There seems to be a divided opinion on this subject.

I would not ask the pastor for more than to help Arny with his problems.
Usenet addictions are common, but Arny seems to be suffering so much. If
this is not a purpose of one's church, what else is there? Arny embarasses
himself every day here, and in other forums, in front
of thousands of people. Where there is smoke, there is fire. Giving a pastor
information that would help him do his job better could save Arny from
troubles that none of us know anything about. Arny is an extremely angry
man. This is what distinguishes the rest of us from Arny.

It appears to me that the scales are so balanced:
1. Don't embarass Arny.
2. Arny is an extremely unhappy, angry person, who needs pastoral attention,
and this is an opportunity to open the door.

If I were to speak to Arny's pastor, I WOULD NOT ask the pastor to exert
pressue on Arny to change what he writes. My attitude would be that this is
an opportunity for Arny to receive counseling, entirely for his own benefit.
Whatever benefit comes to us would be only a side effect of a happier Arny.

Please sound off.

On Sun, 4 Dec 2005 10:46:02 -0500, "Robert Morein"
wrote:

There seems to be a divided opinion on this subject.

I would not ask the pastor for more than to help Arny with his problems.
Usenet addictions are common, but Arny seems to be suffering so much. If
this is not a purpose of one's church, what else is there? Arny embarasses
himself every day here, and in other forums, in front
of thousands of people. Where there is smoke, there is fire. Giving a pastor
information that would help him do his job better could save Arny from
troubles that none of us know anything about. Arny is an extremely angry
man. This is what distinguishes the rest of us from Arny.

It appears to me that the scales are so balanced:
1. Don't embarass Arny.
2. Arny is an extremely unhappy, angry person, who needs pastoral attention,
and this is an opportunity to open the door.

You forgot 3 &4:

Don't embarass yourself.

Don't take RAO into real life.

If I were to speak to Arny's pastor, I WOULD NOT ask the pastor to exert
pressue on Arny to change what he writes. My attitude would be that this is
an opportunity for Arny to receive counseling, entirely for his own benefit.
Whatever benefit comes to us would be only a side effect of a happier Arny.

Please sound off.

Sure.Disingenuousness is pretty hard to disguise.

Cue Lionel to accuse me of said property...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...
There seems to be a divided opinion on this subject.

I would not ask the pastor for more than to help Arny with his problems.
Usenet addictions are common, but Arny seems to be suffering so much. If
this is not a purpose of one's church, what else is there? Arny embarasses
himself every day here, and in other forums, in front
of thousands of people. Where there is smoke, there is fire. Giving a
pastor information that would help him do his job better could save Arny
from troubles that none of us know anything about. Arny is an extremely
angry man. This is what distinguishes the rest of us from Arny.

It appears to me that the scales are so balanced:
1. Don't embarass Arny.
2. Arny is an extremely unhappy, angry person, who needs pastoral
attention, and this is an opportunity to open the door.

If I were to speak to Arny's pastor, I WOULD NOT ask the pastor to exert
pressue on Arny to change what he writes. My attitude would be that this
is an opportunity for Arny to receive counseling, entirely for his own
benefit. Whatever benefit comes to us would be only a side effect of a
happier Arny.

Please sound off.

**Do you seriously imagine that you can speak rationally and reasonably with
a person whose PROFESSION is completely dominated by delusion?


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...
There seems to be a divided opinion on this subject.

I would not ask the pastor for more than to help Arny with his problems.
Usenet addictions are common, but Arny seems to be suffering so much. If
this is not a purpose of one's church, what else is there? Arny
embarasses himself every day here, and in other forums, in front
of thousands of people. Where there is smoke, there is fire. Giving a
pastor information that would help him do his job better could save Arny
from troubles that none of us know anything about. Arny is an extremely
angry man. This is what distinguishes the rest of us from Arny.

It appears to me that the scales are so balanced:
1. Don't embarass Arny.
2. Arny is an extremely unhappy, angry person, who needs pastoral
attention, and this is an opportunity to open the door.

If I were to speak to Arny's pastor, I WOULD NOT ask the pastor to exert
pressue on Arny to change what he writes. My attitude would be that this
is an opportunity for Arny to receive counseling, entirely for his own
benefit. Whatever benefit comes to us would be only a side effect of a
happier Arny.

Please sound off.

**Do you seriously imagine that you can speak rationally and reasonably
with a person whose PROFESSION is completely dominated by delusion?

We all live with delusions, Trevor.

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...
There seems to be a divided opinion on this subject.

I would not ask the pastor for more than to help Arny with his problems.
Usenet addictions are common, but Arny seems to be suffering so much. If
this is not a purpose of one's church, what else is there? Arny embarasses
himself every day here, and in other forums, in front
of thousands of people. Where there is smoke, there is fire. Giving a
pastor information that would help him do his job better could save Arny
from troubles that none of us know anything about. Arny is an extremely
angry man. This is what distinguishes the rest of us from Arny.

It appears to me that the scales are so balanced:
1. Don't embarass Arny.
2. Arny is an extremely unhappy, angry person, who needs pastoral
attention, and this is an opportunity to open the door.

If I were to speak to Arny's pastor, I WOULD NOT ask the pastor to exert
pressue on Arny to change what he writes. My attitude would be that this
is an opportunity for Arny to receive counseling, entirely for his own
benefit. Whatever benefit comes to us would be only a side effect of a
happier Arny.

Please sound off.


Hi Rob,

1. It is Krueger's family business. If they cannot sort him out...too bad!

2. Why do you insist on believing that you know something about him that
isn't common knowledge?

3. It is Krueger's family business.

4. Stay out. I mean it.


Cheers,

Margaret

Robert Morein said:

If I were to speak to Arny's pastor, I WOULD NOT ask the pastor to exert
pressue on Arny to change what he writes. My attitude would be that this is
an opportunity for Arny to receive counseling, entirely for his own benefit.
Whatever benefit comes to us would be only a side effect of a happier Arny.

Please sound off.

I doubt your motives are entirely charitable. Mine wouldn't be.

"George M. Middius" cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net wrote
in message ...


Robert Morein said:

If I were to speak to Arny's pastor, I WOULD NOT ask the pastor to exert
pressue on Arny to change what he writes. My attitude would be that this
is
an opportunity for Arny to receive counseling, entirely for his own
benefit.
Whatever benefit comes to us would be only a side effect of a happier
Arny.

Please sound off.

I doubt your motives are entirely charitable. Mine wouldn't be.

It bothers me that r.a.o. has gotten a little closed off. Krueger's style
affects us all. If Arny were to moderate a little, perhaps that would
lighten the tone around here. As it is, the level of real animosity, as
opposed to the put-on kind, is a barrier for new people.

I honestly believe that a conversation with Arny's pastor has the
possibility of improving Arny's overall well-being, at the expense of
temporary embarassment.

I will respect the concensus of the group.

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...
There seems to be a divided opinion on this subject.

I would not ask the pastor for more than to help Arny with his problems.
Usenet addictions are common, but Arny seems to be suffering so much.
If this is not a purpose of one's church, what else is there? Arny
embarasses himself every day here, and in other forums, in front
of thousands of people. Where there is smoke, there is fire. Giving a
pastor information that would help him do his job better could save Arny
from troubles that none of us know anything about. Arny is an extremely
angry man. This is what distinguishes the rest of us from Arny.

It appears to me that the scales are so balanced:
1. Don't embarass Arny.
2. Arny is an extremely unhappy, angry person, who needs pastoral
attention, and this is an opportunity to open the door.

If I were to speak to Arny's pastor, I WOULD NOT ask the pastor to exert
pressue on Arny to change what he writes. My attitude would be that this
is an opportunity for Arny to receive counseling, entirely for his own
benefit. Whatever benefit comes to us would be only a side effect of a
happier Arny.

Please sound off.

**Do you seriously imagine that you can speak rationally and reasonably
with a person whose PROFESSION is completely dominated by delusion?

We all live with delusions, Trevor.

**Not so. Some of us live our lives based on reality. Further, few of us are
professionally involved in delusions.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...
There seems to be a divided opinion on this subject.

I would not ask the pastor for more than to help Arny with his problems.

That is not your business.

Usenet addictions are common, but Arny seems to be suffering so much. If
this is not a purpose of one's church, what else is there? Arny embarasses
himself every day here, and in other forums, in front
of thousands of people. Where there is smoke, there is fire. Giving a
pastor information that would help him do his job better could save Arny
from troubles that none of us know anything about. Arny is an extremely
angry man. This is what distinguishes the rest of us from Arny.


Arny's pastor will have to figure that our for himself, if he hasn't
already

It appears to me that the scales are so balanced:
1. Don't embarass Arny.
2. Arny is an extremely unhappy, angry person, who needs pastoral
attention, and this is an opportunity to open the door.


None of your business.

If I were to speak to Arny's pastor, I WOULD NOT ask the pastor to exert
pressue on Arny to change what he writes. My attitude would be that this
is an opportunity for Arny to receive counseling, entirely for his own
benefit. Whatever benefit comes to us would be only a side effect of a
happier Arny.

Please sound off.

would you want any of us to interfere in your personal life?

Arny' is a pathetic and vile human being.
That's his problem, hopefully he will confront
it on his own someday, or maybe
some of his closest people will intervene for him.

What gives you the right to play God?

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

"George M. Middius" cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net
wrote in message ...


Robert Morein said:

If I were to speak to Arny's pastor, I WOULD NOT ask the pastor to exert
pressue on Arny to change what he writes. My attitude would be that this
is
an opportunity for Arny to receive counseling, entirely for his own
benefit.
Whatever benefit comes to us would be only a side effect of a happier
Arny.

Please sound off.

I doubt your motives are entirely charitable. Mine wouldn't be.

It bothers me that r.a.o. has gotten a little closed off. Krueger's style
affects us all. If Arny were to moderate a little, perhaps that would
lighten the tone around here. As it is, the level of real animosity, as
opposed to the put-on kind, is a barrier for new people.

I honestly believe that a conversation with Arny's pastor has the
possibility of improving Arny's overall well-being, at the expense of
temporary embarassment.

I will respect the concensus of the group.


Sneaking off and talkin to Arny's pastor is childish and cowardly.
Just talk to Arny, himself about this, if you
are so concerned.

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...
There seems to be a divided opinion on this subject.

I would not ask the pastor for more than to help Arny with his problems.

That is not your business.

Usenet addictions are common, but Arny seems to be suffering so much. If
this is not a purpose of one's church, what else is there? Arny
embarasses himself every day here, and in other forums, in front
of thousands of people. Where there is smoke, there is fire. Giving a
pastor information that would help him do his job better could save Arny
from troubles that none of us know anything about. Arny is an extremely
angry man. This is what distinguishes the rest of us from Arny.


Arny's pastor will have to figure that our for himself, if he hasn't
already

It appears to me that the scales are so balanced:
1. Don't embarass Arny.
2. Arny is an extremely unhappy, angry person, who needs pastoral
attention, and this is an opportunity to open the door.


None of your business.

If I were to speak to Arny's pastor, I WOULD NOT ask the pastor to exert
pressue on Arny to change what he writes. My attitude would be that this
is an opportunity for Arny to receive counseling, entirely for his own
benefit. Whatever benefit comes to us would be only a side effect of a
happier Arny.

Please sound off.

would you want any of us to interfere in your personal life?

Arny' is a pathetic and vile human being.
That's his problem, hopefully he will confront
it on his own someday, or maybe
some of his closest people will intervene for him.

What gives you the right to play God?

I would be farming that out to a professional

Trevor Wilson said:

**Not so. Some of us live our lives based on reality. Further, few of us are
professionally involved in delusions.

You should make an effort to distinguish between delusions and
superstitions. Most religionists are sane enough to realize that they are
substituting faith in the unproven for knowledge. Very few are daft enough
to say they "know" that their beliefs are congruent with reality.

Robert Morein a écrit :

There seems to be a divided opinion on this subject.

I would not ask the pastor for more than to help Arny with his problems.
Usenet addictions are common, but Arny seems to be suffering so much. If
this is not a purpose of one's church, what else is there? Arny embarasses
himself every day here, and in other forums, in front
of thousands of people. Where there is smoke, there is fire. Giving a pastor
information that would help him do his job better could save Arny from
troubles that none of us know anything about. Arny is an extremely angry
man. This is what distinguishes the rest of us from Arny.

It appears to me that the scales are so balanced:
1. Don't embarass Arny.
2. Arny is an extremely unhappy, angry person, who needs pastoral attention,
and this is an opportunity to open the door.

If I were to speak to Arny's pastor, I WOULD NOT ask the pastor to exert
pressue on Arny to change what he writes. My attitude would be that this is
an opportunity for Arny to receive counseling, entirely for his own benefit.
Whatever benefit comes to us would be only a side effect of a happier Arny.

Please sound off.

Why would you make an ass of yourself Bob ?
You start by calling his pastor and you finish by phoning to his
neighbors during the night... :-(
BTW I already regret to have answered to your question.

--
Nobody seemes to have actaully read what i wrote.
But what's new around here?

Dave Weil - Sun, 05 Oct 2003 00:57:15 -0500

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...


What gives you the right to play God?

I would be farming that out to a professional


You would only be embarrasing yourself.
Of course, little has stopped you before.

"Robert Morein" wrote in message


There seems to be a divided opinion on this subject.

LOL.

In fact, there's no division.

All of the posts publicly saying "don't do it" are no doubt
backed with private email and phone calls saying "do it".

I'll let my pastor know that those online sickies I've been
telling him about, are going to call him in an attempt to
harass me.

"George M. Middius" cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net wrote
in message ...


Trevor Wilson said:

**Not so. Some of us live our lives based on reality. Further, few of us
are
professionally involved in delusions.

You should make an effort to distinguish between delusions and
superstitions.

**I think the line is blurred.

Most religionists are sane enough to realize that they are
substituting faith in the unproven for knowledge. Very few are daft enough
to say they "know" that their beliefs are congruent with reality.

**I disagree.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

I'll let my pastor know that those online sickies I've been telling him
about, are going to call him in an attempt to harass me.

Right on, Arny. That is good way to protect your reputation. It would be
even better if the threat was mentioned to the whole congregation during the
sermon so they could all be on the lookout. :-)

Cheers,

Margaret

On Sun, 4 Dec 2005 13:36:41 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Robert Morein" wrote in message


There seems to be a divided opinion on this subject.

LOL.

In fact, there's no division.

All of the posts publicly saying "don't do it" are no doubt
backed with private email and phone calls saying "do it".

There is "no doubt" that "all" of the posts publicly saying "don't do
it" are backed with private email and phone calls saying "do it".

Is that your final answer?

"dizzy" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 4 Dec 2005 13:36:41 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Robert Morein" wrote in message


There seems to be a divided opinion on this subject.

LOL.

In fact, there's no division.

All of the posts publicly saying "don't do it" are no doubt
backed with private email and phone calls saying "do it".

There is "no doubt" that "all" of the posts publicly saying "don't do
it" are backed with private email and phone calls saying "do it".

Is that your final answer?


Just wait until Arnii finds out that his "God" is actually Satan!

Cheers,

Margaret

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"George M. Middius" cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net
wrote in message ...


Trevor Wilson said:

**Not so. Some of us live our lives based on reality. Further, few of us
are
professionally involved in delusions.

You should make an effort to distinguish between delusions and
superstitions.

**I think the line is blurred.

Most religionists are sane enough to realize that they are
substituting faith in the unproven for knowledge. Very few are daft
enough
to say they "know" that their beliefs are congruent with reality.

**I disagree.

Trevor, I'm an agnostic myself. But I find surprising that you do not
acknowledge that many clerics, at least the better ones, provide valuable
life counseling to their parishoners. Moral guidance provided by religion
comes packaged in an assortment of superstitions, myths, demands for fealty,
promises of favor/forgiveness, distinction, exclusion, ritual, and ceremony,
which both you and I consider unpalatable. But this is precisely what the
vast majority of humanity requires, who are not possessed of universal
minds.

And you and I, as rationalists, have other problems with reality. Modern
physics has almost reached the conclusion that objective reality, in the
absolute sense, does not exist. What seems to be replacing it is a Universe
that is only as rational as it has to be.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Robert Morein" wrote in message


There seems to be a divided opinion on this subject.

LOL.

In fact, there's no division.

All of the posts publicly saying "don't do it" are no doubt backed with
private email and phone calls saying "do it".

I'll let my pastor know that those online sickies I've been telling him
about, are going to call him in an attempt to harass me.
I have received no such emails, Arny.
Behind their facades, the r.a.o.'ers really do seem to extend to you what
you would call Christian love.

"Lionel" wrote in message
...
Robert Morein a écrit :

There seems to be a divided opinion on this subject.

I would not ask the pastor for more than to help Arny with his problems.
Usenet addictions are common, but Arny seems to be suffering so much. If
this is not a purpose of one's church, what else is there? Arny
embarasses himself every day here, and in other forums, in front
of thousands of people. Where there is smoke, there is fire. Giving a
pastor information that would help him do his job better could save Arny
from troubles that none of us know anything about. Arny is an extremely
angry man. This is what distinguishes the rest of us from Arny.

It appears to me that the scales are so balanced:
1. Don't embarass Arny.
2. Arny is an extremely unhappy, angry person, who needs pastoral
attention, and this is an opportunity to open the door.

If I were to speak to Arny's pastor, I WOULD NOT ask the pastor to exert
pressue on Arny to change what he writes. My attitude would be that this
is an opportunity for Arny to receive counseling, entirely for his own
benefit. Whatever benefit comes to us would be only a side effect of a
happier Arny.

Please sound off.

Why would you make an ass of yourself Bob ?
You start by calling his pastor and you finish by phoning to his neighbors
during the night... :-(
BTW I already regret to have answered to your question.

Why should you regret it? You added to the concensus of the group.
I am not going to call Arny's pastor.

dizzy a écrit :
On Sun, 4 Dec 2005 13:36:41 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:


"Robert Morein" wrote in message



There seems to be a divided opinion on this subject.

LOL.

In fact, there's no division.

All of the posts publicly saying "don't do it" are no doubt
backed with private email and phone calls saying "do it".


There is "no doubt" that "all" of the posts publicly saying "don't do
it" are backed with private email and phone calls saying "do it".

Is that your final answer?

Are you new in that game ?


--
Nobody seemes to have actaully read what i wrote.
But what's new around here?

Dave Weil - Sun, 05 Oct 2003 00:57:15 -0500

Robert Morein wrote:
There seems to be a divided opinion on this subject.

I would not ask the pastor for more than to help Arny with his problems.
Usenet addictions are common, but Arny seems to be suffering so much. If
this is not a purpose of one's church, what else is there? Arny embarasses
himself every day here, and in other forums, in front
of thousands of people. Where there is smoke, there is fire. Giving a pastor
information that would help him do his job better could save Arny from
troubles that none of us know anything about. Arny is an extremely angry
man. This is what distinguishes the rest of us from Arny.

It appears to me that the scales are so balanced:
1. Don't embarass Arny.
2. Arny is an extremely unhappy, angry person, who needs pastoral attention,
and this is an opportunity to open the door.

If I were to speak to Arny's pastor, I WOULD NOT ask the pastor to exert
pressue on Arny to change what he writes. My attitude would be that this is
an opportunity for Arny to receive counseling, entirely for his own benefit.
Whatever benefit comes to us would be only a side effect of a happier Arny.

Please sound off.

Even contemplating such BS shows a complete lack rational perspective
that leads me to believe you're a potentiall far more vile presence on
RAO than Arny could ever be.

It just goes to show how little of a life you have when you seek to
make usenet/RAO a real world component of your life.

ScottW

Robert Morein wrote:
"George M. Middius" cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net wrote
in message ...


Robert Morein said:

If I were to speak to Arny's pastor, I WOULD NOT ask the pastor to exert
pressue on Arny to change what he writes. My attitude would be that this
is
an opportunity for Arny to receive counseling, entirely for his own
benefit.
Whatever benefit comes to us would be only a side effect of a happier
Arny.

Please sound off.

I doubt your motives are entirely charitable. Mine wouldn't be.

It bothers me that r.a.o. has gotten a little closed off.

The hypocrisy of your recent Mckelvy vedetta is just a bit
overwhelming.

ScottW

"ScottW" wrote in message
oups.com...

Robert Morein wrote:
"George M. Middius" cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net
wrote
in message ...


Robert Morein said:

If I were to speak to Arny's pastor, I WOULD NOT ask the pastor to
exert
pressue on Arny to change what he writes. My attitude would be that
this
is
an opportunity for Arny to receive counseling, entirely for his own
benefit.
Whatever benefit comes to us would be only a side effect of a happier
Arny.

Please sound off.

I doubt your motives are entirely charitable. Mine wouldn't be.

It bothers me that r.a.o. has gotten a little closed off.

The hypocrisy of your recent Mckelvy vedetta is just a bit
overwhelming.

ScottW

Scott, you are always poised on the edge of Niagara Falls, ready to be
overwhelmed.

"ScottW" wrote in message
ups.com...

Robert Morein wrote:
There seems to be a divided opinion on this subject.

I would not ask the pastor for more than to help Arny with his problems.
Usenet addictions are common, but Arny seems to be suffering so much. If
this is not a purpose of one's church, what else is there? Arny
embarasses
himself every day here, and in other forums, in front
of thousands of people. Where there is smoke, there is fire. Giving a
pastor
information that would help him do his job better could save Arny from
troubles that none of us know anything about. Arny is an extremely angry
man. This is what distinguishes the rest of us from Arny.

It appears to me that the scales are so balanced:
1. Don't embarass Arny.
2. Arny is an extremely unhappy, angry person, who needs pastoral
attention,
and this is an opportunity to open the door.

If I were to speak to Arny's pastor, I WOULD NOT ask the pastor to exert
pressue on Arny to change what he writes. My attitude would be that this
is
an opportunity for Arny to receive counseling, entirely for his own
benefit.
Whatever benefit comes to us would be only a side effect of a happier
Arny.

Please sound off.

Even contemplating such BS shows a complete lack rational perspective
that leads me to believe you're a potentiall far more vile presence on
RAO than Arny could ever be.

It just goes to show how little of a life you have when you seek to
make usenet/RAO a real world component of your life.

ScottW

Would you excuse me for a few minutes while I torture my kittens?

ScottW a écrit :

It just goes to show how little of a life you have when you seek to
make usenet/RAO a real world component of your life.

I agree with that.




--
Nobody seemes to have actaully read what i wrote.
But what's new around here?

Dave Weil - Sun, 05 Oct 2003 00:57:15 -0500

Robert Morein a écrit :
"Lionel" wrote in message
...

Robert Morein a écrit :


There seems to be a divided opinion on this subject.

I would not ask the pastor for more than to help Arny with his problems.
Usenet addictions are common, but Arny seems to be suffering so much. If
this is not a purpose of one's church, what else is there? Arny
embarasses himself every day here, and in other forums, in front
of thousands of people. Where there is smoke, there is fire. Giving a
pastor information that would help him do his job better could save Arny
from troubles that none of us know anything about. Arny is an extremely
angry man. This is what distinguishes the rest of us from Arny.

It appears to me that the scales are so balanced:
1. Don't embarass Arny.
2. Arny is an extremely unhappy, angry person, who needs pastoral
attention, and this is an opportunity to open the door.

If I were to speak to Arny's pastor, I WOULD NOT ask the pastor to exert
pressue on Arny to change what he writes. My attitude would be that this
is an opportunity for Arny to receive counseling, entirely for his own
benefit. Whatever benefit comes to us would be only a side effect of a
happier Arny.

Please sound off.

Why would you make an ass of yourself Bob ?
You start by calling his pastor and you finish by phoning to his neighbors
during the night... :-(
BTW I already regret to have answered to your question.


Why should you regret it?

Because, a posteriori, I have been a little bit afraid by your request.

You added to the concensus of the group.


Do you mean that I've joined the herd ?
You didn't habituate me to such crudeness. ;-)


I am not going to call Arny's pastor.

If it's really a big problem for you, you'd better call Arnold instead.



--
Nobody seemes to have actaully read what i wrote.
But what's new around here?

Dave Weil - Sun, 05 Oct 2003 00:57:15 -0500

Robert Morein said:

I'll let my pastor know that those online sickies I've been telling him
about, are going to call him in an attempt to harass me.

I have received no such emails, Arny.

Thanks Mr. Morine for, admitting you're an online sickie, LOt"S!

Behind their facades, the r.a.o.'ers really do seem to extend to you what
you would call Christian love.

I think that's going too far. All anybody has said is not to take Usenet
fun & games into the real world. I happen to agree with you that an
intervention might be beneficial to Mr. ****, not to mention to the rest of
us. However, it's not your place (or mine, or any other RAOer's) to bring
it about. Unfortunately.

"Lionel" wrote in message
...
Robert Morein a écrit :
"Lionel" wrote in message
...

Robert Morein a écrit :


There seems to be a divided opinion on this subject.

I would not ask the pastor for more than to help Arny with his problems.
Usenet addictions are common, but Arny seems to be suffering so much.
If this is not a purpose of one's church, what else is there? Arny
embarasses himself every day here, and in other forums, in front
of thousands of people. Where there is smoke, there is fire. Giving a
pastor information that would help him do his job better could save Arny
from troubles that none of us know anything about. Arny is an extremely
angry man. This is what distinguishes the rest of us from Arny.

It appears to me that the scales are so balanced:
1. Don't embarass Arny.
2. Arny is an extremely unhappy, angry person, who needs pastoral
attention, and this is an opportunity to open the door.

If I were to speak to Arny's pastor, I WOULD NOT ask the pastor to exert
pressue on Arny to change what he writes. My attitude would be that this
is an opportunity for Arny to receive counseling, entirely for his own
benefit. Whatever benefit comes to us would be only a side effect of a
happier Arny.

Please sound off.

Why would you make an ass of yourself Bob ?
You start by calling his pastor and you finish by phoning to his
neighbors during the night... :-(
BTW I already regret to have answered to your question.


Why should you regret it?

Because, a posteriori, I have been a little bit afraid by your request.

You added to the concensus of the group.


Do you mean that I've joined the herd ?
You didn't habituate me to such crudeness. ;-)

Lionel, your Green Card has blossomed into a forest

I am not going to call Arny's pastor.

If it's really a big problem for you, you'd better call Arnold instead.

This reminds me of a "code of honor". A hundred years ago, people engaged in
duels to settle "questions of honor."
This is not my concern. Look, there are about six or seven people who do 95%
of the posting on this group, a worldwide usenet group. Why is it so small?
I feel that Arny has cast a pall (shadow, umbra) over this group, because
unlike the rest of us here, there is some darkness in his soul that runs
deep to the bone. Arny is in tremendous pain. So I thought, in terms of
social services that might be available, there is organization in which he
quite literally puts his faith. By extension, the pastor might be someone he
looks up to.

So I put the question to the Group, and I awaited the concensus, which is
very clear. I will not approach the pastor.

The motivation is completely different from the situation with McCarty. In
that case, McCarty actively inteferred with the lives and businesses of very
innocent people. He called police on people. He harassed people in the
middle of the night. Some people he damaged very considerably. Yet all the
while, McCarty himself was a wannabe scammer. Still, in that case, I did not
want to destroy this individual. The screws were tightened very gradually,
each time warning McCarty that if he continued, the circumstances would get
worse for him. It finally ended up at the level of head of government, which
I guess shows, I can talk to anybody .

Scottieborg pleads for mercy on behalf of his fellow cretin.

The hypocrisy of your recent Mckelvy vedetta is just a bit
overwhelming.

Sorry, that wasn't one of the choices. Please review the question and
choose one of the alternatives provided:

Q: How should we encourage duh-Mikey to get away from it all permanently?

(a) Give him a gun with a single bullet in the chamber.
(b) Send him a hose and some tape and a picture of his garage with the door
closed.
(c) Buy him a ticket for a ride to the top of the Space Needle.
(d) Help him arrange a pharmaceutical "accident" that will not invalidate
his life insurance.


Even a twit like you should be able to get this question right, Scooter.

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"George M. Middius" cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net
wrote in message ...


Trevor Wilson said:

**Not so. Some of us live our lives based on reality. Further, few of
us are
professionally involved in delusions.

You should make an effort to distinguish between delusions and
superstitions.

**I think the line is blurred.

Most religionists are sane enough to realize that they are
substituting faith in the unproven for knowledge. Very few are daft
enough
to say they "know" that their beliefs are congruent with reality.

**I disagree.

Trevor, I'm an agnostic myself. But I find surprising that you do not
acknowledge that many clerics, at least the better ones, provide valuable
life counseling to their parishoners.

**On the contrary, I do. My mother is a Christian. She was conselled by one
of the finest humans I have ever met, on the death of my father - the
minister of her local Church. He was able to provide valuable assistance to
my mother. Assistance I had no hope of ever being able to provide. OTOH, the
man could do nothing to assuage my grief at the time. All of this takes
nothign away from the fact that he is/was a deluded human. I have NEVER
denied the value of worthy humans (whether they be Ministers of religion,
psychiatrists, social workers or mates down at the local pub) in councelling
those in need.

Anecdote mode ON
Some years ago, I recall reading about a doctor down in the Cajun area of
Louisiana. Part of his treatment of these extremely superstitious people,
was to banish black magic effects on his patients. He did not do so, by
explaining that such things did not exist (he related stories of several
patients who had died, as a result of alleged 'spells' cast by those who
wished them ill will), but he actually treated those people by pretending to
use that same magic to help them. He stressed that he held no belief in
magic, but often felt that there was no other way to treat his patients,
without making them think that he was using magic.

Anecdote mode /OFF

Moral guidance provided by religion
comes packaged in an assortment of superstitions, myths, demands for
fealty, promises of favor/forgiveness, distinction, exclusion, ritual, and
ceremony, which both you and I consider unpalatable. But this is precisely
what the vast majority of humanity requires, who are not possessed of
universal minds.

**Indeed. However, IMO, superstition is no replacement for understanding.
Education is the real answer to people's problems. They may not enjoy those
answers at a given time, but for humanity as a whole, true understanding of
the nature of this universe is the ONLY answer. Superstition and
gobbledegook merely leads to more superstition and gobbledegook.


And you and I, as rationalists, have other problems with reality. Modern
physics has almost reached the conclusion that objective reality, in the
absolute sense, does not exist. What seems to be replacing it is a
Universe that is only as rational as it has to be.

**True enough, but that just makes it ever more fascinating.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Robert Morein" wrote in message


There seems to be a divided opinion on this subject.

LOL.

In fact, there's no division.

All of the posts publicly saying "don't do it" are no doubt backed with
private email and phone calls saying "do it".

I'll let my pastor know that those online sickies I've been telling him
about, are going to call him in an attempt to harass me.

No Arny, not me.
You don't have to be so paranoid.

"ScottW" wrote in message
ups.com...


Even contemplating such BS shows a complete lack rational perspective
that leads me to believe you're a potentiall far more vile presence on
RAO than Arny could ever be.


Arny is a man of unlimited potential!!

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"George M. Middius" cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net
wrote in message ...


[snip]

Moral guidance provided by religion
comes packaged in an assortment of superstitions, myths, demands for
fealty, promises of favor/forgiveness, distinction, exclusion, ritual,
and ceremony, which both you and I consider unpalatable. But this is
precisely what the vast majority of humanity requires, who are not
possessed of universal minds.

**Indeed. However, IMO, superstition is no replacement for understanding.
Education is the real answer to people's problems. They may not enjoy
those answers at a given time, but for humanity as a whole, true
understanding of the nature of this universe is the ONLY answer.
Superstition and gobbledegook merely leads to more superstition and
gobbledegook.

You have a higher opinion of humanity than I do. In my opinion, the vast
majority are marginally equipped to function as part of modern civilization.
It's in our genes, Trevor. Evolution stopped too soon.

The Communists had a similar notion early in the 20th Century; to make a New
Marxist Man, shorn of the hobbles of religion, governed by a rational
philosophy. It didn't work because humans are not fundamentally rational.
You seem captivated by the idea that the right ideology can conquer human
weakness. Marxism and Fascism tried with fanatical devotion and ruthlessness
to create the New Man. They failed, and for the time being, Mankind is not
endangered by an "ism."

Arny is an educated fellow. Yet inspite of all the rationalitiy he bestows
upon himself, he is driven by irrational desires. And he's not the worst of
what we have to deal with. How many people do you actually know with
below-average intelligence? We try to ignore their presence, but they
constitute half of humanity. They are scarily irrational, and unable to
grasp the modalities of thought you would like to gift to them.

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Robert Morein" wrote in message


There seems to be a divided opinion on this subject.

LOL.

In fact, there's no division.

All of the posts publicly saying "don't do it" are no doubt backed with
private email and phone calls saying "do it".

I'll let my pastor know that those online sickies I've been telling him
about, are going to call him in an attempt to harass me.

No Arny, not me.
You don't have to be so paranoid.
Aw, Art, you almost had me convinced!
I feel so betrayed.

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"George M. Middius" cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net
wrote in message ...


[snip]

Moral guidance provided by religion
comes packaged in an assortment of superstitions, myths, demands for
fealty, promises of favor/forgiveness, distinction, exclusion, ritual,
and ceremony, which both you and I consider unpalatable. But this is
precisely what the vast majority of humanity requires, who are not
possessed of universal minds.

**Indeed. However, IMO, superstition is no replacement for understanding.
Education is the real answer to people's problems. They may not enjoy
those answers at a given time, but for humanity as a whole, true
understanding of the nature of this universe is the ONLY answer.
Superstition and gobbledegook merely leads to more superstition and
gobbledegook.

You have a higher opinion of humanity than I do. In my opinion, the vast
majority are marginally equipped to function as part of modern
civilization. It's in our genes, Trevor. Evolution stopped too soon.

**Perhaps.


The Communists had a similar notion early in the 20th Century; to make a
New Marxist Man, shorn of the hobbles of religion, governed by a rational
philosophy. It didn't work because humans are not fundamentally rational.

**Not so much. It didn't work, because the Marxists did not replace religion
with education. Education will enable people to remove the shackles of
religious claptrap. Moreover, it is vital that they do so of their own
volition. I am not a proponent of the removal of religious rights. People
should have the right to worship whatever their delusion dictates. In their
own time, of course. Religion has no place in schools, workplaces, or
government.

You seem captivated by the idea that the right ideology can conquer human
weakness. Marxism and Fascism tried with fanatical devotion and
ruthlessness to create the New Man. They failed, and for the time being,
Mankind is not endangered by an "ism."

**Of course. Humans need and crave education. They need to be provided with
facts, not gobbledegook. I have no problems with religion. Like any other
product or service in our society, it needs to meet all the relevant
consumer laws. 'Life after death'. Prove it, or place the appropriate
condictions on any advertising. It is illegal to mislead people by false
advertising.



Arny is an educated fellow.

**As are many of us here.

Yet inspite of all the rationalitiy he bestows
upon himself, he is driven by irrational desires. And he's not the worst
of what we have to deal with. How many people do you actually know with
below-average intelligence?

**Honestly? Know. Not many. Know of. Several.

We try to ignore their presence, but they
constitute half of humanity. They are scarily irrational, and unable to
grasp the modalities of thought you would like to gift to them.

**It is my belief that most people can be educated. It is the responsibility
of those who are well educated to ensure that the rest of humanity can
follow.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"George M. Middius" cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net
wrote in message ...


[snip]

Moral guidance provided by religion
comes packaged in an assortment of superstitions, myths, demands for
fealty, promises of favor/forgiveness, distinction, exclusion, ritual,
and ceremony, which both you and I consider unpalatable. But this is
precisely what the vast majority of humanity requires, who are not
possessed of universal minds.

**Indeed. However, IMO, superstition is no replacement for
understanding. Education is the real answer to people's problems. They
may not enjoy those answers at a given time, but for humanity as a
whole, true understanding of the nature of this universe is the ONLY
answer. Superstition and gobbledegook merely leads to more superstition
and gobbledegook.

You have a higher opinion of humanity than I do. In my opinion, the vast
majority are marginally equipped to function as part of modern
civilization. It's in our genes, Trevor. Evolution stopped too soon.

**Perhaps.


The Communists had a similar notion early in the 20th Century; to make a
New Marxist Man, shorn of the hobbles of religion, governed by a rational
philosophy. It didn't work because humans are not fundamentally rational.

**Not so much. It didn't work, because the Marxists did not replace
religion with education. Education will enable people to remove the
shackles of religious claptrap. Moreover, it is vital that they do so of
their own volition. I am not a proponent of the removal of religious
rights. People should have the right to worship whatever their delusion
dictates. In their own time, of course. Religion has no place in schools,
workplaces, or government.

You seem captivated by the idea that the right ideology can conquer human
weakness. Marxism and Fascism tried with fanatical devotion and
ruthlessness to create the New Man. They failed, and for the time being,
Mankind is not endangered by an "ism."

**Of course. Humans need and crave education. They need to be provided
with facts, not gobbledegook. I have no problems with religion. Like any
other product or service in our society, it needs to meet all the relevant
consumer laws. 'Life after death'. Prove it, or place the appropriate
condictions on any advertising. It is illegal to mislead people by false
advertising.



Arny is an educated fellow.

**As are many of us here.

Yet inspite of all the rationalitiy he bestows
upon himself, he is driven by irrational desires. And he's not the worst
of what we have to deal with. How many people do you actually know with
below-average intelligence?

**Honestly? Know. Not many. Know of. Several.
Our impression of humanity depends, to a certain extent, on who we interact
with. For example, many social workers, who deal with the bottom strata of
society, are pessimistic about Man's potential.

We try to ignore their presence, but they
constitute half of humanity. They are scarily irrational, and unable to
grasp the modalities of thought you would like to gift to them.

**It is my belief that most people can be educated. It is the
responsibility of those who are well educated to ensure that the rest of
humanity can follow.

That was Plato's Politics, but the current trend in the world is democracy.

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...




**Not so much. It didn't work, because the Marxists did not replace
religion with education.


You forgot about Gulag U. and Lubyanka College.