. Or, even if the song is
decent in and of itself, it isn't marketable. Or maybe your arrangement a/or
recording is detracting from it.

If you want to write songs that please you, go for it. Write stuff to your
hearts content, but if you're writing for mass consumption, you have to
present material that fits. Do you have a strong technical grasp of how
current material in the genres you're writing for is done?

I.e., it seems to me just to have a legitimate shot, you have to have the
material. *Are* you able to write as well as those whose music is being
played on tv/radio/film?

Even if the answer is "yes", you're entering a highly competitive, dog eat
dog, screw you arena. Everybody and their damn brother is trying to do
exactly what you are and will walk over your dead body in a second to get
ahead of you.

A really eye-opening experience was going to the Bluebird Cafe songwriter's
series at the Disney Institute a few years back. These were all peope who
had written hits, and you would have been amazed at some of the material
they played there that they had been unsuccessful in get a recording deal
for. Stuff that's just as strong as anything out there, just as good or even
better than their previous work that had been picked up. All of it light
years above the typical local-yokel songwriters group offerings.

These are all people who have been at it for a long time, and have
connections and a track record. What was also amazing was that some of these
songwriters weren't themselves known as performers, they all played and sang
incredibly well.

Something I read somewhere by some industry person is that he feels "the
good songs will find him". I.e., he's totally in the catbird seat. The pool
of talented songwriters who are willing to hustle and dedicate their lives
to scrap it out to get their material heard is so large that he has an
unlimited supply of quality material that makes it to his people as it is.
He doesn't need to listen to 1000 lousy, amateur songs to find one decent
one.

Do a lot of excellent songs get passed over? Absolutely. Maybe you have a
bunch of superbly crafted songs that could be hits. So does Diane Warren.
Guess whose songs are going to get listened to first? Don't call us, maybe
we'll call you...but probably not.

Even if you were to make it through the gauntlet and actually get your song
recorded, how much do you know about the business of the music business,
contracts, etc? You should spend a substantial amount of time educating
yourself in this area. There are many stories of famous artists who got
hosed by their record companies. The industry isn't set up to be honest and
give everyone a fair shot, it's set up to make the most profit for those who
are at the top of the food chain.

You may be interested to know that Garth Brooks has a degree in Business
Administration, not music.

From everything I've read, the record companies are always looking for new
and innovative ways to screw the songwriter out of their share and are not
above playing fast and loose with the truth regarding accounting, etc. and
have lobbyists and lawyers on their payroll. You think they're lying about
how many units sold and downloads there have been of your songs? Prove it.
They're in breach of your contract? Fine, you don't mind spending the next 5
years in court over it, and can afford it, right? In the meantime, they've
made a few calls and suddenly you seem to be on a blacklist. That's a shame.

I've only heard of one actual pop radio hit that's come by way of Taxi, some
song that Kenny Rogers did about 5 years ago or so. Maybe they've had more
since then, but I would think they'd splash it all over their site if they
did. Haven't looked at it recently. Of course, there are other arenas -
film/tv scoring. Supposedly, people have gotten work in those areas via
Taxi.

Phillip wrote:

A big problem I have with Taxi is when
they criticize you for doing something in your songs, when it's the exact
same type of thing that record labels are putting on the radio! It's almost
like you can't win! I have a hard time paying $300 a year to a site that
constantly does this. I actually did have one song forwarded to a record
label (so Taxi says) but nothing ever came of it.

If that's all you're getting out of it, then it definitely isn't worth
your money. You can post your songs on a web site, put a pointer to it
here, and get the same comments for free. G Taxi isn't for beginners
(and you're a beginner until you start selling songs, no matter how
long you've been at it), it's for people who are almost ready and just
haven't developed the contacts. It also seems (from the success story
ads) that most of the sales aren't to major artists or record lables,
but rather for film scores or incidental music in films or TV. Nothing
wrong with that, they're paying gigs, but you aren't likely to get rich
or famous unless you have uncanny luck.

Is there really any
avenues these days, or is the job of songwriters pretty much long gone?

It's tough, and you have to pound the pavement. It' really helps to
hook up with a publishing company that has a track record and the
contacts to get their songs heard. That's hard to do, but at least
there are more of those than there are record labels and artists
looking for songs. You give up at least half of your royalties but half
the royalties on a sale of 50,000 records (remember, you get paid for
each CD sale even if your song isn't the hit that people buy the CD
for) is better than all the royalties and profits on a sale of 200 CDs
off the stage.

Still, the business model is changing and things haven't settled out
yet. If you can record a song for $1000 and sell 20,000 downloads at 99
cents a piece, you're making good money.

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
oups.com...

Taxi isn't for beginners
(and you're a beginner until you start selling songs, no matter how
long you've been at it), it's for people who are almost ready and just
haven't developed the contacts.

But I assume they don't turn down beginner money. ;-)

Curiosity piqued, I took a look at their site. I see the group Crossfade
(not one I personally was familiar with) had success with Columbia.

It wasn't clear to me if the OP was told who his music was sent to.
According to the TAXI site, they're supposed to be advised where it's sent
to.

They show a number of folks sitting in a cube farm at computers with
headphones accompanied by the text:

"A specialist from our team of 200 highly trained industry veterans will
carefully listen to each and every song you send us. And yes, you can rest
assured that we match Pop experts with Pop listings, and Country experts
with Country listings, and so on. We guarantee that the people who listen to
every one of your submissions will be experts in the type of music you send
us."

But, we're assured the occupants of these cubicles a

"...more than 200 heavyweight music industry veterans who are highly skilled
in the art of picking hits. They've been Vice Presidents and Directors of
A&R at major labels, music publishers, Grammy-winning songwriters and
producers, Hollywood music supervisors, and program directors from top radio
stations. They have worked at companies like A&M, Arista, ASCAP, BMI,
Capitol, Columbia, EMI Music Publishing, Famous Music, MCA, RCA, Warner
Bros., Windham Hill, Word, Virgin, and many, many more. We guarantee your
music will always be thoroughly listened to by one of our pros - no second
stringers. All music is screened under our direct supervision at TAXI's Los
Angeles headquarters."

On this same page, they tell you to check out TAXI's Better Business Bureau
rating, which I did. Shows an "A" rating, with 3 complaints that they show
to have resolved satisfactorily. They're a BBB member. Can't say how
significant this is, I know of companies that were complete slimepits that
were "Members of the BBB".

Interestingly, one of the search methods on the BBB website is to put in the
company address, which I looked for. So far the only mention I've found of
where TAXI is based is in the blurb above, regarding their A&R staff. I
suppose one could theorize that they don't want every wannabe and their
sister showing up on their front door. I found their BBB listing using their
name on the BBB site. They show TAXI's addresses as 5010 North Parkway
Calabasas #200 Calabasas, CA 91302 and 21450 Burbank Blvd Suite 307 Woodland
Hills, CA 91367.

"Phillip" wrote in
. com:

What do you all think?


Taxi is a scam perpetrated by washed up artists and industry types
to con the naive out of their money.
Keep sending them that money for nothing...

"Phillip" wrote in message
. com...

I actually did have one song forwarded to a record
label (so Taxi says)

Did they tell you who it was sent to?

Phillip said the following on 08/03/2006 12:18 am:
Hello,
I am a songwriter and I have in the past joined companies like Taxi to
try and get my music into the industry. However, sometimes I don't know
what to think about these sites. A big problem I have with Taxi is when
they criticize you for doing something in your songs, when it's the exact
same type of thing that record labels are putting on the radio! It's almost
like you can't win! I have a hard time paying $300 a year to a site that
constantly does this. I actually did have one song forwarded to a record
label (so Taxi says) but nothing ever came of it. Is there really any
avenues these days, or is the job of songwriters pretty much long gone?
Seems like the only music we get to hear these days is the crap that artists
try to do themselves, and most of the time it really is crap. What do you
all think?


I think that now we have internet it's time to kick the industry
parasites back under whatever stone it was they crawled from.

There are lots of sites from which you can host your own page, and
give/sell downloads of your music, and some will press cd's for you.
They don't take the rights to your music and they don't take all the
money either (far from it).

Have a look through
http://www.downhillbattle.org/

and particularly see what Courtney Love said about the industry:
http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2000/06/14/love/
you don't stand to lose anything by not getting a contract.

Also see "The Problem with Music" by Steve albini:
http://www.negativland.com/albini.html

Get together with your mates and form your own label.

If you can't produce, pay someone to do it. It will be cheaper in the
long run. Or team up with a producer. One day, when you have enough
power, the major labels might be a useful option, but only when they are
begging you to join them, and you can negotiate properly.

You may think you'll never make a living this way, but think how much
bands waste on chasing record contracts. That could be better spent on
chasing listeners directly.

"sav" wrote:

There are lots of sites from which you can host your own page, and
give/sell downloads of your music



Yay, a web site to post my songs. Yippee. Who's going to hear them?

The buying public does not visit obscure songwriter sites to acquire
their entertainment product. The ones who actually buy at all rather
than just using p2p go to Tower, Amazon and iTunes.

Having your music available in a web site doesn't do much good if no one
knows it's there or visits the site.

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)

Doc wrote:

But I assume they don't turn down beginner money. ;-)

Nope. Nobody is that bad.

They show a number of folks sitting in a cube farm at computers with
headphones accompanied by the text:

"I used to write songs in a sweat shop in Nashville, but Taxi got me a
$50,000 movie deal and now I'm writing ten new songs a day and lovin'
it."

Lorin David Schultz said the following on 08/03/2006 09:08 pm:
"sav" wrote:
There are lots of sites from which you can host your own page, and
give/sell downloads of your music



Yay, a web site to post my songs. Yippee. Who's going to hear them?

The buying public does not visit obscure songwriter sites to acquire
their entertainment product. The ones who actually buy at all rather
than just using p2p go to Tower, Amazon and iTunes.

Having your music available in a web site doesn't do much good if no one
knows it's there or visits the site.


Oh wise person, so clever and superior, I will refrain from trying to
help out with suggestions anymore. (that, after all, was just one
suggestioin as part of a strategy) Wallow in your stupid corporate
goose-chase, I care not.

"sav" wrote:

Oh wise person, so clever and superior

Not at all. I don't control how the general public acquires their
entertainment product. Nor am I defending the existing system. I'm
simply stating that it is what it is. You are welcome to hate it and be
frustrated (I dig that) but it doesn't change the fact that music buyers
are not inclined to spend hours wading through a million web sites to
find something to play in the car. It just doesn't happen. As much as
I'd *like* to be clever and/or superior, I'm afraid the situation is
very much beyond my control, and railing at me is just shooting the
messenger.



Wallow in your stupid corporate goose-chase, I care not.

You dismiss real-world reality at your own peril. Personally, given a
choice between swimming in the cesspool or sinking in it, I'll try to go
with the flow.

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)

"Lorin David Schultz" wrote in message
news:nJHPf.22894$Ui.12471@edtnps84...
Yay, a web site to post my songs. Yippee. Who's going to hear them?

With any luck, I will. I'm actually looking for a large number of artists,
composers, etc for distribution. And believe me with as little as some of
these people advertise it's a miracle their own mother can find the website.
Joseph Ashwood
Caffeinated Music

Lorin David Schultz said the following on 08/03/2006 09:51 pm:
"sav" wrote:
Oh wise person, so clever and superior

Not at all. I don't control how the general public acquires their
entertainment product. Nor am I defending the existing system. I'm
simply stating that it is what it is. You are welcome to hate it and be
frustrated (I dig that) but it doesn't change the fact that music buyers
are not inclined to spend hours wading through a million web sites to
find something to play in the car. It just doesn't happen. As much as
I'd *like* to be clever and/or superior, I'm afraid the situation is
very much beyond my control, and railing at me is just shooting the
messenger.

If you'd bothered to read the links I sent you'd see why I think you can
make just as much money or more doing it yourself. Unless you have
relatives high up in the industry or get inredibly lucky.

Wallow in your stupid corporate goose-chase, I care not.

You dismiss real-world reality at your own peril. Personally, given a
choice between swimming in the cesspool or sinking in it, I'll try to go
with the flow.

Choose a different stream, lots of others are, and are having success.
Look where the flow you're choosing is leading.

Joseph Ashwood said the following on 08/03/2006 09:53 pm:
"Lorin David Schultz" wrote in message
news:nJHPf.22894$Ui.12471@edtnps84...
Yay, a web site to post my songs. Yippee. Who's going to hear them?

With any luck, I will. I'm actually looking for a large number of artists,
composers, etc for distribution. And believe me with as little as some of
these people advertise it's a miracle their own mother can find the website.
Joseph Ashwood
Caffeinated Music

Is this what you mean?

http://www.indie911.com/caffeinated

Looks interesting.

sav wrote:

If you'd bothered to read the links I sent you'd see why I think you can
make just as much money or more doing it yourself. Unless you have
relatives high up in the industry or get inredibly lucky.

A good songwriter who works for or with an established publishing
company make more money than people who sell tunes over the Internet.
But it's a real job, these guys and gals work at writing songs all day
for years and years. Some of them wear suits.

Most musicians don't want real jobs, however, they just want to write,
sing, play, and make money, so they don't understand this part of the
industry.

"sav" wrote in message
...
Joseph Ashwood said the following on 08/03/2006 09:53 pm:
"Lorin David Schultz" wrote in message
news:nJHPf.22894$Ui.12471@edtnps84...
Yay, a web site to post my songs. Yippee. Who's going to hear them?

With any luck, I will. I'm actually looking for a large number of
artists, composers, etc for distribution. And believe me with as little
as some of these people advertise it's a miracle their own mother can
find the website.
Joseph Ashwood
Caffeinated Music

Is this what you mean?

http://www.indie911.com/caffeinated

Nope, not me. Caffeinated Music is an online music distributor. As far as
it's method of distribution, it works a lot like Napster used to, biggest
differences are that there's a subscription to pay, and the artists make
money. I know there are a lot of other Caffeine or Caffeinated things
floating around the music industry, but considering the people I had
immediate contact with it was the softest acceptable drug, besides we all
know the good stuff (music, that is) will keep you up all night.
Joe

Phillip,
I've been a member of Taxi for about 6 years. It is a great
organization. The free conference that they put on each year is worth
the yearly fee alone. I have met the people who are screeners. They are
real people who are music industry veterans who all have different
perspectives and experience and who are all likely to give you
different opinions about your music. You have to look for trends. If
nine out of ten people tell you that your lyrics suck, you might take a
look at them. I have personally met and talked with several people who
have scored deals through taxi, but it is really difficult, mainly
because there are a lot of really good songwriters! I have had songs
forwarded and have been notified who it has been forwarded to, but have
not gotten any deals (yet), but then again they get a lot of great
songs forwarded to them. It took me a while to get to that point,
because frankly, my songs were amaturish with bad productions. The
songs that I have seen picked up would have been recognized by anyone
as hit songs. There are other ways to get your music out there besides
taxi, but I've found it to be very valuable. It has really improved my
songwriting and production.

Good luck,
Al


Phillip wrote:
Hello,
I am a songwriter and I have in the past joined companies like Taxi to
try and get my music into the industry. However, sometimes I don't know
what to think about these sites. A big problem I have with Taxi is when
they criticize you for doing something in your songs, when it's the exact
same type of thing that record labels are putting on the radio! It's almost
like you can't win! I have a hard time paying $300 a year to a site that
constantly does this. I actually did have one song forwarded to a record
label (so Taxi says) but nothing ever came of it. Is there really any
avenues these days, or is the job of songwriters pretty much long gone?
Seems like the only music we get to hear these days is the crap that artists
try to do themselves, and most of the time it really is crap. What do you
all think?

--

Phillip S.
~Pilot, Aircraft Dispatcher, and Audio Newbie Extraordinaire

"sav" wrote:

If you'd bothered to read the links I sent

Not practical. Many of us read this group offline during downtime at
work so following links isn't an option.



Choose a different stream, lots of others are, and are having
success.

I believe lots of others are choosing alternative approaches. I do not
believe "lots" are having success. Some, sure, but I really doubt that
many more are doing well through alternative channels than traditional
ones.

I'd love to be wrong, though. I really do wish the pioneers success.
I'm just pessimistic about the potential for artist web sites to really
make a big difference.

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)