hello folks
why do people go out and spend multiple thousands on Loudspeakers.
when you can build your own for a fraction of the price.
are people lazy, stupid or just have too much money to spend
regards malcolm


--
¸.·´¯`·.¸((((º.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸((((º.·´¯`·.¸
LED Headlamps and Sea Fishing UK
http://www.geocities.com/malc_hurn
¸.·´¯`·.¸((((º.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸((((º.·´¯`·.¸

"bored malcolm" wrote in message
news:LbGJb.50481$xX.270653@attbi_s02...
hello folks
why do people go out and spend multiple thousands on Loudspeakers.
when you can build your own for a fraction of the price.
are people lazy, stupid or just have too much money to spend
regards malcolm



any takers

In article rxGJb.739539$Fm2.663166@attbi_s04,
"malcolm" wrote:

"bored malcolm" wrote in message
news:LbGJb.50481$xX.270653@attbi_s02...
hello folks
why do people go out and spend multiple thousands on Loudspeakers.
when you can build your own for a fraction of the price.
are people lazy, stupid or just have too much money to spend
regards malcolm



any takers

Incorrect premise, followed by insults.

"malcolm" wrote in message
news:LbGJb.50481$xX.270653@attbi_s02...
hello folks
why do people go out and spend multiple thousands on Loudspeakers.
when you can build your own for a fraction of the price.
are people lazy, stupid or just have too much money to spend
regards malcolm


I suspect it's fear of messing it up, coupled with having no idea of how it
will sound when done. I assume you're referring to kits available from many
places. Unless you live near to a place that sells them and has them on
display, the odds are you're getting a pig in poke.

If most folks knew what kind of quality was available from kit suppliers, I
think there'd be more participation. Those from Dynaudio, like the TWYNN,
which I've built, or those like the Thor from SEAS designed by Joe
D'appolito or any of his Focal designs offer big bang for the buck.

For those without tools and/or expertise in cabinet making Zalytron will
build them for you. Crossovers are generally sent assembled, so the only
thing really needed is a screwdriver and a crimping tool or soldering iron.

--
¸.·´¯`·.¸((((º.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸((((º.·´¯`·.¸
LED Headlamps and Sea Fishing UK
http://www.geocities.com/malc_hurn
¸.·´¯`·.¸((((º.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸((((º.·´¯`·.¸

"MINe 109" wrote in message
...
In article rxGJb.739539$Fm2.663166@attbi_s04,
"malcolm" wrote:

"bored malcolm" wrote in message
news:LbGJb.50481$xX.270653@attbi_s02...
hello folks
why do people go out and spend multiple thousands on Loudspeakers.
when you can build your own for a fraction of the price.
are people lazy, stupid or just have too much money to spend
regards malcolm



any takers

Incorrect premise, followed by insults.


whats the appeal of $5000, $10,000 and god forbid I saw recently $30,000
pair of Loudspeakers?
for less than say $250 you can build a decent set of Loudspeakers,
go a bit wild and double or quadruple if use $200 drivers.
I would rather get my hands dirty and cut the wood, breathe in the
fibreglass strands,
and clean the glue off my hands at the end of a day and look proudly at
something I made myself.
and if it doesnt work then tweak or remake the buggers,
you can always reuse most of the bits too.
regards malcolm

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

"malcolm" wrote in message
news:LbGJb.50481$xX.270653@attbi_s02...
hello folks
why do people go out and spend multiple thousands on Loudspeakers.
when you can build your own for a fraction of the price.
are people lazy, stupid or just have too much money to spend
regards malcolm


I suspect it's fear of messing it up, coupled with having no idea of how
it
will sound when done. I assume you're referring to kits available from
many
places. Unless you live near to a place that sells them and has them on
display, the odds are you're getting a pig in poke.

If most folks knew what kind of quality was available from kit suppliers,
I
think there'd be more participation. Those from Dynaudio, like the TWYNN,
which I've built, or those like the Thor from SEAS designed by Joe
D'appolito or any of his Focal designs offer big bang for the buck.

For those without tools and/or expertise in cabinet making Zalytron will
build them for you. Crossovers are generally sent assembled, so the only
thing really needed is a screwdriver and a crimping tool or soldering
iron.

--
¸.·´¯`·.¸((((º.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸((((º.·´¯`·.¸
LED Headlamps and Sea Fishing UK
http://www.geocities.com/malc_hurn
¸.·´¯`·.¸((((º.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸((((º.·´¯`·.¸





and www.Partexpress.com sell all sorts of drivers and baffles and part
assembled kits,
from bare cabinets to veneered ones, granted not monster hi-fi speakers,
but a start for people to get used to building.
go here and see what is possible if you are willing to try DIY.
http://www.diyaudio.com/
Western Civilisation is supposed to be about participation not communistic
consumerism.
regards malcolm

"malcolm" wrote in message
news:LbGJb.50481$xX.270653@attbi_s02...
hello folks
why do people go out and spend multiple thousands on Loudspeakers.
when you can build your own for a fraction of the price.
are people lazy, stupid or just have too much money to spend
regards malcolm


Probably the same reason they don't raise their own cattle,
build there own houses, ferment their own wine, and churn
their own butter.




----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 21:08:59 GMT, "malcolm"
wrote:

hello folks
why do people go out and spend multiple thousands on Loudspeakers.
when you can build your own for a fraction of the price.
are people lazy,

Mebbe but one's time is worth money. For some of us, that cost is
significant.

stupid

Mebbe. It is not trivial to design a good speaker system and
obtaining the right components and material is often complicated.
Building kits is buying a pig in a poke, Sometimes you win,
sometimes.....

or just have too much money to spend

Da capo.

Kal

"Michael McKelvy" wrote:



"malcolm" wrote in message
news:LbGJb.50481$xX.270653@attbi_s02...
hello folks
why do people go out and spend multiple thousands on Loudspeakers.
when you can build your own for a fraction of the price.
are people lazy, stupid or just have too much money to spend
regards malcolm


I suspect it's fear of messing it up, coupled with having no idea of how it
will sound when done. I assume you're referring to kits available from many
places. Unless you live near to a place that sells them and has them on
display, the odds are you're getting a pig in poke.

If most folks knew what kind of quality was available from kit suppliers, I
think there'd be more participation. Those from Dynaudio, like the TWYNN,
which I've built, or those like the Thor from SEAS designed by Joe
D'appolito or any of his Focal designs offer big bang for the buck.

For those without tools and/or expertise in cabinet making Zalytron will
build them for you. Crossovers are generally sent assembled, so the only
thing really needed is a screwdriver and a crimping tool or soldering iron.

I think the Golden-Age of roll-your-own full range speaker building burned
itself out in the early 90s. At an audio club "measure-athon" held at the Bosch
laboratories ("Bring your project in an get a complete set of anechoic
measurements") for members we had a dozen projects. One of these was an
elaborate 3-way full range with a cast football-shaped concrete cabinet.

At the end of the day the Host dragged out a pair of $300 Celestion speakers
they used as monitors on the test bench. This moderate cost speaker literally
blew away ALL the projects brought in that day.

While it is true that some of my friends have made some very good sounding
home-brew speakers the main reason to RYO full range or satellite speakers is
for unusual/custom style, shape or finish. Brands like Paradigm,PSB and a few
others simply have the engineering/manufacturing/distribution chains to make
better speakers than most people can build for LESS money.

It is true that some (not all) of the more modern kits supply the engineering
for the DIY and so the job is easier than it has ever been. (Anyone who bought
expensive Dynaudio drivers on the hobbyist market in the 80-90s knows that no
two cone drivers were ever supplied as specified and seldom would you get 2
that seemed to be clones on one another.....I think they may have sold OEM
overruns and rejects to us under a single part number) but the real reason for
DIY, with one exception, today is the "custom; I made it myself" appeal and not
performance.

That exception is full-band high dynamic capability subwoofers. An enthusiast
simply cannot buy a commerical subwoofer today that will play all commerically
available recordings at reference levels.

That's the primary reason I use a DIY subwoofer; no commercial unit(s) will
deliver 120 dB @ 2 meters 10% distortion from 10 - 62 Hz to compliment the
recordings that I own which have significant output at 10 Hz and even below.
Couldn't find one on the market so I had to make my own. This particular one
also consumes no floor space and is invisible from the listening position so it
satisfies the 'style' quotient as well.

And I'm not alone. You'll find an excellent description of a DIY subwoofer and
DIY full range speaker systems published in Audio Express and the old Speaker
Builder made by my colleague Tom Parazella. Neither of these was a casual "I'll
just do this myself" undertaking. IMO it's this level of involvement that truly
justifies a DIY approach in todays environment of some damn good commercial
speakers for a modest outlay.

It's still true that there are many bad performing loudspeakers at every price
level (it sometimes seems that the more expensive the lesser the performance)
but there are also some great ones for next to nothing.

I don't mean to discourage DIY. But don't spend a lot of money before trying a
modest speaker system first to test the water.

I'm kind of surprised that there aren't more commercial tear-offs. By that I
mean a good sounding set of commercial speakers put in a custom cabinet or
otherwise modified to fit a given situation.

In article 0UHJb.725126$HS4.5409263@attbi_s01,
"malcolm" wrote:

"MINe 109" wrote in message
...
In article rxGJb.739539$Fm2.663166@attbi_s04,
"malcolm" wrote:

"bored malcolm" wrote in message
news:LbGJb.50481$xX.270653@attbi_s02...
hello folks
why do people go out and spend multiple thousands on Loudspeakers.
when you can build your own for a fraction of the price.
are people lazy, stupid or just have too much money to spend
regards malcolm



any takers

Incorrect premise, followed by insults.


whats the appeal of $5000, $10,000 and god forbid I saw recently $30,000
pair of Loudspeakers?

Statements.

for less than say $250 you can build a decent set of Loudspeakers,
go a bit wild and double or quadruple if use $200 drivers.
I would rather get my hands dirty and cut the wood, breathe in the
fibreglass strands,

Hello, lung ward...

and clean the glue off my hands at the end of a day and look proudly at
something I made myself.
and if it doesnt work then tweak or remake the buggers,
you can always reuse most of the bits too.

No one's stopping you.

"malcolm" wrote in
news:bZHJb.739898$Fm2.665386@attbi_s04:


"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

"malcolm" wrote in message
news:LbGJb.50481$xX.270653@attbi_s02...
hello folks
why do people go out and spend multiple thousands on Loudspeakers.
when you can build your own for a fraction of the price.
are people lazy, stupid or just have too much money to spend
regards malcolm


I suspect it's fear of messing it up, coupled with having no idea of
how
it
will sound when done. I assume you're referring to kits available from
many
places. Unless you live near to a place that sells them and has them
on display, the odds are you're getting a pig in poke.

If most folks knew what kind of quality was available from kit
suppliers,
I
think there'd be more participation. Those from Dynaudio, like the
TWYNN, which I've built, or those like the Thor from SEAS designed by
Joe D'appolito or any of his Focal designs offer big bang for the buck.

For those without tools and/or expertise in cabinet making Zalytron
will build them for you. Crossovers are generally sent assembled, so
the only thing really needed is a screwdriver and a crimping tool or
soldering
iron.

--
¸.·´¯`·.¸((((º.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸((((º.·´¯`·.¸
LED Headlamps and Sea Fishing UK
http://www.geocities.com/malc_hurn
¸.·´¯`·.¸((((º.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸((((º.·´¯`·.¸





and www.Partexpress.com sell all sorts of drivers and baffles and part
assembled kits,
from bare cabinets to veneered ones, granted not monster hi-fi speakers,
but a start for people to get used to building.
go here and see what is possible if you are willing to try DIY.
http://www.diyaudio.com/
Western Civilisation is supposed to be about participation not
communistic consumerism.
regards malcolm




If you want to build your own, go for it. I have entirely too much
respect for the craft of speaker building to do it the injustice that I
would bring upon it by engineering my own. Been there and got the
t-shirt.

BTW communism wasn't about choices. It was about everyone having the
same. DO you know how many different cars they had in the former Soviet
Union? Do you know what colors were available? There was only one car
and you had your choice of black.


r

--
Nothing beats the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with DLT tapes.

malcolm a écrit :

hello folks
why do people go out and spend multiple thousands on Loudspeakers.
when you can build your own for a fraction of the price.
are people lazy, stupid or just have too much money to spend
regards malcolm


Interesting question Malcolm.
I am now building my own loudspeakers.
I have also chosen a TL design based on this drawing :
http://sgauge.free.fr/ariatl/plan.gif

I purchased the drivers from Madisound :
- Silver Flute W14RC25-08 mid-woofer
- Seas (H883) 27TAFC/G tweeter

Ok, I'm still in "manufacturing" process so I still don't now if they
will sound good, correct or like tins.

To come back to your question, I am not interested in "car mechanic" and
it costs me a lot of money. ;-)

"Lionel" wrote in message
...
malcolm a écrit :

hello folks
why do people go out and spend multiple thousands on Loudspeakers.
when you can build your own for a fraction of the price.
are people lazy, stupid or just have too much money to spend
regards malcolm


Interesting question Malcolm.
I am now building my own loudspeakers.
I have also chosen a TL design based on this drawing :
http://sgauge.free.fr/ariatl/plan.gif

I purchased the drivers from Madisound :
- Silver Flute W14RC25-08 mid-woofer
- Seas (H883) 27TAFC/G tweeter

Ok, I'm still in "manufacturing" process so I still don't now if they
will sound good, correct or like tins.

To come back to your question, I am not interested in "car mechanic" and
it costs me a lot of money. ;-)


looks a nice speaker,
good luck with them

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

"malcolm" wrote in message
news:LbGJb.50481$xX.270653@attbi_s02...
hello folks
why do people go out and spend multiple thousands on Loudspeakers.
when you can build your own for a fraction of the price.
are people lazy, stupid or just have too much money to spend
regards malcolm


Probably the same reason they don't raise their own cattle,
build there own houses, ferment their own wine, and churn
their own butter.




----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000
Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption
=---

a lot of people still live on Farms (Ranches), Pro and Hobby and raise
Cattle, BSE allowing.......
ditto for House building, some people try it once.
Wine and Beer making is very popular.
Churning Butter is prob too boring to do at home, but Ice
Cream.....................

"Rich Andrews" wrote in message
.44...
"malcolm" wrote in
news:bZHJb.739898$Fm2.665386@attbi_s04:


"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

"malcolm" wrote in message
news:LbGJb.50481$xX.270653@attbi_s02...
hello folks
why do people go out and spend multiple thousands on Loudspeakers.
when you can build your own for a fraction of the price.
are people lazy, stupid or just have too much money to spend
regards malcolm


I suspect it's fear of messing it up, coupled with having no idea of
how
it
will sound when done. I assume you're referring to kits available from
many
places. Unless you live near to a place that sells them and has them
on display, the odds are you're getting a pig in poke.

If most folks knew what kind of quality was available from kit
suppliers,
I
think there'd be more participation. Those from Dynaudio, like the
TWYNN, which I've built, or those like the Thor from SEAS designed by
Joe D'appolito or any of his Focal designs offer big bang for the buck.

For those without tools and/or expertise in cabinet making Zalytron
will build them for you. Crossovers are generally sent assembled, so
the only thing really needed is a screwdriver and a crimping tool or
soldering
iron.

--
¸.·´¯`·.¸((((º.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸((((º.·´¯`·.¸
LED Headlamps and Sea Fishing UK
http://www.geocities.com/malc_hurn
¸.·´¯`·.¸((((º.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸((((º.·´¯`·.¸





and www.Partexpress.com sell all sorts of drivers and baffles and part
assembled kits,
from bare cabinets to veneered ones, granted not monster hi-fi speakers,
but a start for people to get used to building.
go here and see what is possible if you are willing to try DIY.
http://www.diyaudio.com/
Western Civilisation is supposed to be about participation not
communistic consumerism.
regards malcolm




If you want to build your own, go for it. I have entirely too much
respect for the craft of speaker building to do it the injustice that I
would bring upon it by engineering my own. Been there and got the
t-shirt.

BTW communism wasn't about choices. It was about everyone having the
same. DO you know how many different cars they had in the former Soviet
Union? Do you know what colors were available? There was only one car
and you had your choice of black.


r

--
Nothing beats the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with DLT tapes.



what choice in the average Hi-Fi magazine..... everybody gets an A.
Never a bad review and so much psuedo science its hilarious,
I never bought another Hi-Fi rag again, after reading a wow review of GOLD
plated mains plugs.
Consumer Communism in my mind is about people blindly following the herd,
any colour you like Sir, as long as its Black, bring back Silver and Wood
scared to think for themselves, a bullet or ridicule whats the difference.
regards malcolm

"Nousaine" wrote in message
...
"Michael McKelvy" wrote:



"malcolm" wrote in message
news:LbGJb.50481$xX.270653@attbi_s02...
hello folks
why do people go out and spend multiple thousands on Loudspeakers.
when you can build your own for a fraction of the price.
are people lazy, stupid or just have too much money to spend
regards malcolm


I suspect it's fear of messing it up, coupled with having no idea of how
it
will sound when done. I assume you're referring to kits available from
many
places. Unless you live near to a place that sells them and has them on
display, the odds are you're getting a pig in poke.

If most folks knew what kind of quality was available from kit suppliers,
I
think there'd be more participation. Those from Dynaudio, like the
TWYNN,
which I've built, or those like the Thor from SEAS designed by Joe
D'appolito or any of his Focal designs offer big bang for the buck.

For those without tools and/or expertise in cabinet making Zalytron will
build them for you. Crossovers are generally sent assembled, so the only
thing really needed is a screwdriver and a crimping tool or soldering
iron.

I think the Golden-Age of roll-your-own full range speaker building burned
itself out in the early 90s. At an audio club "measure-athon" held at the
Bosch
laboratories ("Bring your project in an get a complete set of anechoic
measurements") for members we had a dozen projects. One of these was an
elaborate 3-way full range with a cast football-shaped concrete cabinet.

At the end of the day the Host dragged out a pair of $300 Celestion
speakers
they used as monitors on the test bench. This moderate cost speaker
literally
blew away ALL the projects brought in that day.

While it is true that some of my friends have made some very good sounding
home-brew speakers the main reason to RYO full range or satellite speakers
is
for unusual/custom style, shape or finish. Brands like Paradigm,PSB and a
few
others simply have the engineering/manufacturing/distribution chains to
make
better speakers than most people can build for LESS money.

It is true that some (not all) of the more modern kits supply the
engineering
for the DIY and so the job is easier than it has ever been. (Anyone who
bought
expensive Dynaudio drivers on the hobbyist market in the 80-90s knows that
no
two cone drivers were ever supplied as specified and seldom would you get
2
that seemed to be clones on one another.....I think they may have sold OEM
overruns and rejects to us under a single part number) but the real reason
for
DIY, with one exception, today is the "custom; I made it myself" appeal
and not
performance.

That exception is full-band high dynamic capability subwoofers. An
enthusiast
simply cannot buy a commerical subwoofer today that will play all
commerically
available recordings at reference levels.

That's the primary reason I use a DIY subwoofer; no commercial unit(s)
will
deliver 120 dB @ 2 meters 10% distortion from 10 - 62 Hz to compliment
the
recordings that I own which have significant output at 10 Hz and even
below.
Couldn't find one on the market so I had to make my own. This particular
one
also consumes no floor space and is invisible from the listening position
so it
satisfies the 'style' quotient as well.

And I'm not alone. You'll find an excellent description of a DIY subwoofer
and
DIY full range speaker systems published in Audio Express and the old
Speaker
Builder made by my colleague Tom Parazella. Neither of these was a casual
"I'll
just do this myself" undertaking. IMO it's this level of involvement that
truly
justifies a DIY approach in todays environment of some damn good
commercial
speakers for a modest outlay.

It's still true that there are many bad performing loudspeakers at every
price
level (it sometimes seems that the more expensive the lesser the
performance)
but there are also some great ones for next to nothing.

I don't mean to discourage DIY. But don't spend a lot of money before
trying a
modest speaker system first to test the water.

I'm kind of surprised that there aren't more commercial tear-offs. By that
I
mean a good sounding set of commercial speakers put in a custom cabinet or
otherwise modified to fit a given situation.

good advice, have fun, spend a few hundred dollars and build some speakers,
if they work reasonably well they can be used in the Garage,
or given away as a present.

"MINe 109" wrote in message
...
In article 0UHJb.725126$HS4.5409263@attbi_s01,
"malcolm" wrote:

"MINe 109" wrote in message
...
In article rxGJb.739539$Fm2.663166@attbi_s04,
"malcolm" wrote:

"bored malcolm" wrote in message
news:LbGJb.50481$xX.270653@attbi_s02...
hello folks
why do people go out and spend multiple thousands on Loudspeakers.
when you can build your own for a fraction of the price.
are people lazy, stupid or just have too much money to spend
regards malcolm



any takers

Incorrect premise, followed by insults.


whats the appeal of $5000, $10,000 and god forbid I saw recently $30,000
pair of Loudspeakers?

Statements.

for less than say $250 you can build a decent set of Loudspeakers,
go a bit wild and double or quadruple if use $200 drivers.
I would rather get my hands dirty and cut the wood, breathe in the
fibreglass strands,

Hello, lung ward...

and clean the glue off my hands at the end of a day and look proudly at
something I made myself.
and if it doesnt work then tweak or remake the buggers,
you can always reuse most of the bits too.

No one's stopping you.

see my website


--
¸.·´¯`·.¸((((º.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸((((º.·´¯`·.¸
LED Headlamps and Sea Fishing UK
http://www.geocities.com/malc_hurn
¸.·´¯`·.¸((((º.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸((((º.·´¯`·.¸

"malcolm" wrote in
news:MNNJb.52833$xX.297762@attbi_s02:


"Rich Andrews" wrote in message
.44...
"malcolm" wrote in
news:bZHJb.739898$Fm2.665386@attbi_s04:


"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

"malcolm" wrote in message
news:LbGJb.50481$xX.270653@attbi_s02...
hello folks
why do people go out and spend multiple thousands on Loudspeakers.
when you can build your own for a fraction of the price.
are people lazy, stupid or just have too much money to spend
regards malcolm


I suspect it's fear of messing it up, coupled with having no idea of
how
it
will sound when done. I assume you're referring to kits available
from
many
places. Unless you live near to a place that sells them and has
them on display, the odds are you're getting a pig in poke.

If most folks knew what kind of quality was available from kit
suppliers,
I
think there'd be more participation. Those from Dynaudio, like the
TWYNN, which I've built, or those like the Thor from SEAS designed
by Joe D'appolito or any of his Focal designs offer big bang for the
buck.

For those without tools and/or expertise in cabinet making Zalytron
will build them for you. Crossovers are generally sent assembled,
so the only thing really needed is a screwdriver and a crimping tool
or soldering
iron.

--
¸.·´¯`·.¸((((º.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸((((º.·´¯`·.¸
LED Headlamps and Sea Fishing UK
http://www.geocities.com/malc_hurn
¸.·´¯`·.¸((((º.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸((((º.·´¯`·.¸





and www.Partexpress.com sell all sorts of drivers and baffles and
part assembled kits,
from bare cabinets to veneered ones, granted not monster hi-fi
speakers, but a start for people to get used to building.
go here and see what is possible if you are willing to try DIY.
http://www.diyaudio.com/
Western Civilisation is supposed to be about participation not
communistic consumerism.
regards malcolm




If you want to build your own, go for it. I have entirely too much
respect for the craft of speaker building to do it the injustice that I
would bring upon it by engineering my own. Been there and got the
t-shirt.

BTW communism wasn't about choices. It was about everyone having the
same. DO you know how many different cars they had in the former
Soviet Union? Do you know what colors were available? There was only
one car and you had your choice of black.


r

--
Nothing beats the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with DLT tapes.



what choice in the average Hi-Fi magazine..... everybody gets an A.
Never a bad review and so much psuedo science its hilarious,
I never bought another Hi-Fi rag again, after reading a wow review of
GOLD plated mains plugs.
Consumer Communism in my mind is about people blindly following the
herd, any colour you like Sir, as long as its Black, bring back Silver
and Wood scared to think for themselves, a bullet or ridicule whats
the difference. regards malcolm




Malcolm,

Some of your criticisms mirror mine, so don't feel that you are alone.
The truth is a bit tough to find at times, but if one perseveres, the
rewards are worth it AFAIC. YMMV. Many times people do not want to hear
the truth and prefer mysticism because it is a helluva lot more
entertaining.

WRT the relative beauty of a bit of gear and whether or not it should be
silver, black, white, etc, is something that you have to decide upon
yourself. I am not particularly in love with the looks of my equipment,
but it sounds great all the same and it doesn't fail. I could probably
withstand almost any color provided I get some good sound out of it.

Blindly following the herd is not the same as being presented with a
single choice IMO.

r



--
Nothing beats the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with DLT tapes.

On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 23:09:59 GMT, "malcolm"
wrote:

Western Civilisation is supposed to be about participation not communistic
consumerism.

s******

Stick to trolling with your fishing.

"malcolm" wrote in message
news:OQNJb.735488$Tr4.1972150@attbi_s03...

"MINe 109" wrote in message
...
In article 0UHJb.725126$HS4.5409263@attbi_s01,
"malcolm" wrote:

"MINe 109" wrote in message
...
In article rxGJb.739539$Fm2.663166@attbi_s04,
"malcolm" wrote:

"bored malcolm" wrote in message
news:LbGJb.50481$xX.270653@attbi_s02...
hello folks
why do people go out and spend multiple thousands on
Loudspeakers.
when you can build your own for a fraction of the price.
are people lazy, stupid or just have too much money to spend
regards malcolm



any takers

Incorrect premise, followed by insults.


whats the appeal of $5000, $10,000 and god forbid I saw recently
$30,000
pair of Loudspeakers?

Statements.

for less than say $250 you can build a decent set of Loudspeakers,
go a bit wild and double or quadruple if use $200 drivers.
I would rather get my hands dirty and cut the wood, breathe in the
fibreglass strands,

Hello, lung ward...

and clean the glue off my hands at the end of a day and look proudly
at
something I made myself.
and if it doesnt work then tweak or remake the buggers,
you can always reuse most of the bits too.

No one's stopping you.

see my website

Trotsky tried: http://www.jupiter-audio.com
Think you're smarter than he is?
It wouldn't be hard.

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"malcolm" wrote in message
news:LbGJb.50481$xX.270653@attbi_s02...

hello folks
why do people go out and spend multiple thousands on Loudspeakers.
when you can build your own for a fraction of the price.
are people lazy, stupid or just have too much money to spend
regards malcolm

Probably the same reason they don't raise their own cattle,
build there own houses, ferment their own wine, and churn
their own butter.

Every year, thousands, even ten's of thousands of people in the US do in
fact perform each of these *death-defying* acts. None of them are exactly
rocket science. 100 years ago, even more people did this - a substantial
fraction of the population.

Why not now? Convenience. Other things to do.

On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 06:10:15 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"malcolm" wrote in message
news:LbGJb.50481$xX.270653@attbi_s02...

hello folks
why do people go out and spend multiple thousands on Loudspeakers.
when you can build your own for a fraction of the price.
are people lazy, stupid or just have too much money to spend
regards malcolm

Probably the same reason they don't raise their own cattle,
build there own houses, ferment their own wine, and churn
their own butter.

Every year, thousands, even ten's of thousands of people in the US do in
fact perform each of these *death-defying* acts.

That's a fraction of the number of people who buy LPs.

chuckle

None of them are exactly
rocket science. 100 years ago, even more people did this - a substantial
fraction of the population.

And how many of those people built their own speakers?

chuckle

Why not now? Convenience. Other things to do.

Now you finally said something relevant. You forgot to add: wide
variety of choice of different designs of loudspeakers and a high
level of quality.

dave weil said:

wide variety of choice of different designs of loudspeakers and a high
level of quality.

I think the key point in the original troll was this:

have too much money to spend

"Too much money" is a relative term. For Krooger, as one example, $78K
per year is unimaginable wealth, equivalent in his warped mind to an
income in the millions. Lionella la Salope, RAO's sewer worker,
probably earns the equivalent of $25K. I wonder what "malcolm" does
for a living. Coffee-shop attendant? Factory worker? Sad to say, there
are a lot more low-paying jobs than high-paying ones. Too bad
communism is such a disaster in the real world......

On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 09:47:46 -0500, George M. Middius
wrote:



dave weil said:

wide variety of choice of different designs of loudspeakers and a high
level of quality.

I think the key point in the original troll was this:

have too much money to spend

Yes, but your next comment is why I didn't address it.

"Too much money" is a relative term. For Krooger, as one example, $78K
per year is unimaginable wealth, equivalent in his warped mind to an
income in the millions.

I think he even mentioned something about 2K speakers, as if *they*
were too expensive.

I wonder if he builds his own fishing rods. I notice that on one
fishing site, he calls a lure that costs about $4 overpriced. So, we
see where his priorities are. That's why I took his "question" nothing
more than a troll, pure and simple. Plus, when he talked about
"consumer communism" I knew that he didn't have much of a clue.

Lionella la Salope, RAO's sewer worker,
probably earns the equivalent of $25K. I wonder what "malcolm" does
for a living. Coffee-shop attendant? Factory worker? Sad to say, there
are a lot more low-paying jobs than high-paying ones. Too bad
communism is such a disaster in the real world......

Heck, *I* earn about the equivalent of about $25K a year (between that
and $30K). Of course, if I worked as much as I could, I would *still*
only make about the equivalent of less than $40k (probably). It
certainly limits my choices when it comes to speakers, but I don't
begrudge those that can afford nicer speakers.

Maybe I should get back into restaurant management ,g.

No wait, I'm not ready to be a babysitter again...

Heck, *I* earn about the equivalent of about $25K a year (between that
and $30K). Of course, if I worked as much as I could, I would *still*
only make about the equivalent of less than $40k (probably). It
certainly limits my choices when it comes to speakers, but I don't
begrudge those that can afford nicer speakers.

Maybe I should get back into restaurant management ,g.

No wait, I'm not ready to be a babysitter again...

It can often be a balancing act between enjoyment of one's occupation and
enjoyment of one's free time.

S888Wheel said:

No wait, I'm not ready to be a babysitter again...

It can often be a balancing act between enjoyment of one's occupation and
enjoyment of one's free time.

Say "enjoyment of free time" to an audio 'borg, and you'll get that
deer-caught-in-the-headlights look in return.

"malcolm" wrote in message
news:bZHJb.739898$Fm2.665386@attbi_s04...

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

"malcolm" wrote in message
news:LbGJb.50481$xX.270653@attbi_s02...
hello folks
why do people go out and spend multiple thousands on Loudspeakers.
when you can build your own for a fraction of the price.
are people lazy, stupid or just have too much money to spend
regards malcolm


I suspect it's fear of messing it up, coupled with having no idea of how
it
will sound when done. I assume you're referring to kits available from
many
places. Unless you live near to a place that sells them and has them on
display, the odds are you're getting a pig in poke.

If most folks knew what kind of quality was available from kit
suppliers,
I
think there'd be more participation. Those from Dynaudio, like the
TWYNN,
which I've built, or those like the Thor from SEAS designed by Joe
D'appolito or any of his Focal designs offer big bang for the buck.

For those without tools and/or expertise in cabinet making Zalytron will
build them for you. Crossovers are generally sent assembled, so the
only
thing really needed is a screwdriver and a crimping tool or soldering
iron.

--
¸.·´¯`·.¸((((º.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸((((º.·´¯`·.¸
LED Headlamps and Sea Fishing UK
http://www.geocities.com/malc_hurn
¸.·´¯`·.¸((((º.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸((((º.·´¯`·.¸





and www.Partexpress.com sell all sorts of drivers and baffles and part
assembled kits,
from bare cabinets to veneered ones, granted not monster hi-fi speakers,
but a start for people to get used to building.
go here and see what is possible if you are willing to try DIY.
http://www.diyaudio.com/
Western Civilisation is supposed to be about participation not communistic
consumerism.
regards malcolm



Where does it say that? Did I miss a meeting?

Capitalism is about providing what people will pay for, that audio equipment
is less available for DIYers is evidence that either people aren't all that
interested.

"malcolm" wrote in message
news:rxGJb.739539$Fm2.663166@attbi_s04...

"bored malcolm" wrote in message
news:LbGJb.50481$xX.270653@attbi_s02...
hello folks
why do people go out and spend multiple thousands on Loudspeakers.
when you can build your own for a fraction of the price.
are people lazy, stupid or just have too much money to spend
regards malcolm



any takers

Sure. I'm a sucker. People spend lots of money on speakers because
they buy into the theory that you get what you pay for, and that it
applies to speakers just as it does elsewhere in life. The issue then
reduces to how much quality you want and how much you can afford to
pay. If you ask the internet for recommendations for the best sound
under $3000, you may get a dozen different answers, but you can be
sure they will all be close to $3000--possibly even more ("If you can
stretch that budget a bit farther there's the wonderful XXXX
speakers.") What this boils down to is the belief that speakers,
alone among hi-fi components, are perceived to return value for your
dollar to a greater degree than receivers, CD players, etc.

As you might imagine, I don't believe any of this. I think there's a
price for every component--including speakers--beyond which you're no
longer buying recognizable quality. You're getting something, maybe
something worthwhile, but it isn't sound quality. What is that
price? Let me go out on a limb and say $200/pr. Then what do you
get for $3000/pr?

1. Better looking furniture
2. Ability to maintain quality to a much higher SPL
3. Further extension of the frequency range--especially into the
bass.
4. Bragging rights
5. A place to put your money where others might approve.

If you don't play music at such a level that your wife complains,
don't have expensive furniture in the listening room, don't listen to
a lot of pipe organ music, and your friends have no idea how much
speakers cost, you can do quite well for $200. Just tell your friends
and neighbors that they cost $3000.

Happy New Year,

Norm Strong

Uncle Troll wants to lead today's anti-audio snot service.

People spend lots of money on speakers because
they buy into the theory that you get what you pay for, and that it
applies to speakers just as it does elsewhere in life.

People smack you in the chops because .... well, because you're a
****ing idiot.

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

"malcolm" wrote in message
news:LbGJb.50481$xX.270653@attbi_s02...
hello folks
why do people go out and spend multiple thousands on Loudspeakers.
when you can build your own for a fraction of the price.
are people lazy, stupid or just have too much money to spend
regards malcolm


Probably the same reason they don't raise their own cattle,
build there own houses, ferment their own wine, and churn
their own butter.




----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
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100,000 Newsgroups
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Encryption =---

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

"malcolm" wrote in message
news:LbGJb.50481$xX.270653@attbi_s02...
hello folks
why do people go out and spend multiple thousands on Loudspeakers.
when you can build your own for a fraction of the price.
are people lazy, stupid or just have too much money to spend
regards malcolm


I'm curious. At what point is something properly referred to as "a
fraction of the price." Technically speaking, 75% is a fraction of
the price, viz. 3/4. Can any number higher than 1/2 still be
considered a fraction of the price?

Norm Strong

"normanstrong" wrote in message
news:qBZJb.219140$8y1.818231@attbi_s52...

"malcolm" wrote in message
news:rxGJb.739539$Fm2.663166@attbi_s04...

"bored malcolm" wrote in message
news:LbGJb.50481$xX.270653@attbi_s02...
hello folks
why do people go out and spend multiple thousands on Loudspeakers.
when you can build your own for a fraction of the price.
are people lazy, stupid or just have too much money to spend
regards malcolm



any takers

Sure. I'm a sucker. People spend lots of money on speakers because
they buy into the theory that you get what you pay for, and that it
applies to speakers just as it does elsewhere in life. The issue then
reduces to how much quality you want and how much you can afford to
pay. If you ask the internet for recommendations for the best sound
under $3000, you may get a dozen different answers, but you can be
sure they will all be close to $3000--possibly even more ("If you can
stretch that budget a bit farther there's the wonderful XXXX
speakers.") What this boils down to is the belief that speakers,
alone among hi-fi components, are perceived to return value for your
dollar to a greater degree than receivers, CD players, etc.

As you might imagine, I don't believe any of this. I think there's a
price for every component--including speakers--beyond which you're no
longer buying recognizable quality. You're getting something, maybe
something worthwhile, but it isn't sound quality. What is that
price? Let me go out on a limb and say $200/pr. Then what do you
get for $3000/pr?

1. Better looking furniture
2. Ability to maintain quality to a much higher SPL
3. Further extension of the frequency range--especially into the
bass.
4. Bragging rights
5. A place to put your money where others might approve.

If you don't play music at such a level that your wife complains,
don't have expensive furniture in the listening room, don't listen to
a lot of pipe organ music, and your friends have no idea how much
speakers cost, you can do quite well for $200. Just tell your friends
and neighbors that they cost $3000.

Happy New Year,

Norm Strong



That leaves Ferstler $7,600 to polish up his wrecking ball.




----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

Uncle Troll has been inspecting his navel again.

I'm curious. At what point is something properly referred to as "a
fraction of the price." Technically speaking, 75% is a fraction of
the price, viz. 3/4. Can any number higher than 1/2 still be
considered a fraction of the price?

You must be very bored.

"normanstrong" wrote in message
news:6RZJb.219262$8y1.819691@attbi_s52...

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

"malcolm" wrote in message
news:LbGJb.50481$xX.270653@attbi_s02...
hello folks
why do people go out and spend multiple thousands on Loudspeakers.
when you can build your own for a fraction of the price.
are people lazy, stupid or just have too much money to spend
regards malcolm


I'm curious. At what point is something properly referred to as "a
fraction of the price." Technically speaking, 75% is a fraction of
the price, viz. 3/4. Can any number higher than 1/2 still be
considered a fraction of the price?

Norm Strong



Hey IDIOT:
Those words did NOT come from me.
Next time you use my name in vain, I'm gonna
charge you $200, so I can go out and buy
the best pair of speakers in the world.




----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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"normanstrong" wrote in message
news:qBZJb.219140$8y1.818231@attbi_s52...

"malcolm" wrote in message
news:rxGJb.739539$Fm2.663166@attbi_s04...

"bored malcolm" wrote in message
news:LbGJb.50481$xX.270653@attbi_s02...
hello folks
why do people go out and spend multiple thousands on Loudspeakers.
when you can build your own for a fraction of the price.
are people lazy, stupid or just have too much money to spend
regards malcolm



any takers

Sure. I'm a sucker. People spend lots of money on speakers because
they buy into the theory that you get what you pay for, and that it
applies to speakers just as it does elsewhere in life. The issue then
reduces to how much quality you want and how much you can afford to
pay. If you ask the internet for recommendations for the best sound
under $3000, you may get a dozen different answers, but you can be
sure they will all be close to $3000--possibly even more ("If you can
stretch that budget a bit farther there's the wonderful XXXX
speakers.") What this boils down to is the belief that speakers,
alone among hi-fi components, are perceived to return value for your
dollar to a greater degree than receivers, CD players, etc.

As you might imagine, I don't believe any of this. I think there's a
price for every component--including speakers--beyond which you're no
longer buying recognizable quality. You're getting something, maybe
something worthwhile, but it isn't sound quality. What is that
price? Let me go out on a limb and say $200/pr. Then what do you
get for $3000/pr?

1. Better looking furniture
2. Ability to maintain quality to a much higher SPL
3. Further extension of the frequency range--especially into the
bass.
4. Bragging rights
5. A place to put your money where others might approve.

If you don't play music at such a level that your wife complains,
don't have expensive furniture in the listening room, don't listen to
a lot of pipe organ music, and your friends have no idea how much
speakers cost, you can do quite well for $200. Just tell your friends
and neighbors that they cost $3000.

Happy New Year,

Norm Strong



well said Norm

"George M. Middius" wrote in message
...


Uncle Troll wants to lead today's anti-audio snot service.

People spend lots of money on speakers because
they buy into the theory that you get what you pay for, and that it
applies to speakers just as it does elsewhere in life.

People smack you in the chops because .... well, because you're a
****ing idiot.




George, do you make or sell Loudspeakers by any chance?

"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 23:09:59 GMT, "malcolm"
wrote:

Western Civilisation is supposed to be about participation not
communistic
consumerism.

s******

Stick to trolling with your fishing.

trolling in fishing isn't real fishing
real fishing is standing on a storm swept beach, pier, sea wall freezing
your ahem,
and wishing you were home......

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
news
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"malcolm" wrote in message
news:LbGJb.50481$xX.270653@attbi_s02...

hello folks
why do people go out and spend multiple thousands on Loudspeakers.
when you can build your own for a fraction of the price.
are people lazy, stupid or just have too much money to spend
regards malcolm

Probably the same reason they don't raise their own cattle,
build there own houses, ferment their own wine, and churn
their own butter.

Every year, thousands, even ten's of thousands of people in the US do in
fact perform each of these *death-defying* acts. None of them are exactly
rocket science. 100 years ago, even more people did this - a substantial
fraction of the population.

Why not now? Convenience. Other things to do.





if people don't have the tools or the time to get their own hands dirty,
find a design or draw something up, and outsourcer the building.
plenty of local cabinet makers would be glad to do the assembly.
and finish them off to an acceptable finish too.
99% of people have the time and tools to fit the internals.
regards malcolm

"George M. Middius" wrote in message
...


dave weil said:

wide variety of choice of different designs of loudspeakers and a high
level of quality.

I think the key point in the original troll was this:

have too much money to spend

"Too much money" is a relative term. For Krooger, as one example, $78K
per year is unimaginable wealth, equivalent in his warped mind to an
income in the millions. Lionella la Salope, RAO's sewer worker,
probably earns the equivalent of $25K. I wonder what "malcolm" does
for a living. Coffee-shop attendant? Factory worker? Sad to say, there
are a lot more low-paying jobs than high-paying ones. Too bad
communism is such a disaster in the real world......





I spent 22 years in Industrial Electronics in the UK, doing various jobs,
now that I live in the USA, I build Custom Trucks for a change.
my gripe isnt that people shoundnt go out and buy ready made,
just that they should try DIY, they might enjoy it and learn something about
L/Ss
regards malcolm

"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 09:47:46 -0500, George M. Middius
wrote:



dave weil said:

wide variety of choice of different designs of loudspeakers and a high
level of quality.

I think the key point in the original troll was this:

have too much money to spend

Yes, but your next comment is why I didn't address it.

"Too much money" is a relative term. For Krooger, as one example, $78K
per year is unimaginable wealth, equivalent in his warped mind to an
income in the millions.

I think he even mentioned something about 2K speakers, as if *they*
were too expensive.

I wonder if he builds his own fishing rods. I notice that on one
fishing site, he calls a lure that costs about $4 overpriced. So, we
see where his priorities are. That's why I took his "question" nothing
more than a troll, pure and simple. Plus, when he talked about
"consumer communism" I knew that he didn't have much of a clue.

never to my knowdgle have I commented on a Lure!
I am not a great fan of that side of the sport,
YES I have built a fishing rod, I have one here that I made early in 93,
and I dont mean just putting some rings (guides) on.
and repairs and modifications to various others.


Communism was all about fitting in, and not rasing your voice, criticising
etc.
follow the herd and be a good citizen and buy whats being sold to you.
not a lot different from the Audiophille scene today I think.
follow the party line or else......


Lionella la Salope, RAO's sewer worker,
probably earns the equivalent of $25K. I wonder what "malcolm" does
for a living. Coffee-shop attendant? Factory worker? Sad to say, there
are a lot more low-paying jobs than high-paying ones. Too bad
communism is such a disaster in the real world......

Heck, *I* earn about the equivalent of about $25K a year (between that
and $30K). Of course, if I worked as much as I could, I would *still*
only make about the equivalent of less than $40k (probably). It
certainly limits my choices when it comes to speakers, but I don't
begrudge those that can afford nicer speakers.

Maybe I should get back into restaurant management ,g.

No wait, I'm not ready to be a babysitter again...