Hi All,
My knowledge is way out of date on home theater standards, so I'm looking
for a little help.
I'm looking to upgrade from pro-logic to "current" standards, and see 6.1
and 7.1 recievers out there.
As far as I can tell, DVDs are just recently recording in 6.1, specifically
for DTS-ES for discrete 6.1, and Dolby-EX simulates a 6th channel from the
5.1 rears. Additionally 7.1 receivers seem to be repeating the 6th signal
over a 7th speaker. If so, it looks to me like 7.1 may be overkill for a
small listening area.
Is this correct? I'm just trying to make sure before I spend the money.

I narrowed my search down to the Onkyo brand name, and I've got a chance to
buy either of these 2 Onkyo receivers, refurbished, with extended
warranties.
The 601 is about the same price as a new 502, which is $55 more than the
refurb 502. (the 601 is also about $100 less than a new TX-SR602).
Apparently I missed a sale on the 602

It seems that the 601 has every feature that the 502 has and most of the 602
features except for Dolby Pro-Logic IIx, whiche the 502 has, where a 5.1
signal is processed to produce a "phantom" 7.1. Any opinions on the value of
Pro-Logic IIx or comparing these 2 (3) receivers? $55 seems like a decent
premium for 2nd audio source to remote room, composite-to-S-Video
conversion, OSD, and a bit more power

Any help appreciated

I don't mean to throw a monkey wrench at you, but nice though the Onkyo is,
you could do better with a Yamaha or a Denon. Rotel has also been getting
lots of positives, though I have no experience with them. Between the two
Onkyo's I would choose whichever is newer, trying to get the latest
features - surround receivers formats change so fast these days. At least
get a few more months out of it before the inevitable obsolescence.

Mark Z.
Authorized servicer for Onkyo, Yamaha, Denon


"News" wrote in message
...
Hi All,
My knowledge is way out of date on home theater standards, so I'm looking
for a little help.
I'm looking to upgrade from pro-logic to "current" standards, and see 6.1
and 7.1 recievers out there.
As far as I can tell, DVDs are just recently recording in 6.1,
specifically
for DTS-ES for discrete 6.1, and Dolby-EX simulates a 6th channel from the
5.1 rears. Additionally 7.1 receivers seem to be repeating the 6th signal
over a 7th speaker. If so, it looks to me like 7.1 may be overkill for a
small listening area.
Is this correct? I'm just trying to make sure before I spend the money.

I narrowed my search down to the Onkyo brand name, and I've got a chance
to
buy either of these 2 Onkyo receivers, refurbished, with extended
warranties.
The 601 is about the same price as a new 502, which is $55 more than the
refurb 502. (the 601 is also about $100 less than a new TX-SR602).
Apparently I missed a sale on the 602

It seems that the 601 has every feature that the 502 has and most of the
602
features except for Dolby Pro-Logic IIx, whiche the 502 has, where a 5.1
signal is processed to produce a "phantom" 7.1. Any opinions on the value
of
Pro-Logic IIx or comparing these 2 (3) receivers? $55 seems like a decent
premium for 2nd audio source to remote room, composite-to-S-Video
conversion, OSD, and a bit more power

Any help appreciated

I bought the Yamaha RX-V2500 with 130W per channel, 7.1 and automatic,
graphics based setup. The automatic setup determined that my from t main
speaker was out of phase, and that my two rear surrounds were not correctly
connected. Then it sets about determining the adjustments for your
listening position. It's quite impressive and resulted in a much better
listening experience.

Other receivers may have this feature, but with the GUI interface shown on
your TV during setup, it was very easy. The reviews of the Yamaha are good
as well. I also looked at the Rotel 1067 ($2200) and the Denon 2805 and
3805. Only the Yamaha meets the THX-certification criteria and also was
reasonably priced. With 130W per channel, it was also the most powerful.

The retail price is $1099 US. I paid $1000 at an authorized dealer.
On-line prices are ~$700 with no Yamaha warranty.

Good luck and let us know what you choose.

- Russ in Santa Barbara

"News" wrote in message
...
Hi All,
My knowledge is way out of date on home theater standards, so I'm looking
for a little help.
I'm looking to upgrade from pro-logic to "current" standards, and see 6.1
and 7.1 recievers out there.
As far as I can tell, DVDs are just recently recording in 6.1,
specifically
for DTS-ES for discrete 6.1, and Dolby-EX simulates a 6th channel from the
5.1 rears. Additionally 7.1 receivers seem to be repeating the 6th signal
over a 7th speaker. If so, it looks to me like 7.1 may be overkill for a
small listening area.
Is this correct? I'm just trying to make sure before I spend the money.

I narrowed my search down to the Onkyo brand name, and I've got a chance
to
buy either of these 2 Onkyo receivers, refurbished, with extended
warranties.
The 601 is about the same price as a new 502, which is $55 more than the
refurb 502. (the 601 is also about $100 less than a new TX-SR602).
Apparently I missed a sale on the 602

It seems that the 601 has every feature that the 502 has and most of the
602
features except for Dolby Pro-Logic IIx, whiche the 502 has, where a 5.1
signal is processed to produce a "phantom" 7.1. Any opinions on the value
of
Pro-Logic IIx or comparing these 2 (3) receivers? $55 seems like a decent
premium for 2nd audio source to remote room, composite-to-S-Video
conversion, OSD, and a bit more power

Any help appreciated

Thanks for the Yamaha and Denon advocacy. I did consider them (and Harman
Kardon), and while I'm always open to change my mind, I initally passed them
over for the following:

All seem to do well in user/web reviews and in the magazines, and at the
price point that I'm looking at ($200 - $250, or less, to my door), here's
what I saw:
Models and notes:
Onkyo TX-SR601($250+ delivered). Only missing Prologic-IIx (which I think I
don't need in my case), but has plenty of power, 192KHz/24bit DACs on
stereo, converts composite to s-vid, and allows a 2nd audio source to a 2nd
zone. Plenty of video inputs (satellite, dvd, vcr, in the future computer
and game console) with digital input on front

Onkyo TX-SR502($200 delivered). 3 year extended warranty, very hard to beat
for the price. This was a done deal except that I saw the above 601 for $55
more, 9mos less warranty and missing Prologic IIx, thus my original post.

Denon AVR-1705($295 delivered is a tiny bit out of my range, but it was the
comparable model). The thing that nagged me here was that in looking in
other brands reviews/opinions, I saw complaints about dealing with Denon for
warranty service, which is what made the user try the other brand. It seemed
to be more common against Denon. Maybe you can dispel that, or give some
insight given the fact that your an authorized service center for the 3
brands in question. Any info appreciated here, as I was originally intending
to research and buy Denon until I noticed this, then went on to Onkyo. (I
also looked at the AVR-485, but ruled against it for the same reasons as the
Yamahas below).

Yamaha HTR-5650 ($235 delivered) (most of the usability features, less of
the Dolby/DTS versions)
Yamaha HTR-5740 ($250 delivered) (less of the usability features, more of
the Dolby/DTS versions)

Yamaha has got the great sound reviews, but their receivers missed out on
some usability features like the 2nd audio source to zone B, fewer digital
and s-video inputs, on-screen display, etc. If Yamaha was better sounding,
could I live with a "lesser" receiver for those extra features? I thought it
may be worthwhile, since with the satellite and dvd and who knows what else
later putting out higher quality video, it would mean possibly swapping out
the receiver for the wrong reasons (video switching quality/bandwidth)
before I switched for sound reasons.

HK AVR 320 ($275-$300 delivered, used)
I just wasn't sure that I wanted a receiver without any kind of warranty,
and not having the up to date decoding versions without a better price.

I'll go back and research these again, unless there are othere models
suggested(I am open to open-box/refurbished/etc as long as I can get a
warranty).
My max price is $250 to my door, unless it's an exceptional deal.

For those interested in the low end of the price pool, I have only read good
reviews of the Panasonic SA-HE100 ($175) and (*gasp*) the Sherwood 7108
($155) delivered but $200 for an Onkyo 502 or $250 for an Onkyo 601 seemed
too small a gap to leave uncrossed.

Thanks for the replies, any additional info greatly appreciated

"Mark D. Zacharias" wrote in message
...
I don't mean to throw a monkey wrench at you, but nice though the Onkyo
is,
you could do better with a Yamaha or a Denon. Rotel has also been getting
lots of positives, though I have no experience with them. Between the two
Onkyo's I would choose whichever is newer, trying to get the latest
features - surround receivers formats change so fast these days. At least
get a few more months out of it before the inevitable obsolescence.

Mark Z.
Authorized servicer for Onkyo, Yamaha, Denon


"News" wrote in message
...
Hi All,
My knowledge is way out of date on home theater standards, so I'm
looking
for a little help.
I'm looking to upgrade from pro-logic to "current" standards, and see
6.1
and 7.1 recievers out there.
As far as I can tell, DVDs are just recently recording in 6.1,
specifically
for DTS-ES for discrete 6.1, and Dolby-EX simulates a 6th channel from
the
5.1 rears. Additionally 7.1 receivers seem to be repeating the 6th
signal
over a 7th speaker. If so, it looks to me like 7.1 may be overkill for a
small listening area.
Is this correct? I'm just trying to make sure before I spend the money.

I narrowed my search down to the Onkyo brand name, and I've got a chance
to
buy either of these 2 Onkyo receivers, refurbished, with extended
warranties.
The 601 is about the same price as a new 502, which is $55 more than the
refurb 502. (the 601 is also about $100 less than a new TX-SR602).
Apparently I missed a sale on the 602

It seems that the 601 has every feature that the 502 has and most of the
602
features except for Dolby Pro-Logic IIx, whiche the 502 has, where a 5.1
signal is processed to produce a "phantom" 7.1. Any opinions on the
value
of
Pro-Logic IIx or comparing these 2 (3) receivers? $55 seems like a
decent
premium for 2nd audio source to remote room, composite-to-S-Video
conversion, OSD, and a bit more power

Any help appreciated

"News" wrote in message
...
Thanks for the Yamaha and Denon advocacy. I did consider them (and Harman
Kardon), and while I'm always open to change my mind, I initally passed
them
over for the following:

I don't favor Harman Kardon, mainly because they don't seem like quite a
"legitimate" manufacturer. They haven't built their own stuff for DECADES.
Their recent year receiver are sourced from Hu-Nos-Hu (probably Philips) in
China, except one model I saw was based on the Marantz SR-7000. Their DVD
players are Philips-based, made in China and are the most unserviceable I've
ever seen, and not even very reliable. I should be honest and mention that I
have a simple prejudice against anything Philips.


All seem to do well in user/web reviews and in the magazines, and at the
price point that I'm looking at ($200 - $250, or less, to my door), here's
what I saw:
Models and notes:
Onkyo TX-SR601($250+ delivered). Only missing Prologic-IIx (which I think
I
don't need in my case), but has plenty of power, 192KHz/24bit DACs on
stereo, converts composite to s-vid, and allows a 2nd audio source to a
2nd
zone. Plenty of video inputs (satellite, dvd, vcr, in the future computer
and game console) with digital input on front

Upconverting composite to S-Video is neat - not many do that. So far as I
know, the whole point of multi-room operation is to play a second source
remotely - I think they pretty much all do that. A digital input on the
front is nice. I'd probably never use it, but lots of others would. Friends
bringing other stuff over, etc.


Onkyo TX-SR502($200 delivered). 3 year extended warranty, very hard to
beat
for the price. This was a done deal except that I saw the above 601 for
$55
more, 9mos less warranty and missing Prologic IIx, thus my original post.

Gotta admit the 502 looks like the better deal. Amp power is within 10
watts/channel, and has the newer features. Be a good idea to check whether
any of these are "B" stock units. More chances of problems - though the
warranties should take care of this if it happens.

A couple of things you might want to check are the remote controls - how
easy they are to read and use, for example, and the on-screen stuff (setups
and so forth). Some receivers are more complicated to set up. See if they
have a "quick set-up" function.


Denon AVR-1705($295 delivered is a tiny bit out of my range, but it was
the
comparable model). The thing that nagged me here was that in looking in
other brands reviews/opinions, I saw complaints about dealing with Denon
for
warranty service, which is what made the user try the other brand. It
seemed
to be more common against Denon. Maybe you can dispel that, or give some
insight given the fact that your an authorized service center for the 3
brands in question. Any info appreciated here, as I was originally
intending
to research and buy Denon until I noticed this, then went on to Onkyo. (I
also looked at the AVR-485, but ruled against it for the same reasons as
the
Yamahas below).

Denon probably doesn't have as many independent warranty servicers, but
getting service under the warranty shouldn't be a problem. Check with Onkyo
and Denon both to see if there's an authorized servicer in your area. That
way if something happens, you shouldn't have to ship it off.


Yamaha HTR-5650 ($235 delivered) (most of the usability features, less of
the Dolby/DTS versions)
Yamaha HTR-5740 ($250 delivered) (less of the usability features, more of
the Dolby/DTS versions)

Yamaha has got the great sound reviews, but their receivers missed out on
some usability features like the 2nd audio source to zone B, fewer digital
and s-video inputs, on-screen display, etc. If Yamaha was better sounding,
could I live with a "lesser" receiver for those extra features? I thought
it
may be worthwhile, since with the satellite and dvd and who knows what
else
later putting out higher quality video, it would mean possibly swapping
out
the receiver for the wrong reasons (video switching quality/bandwidth)
before I switched for sound reasons.

I've never really used the video functions of these - in fact I mostly only
use the various surround modes, soundfields, on-screen, etc when I have one
on the bench with a particular problem. However, I do think Yamaha probably
has the edge in DSP performance - they design and build their own processor
IC's etc, Denon and Onkyo buy theirs from whoever.
Yamaha has better technical support, too.


HK AVR 320 ($275-$300 delivered, used)
I just wasn't sure that I wanted a receiver without any kind of warranty,
and not having the up to date decoding versions without a better price.

I'll go back and research these again, unless there are othere models
suggested(I am open to open-box/refurbished/etc as long as I can get a
warranty).
My max price is $250 to my door, unless it's an exceptional deal.

For those interested in the low end of the price pool, I have only read
good
reviews of the Panasonic SA-HE100 ($175) and (*gasp*) the Sherwood 7108
($155) delivered but $200 for an Onkyo 502 or $250 for an Onkyo 601 seemed
too small a gap to leave uncrossed.

I used to like Technics (Panasonic) but that was decades ago. Stay away.
Sherwood has been putting out some high end stuff lately which is probably
pretty nice, but their lower - mid priced stuff has been pretty junky for
years. Stay away for now at least.


Mark Z.



Thanks for the replies, any additional info greatly appreciated

"Mark D. Zacharias" wrote in message
...
I don't mean to throw a monkey wrench at you, but nice though the Onkyo
is,
you could do better with a Yamaha or a Denon. Rotel has also been getting
lots of positives, though I have no experience with them. Between the two
Onkyo's I would choose whichever is newer, trying to get the latest
features - surround receivers formats change so fast these days. At least
get a few more months out of it before the inevitable obsolescence.

Mark Z.
Authorized servicer for Onkyo, Yamaha, Denon


"News" wrote in message
...
Hi All,
My knowledge is way out of date on home theater standards, so I'm
looking
for a little help.
I'm looking to upgrade from pro-logic to "current" standards, and see
6.1
and 7.1 recievers out there.
As far as I can tell, DVDs are just recently recording in 6.1,
specifically
for DTS-ES for discrete 6.1, and Dolby-EX simulates a 6th channel from
the
5.1 rears. Additionally 7.1 receivers seem to be repeating the 6th
signal
over a 7th speaker. If so, it looks to me like 7.1 may be overkill for
a
small listening area.
Is this correct? I'm just trying to make sure before I spend the money.

I narrowed my search down to the Onkyo brand name, and I've got a
chance
to
buy either of these 2 Onkyo receivers, refurbished, with extended
warranties.
The 601 is about the same price as a new 502, which is $55 more than
the
refurb 502. (the 601 is also about $100 less than a new TX-SR602).
Apparently I missed a sale on the 602

It seems that the 601 has every feature that the 502 has and most of
the
602
features except for Dolby Pro-Logic IIx, whiche the 502 has, where a
5.1
signal is processed to produce a "phantom" 7.1. Any opinions on the
value
of
Pro-Logic IIx or comparing these 2 (3) receivers? $55 seems like a
decent
premium for 2nd audio source to remote room, composite-to-S-Video
conversion, OSD, and a bit more power

Any help appreciated

"Mark D. Zacharias" wrote in message
...

"News" wrote in message
...
I don't favor Harman Kardon, mainly because they don't seem like quite a
"legitimate" manufacturer. They haven't built their own stuff for DECADES.
Their recent year receiver are sourced from Hu-Nos-Hu (probably Philips)
in
China, except one model I saw was based on the Marantz SR-7000. Their DVD
players are Philips-based, made in China and are the most unserviceable
I've
ever seen, and not even very reliable. I should be honest and mention that
I
have a simple prejudice against anything Philips.

Thanks for the heads up on that. This will probably rule them out as the
price was holding me back anyway. What's the problem(s?) with Philips?

Upconverting composite to S-Video is neat - not many do that. So far as I
know, the whole point of multi-room operation is to play a second source
remotely - I think they pretty much all do that. A digital input on the
front is nice. I'd probably never use it, but lots of others would.
Friends
bringing other stuff over, etc.

On the 601, you can play a different audio source to the 2nd zone (or even a
line out). For example, I can have a movie playing in one room from the DVD
input, but have a CD playing in the other room on speaker pair B (or run the
line out to the amp/reciever in the other room). All the others mentioned
here have A/B speaker setups for a single audio source playing in both
rooms. The digital input may be rarely used, but when it finally happens, it
would be very convenient. The TX-SR501 has plenty of potentially rarely used
features, but they will be eventually, and maybe worth the $55 now.

Gotta admit the 502 looks like the better deal. Amp power is within 10
watts/channel, and has the newer features. Be a good idea to check whether
any of these are "B" stock units. More chances of problems - though the
warranties should take care of this if it happens.

Both the 502 and 601 are refurbished, which is what gets the price down and
why I looked into extended warranties. Apparently I just missed a sale on a
brand new 602 for $300 delivered. Out of the price range, but might have
been worth it.

A couple of things you might want to check are the remote controls - how
easy they are to read and use, for example, and the on-screen stuff
(setups
and so forth). Some receivers are more complicated to set up. See if they
have a "quick set-up" function.

As far as I can tell, only the Onkyo 601 has OSD. As far as remotes go, I'm
looking into a universal LCD learning remote like a Pronto. I have too many
as it is

I've never really used the video functions of these - in fact I mostly
only
use the various surround modes, soundfields, on-screen, etc when I have
one
on the bench with a particular problem. However, I do think Yamaha
probably
has the edge in DSP performance - they design and build their own
processor
IC's etc, Denon and Onkyo buy theirs from whoever.
Yamaha has better technical support, too.

If there's one thing that I've seen it's that reviewers praise the Yamaha
DSPs while being lukewarm on just about everyone elses. While my experience
is limited, I have heard several usable Yamaha DSP settings while maybe 1 at
best on other brands. Definitely something to take into consideration.

I used to like Technics (Panasonic) but that was decades ago. Stay away.
Sherwood has been putting out some high end stuff lately which is probably
pretty nice, but their lower - mid priced stuff has been pretty junky for
years. Stay away for now at least.

Thanks again. It was just interesting to see how well received the Panasonic
and Sherwood units are on the low end of things. But again, for less than
$50 more in both cases, it's really toughh to overlook the Onkyo.

Thanks again Mark and Russ, of course, further comments still appreciated

Don't get me started on Philips. Their low -to- medium end equipment is made
as junky as possible by children and political prisoners. The physical
construction is shoddy and unusual. Parts are over priced, then not
available when you need them. Crummy phone service, and they have a
well-deserved reputation for not honoring consumer rebates. Even their
higher-end product gets crappy support. I could go on but the guys on this
groups are probably tired of hearing it.

Mark Z.


"News" wrote in message
...
"Mark D. Zacharias" wrote in message
...

"News" wrote in message
...
I don't favor Harman Kardon, mainly because they don't seem like quite a
"legitimate" manufacturer. They haven't built their own stuff for
DECADES.
Their recent year receiver are sourced from Hu-Nos-Hu (probably Philips)
in
China, except one model I saw was based on the Marantz SR-7000. Their DVD
players are Philips-based, made in China and are the most unserviceable
I've
ever seen, and not even very reliable. I should be honest and mention
that
I
have a simple prejudice against anything Philips.

Thanks for the heads up on that. This will probably rule them out as the
price was holding me back anyway. What's the problem(s?) with Philips?

Upconverting composite to S-Video is neat - not many do that. So far as I
know, the whole point of multi-room operation is to play a second source
remotely - I think they pretty much all do that. A digital input on the
front is nice. I'd probably never use it, but lots of others would.
Friends
bringing other stuff over, etc.

On the 601, you can play a different audio source to the 2nd zone (or even
a
line out). For example, I can have a movie playing in one room from the
DVD
input, but have a CD playing in the other room on speaker pair B (or run
the
line out to the amp/reciever in the other room). All the others mentioned
here have A/B speaker setups for a single audio source playing in both
rooms. The digital input may be rarely used, but when it finally happens,
it
would be very convenient. The TX-SR501 has plenty of potentially rarely
used
features, but they will be eventually, and maybe worth the $55 now.

Gotta admit the 502 looks like the better deal. Amp power is within 10
watts/channel, and has the newer features. Be a good idea to check
whether
any of these are "B" stock units. More chances of problems - though the
warranties should take care of this if it happens.

Both the 502 and 601 are refurbished, which is what gets the price down
and
why I looked into extended warranties. Apparently I just missed a sale on
a
brand new 602 for $300 delivered. Out of the price range, but might have
been worth it.

A couple of things you might want to check are the remote controls - how
easy they are to read and use, for example, and the on-screen stuff
(setups
and so forth). Some receivers are more complicated to set up. See if they
have a "quick set-up" function.

As far as I can tell, only the Onkyo 601 has OSD. As far as remotes go,
I'm
looking into a universal LCD learning remote like a Pronto. I have too
many
as it is

I've never really used the video functions of these - in fact I mostly
only
use the various surround modes, soundfields, on-screen, etc when I have
one
on the bench with a particular problem. However, I do think Yamaha
probably
has the edge in DSP performance - they design and build their own
processor
IC's etc, Denon and Onkyo buy theirs from whoever.
Yamaha has better technical support, too.

If there's one thing that I've seen it's that reviewers praise the Yamaha
DSPs while being lukewarm on just about everyone elses. While my
experience
is limited, I have heard several usable Yamaha DSP settings while maybe 1
at
best on other brands. Definitely something to take into consideration.

I used to like Technics (Panasonic) but that was decades ago. Stay away.
Sherwood has been putting out some high end stuff lately which is
probably
pretty nice, but their lower - mid priced stuff has been pretty junky for
years. Stay away for now at least.

Thanks again. It was just interesting to see how well received the
Panasonic
and Sherwood units are on the low end of things. But again, for less than
$50 more in both cases, it's really toughh to overlook the Onkyo.

Thanks again Mark and Russ, of course, further comments still appreciated

Fate stepped in once again.
I stumbled across a deal for a near-new Yamaha HTR-5740 with a 4 year
extended warranty and snapped it up. Since the warranty's good at a national
electronics chain, I think that I'll have a chance to see if I can live
without the video inputs, otherwise I'll sell it. An HTR 5650/5750 seems to
be the level that has the extra "goodies", but no deals popped up.
Otherwise I think that I would have went with the Onkyo TX-SR601 and lived
without the Prologic IIx and "settled" for Prologic II. I think that within
2 years as I add more A/V sources I'm going to wish I had the inputs of a
601 (or better yet a 602).

Now to find a rear center speaker...

"News" wrote in message
...
Thanks for the Yamaha and Denon advocacy. I did consider them (and Harman
Kardon), and while I'm always open to change my mind, I initally passed
them
over for the following:

All seem to do well in user/web reviews and in the magazines, and at the
price point that I'm looking at ($200 - $250, or less, to my door), here's
what I saw:
Models and notes:
Onkyo TX-SR601($250+ delivered). Only missing Prologic-IIx (which I think
I
don't need in my case), but has plenty of power, 192KHz/24bit DACs on
stereo, converts composite to s-vid, and allows a 2nd audio source to a
2nd
zone. Plenty of video inputs (satellite, dvd, vcr, in the future computer
and game console) with digital input on front

Onkyo TX-SR502($200 delivered). 3 year extended warranty, very hard to
beat
for the price. This was a done deal except that I saw the above 601 for
$55
more, 9mos less warranty and missing Prologic IIx, thus my original post.

Denon AVR-1705($295 delivered is a tiny bit out of my range, but it was
the
comparable model). The thing that nagged me here was that in looking in
other brands reviews/opinions, I saw complaints about dealing with Denon
for
warranty service, which is what made the user try the other brand. It
seemed
to be more common against Denon. Maybe you can dispel that, or give some
insight given the fact that your an authorized service center for the 3
brands in question. Any info appreciated here, as I was originally
intending
to research and buy Denon until I noticed this, then went on to Onkyo. (I
also looked at the AVR-485, but ruled against it for the same reasons as
the
Yamahas below).

Yamaha HTR-5650 ($235 delivered) (most of the usability features, less of
the Dolby/DTS versions)
Yamaha HTR-5740 ($250 delivered) (less of the usability features, more of
the Dolby/DTS versions)

Yamaha has got the great sound reviews, but their receivers missed out on
some usability features like the 2nd audio source to zone B, fewer digital
and s-video inputs, on-screen display, etc. If Yamaha was better sounding,
could I live with a "lesser" receiver for those extra features? I thought
it
may be worthwhile, since with the satellite and dvd and who knows what
else
later putting out higher quality video, it would mean possibly swapping
out
the receiver for the wrong reasons (video switching quality/bandwidth)
before I switched for sound reasons.

HK AVR 320 ($275-$300 delivered, used)
I just wasn't sure that I wanted a receiver without any kind of warranty,
and not having the up to date decoding versions without a better price.

I'll go back and research these again, unless there are othere models
suggested(I am open to open-box/refurbished/etc as long as I can get a
warranty).
My max price is $250 to my door, unless it's an exceptional deal.

For those interested in the low end of the price pool, I have only read
good
reviews of the Panasonic SA-HE100 ($175) and (*gasp*) the Sherwood 7108
($155) delivered but $200 for an Onkyo 502 or $250 for an Onkyo 601 seemed
too small a gap to leave uncrossed.

Thanks for the replies, any additional info greatly appreciated

"Mark D. Zacharias" wrote in message
...
I don't mean to throw a monkey wrench at you, but nice though the Onkyo
is,
you could do better with a Yamaha or a Denon. Rotel has also been
getting
lots of positives, though I have no experience with them. Between the
two
Onkyo's I would choose whichever is newer, trying to get the latest
features - surround receivers formats change so fast these days. At
least
get a few more months out of it before the inevitable obsolescence.

Mark Z.
Authorized servicer for Onkyo, Yamaha, Denon


"News" wrote in message
...
Hi All,
My knowledge is way out of date on home theater standards, so I'm
looking
for a little help.
I'm looking to upgrade from pro-logic to "current" standards, and see
6.1
and 7.1 recievers out there.
As far as I can tell, DVDs are just recently recording in 6.1,
specifically
for DTS-ES for discrete 6.1, and Dolby-EX simulates a 6th channel from
the
5.1 rears. Additionally 7.1 receivers seem to be repeating the 6th
signal
over a 7th speaker. If so, it looks to me like 7.1 may be overkill for
a
small listening area.
Is this correct? I'm just trying to make sure before I spend the
money.

I narrowed my search down to the Onkyo brand name, and I've got a
chance
to
buy either of these 2 Onkyo receivers, refurbished, with extended
warranties.
The 601 is about the same price as a new 502, which is $55 more than
the
refurb 502. (the 601 is also about $100 less than a new TX-SR602).
Apparently I missed a sale on the 602

It seems that the 601 has every feature that the 502 has and most of
the
602
features except for Dolby Pro-Logic IIx, whiche the 502 has, where a
5.1
signal is processed to produce a "phantom" 7.1. Any opinions on the
value
of
Pro-Logic IIx or comparing these 2 (3) receivers? $55 seems like a
decent
premium for 2nd audio source to remote room, composite-to-S-Video
conversion, OSD, and a bit more power

Any help appreciated