I'm designing a simple speaker stand. My question is: if the speaker will
sit on a kind of spring or rather if the whole stand is a slightly
springy-like, will this somehow affect the sound coming from the speaker
compared to if the speaker was on a heavy and solid object? This stand is
not necessarily for high-end use, but certainly hifi, or at least I hope so.
So should a speaker stand be very solid to prevent vibration of the stand.
The speaker's weight is about 6-8kg.

ps. If you know any nice looking short, about 40cm high speaker stands, I'd
be delighted to check it out.

"Kalle Heinänen" wrote in message
...
I'm designing a simple speaker stand. My question is: if the speaker will
sit on a kind of spring or rather if the whole stand is a slightly
springy-like, will this somehow affect the sound coming from the speaker
compared to if the speaker was on a heavy and solid object? This stand is
not necessarily for high-end use, but certainly hifi, or at least I hope
so. So should a speaker stand be very solid to prevent vibration of the
stand. The speaker's weight is about 6-8kg.

ps. If you know any nice looking short, about 40cm high speaker stands,
I'd be delighted to check it out.

Why would you want the stands to be springy at all? Assuming the
springiness si not enough to make teh speaker unstable, itshouldn't be a
problem.

Speaker stands do only one thing, they raise the speaker so the tweeter is
at ear level, thereby allowing one to hear the direct sound from them. They
do not have to be massive, sand filled or lead filled, they do not add
vibration and they do not have any other effect on the speakers.

wrote in message
. net...

"Kalle Heinänen" wrote in message

Please ignore "nyob". He is rao's village idiot, a complete incompetent.

Regards,
Bob Morein

Robert Morein said:

Please ignore "nyob". He is rao's village idiot, a complete incompetent.

Unless you have a bug problem, in which case calling in Mickey is an act of
charity.

"George M. Middius" cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net wrote
in message ...


Robert Morein said:

Please ignore "nyob". He is rao's village idiot, a complete incompetent.

Unless you have a bug problem, in which case calling in Mickey is an act
of
charity.

Can Mikey fix buggy computers?

Robert Morein said:

Please ignore "nyob". He is rao's village idiot, a complete incompetent.

Unless you have a bug problem, in which case calling in Mickey is an act
of charity.

Can Mikey fix buggy computers?

Mikey has a baseball bat. That's his only tool. Whether it works in his
clumsy paws is a subjective matter. :-)

"Kalle Heinänen" wrote in message
...
I'm designing a simple speaker stand. My question is: if the speaker will
sit on a kind of spring or rather if the whole stand is a slightly
springy-like, will this somehow affect the sound coming from the speaker
compared to if the speaker was on a heavy and solid object? This stand is
not necessarily for high-end use, but certainly hifi, or at least I hope
so. So should a speaker stand be very solid to prevent vibration of the
stand. The speaker's weight is about 6-8kg.

ps. If you know any nice looking short, about 40cm high speaker stands,
I'd be delighted to check it out.
Do not put the speakers on springs. Speaker cabinets are not inert. They
vibrate. In the case of a strong resonance, the level of sound emitted by
the cabinet approaches that emitted by the driver. A good support system is
not springy.

Physics tells us that the speaker stand should not be perfectly rigid
either; it should be mildly deformable, with very high "loss", ie, it should
convert vibration into heat quickly. However, I am unaware of any commercial
speaker stands that attempt anything more than complete rigidity.

But certainly do not go for springs! Don't try to bounce that idea around

Physics tells us that the speaker stand should not be perfectly rigid
either; it should be mildly deformable, with very high "loss", ie, it
should convert vibration into heat quickly.

Ok! Thanks for your answer. I'm actually thinking about just having this
maybe 0.6-0.9cm thick metal strip, folded at top and bottom, forming
something like letter E without the middle line. So it's not a spring, but
perhaps more springy than average stands. Any comments about this idea?
Naturally I have to make sure that it doesn't break or twist (or at least
try to make sure)..

"Kalle Heinänen" wrote in message
...
Physics tells us that the speaker stand should not be perfectly rigid
either; it should be mildly deformable, with very high "loss", ie, it
should convert vibration into heat quickly.

Ok! Thanks for your answer. I'm actually thinking about just having this
maybe 0.6-0.9cm thick metal strip, folded at top and bottom, forming
something like letter E without the middle line. So it's not a spring, but
perhaps more springy than average stands. Any comments about this idea?
Naturally I have to make sure that it doesn't break or twist (or at least
try to make sure)..
Bad idea. An ideal stand would be made of a non bouncy material. To wit: a
superball is made of a very low loss rubber, so the ball bounces for a long
time. Silly putty, or clay, when thrown at a surface, barely rebounds. IOW,
the kinetic energy of the moving blob of putty is converted quickly into
heat.

There is a material sold for attaching speakers to stands in a temporary
fashion. The trade name is "blue tack", which appears to be a form of butyl
rubber, possibly combined with a clay filler. This material is plastic, but
not bouncy.

There are a number of nutty beliefs among high enders regarding the proper
way to support/suspend components, centered around the use of pointy cones.
But what is actually needed is much less romantic. The desired support
system acts as an absorptive damper for transfer of mechanical energy from
the speaker cabinet.

Ironically, a perfectly rigid stand won't work at this either, because a
perfectly rigid stand is incapable of receiving energy.

Ironically, a perfectly rigid stand won't work at this either,
because a perfectly rigid stand is incapable of receiving energy.

Do you have an educated guess - if my twisted metal stand will affect the
sound somehow, then how does it affect? Maybe slightly dampen some of the
lower frequencies? Maybe the twisted piece of metal can even act as a comb
filter? Could it even possibly reduce transient playback?

Any ideas what kind of music or test signals I should listen to if I build
this stand and then test it out?

"Kalle Heinänen" wrote in message
...
Ironically, a perfectly rigid stand won't work at this either,
because a perfectly rigid stand is incapable of receiving energy.

Do you have an educated guess - if my twisted metal stand will affect the
sound somehow, then how does it affect? Maybe slightly dampen some of the
lower frequencies?

It won't dampen anything. It will simply allow the cabinet to ring like a
bell. Do you want your speaker to be a carillion?

Maybe the twisted piece of metal can even act as a comb
filter? Could it even possibly reduce transient playback?

Any ideas what kind of music or test signals I should listen to if I build
this stand and then test it out?
Steel is not a good absorber. Commercial steel stands are frequently
designed to be packed with sand, because the sand takes it from the steel.

There are two areas that audiophiles sometimes notice. In the midrange, the
speaker cabinet can radiate as much sound as the midrange, at a particularly
strong resonance. You may be able to hear this as an extra unwanted tone. It
is sometimes also felt that the bass is compromised. The listener may feel
that the bass is too strong, or "one note", due to the radiation from the
cabinet.

Do you perhaps have an opportunity to make the top of the stand a pan that
could hold:

1. concrete?
2. clay and gravel?

You can lay on top of the composite another sheet of steel, with slight
spacing, so it would not detract too much.

There are many sophisticated materials specifically for damping vibrations.
Typically, these are layered: sandwiches of wood and lead, gypsum sheet,
etc. But the simple solution is to use steel in boxes and tubes, because
this is inherently rigid, and attach the speakers to the stands using a
material such as Blue-Tack.

Kalle Heinänen a écrit :
Ironically, a perfectly rigid stand won't work at this either,
because a perfectly rigid stand is incapable of receiving energy.


Do you have an educated guess - if my twisted metal stand will affect the
sound somehow, then how does it affect? Maybe slightly dampen some of the
lower frequencies? Maybe the twisted piece of metal can even act as a comb
filter? Could it even possibly reduce transient playback?

Any ideas what kind of music or test signals I should listen to if I build
this stand and then test it out?

Pipes full of sand are OK.
You can link 2 MDF baseplates with one (why not 2 or 3 of different
diameter ?)

Material ? PVC, copper, PE...

Wish you some fun.

Ok I was experimenting with my speaker on a rigid stand, speaker in air and
speaker on a pillow. The speaker was a Genelec 1030. Observations:

1. In this room, the vibration felt with the whole body changes
dramatically. It's not obvious whether vibration felt with body would be
good or bad, but in a way the vibration does a bit emphasize the transients
(from bass to mid) and in that way it is nice - but not necessary by any
means.

2. The position of the speaker, position of head and angle of head greatly
changes the sound.

3. The sound did not change between rigid stand, speaker in air and speaker
on a pillow. At least not nearly as much as the effect of points 1 and 2.

The metal design may have its own quirks though.

"Kalle Heinänen" wrote

Do you have an educated guess - if my twisted metal stand will affect the
sound somehow, then how does it affect?
Depending on what frequencies the speaker
and speaker stands are compliant in, the
loudness will drop/attenuate.


Maybe slightly dampen some of the lower frequencies?
You will see multiple frequencies being
effected, if effective. Mid to upper bass
and midrange are the easiest to control.


Maybe the twisted piece of metal can even act as a comb filter? Could it
even possibly reduce transient playback?

Please define what you mean by "transient
playback?"


Any ideas what kind of music or test signals I should listen to if I build
this stand and then test it out?
IME, because multiple frequencies are
involved testing should be done using single
or wobble frequency test bands, as opposed
to Pink or White noise. Stereophile has one
for $10 or you can use a computer to burn a
CD with them on it.

By recording and then comparing the sound
pressure differences of the speakers on or
off the stand you should see an
accumulative/significant overall dB output
drop from the speakers. Comparing two
speakers one on the stand an one off you
should notice a sound balance/loudness
difference.

"Kalle Heinänen" wrote in message
...
Physics tells us that the speaker stand should not be perfectly rigid
either; it should be mildly deformable, with very high "loss", ie, it
should convert vibration into heat quickly.

Physics tells us nothing of the kind. Speaker stands do not convert
vibration into heat at all. This is nonsense. Naturally, you want a stand
that can support the speaker weight and that isn't likely to tip over.
Beyond elevating the speaker to ear level there is nothing else significant
about speaker stands. I would suggest you ask the same question over on
rec.audio.tech and mention the alleged vibratin to heat problem and see what
kind of response you get.



Ok! Thanks for your answer. I'm actually thinking about just having this
maybe 0.6-0.9cm thick metal strip, folded at top and bottom, forming
something like letter E without the middle line. So it's not a spring, but
perhaps more springy than average stands. Any comments about this idea?
Naturally I have to make sure that it doesn't break or twist (or at least
try to make sure)..

Make the stand with a base that is just slightly smaller than the bottom of
the speaker. You can use wood or I've seen some DIY stands made form
plastic pipe filled with sand for stability.

wrote in message
. net...

"Kalle Heinänen" wrote in message
...
Physics tells us that the speaker stand should not be perfectly rigid
either; it should be mildly deformable, with very high "loss", ie, it
should convert vibration into heat quickly.

Physics tells us nothing of the kind. Speaker stands do not convert
vibration into heat at all. This is nonsense.

Kalle,
I was a Ph.D candidate in theoretical physics. Mikey is a tradesman who
is into the physics of beer. I suggest you ignore him.

Regards,
Bob Morein

On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 17:43:36 -0500, "Robert Morein"
wrote:


wrote in message
.net...

"Kalle Heinänen" wrote in message
...
Physics tells us that the speaker stand should not be perfectly rigid
either; it should be mildly deformable, with very high "loss", ie, it
should convert vibration into heat quickly.

Physics tells us nothing of the kind. Speaker stands do not convert
vibration into heat at all. This is nonsense.

Kalle,
I was a Ph.D candidate in theoretical physics.

How did it go?



Mikey is a tradesman who
is into the physics of beer. I suggest you ignore him.

Regards,
Bob Morein

Robert Morein wrote:
wrote in message
. net...

"Kalle Heinänen" wrote in message
...
Physics tells us that the speaker stand should not be perfectly rigid
either; it should be mildly deformable, with very high "loss", ie, it
should convert vibration into heat quickly.

Physics tells us nothing of the kind. Speaker stands do not convert
vibration into heat at all. This is nonsense.

Kalle,
I was a Ph.D candidate

Candidate.... or reject? Why don't you tell him what the courts
decided.

Bob Morein, Ph.D Reject.... with the court papers to prove it.

ScottW

wrote

Physics tells us nothing of the kind. Speaker stands do not convert
vibration into heat at all. This is nonsense.

What???

When resonant is dissipated where do
you think it goes?


Naturally, you want a stand that can support the speaker weight and that
isn't likely to tip over.
Agreed.

Beyond elevating the speaker to ear level there is nothing else
significant about speaker stands.
Hehehe... oh-right!


I would suggest you ask the same question
over on rec.audio.tech and mention the alleged vibratin to heat problem
and see what kind of response you get.

So your basis of knowledge on the subject
is what others tell you? How about doing
the work yourself, mr. Arm-chair
Commander?

"Powell" wrote in message
...

wrote

Physics tells us nothing of the kind. Speaker stands do not convert
vibration into heat at all. This is nonsense.

What???

When resonant is dissipated where do
you think it goes?


Naturally, you want a stand that can support the speaker weight and that
isn't likely to tip over.
Agreed.

Beyond elevating the speaker to ear level there is nothing else
significant about speaker stands.
Hehehe... oh-right!


I would suggest you ask the same question
over on rec.audio.tech and mention the alleged vibratin to heat problem
and see what kind of response you get.

So your basis of knowledge on the subject
is what others tell you? How about doing
the work yourself, mr. Arm-chair
Commander?

You have my permission to degrade this idiot.
IMHO, Mikey holds down last place in IQ, and first place in disinformation.

"Powell" wrote in message
...

wrote

Physics tells us nothing of the kind. Speaker stands do not convert
vibration into heat at all. This is nonsense.

What???

When resonant is dissipated where do
you think it goes?

Resonance from where? From the speakers? Any vibration from the speaker
cabinets is going to be so small as to be unworthy of mentioning. Any
vibrations would most certainly be absorbed by the room much more than the
stands.


Naturally, you want a stand that can support the speaker weight and that
isn't likely to tip over.
Agreed.

Beyond elevating the speaker to ear level there is nothing else
significant about speaker stands.
Hehehe... oh-right!

Name the other things they do that are significant.

I would suggest you ask the same question
over on rec.audio.tech and mention the alleged vibratin to heat problem
and see what kind of response you get.

So your basis of knowledge on the subject
is what others tell you? How about doing
the work yourself, mr. Arm-chair
Commander?

On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 13:10:18 -0500, "Robert Morein"
wrote:

Speaker cabinets are not inert. They
vibrate. In the case of a strong resonance, the level of sound emitted by
the cabinet approaches that emitted by the driver.

Wow! Now that's resonant!

At last, a speaker system to give us that true concert hall sound. :-)

"paul packer" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 13:10:18 -0500, "Robert Morein"
wrote:

Speaker cabinets are not inert. They
vibrate. In the case of a strong resonance, the level of sound emitted by
the cabinet approaches that emitted by the driver.

Wow! Now that's resonant!

At last, a speaker system to give us that true concert hall sound. :-)

There are several speaker manufacturers who actually claim that, but
mainstream thought appears to be that woody sounds should come from the
instruments, not the speakers.

"paul packer" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 13:10:18 -0500, "Robert Morein"
wrote:

Speaker cabinets are not inert. They
vibrate. In the case of a strong resonance, the level of sound emitted by
the cabinet approaches that emitted by the driver.

Wow! Now that's resonant!

At last, a speaker system to give us that true concert hall sound. :-)

He's right they do vibrate but if they do it audibly they are crap speakers,
unless as is the case in some rather odd speaker designs, the vibration is
undamped purposely so as to contribute to the sound.

I doubt very much if there is a speaker that is of any decent quality and
normal design, that has a cabinet that emanates sound loud enough to come
close to the sound from the drivers.

wrote

He's right they do vibrate but if they do it audibly
they are crap speakers, unless as is the case in
some rather odd speaker designs, the vibration is
undamped purposely so as to contribute to the
sound.

Please site one manufacture who designs
for this "undamped purposely so as to
contribute to the sound?"

Quack, quack, quack...

In article , says...

wrote

He's right they do vibrate but if they do it audibly
they are crap speakers, unless as is the case in
some rather odd speaker designs, the vibration is
undamped purposely so as to contribute to the
sound.

Please site one manufacture who designs
for this "undamped purposely so as to
contribute to the sound?"

Well, this might be the kind of thing he's talking about.
http://www.audionote.co.uk/ describing the AN-K:

"The AN-K cabinet is made from materials that compliment the workings of
the chosen drive units, where we, instead of trying to damp the
resonances in the cabinet, place them in frequency bands where they aid
and enhance the drive unit's work."

You're welcome.

--
Bill

"Kalle Heinänen" wrote in message
...
I'm designing a simple speaker stand. My question is: if the speaker will
sit on a kind of spring or rather if the whole stand is a slightly
springy-like, will this somehow affect the sound coming from the speaker
compared to if the speaker was on a heavy and solid object? This stand is
not necessarily for high-end use, but certainly hifi, or at least I hope
so. So should a speaker stand be very solid to prevent vibration of the
stand. The speaker's weight is about 6-8kg.

ps. If you know any nice looking short, about 40cm high speaker stands,
I'd be delighted to check it out.


Check out:
http://www.ikea.com/webapp/wcs/store...roductId=11140

Your speakers are likely to sound better on this than anything you can build
even near the prize. Just out of curiosity, what kind of speakers will be
"hifi" at 6-8 kilos a piece? My experience tells me that at that weight the
box will typically compromise the sound to a significant degree. But then
again, I haven't heard them all.

Cheers,

Margaret

"Margaret von B." wrote in message
...

"Kalle Heinänen" wrote in message
...
I'm designing a simple speaker stand. My question is: if the speaker will
sit on a kind of spring or rather if the whole stand is a slightly
springy-like, will this somehow affect the sound coming from the speaker
compared to if the speaker was on a heavy and solid object? This stand is
not necessarily for high-end use, but certainly hifi, or at least I hope
so. So should a speaker stand be very solid to prevent vibration of the
stand. The speaker's weight is about 6-8kg.

ps. If you know any nice looking short, about 40cm high speaker stands,
I'd be delighted to check it out.


Check out:
http://www.ikea.com/webapp/wcs/store...roductId=11140

But they take up a lot more space than the speakers.

How about pieces of a large timber, cut short, and plasticized. Possibly
funky & functional?

http://www.ikea.com/webapp/wcs/store...roductId=11140

Thanks for the idea. Four legged DIY (to get the right size) is also
possible, but probably not the kind of design I'm after in this case..

Just out of curiosity, what kind of speakers will be "hifi" at
6-8 kilos a piece?

In this case I'll be having Genelec speakers. IMHO they are hifi.