Hey guys, I'm looking for some opinions here. I'm experimenting with
different amps in my system. I suddenly find I have 6 amps (been going a
little crazy on Ebay lately), but only need four. I have this Prestige 4
Channel amp (PA-440) that I have been using for rear-fill. It's
SURPRISINGLY powerful and sounds very clean to me and so I am considering
bridging it into two channels and driving my two front tweeters with it (MB
Quart PSD 1" tweeters) as I'm fairly sure this would be more powerful than
my current tweeter amp. But I heard once (a long time ago) from a guy I
trust that bridging an amp degrades sound quality (not as much headroom?),
and as this is for my tweeters, SQ is PARAMOUNT.

Any thoughts on this? I know, I know, the obvious answer is "just try it",
and I'm sure I will, but I'm just curious about the sound quality issue.

Thanks,

MOSFET

In article ,
"MOSFET" wrote:

Hey guys, I'm looking for some opinions here. I'm experimenting with
different amps in my system. I suddenly find I have 6 amps (been going a
little crazy on Ebay lately), but only need four. I have this Prestige 4
Channel amp (PA-440) that I have been using for rear-fill. It's
SURPRISINGLY powerful and sounds very clean to me and so I am considering
bridging it into two channels and driving my two front tweeters with it (MB
Quart PSD 1" tweeters) as I'm fairly sure this would be more powerful than
my current tweeter amp. But I heard once (a long time ago) from a guy I
trust that bridging an amp degrades sound quality (not as much headroom?),
and as this is for my tweeters, SQ is PARAMOUNT.

Any thoughts on this? I know, I know, the obvious answer is "just try it",
and I'm sure I will, but I'm just curious about the sound quality issue.

Thanks,

MOSFET

Bridging doubles the power of everything, including the bad stuff.
That's not a problem unless your amp borderline sucks to start with.

You don't have to bridge the tweeters. Most amps can be wired like this
if you don't put them in bridged mode:

mono
woofer
- +
------| |------
| |
| Ltw Rtw |
| - + - + |
+-| |--+--| |-+
| | |
| | |

- + - +

left right
| -- bridge ---|
A m p l i f i e r

(I didn't draw the low pass and high pass filters)

Amps already have the left and right channels out of phase so that bass
thumps draw from both power rails. They're put back in phase simply by
having opposing speaker terminal connections. The bridge button makes
the output mono to increase the power output a bit.

"MOSFET" wrote in message
...
Hey guys, I'm looking for some opinions here. I'm experimenting with
different amps in my system. I suddenly find I have 6 amps (been going a
little crazy on Ebay lately), but only need four. I have this Prestige 4
Channel amp (PA-440) that I have been using for rear-fill. It's
SURPRISINGLY powerful and sounds very clean to me and so I am considering
bridging it into two channels and driving my two front tweeters with it
(MB Quart PSD 1" tweeters) as I'm fairly sure this would be more powerful
than my current tweeter amp. But I heard once (a long time ago) from a
guy I trust that bridging an amp degrades sound quality (not as much
headroom?), and as this is for my tweeters, SQ is PARAMOUNT.

Any thoughts on this? I know, I know, the obvious answer is "just try
it", and I'm sure I will, but I'm just curious about the sound quality
issue.


Do tweeters really need extra amplification or an amp all their own?

PD

"Matt Ion" wrote in message
news:V9_Nf.95730$B94.79547@pd7tw3no...
Phonedude wrote:
"MOSFET" wrote in message
...

Hey guys, I'm looking for some opinions here. I'm experimenting with
different amps in my system. I suddenly find I have 6 amps (been going a
little crazy on Ebay lately), but only need four. I have this Prestige 4
Channel amp (PA-440) that I have been using for rear-fill. It's
SURPRISINGLY powerful and sounds very clean to me and so I am considering
bridging it into two channels and driving my two front tweeters with it
(MB Quart PSD 1" tweeters) as I'm fairly sure this would be more powerful
than my current tweeter amp. But I heard once (a long time ago) from a
guy I trust that bridging an amp degrades sound quality (not as much
headroom?), and as this is for my tweeters, SQ is PARAMOUNT.

Any thoughts on this? I know, I know, the obvious answer is "just try
it", and I'm sure I will, but I'm just curious about the sound quality
issue.



Do tweeters really need extra amplification or an amp all their own?

Yeah, that's what I'm just thinking too... a dedicated tweeter amp is WAY
overkill,

No it's NOT! Well, not for these tweeters anyway. They're really
inefficient and seem to like lots of power.

MOSFET

Kevin,

I think you said some really interesting things, but I didn't catch it all.
Do you mean to say that when I bridge my tweeters, they will be out of
phase?

I'm thinking maybe I'll just stick to the amp I have (a non-bridged amp for
my tweets, about 50 watts per channel RMS), maybe you guys are right, tweets
just don't need 100 watts. Is that the consensus here?

MOSFET

"Kevin McMurtrie" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"MOSFET" wrote:

Hey guys, I'm looking for some opinions here. I'm experimenting with
different amps in my system. I suddenly find I have 6 amps (been going a
little crazy on Ebay lately), but only need four. I have this Prestige 4
Channel amp (PA-440) that I have been using for rear-fill. It's
SURPRISINGLY powerful and sounds very clean to me and so I am considering
bridging it into two channels and driving my two front tweeters with it
(MB
Quart PSD 1" tweeters) as I'm fairly sure this would be more powerful
than
my current tweeter amp. But I heard once (a long time ago) from a guy I
trust that bridging an amp degrades sound quality (not as much
headroom?),
and as this is for my tweeters, SQ is PARAMOUNT.

Any thoughts on this? I know, I know, the obvious answer is "just try
it",
and I'm sure I will, but I'm just curious about the sound quality issue.

Thanks,

MOSFET

Bridging doubles the power of everything, including the bad stuff.
That's not a problem unless your amp borderline sucks to start with.

You don't have to bridge the tweeters. Most amps can be wired like this
if you don't put them in bridged mode:

mono
woofer
- +
------| |------
| |
| Ltw Rtw |
| - + - + |
+-| |--+--| |-+
| | |
| | |

- + - +

left right
| -- bridge ---|
A m p l i f i e r

(I didn't draw the low pass and high pass filters)

Amps already have the left and right channels out of phase so that bass
thumps draw from both power rails. They're put back in phase simply by
having opposing speaker terminal connections. The bridge button makes
the output mono to increase the power output a bit.

I'll explain some of the reasons why bi-amping your fronts are beneficial.

OK, let's say you have a basic system with separates up front and an amp
powering them. When your amp starts to clip, this clipping sounds much
worse through tweeters than it does a midrange driver. A separate amp for
the tweeters ensures you NEVER hear clipping through your tweeters (because
tweeters just don't need as much power).

The main reason I do it is so I can control the tweeter volume from my dash.
I have a Clarion EQ that my RCA FRONTS from my Alpine 9853 go into. From
there, I have two sets of RCA's, one goes to the midbass amp, and one goes
to the tweeter amp. So by adjusting the fader control on the EQ, I can
adjust volume levels of my midbass driver and my tweeter.

Another reason I do it is because I'm not using a "conventional" component
set. I am using MB Quart tweeters, but I am using JL VR series midbass
drivers. The MB Quart midbass drivers just couldn't produce the midbass I
needed (so they are in a drawer, now). So I really shouldn't use the
passive X-over that came with the Quart's as that is designed for the Quart
midbass driver (everything will be sort of out-of-whack).
So I designed my own passive X-overs. But, AGAIN, another cool feature of
bi-amping is that my tweeter amp has a high-pass X-over of 400 Hz, so it
does some of the high-pass duties for me (although I do, for saftey sake,
have a passive X-over network set-up).

Anyway, those are some of the reasons.

MOSFET

1000 watts per tweeter should do the trick. If they bur nout you can try a
pair of JBL W series horns.






I'm thinking maybe I'll just stick to the amp I have (a non-bridged amp for
my tweets, about 50 watts per channel RMS), maybe you guys are right, tweets
just don't need 100 watts. Is that the consensus here?

MOSFET

An independent amp channel for a tweetermay be overkill in power terms, but
the benefits in adjustability with the amp's xover and volume level is very
nice. Plus, most passive xovers that come with component sets pale in
comparison to a decent amp's xover.

Tony


--
2001 Nissan Maxima SE Anniversary Edition
Clarion DRZ9255 Head Unit, Phoenix Gold ZX475ti, ZX450 and Xenon X1200.1
Amplifiers, Dynaudio System 360 Tri-Amped In Front and Focal 130HCs For Rear
Fill, Image Dynamics IDMAX10 D4 v.3 Sub

2001 Chevy S10 ZR2
Pioneer DEH-P9600MP Head Unit, Phoenix Gold Ti500.4 Amp, Focal 165HC
Speakers & Image Dynamics ID8 D4 v.3 Sub

2006 Mustang GT Coupe

In article ,
"MOSFET" wrote:

Kevin,

I think you said some really interesting things, but I didn't catch it all.
Do you mean to say that when I bridge my tweeters, they will be out of
phase?

The tweeters will be in phase when you wire them according to the amp's
terminal labels.

The left and right amplifiers are out of phase but that's fixed by the
labeling of the speaker connectors.


Car amplifier:

----- inverting amp ----- speaker -
/-- speaker +
--------neutral------|
\-- speaker -
------- normal amp ------ speaker +


Home amplifier:

------- normal amp ------ speaker +
/-- speaker -
--------neutral------|
\-- speaker -
------- normal amp ------ speaker +


The end result is the same when you drive two speakers. The car setup
has the advantage of being bridgeable and bass thumps draw power equally
from the positive and negative power rails at once.



I'm thinking maybe I'll just stick to the amp I have (a non-bridged amp for
my tweets, about 50 watts per channel RMS), maybe you guys are right, tweets
just don't need 100 watts. Is that the consensus here?

MOSFET

"Kevin McMurtrie" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"MOSFET" wrote:

Hey guys, I'm looking for some opinions here. I'm experimenting with
different amps in my system. I suddenly find I have 6 amps (been going a
little crazy on Ebay lately), but only need four. I have this Prestige 4
Channel amp (PA-440) that I have been using for rear-fill. It's
SURPRISINGLY powerful and sounds very clean to me and so I am considering
bridging it into two channels and driving my two front tweeters with it
(MB
Quart PSD 1" tweeters) as I'm fairly sure this would be more powerful
than
my current tweeter amp. But I heard once (a long time ago) from a guy I
trust that bridging an amp degrades sound quality (not as much
headroom?),
and as this is for my tweeters, SQ is PARAMOUNT.

Any thoughts on this? I know, I know, the obvious answer is "just try
it",
and I'm sure I will, but I'm just curious about the sound quality issue.

Thanks,

MOSFET

Bridging doubles the power of everything, including the bad stuff.
That's not a problem unless your amp borderline sucks to start with.

You don't have to bridge the tweeters. Most amps can be wired like this
if you don't put them in bridged mode:

mono
woofer
- +
------| |------
| |
| Ltw Rtw |
| - + - + |
+-| |--+--| |-+
| | |
| | |

- + - +

left right
| -- bridge ---|
A m p l i f i e r

(I didn't draw the low pass and high pass filters)

Amps already have the left and right channels out of phase so that bass
thumps draw from both power rails. They're put back in phase simply by
having opposing speaker terminal connections. The bridge button makes
the output mono to increase the power output a bit.

An independent amp channel for a tweetermay be overkill in power terms,

You know Tony, I can't believe how much better it sounds bi-amped. I
previously had my SS Ref. 700 (125 watts X 2 RMS) powering the fronts (now
it has sub duty, as it is the only amp that is 2 ohm bridged stable for my
two MTX's) which I think many people would consider enough power for just
about any set of separates. Now I have a Punch 225.2 (112.5 X 2 RMS, before
RF got crappy) powering my JL midbasses and a Jensen A46XP (80 watts X 2
RMS) powering my tweeters. This sounds SOOO much better, it's really
startling. I really wasn't expecting such a dramatic difference in SQ,
ESPECIALLY at high volumes.

MOSFET