Are black plate tubes really better than gray plate tubes?

Thanks,
David

On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 22:14:30 -0700, "David Axt"
wrote:

Are black plate tubes really better than gray plate tubes?

Yes.

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:08:57 +0100, "Mikkel C. Simonsen"
wrote:

David Axt wrote:

Are black plate tubes really better than gray plate tubes?

Don't worry about the plate colour - it doesn't matter. A black plate
RCA 6L6GC may be better than a grey plate RCA 6L6GC, but that's just one
specific tube. You can't make any general rules based on plate colour...

The theory goes that the black plates absorb heat better than the grey
ones!

This means the cathode heats up quicker and runs slightly hotter,
emitting more electrons.

(There is numerous info on the web as to why black plates are
preferable to grey ones.)

I'd admit the effect is very small but noticeable nonetheless.

sPoNiX

nope.

--
Choky
Prodanovic Aleksandar
YU


"David Axt" wrote in message
...
Are black plate tubes really better than gray plate tubes?

Thanks,
David

David Axt wrote:

Are black plate tubes really better than gray plate tubes?

Don't worry about the plate colour - it doesn't matter. A black plate
RCA 6L6GC may be better than a grey plate RCA 6L6GC, but that's just one
specific tube. You can't make any general rules based on plate colour...

Best regards,

Mikkel C. Simonsen

Electrons hitting on a plate lose some of their kinetic energy, which
is changed to heat energy, causing the plate temperature rises.
More electrons will bounce back on a hot plate than on a cool one,
and the loose electrons generate a certain amount of noises,
but noises is not necessary bad, in fact a suitable amount of pink noise
gives a warm pleasant tone. I have met an old man placed a digital clock
beside his amp so as to get the right pink noise.
Black color helps heat radiation, so a black plate is normally cooler.
If one thinks that quiet clean music is better, then black plate is better
for him.
Any comments?

"Mikkel C. Simonsen" ¦b¶l¥ó
¤¤¼¶¼g...
David Axt wrote:

Are black plate tubes really better than gray plate tubes?

Don't worry about the plate colour - it doesn't matter. A black plate
RCA 6L6GC may be better than a grey plate RCA 6L6GC, but that's just one
specific tube. You can't make any general rules based on plate colour...

Best regards,

Mikkel C. Simonsen


---
Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net
Complaints to

David Axt wrote:
Are black plate tubes really better than gray plate tubes?

Thanks,
David

Better for what? I could probably be argued that they're better for heat
dissipation, but even that would probably be very minor.

Some people can claim to hear a difference, but I wonder how much this
hearing acuity would be reduced if they couldn't see which colour plate
was in there at any given listening session.

Cheers,
Fred

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:56:02 +0800, "·à¤l¤f"
wrote:

Black color helps heat radiation, so a black plate is normally cooler.

But a black plate will Absorb heat from the heater better, therefore
getting hotter!

sPoNiX

"sPoNiX" wrote:

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:56:02 +0800, "·à¤l¤f"
wrote:

Black color helps heat radiation, so a black plate is normally cooler.

But a black plate will Absorb heat from the heater better, therefore
getting hotter!

sPoNiX

Maybe it absorbs electrons better to, so that's why its black.

What sayest ye tube makers of olde,
Dost a dark and shadowy plate,
give reason for great comfort,
to eirie things that speed across such tiny realms,
unsure of their home coming, or their fate??

Shakespeare, 1502.

Since the tube's elements are contained in a vacuum, the only
way for heat to be transferred is radiation. So, for your
conjecture to work, the plate would have to be an excellent
reflector, like a mirror, not an excellent absorber.

-Chuck

sPoNiX wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:08:57 +0100, "Mikkel C. Simonsen"
wrote:


David Axt wrote:

Are black plate tubes really better than gray plate tubes?

Don't worry about the plate colour - it doesn't matter. A black plate
RCA 6L6GC may be better than a grey plate RCA 6L6GC, but that's just one
specific tube. You can't make any general rules based on plate colour...


The theory goes that the black plates absorb heat better than the grey
ones!

This means the cathode heats up quicker and runs slightly hotter,
emitting more electrons.

(There is numerous info on the web as to why black plates are
preferable to grey ones.)

I'd admit the effect is very small but noticeable nonetheless.

sPoNiX

"Patrick Turner" wrote in message
...


"sPoNiX" wrote:

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:56:02 +0800, "·à¤l¤f"
wrote:

Black color helps heat radiation, so a black plate is normally cooler.

But a black plate will Absorb heat from the heater better, therefore
getting hotter!

sPoNiX

Maybe it absorbs electrons better to, so that's why its black.

What sayest ye tube makers of olde,
Dost a dark and shadowy plate,
give reason for great comfort,
to eirie things that speed across such tiny realms,
unsure of their home coming, or their fate??

Shakespeare, 1502.



'Is this a plate I see before me, come let me clutch thee'.....OUCH!!

Shakespeare at 1503 (in the afternoon)

"Choky" wrote in message
...
nope.


Yes, Yes!!! beginning a great debate

--
Choky
Prodanovic Aleksandar
YU


"David Axt" wrote in message
...
Are black plate tubes really better than gray plate tubes?

Thanks,
David

"Chuck Harris" wrote in message
...
Since the tube's elements are contained in a vacuum, the only
way for heat to be transferred is radiation. So, for your
conjecture to work, the plate would have to be an excellent
reflector, like a mirror, not an excellent absorber.

-Chuck

Hiya, Chuck.
the weird thing is, black also radiates heat better, and, taking high freq.
light & absorbing it (the fil *glow* along with radiant heat), it reimitts
it at lower freq's, thus providing *more* radiant heat. Now, the theory's
still goofy - i'm sure posts I haven't got to yet explain why.
-dim


sPoNiX wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:08:57 +0100, "Mikkel C. Simonsen"
wrote:


David Axt wrote:

Are black plate tubes really better than gray plate tubes?

Don't worry about the plate colour - it doesn't matter. A black plate
RCA 6L6GC may be better than a grey plate RCA 6L6GC, but that's just one
specific tube. You can't make any general rules based on plate colour...


The theory goes that the black plates absorb heat better than the grey
ones!

This means the cathode heats up quicker and runs slightly hotter,
emitting more electrons.

(There is numerous info on the web as to why black plates are
preferable to grey ones.)

I'd admit the effect is very small but noticeable nonetheless.

sPoNiX

"Patrick Turner" wrote in message
...


"sPoNiX" wrote:

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:56:02 +0800, "·à¤l¤f"
wrote:

Black color helps heat radiation, so a black plate is normally cooler.

But a black plate will Absorb heat from the heater better, therefore
getting hotter!

sPoNiX

Maybe it absorbs electrons better to, so that's why its black.

What sayest ye tube makers of olde,
Dost a dark and shadowy plate,
give reason for great comfort,
to eirie things that speed across such tiny realms,
unsure of their home coming, or their fate??

Shakespeare, 1502.


Bwah! love that.

"Fred Nachbaur" wrote in message
...


David Axt wrote:
Are black plate tubes really better than gray plate tubes?

Thanks,
David

Better for what? I could probably be argued that they're better for heat
dissipation, but even that would probably be very minor.

Some people can claim to hear a difference, but I wonder how much this
hearing acuity would be reduced if they couldn't see which colour plate
was in there at any given listening session.

Cheers,
Fred


All Plates are gray at night...

Patrick, Shakespeare could not have written this in 1502. Perhaps 1602?

"Patrick Turner" wrote in message
...


"sPoNiX" wrote:

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:56:02 +0800, "·à¤l¤f"
wrote:

Black color helps heat radiation, so a black plate is normally cooler.

But a black plate will Absorb heat from the heater better, therefore
getting hotter!

sPoNiX

Maybe it absorbs electrons better to, so that's why its black.

What sayest ye tube makers of olde,
Dost a dark and shadowy plate,
give reason for great comfort,
to eirie things that speed across such tiny realms,
unsure of their home coming, or their fate??

Shakespeare, 1502.

Behold, Shiva scribbled:


"sPoNiX" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 22:14:30 -0700, "David Axt"
wrote:

Are black plate tubes really better than gray plate tubes?

Yes.

They're so ... *BLACK*. If you listen to mainly black preformers, go
with the black plates. If you wwish to be open to any kind of musick,
then gray plates are the way to go. If you listen primarily to white
music, then the silver plates are the one to get.

LOL! Amusingly put fellow honky ;-)

--
Gregg
*It's probably useful, even if it can't be SPICE'd*

yope.
(continuing the great debate!)

--
Choky
Prodanovic Aleksandar
YU



"Shiva" wrote in message
...

"Choky" wrote in message
...
nope.


Yes, Yes!!! beginning a great debate

--
Choky
Prodanovic Aleksandar
YU


"David Axt" wrote in message
...
Are black plate tubes really better than gray plate tubes?

Thanks,
David

Behold, Shiva scribbled:


"Fred Nachbaur" wrote in message
...


David Axt wrote:
Are black plate tubes really better than gray plate tubes?

Thanks,
David

Better for what? I could probably be argued that they're better for
heat dissipation, but even that would probably be very minor.

Some people can claim to hear a difference, but I wonder how much this
hearing acuity would be reduced if they couldn't see which colour plate
was in there at any given listening session.

Cheers,
Fred


All Plates are gray at night...

The black plates tend to make a stronger warp-field for my spaceship.

--
Gregg
*It's probably useful, even if it can't be SPICE'd*

"·à¤l¤f" wrote in message
...
Electrons hitting on a plate lose some of their kinetic energy, which
is changed to heat energy, causing the plate temperature rises.
More electrons will bounce back on a hot plate than on a cool one,
and the loose electrons generate a certain amount of noises,
but noises is not necessary bad, in fact a suitable amount of pink noise
gives a warm pleasant tone. I have met an old man placed a digital clock
beside his amp so as to get the right pink noise.
Black color helps heat radiation, so a black plate is normally cooler.
If one thinks that quiet clean music is better, then black plate is better
for him.
Any comments?

mumbo jumbo.

--
Choky
Prodanovic Aleksandar
YU

I'm not even going to ask about brown bases vs. black bases!!!!

DA


"Shiva" wrote in message
...

"Fred Nachbaur" wrote in message
...


David Axt wrote:
Are black plate tubes really better than gray plate tubes?

Thanks,
David

Better for what? I could probably be argued that they're better for heat
dissipation, but even that would probably be very minor.

Some people can claim to hear a difference, but I wonder how much this
hearing acuity would be reduced if they couldn't see which colour plate
was in there at any given listening session.

Cheers,
Fred


All Plates are gray at night...

"Gregg" wrote in message
...
Behold, Shiva scribbled:


"sPoNiX" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 22:14:30 -0700, "David Axt"
wrote:

Are black plate tubes really better than gray plate tubes?

Yes.

They're so ... *BLACK*. If you listen to mainly black preformers, go
with the black plates. If you wwish to be open to any kind of musick,
then gray plates are the way to go. If you listen primarily to white
music, then the silver plates are the one to get.

LOL! Amusingly put fellow honky ;-)


That's CRACKER to you!

--
Gregg
*It's probably useful, even if it can't be SPICE'd*

"David Axt" wrote in message
...
I listen to Tower of Power, they have both negro and honky musicians. Now
what do I do? ;-)

DA


Oh, come on, use some deductive reasoning - GRAY plates, of course!
-dim (colorblind & tonedef)


"Shiva" wrote in message
...

"sPoNiX" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 22:14:30 -0700, "David Axt"
wrote:

Are black plate tubes really better than gray plate tubes?

Yes.

They're so ... *BLACK*. If you listen to mainly black preformers, go
with
the black plates. If you wwish to be open to any kind of musick, then
gray
plates are the way to go. If you listen primarily to white music, then
the
silver plates are the one to get.

"Choky" wrote in message
...
yope.
(continuing the great debate!)

--
Choky
Prodanovic Aleksandar
YU


I take it as a mixture of "yes" and "nope"? Now you take that back getting
*furious*



"Shiva" wrote in message
...

"Choky" wrote in message
...
nope.


Yes, Yes!!! beginning a great debate

--
Choky
Prodanovic Aleksandar
YU


"David Axt" wrote in message
...
Are black plate tubes really better than gray plate tubes?

Thanks,
David

"Chuck Harris" wrote in message
...
Ah! But he said that black plates absorb heat better, and
thus make the cathode hotter. My feable mind is struggling
overtime with the logic of that statement.

-Chuck

OBTW, I think that black plates give the music darker overtones,
where as grey plates give the music a much more balanced
and neutral sound.. a balance of yin and yang, black and white.

However, it all shifts if the lights are out. Then the music
gets a more somber and and less detailed look.. I mean sound.


That's the photons hitting the black plate. A very distinctive sound,
though some some people confuse it with the sound of mezons decaying...
That's why it's really important to seal off all your windows with tinfoil,
and wear a tinfoil hat on your head goes back into his Orgon Chamber


Shiva wrote:
"Chuck Harris" wrote in message
...

Since the tube's elements are contained in a vacuum, the only
way for heat to be transferred is radiation. So, for your
conjecture to work, the plate would have to be an excellent
reflector, like a mirror, not an excellent absorber.

-Chuck


Hiya, Chuck.
the weird thing is, black also radiates heat better, and, taking high
freq.
light & absorbing it (the fil *glow* along with radiant heat), it
reimitts
it at lower freq's, thus providing *more* radiant heat. Now, the
theory's
still goofy - i'm sure posts I haven't got to yet explain why.
-dim


sPoNiX wrote:

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:08:57 +0100, "Mikkel C. Simonsen"
wrote:



David Axt wrote:


Are black plate tubes really better than gray plate tubes?

Don't worry about the plate colour - it doesn't matter. A black plate
RCA 6L6GC may be better than a grey plate RCA 6L6GC, but that's just
one
specific tube. You can't make any general rules based on plate
colour...


The theory goes that the black plates absorb heat better than the grey
ones!

This means the cathode heats up quicker and runs slightly hotter,
emitting more electrons.

(There is numerous info on the web as to why black plates are
preferable to grey ones.)

I'd admit the effect is very small but noticeable nonetheless.

sPoNiX

"Gregg" wrote in message
...
Behold, Shiva scribbled:


"Fred Nachbaur" wrote in message
...


David Axt wrote:
Are black plate tubes really better than gray plate tubes?

Thanks,
David

Better for what? I could probably be argued that they're better for
heat dissipation, but even that would probably be very minor.

Some people can claim to hear a difference, but I wonder how much this
hearing acuity would be reduced if they couldn't see which colour plate
was in there at any given listening session.

Cheers,
Fred


All Plates are gray at night...

The black plates tend to make a stronger warp-field for my spaceship.

--
Gregg
*It's probably useful, even if it can't be SPICE'd*

"Gregg" wrote in message
...
Behold, Shiva scribbled:


"Fred Nachbaur" wrote in message
...


David Axt wrote:
Are black plate tubes really better than gray plate tubes?

Thanks,
David

Better for what? I could probably be argued that they're better for
heat dissipation, but even that would probably be very minor.

Some people can claim to hear a difference, but I wonder how much this
hearing acuity would be reduced if they couldn't see which colour plate
was in there at any given listening session.

Cheers,
Fred


All Plates are gray at night...

The black plates tend to make a stronger warp-field for my spaceship.


I belive the correct term is "warpier" warp field.

--
Gregg
*It's probably useful, even if it can't be SPICE'd*

Black plate tubes and Grey plate tubes sound 'different' whether better of
worse depends on the particular application and personal taste of the
listener..

"David Axt" wrote in message
...
Are black plate tubes really better than gray plate tubes?

Thanks,
David

my tubes are bigger and blacker than yours!

--
Choky
Prodanovic Aleksandar
YU


"Shiva" wrote in message
...

I take it as a mixture of "yes" and "nope"? Now you take that back
getting
*furious*

A heater is surrounded by a plate.
When the inside face of a plate could not absorb
heat efficiently (and so could not radiates
outside efficiently), the temperature inside
rises. To the worst case, it becomes red-hot.
For a extream high plate current,
a gray plate becomes red-hot earlier than a
graphite coated plate.

"sPoNiX" ¦b¶l¥ó
¤¤¼¶¼g...
On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:56:02 +0800, "·à¤l¤f"
wrote:

Black color helps heat radiation, so a black plate is normally cooler.

But a black plate will Absorb heat from the heater better, therefore
getting hotter!

sPoNiX


---
Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net
Complaints to

a huge transformer vs a tinny one
a tube vs a transistor

"Choky" ¦b¶l¥ó ¤¤¼¶
¼g...

mumbo jumbo.

--
Choky
Prodanovic Aleksandar
YU





---
Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net
Complaints to

"David Axt" wrote in message
...
I'm not even going to ask about brown bases vs. black bases!!!!

They suck! Get ceramic! ;-)

Tim (*dreaming of 6384*)

--
In the immortal words of Ned Flanders: "No foot longs!"
Website @ http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms

Shiva wrote:
"Choky" wrote in message
...

nope.



Yes, Yes!!! beginning a great debate

OK you win. Black plates are much much much better than grey ones. Why?
Well, because they're black. And black is in.

Cheers,
Fred

Shiva wrote:
"Chuck Harris" wrote in message
...

Since the tube's elements are contained in a vacuum, the only
way for heat to be transferred is radiation. So, for your
conjecture to work, the plate would have to be an excellent
reflector, like a mirror, not an excellent absorber.

-Chuck


Hiya, Chuck.
the weird thing is, black also radiates heat better, and, taking high freq.
light & absorbing it (the fil *glow* along with radiant heat), it reimitts
it at lower freq's, thus providing *more* radiant heat. Now, the theory's
still goofy - i'm sure posts I haven't got to yet explain why.
-dim

Don't confuse heat and temperature (not specifically directed at you,
dim). The amount of heat emitted by a tube is essentially constant, and
is exactly equal to the heat put into the tube once equilibrium is
attained. The heat put into the tube is the sum of the power
dissipations - plate, screen, grid (if applicable) and heater.

Since the plate envelopes the rest of the structure, most of the heat
generated in the tube will be absorbed by the plate, regardless of its
colour. The only heat that isn't absorbed by the plate is the heat
that's radiated out through the top and bottom openings - and is
essentially constant. This implies that the heat absorbed by the plate
is constant also, and I repeat, is independant of the plate's
absorptiveness.

However, the *temperature* of the plate will be higher if it's silver or
grey, because it's not as good an emitter of heat as is one coated with
carbon-black etc. Therefore, all other things being equal, a black plate
will run slightly cooler for a given amount of heat transfer.

Will this make a difference in the sound? Nope. Does it look nice? Yup.

Cheers,
Fred

Nup! Obviously.

Choky wrote:
yope.
(continuing the great debate!)

--
Choky
Prodanovic Aleksandar
YU



"Shiva" wrote in message
...

"Choky" wrote in message
...

nope.


Yes, Yes!!! beginning a great debate

--
Choky
Prodanovic Aleksandar
YU


"David Axt" wrote in message
...

Are black plate tubes really better than gray plate tubes?

Thanks,
David

good design is good design;
no matter it's tube or xformer or xsistor or black or gray plate.
in area of multiplied max dissipation,all tubes are crappy
gray or black plate is mumbo jumbo,thinking about all other more significant
issues in construction of tube.
hehe........

--
Choky
Prodanovic Aleksandar
YU


"·à¤l¤f" wrote in message
...
a huge transformer vs a tinny one
a tube vs a transistor

"Choky" ¦b¶l¥ó
¤¤¼¶
¼g...

mumbo jumbo.

--
Choky
Prodanovic Aleksandar
YU





---
Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net
Complaints to

Behold, Shiva scribbled:


"Gregg" wrote in message
...
Behold, Shiva scribbled:


"sPoNiX" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 22:14:30 -0700, "David Axt"
wrote:

Are black plate tubes really better than gray plate tubes?

Yes.

They're so ... *BLACK*. If you listen to mainly black preformers, go
with the black plates. If you wwish to be open to any kind of
musick, then gray plates are the way to go. If you listen primarily
to white music, then the silver plates are the one to get.

LOL! Amusingly put fellow honky ;-)


That's CRACKER to you!

:-p

--
Gregg
*It's probably useful, even if it can't be SPICE'd*

"Choky" wrote in message
...
my tubes are bigger and blacker than yours!

--
Choky
Prodanovic Aleksandar
YU


You just keep thinkin' that. My toobs are so black they've got an event
horizon...

"Shiva" wrote in message
...

I take it as a mixture of "yes" and "nope"? Now you take that back
getting
*furious*

Fred Nachbaur wrote:



However, the *temperature* of the plate will be higher if it's silver
or grey, because it's not as good an emitter of heat as is one coated
with carbon-black etc. Therefore, all other things being equal, a
black plate will run slightly cooler for a given amount of heat transfer.

Supposidly a feature of compactron tubes were the use of plates that
reflect cathode heat back
to the cathode, thus reducing the amount of heater power required.
Maybe some plate dissapation
heat was also deposited on the cathode? Idea was that the total power
required would be less,
and the TV chassis would be less warm.

Aren't some of the Chinese KT-88's, 2A3's and others built using black
plates for anodes?

C.W.

"Rich Sherman" wrote in message . ..
Black plate tubes and Grey plate tubes sound 'different' whether better of
worse depends on the particular application and personal taste of the
listener..

"David Axt" wrote in message
...
Are black plate tubes really better than gray plate tubes?

Thanks,
David