I'm looking for the best medium priced mic for female vocals. I'm a
soprano and my dynamic range is extremely wide along with my volume
levels. My lower notes tend to be more breathy and my higher notes are
very loud and belted out.

I have two different projects: one more ambient in nature, and the
second a heavy R&B sound that is reminiscent of Staxs Volts stuff.
Please give a listen at www.suewilkinson.com. I've taken home a Rode
K2 which sounded fairly good at Guitar Center run dry through pro
tools. I've also brought home a Eureka E2 preamp. I tried several mics
and narrowed it down to the cheaper Neunamm which gave me a more
"true" version of my voice I thought, but the k2 sounded warmer, but
with less personality. I also wondered what you might think of the AKG
414? Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated. BTW, this is
for a home studio. I have a korg D1600. Thanks.

Sue

"Sue G. Wilkinson" wrote in message
m...
I'm looking for the best medium priced mic for female vocals. I'm a
soprano and my dynamic range is extremely wide along with my volume
levels. My lower notes tend to be more breathy and my higher notes are
very loud and belted out.

Then a B.L.U.E. Blueberry might be a good mic for you, especially if you
like to work the mic close-in. It can take the high SPL's on your higher
notes without sounding raspy, and it has a bit of rolled-off sound on the
low end, which means your breathiness will come through without having
proximity effect issues on your lower notes.

I have two different projects: one more ambient in nature, and the
second a heavy R&B sound that is reminiscent of Staxs Volts stuff.
Please give a listen at www.suewilkinson.com.

Have anything on mp3 or .wav? I disdain using the Real Audio virus.

I've taken home a Rode
K2 which sounded fairly good at Guitar Center run dry through pro
tools. I've also brought home a Eureka E2 preamp. I tried several mics
and narrowed it down to the cheaper Neunamm

Are you referring to the TLM-103?

I also wondered what you might think of the AKG
414?

Personally I like 'em a lot for certain things, but I've never found a lead
vocal that I couldn't find a better mic for.

Neil Henderson

Hi Sue,

I listened some of the samples on your site and I think you are quite a good
singer. I particularly enjoyed the pop/alternative/ambient selections.

While it's always best to try stuff before you buy, and it's really a big
'guess' to recommend equipment for someone with only hearing lower quality
examples on computer speakers, common sense has never stopped me from
recommending stuff anyway. ;-)

If you were to come over to record at my place I'd want to try an
ElectroVoice RE-20 on you first, or a Shure SM7 or Stedman N90. I think you
might be surprised by one of those.

Also what Neumann model do you have, the TLM103? If so you should compare it
to a Neumann TLM 193, which I think might be complementary on your voice.
Also try a Soundelux U195 if you can.

And consider a CAD E300 or E350 ( may not handle really loud passages well )
and a BLUE Blueberry ( may have too much 'presence' for your voice )

Best of luck Sue!

John L Rice


"Sue G. Wilkinson" wrote in message
m...
I'm looking for the best medium priced mic for female vocals. I'm a
soprano and my dynamic range is extremely wide along with my volume
levels. My lower notes tend to be more breathy and my higher notes are
very loud and belted out.

I have two different projects: one more ambient in nature, and the
second a heavy R&B sound that is reminiscent of Staxs Volts stuff.
Please give a listen at www.suewilkinson.com. I've taken home a Rode
K2 which sounded fairly good at Guitar Center run dry through pro
tools. I've also brought home a Eureka E2 preamp. I tried several mics
and narrowed it down to the cheaper Neunamm which gave me a more
"true" version of my voice I thought, but the k2 sounded warmer, but
with less personality. I also wondered what you might think of the AKG
414? Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated. BTW, this is
for a home studio. I have a korg D1600. Thanks.

Sue

I'm looking for the best medium priced mic for female vocals. I'm a
soprano and my dynamic range is extremely wide along with my volume
levels. My lower notes tend to be more breathy and my higher notes are
very loud and belted out.

I have two different projects: one more ambient in nature, and the
second a heavy R&B sound that is reminiscent of Staxs Volts stuff.
Please give a listen at www.suewilkinson.com. I've taken home a Rode
K2 which sounded fairly good at Guitar Center run dry through pro
tools. I've also brought home a Eureka E2 preamp. I tried several mics
and narrowed it down to the cheaper Neunamm which gave me a more
"true" version of my voice I thought, but the k2 sounded warmer, but
with less personality. I also wondered what you might think of the AKG
414? Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated. BTW, this is
for a home studio. I have a korg D1600. Thanks.

Upgrade the tube in the K2 before ruling it out, and don't ignore the
NT2000. I'm no fan of the 414 for vocals, but it has worked well in a few
atypical situations. It comes down to what works best with your voice.
There are mics that sound good on a lot of different voices but there are
"best mics" at different budget levels for every voice, and it could be
anything under the sun. The TLM-103 is certainly a contender, though an
NT2000 or even an NT1000 should give it a run for its money (or half it's
money).

"Sue G. Wilkinson" wrote in message
m...
I'm looking for the best medium priced mic for female vocals. I'm a
soprano and my dynamic range is extremely wide along with my volume
levels. My lower notes tend to be more breathy and my higher notes are
very loud and belted out.

I have two different projects: one more ambient in nature, and the
second a heavy R&B sound that is reminiscent of Staxs Volts stuff.
Please give a listen at www.suewilkinson.com. I've taken home a Rode
K2 which sounded fairly good at Guitar Center run dry through pro
tools. I've also brought home a Eureka E2 preamp. I tried several mics
and narrowed it down to the cheaper Neunamm which gave me a more
"true" version of my voice I thought, but the k2 sounded warmer, but
with less personality. I also wondered what you might think of the AKG
414? Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated. BTW, this is
for a home studio. I have a korg D1600. Thanks.

If you're looking for a warmer sound, see if you can find a used Beyer M260
on ebay, or, yes, check out the new AKG C414B-ULS. For a brighter sound,
maybe the C414B-ULII might be worth looking at, but here's a suggestion out
of left field: see if you can try a Beyer M88. I think if I were going to
record you with a Neumann, it'd be a U-87, rather than one of the
less-expensive ones.

By the way, I liked your voice on the site; very mobile, esp. on the R&B
songs.

Peace,
Paul

I'd try the BLUE B6 lollipop capsule on a used(the older version where
the capsule screws off)AKG451. The BLUE vintage store posts the
capsules on ebay at 1/2 price sometimes, so your looking at about $450
for the capsule and a couple hundred for the 451. So far the
combination has worked really well for alot of female vocalists that
didn't sound so good on anything else.



Twist Turner
http://tinyurl.com/ul70

In article writes:

I'm looking for the best medium priced mic for female vocals.

I'm looking for the best medium-priced female. Like microphones,
they're all different and you need to find one that's best for you.

I'm a
soprano and my dynamic range is extremely wide along with my volume
levels. My lower notes tend to be more breathy and my higher notes are
very loud and belted out.

Microphones and their associated preamplifiers (preamps) have
sufficient dynamic range to handle any voice, however reproduction
systems rarely do. Whether for live performance or recording, you
really can't use the full dynamic range of your voice - you have to
control it yourself. Learning to "work" the microphone is part of that
skill, and different microphones work differently.

I tried several mics
and narrowed it down to the cheaper Neunamm which gave me a more
"true" version of my voice I thought, but the k2 sounded warmer, but
with less personality. I also wondered what you might think of the AKG
414?

It sounds like you're getting a sense of what to listen for. Because
it's been made for more than 20 years and has gone through several
variations, the AKG C414 "sound" is all over the map. I'd go for the
mic that gives you the most accurate representation of your voice, and
then try to tailor that a bit in the recording and mixing process.
When spending your own money, it's better to work with something you
can use rather than try to find the perfect mic.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Twist Turner wrote:
I'd try the BLUE B6 lollipop capsule on a used(the older version where
the capsule screws off)AKG451. The BLUE vintage store posts the
capsules on ebay at 1/2 price sometimes, so your looking at about $450
for the capsule and a couple hundred for the 451.

If you can find an A60M thread adapter, they sound great on a modified C460B (and presumably with a C480B as well.)

"Neil Henderson" wrote in message .com...
"Sue G. Wilkinson" wrote in message
m...
I'm looking for the best medium priced mic for female vocals. I'm a
soprano and my dynamic range is extremely wide along with my volume
levels. My lower notes tend to be more breathy and my higher notes are
very loud and belted out.

Then a B.L.U.E. Blueberry might be a good mic for you, especially if you
like to work the mic close-in. It can take the high SPL's on your higher
notes without sounding raspy, and it has a bit of rolled-off sound on the
low end, which means your breathiness will come through without having
proximity effect issues on your lower notes.
Hey Neil,

Thanks for responding Neil. The B.L.U.E. was actually what everyone
was high on at the store and I also heard Sting uses one of the really
expensive ones with all the bells and whistles. Unfortunatley, it
didn't sound that good with my voice, but from what you've described,
that is exactly what I need in a mic, so when I go back to get the
Neumann, I'll try the B.L.U.E. again.

I have two different projects: one more ambient in nature, and the
second a heavy R&B sound that is reminiscent of Staxs Volts stuff.
Please give a listen at www.suewilkinson.com.

Have anything on mp3 or .wav? I disdain using the Real Audio virus.

I could email you a couple of things.

I've taken home a Rode
K2 which sounded fairly good at Guitar Center run dry through pro
tools. I've also brought home a Eureka E2 preamp. I tried several mics
and narrowed it down to the cheaper Neunamm

Are you referring to the TLM-103?
Sorry for my ignorance, but as far as I can see it's called Rode K2..
It's the condenser mic that comes with the power supply and shock
mount. It has omni, cardioid and figure eight polar patters.

I also wondered what you might think of the AKG
414?

Personally I like 'em a lot for certain things, but I've never found a lead
vocal that I couldn't find a better mic for.

It doesn't seem to impress many people any more, but I've gotten some
vocal performances that were pretty good on it.

btw, are you familiar with the PreSonus Eureka preamp? I'm not at all
familiar with preamp, so I just went with what the salesman suggested.

Neil Henderson

"John L Rice" wrote in message ...
Hi Sue,

I listened some of the samples on your site and I think you are quite a good
singer. I particularly enjoyed the pop/alternative/ambient selections.

Thanks John for responding, and also thanks for the cudos. Yes, I'm
hoping to have an entire CD's worth of that stuff out in the next half
year or so.. Sympatico got around 50,000 downloads on mp3.com so
people tend to respond well to that particular tune. It's definitely
one of my personal favorites.

While it's always best to try stuff before you buy, and it's really a big
'guess' to recommend equipment for someone with only hearing lower quality
examples on computer speakers, common sense has never stopped me from
recommending stuff anyway. ;-)

If you were to come over to record at my place I'd want to try an
ElectroVoice RE-20 on you first, or a Shure SM7 or Stedman N90. I think you
might be surprised by one of those.

I called and talked to the salesman, and they don't carry any of these
guys. There is a smaller store that is more specialized, so I'm gonna
try over there and see if I can't track some of these down. Are they
older models?

Also what Neumann model do you have, the TLM103? If so you should compare it
to a Neumann TLM 193, which I think might be complementary on your voice.
Also try a Soundelux U195 if you can.

I'm pretty sure it's the TLM103. I believe it's the lowest priced
Neumann. The TLM 193 is more expensive isn't it?

And consider a CAD E300 or E350 ( may not handle really loud passages well )

Don't have these guys either, but I'll put them on the list.

and a BLUE Blueberry ( may have too much 'presence' for your voice )

I tried the BLUE, but it didn't sound very good with my voice. I think
I'm gonna try it again when I go back to pick up the 103 because
people keep recommending it.

Thanks again John,

sgw

Best of luck Sue!

John L Rice


"Sue G. Wilkinson" wrote in message
m...
I'm looking for the best medium priced mic for female vocals. I'm a
soprano and my dynamic range is extremely wide along with my volume
levels. My lower notes tend to be more breathy and my higher notes are
very loud and belted out.

I have two different projects: one more ambient in nature, and the
second a heavy R&B sound that is reminiscent of Staxs Volts stuff.
Please give a listen at www.suewilkinson.com. I've taken home a Rode
K2 which sounded fairly good at Guitar Center run dry through pro
tools. I've also brought home a Eureka E2 preamp. I tried several mics
and narrowed it down to the cheaper Neunamm which gave me a more
"true" version of my voice I thought, but the k2 sounded warmer, but
with less personality. I also wondered what you might think of the AKG
414? Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated. BTW, this is
for a home studio. I have a korg D1600. Thanks.

Sue

"Sugarite" wrote in message ...
I'm looking for the best medium priced mic for female vocals. I'm a
soprano and my dynamic range is extremely wide along with my volume
levels. My lower notes tend to be more breathy and my higher notes are
very loud and belted out.

I have two different projects: one more ambient in nature, and the
second a heavy R&B sound that is reminiscent of Staxs Volts stuff.
Please give a listen at www.suewilkinson.com. I've taken home a Rode
K2 which sounded fairly good at Guitar Center run dry through pro
tools. I've also brought home a Eureka E2 preamp. I tried several mics
and narrowed it down to the cheaper Neunamm which gave me a more
"true" version of my voice I thought, but the k2 sounded warmer, but
with less personality. I also wondered what you might think of the AKG
414? Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated. BTW, this is
for a home studio. I have a korg D1600. Thanks.

Upgrade the tube in the K2 before ruling it out, and don't ignore the
NT2000. I'm no fan of the 414 for vocals, but it has worked well in a few
atypical situations. It comes down to what works best with your voice.
There are mics that sound good on a lot of different voices but there are
"best mics" at different budget levels for every voice, and it could be
anything under the sun. The TLM-103 is certainly a contender, though an
NT2000 or even an NT1000 should give it a run for its money (or half it's
money).

Thanks for responding...I'm not familiar with the NT2000 or the
NT1000. Could you tell me the brand on those

Thanks,

sgw

If you were to come over to record at my place I'd want to try an
ElectroVoice RE-20 on you first, or a Shure SM7

Both may be a good choice...I've used the SM7 for female vocals with good
results.


Also what Neumann model do you have, the TLM103? If so you should compare
it
to a Neumann TLM 193, which I think might be complementary on your voice.

The TLM193 is usually my first try for a female vocalist...the bit of
"darkness" of the mike gives that nice breathy sound without being too
sibilant..

And consider a CAD E300 or E350 ( may not handle really loud passages
well )

Depends on the mic...I've found quite a bit of INconsistency with these
mics...they all sound quite different from each other...you have to listen
to the individual mic..

akg 3000

take a listen
www.soundclick.com/bacino


"Sue G. Wilkinson" wrote in message
om...
"Neil Henderson" wrote in message
.com...
"Sue G. Wilkinson" wrote in message
m...
I'm looking for the best medium priced mic for female vocals. I'm a
soprano and my dynamic range is extremely wide along with my volume
levels. My lower notes tend to be more breathy and my higher notes are
very loud and belted out.

Then a B.L.U.E. Blueberry might be a good mic for you, especially if you
like to work the mic close-in. It can take the high SPL's on your higher
notes without sounding raspy, and it has a bit of rolled-off sound on
the
low end, which means your breathiness will come through without having
proximity effect issues on your lower notes.
Hey Neil,

Thanks for responding Neil. The B.L.U.E. was actually what everyone
was high on at the store and I also heard Sting uses one of the really
expensive ones with all the bells and whistles. Unfortunatley, it
didn't sound that good with my voice, but from what you've described,
that is exactly what I need in a mic, so when I go back to get the
Neumann, I'll try the B.L.U.E. again.

I have two different projects: one more ambient in nature, and the
second a heavy R&B sound that is reminiscent of Staxs Volts stuff.
Please give a listen at www.suewilkinson.com.

Have anything on mp3 or .wav? I disdain using the Real Audio virus.

I could email you a couple of things.

I've taken home a Rode
K2 which sounded fairly good at Guitar Center run dry through pro
tools. I've also brought home a Eureka E2 preamp. I tried several mics
and narrowed it down to the cheaper Neunamm

Are you referring to the TLM-103?
Sorry for my ignorance, but as far as I can see it's called Rode K2..
It's the condenser mic that comes with the power supply and shock
mount. It has omni, cardioid and figure eight polar patters.

I also wondered what you might think of the AKG
414?

Personally I like 'em a lot for certain things, but I've never found a
lead
vocal that I couldn't find a better mic for.

It doesn't seem to impress many people any more, but I've gotten some
vocal performances that were pretty good on it.

btw, are you familiar with the PreSonus Eureka preamp? I'm not at all
familiar with preamp, so I just went with what the salesman suggested.

Neil Henderson

I'm pretty sure it's the TLM103. I believe it's the lowest priced
Neumann. The TLM 193 is more expensive isn't it? BRBR

The TLM193 is about $500 more than the TLM103. It's a much more accurate (less
hyped high end) mic, & thus sounds dark on many voices. If sibilance is a
problem for you, the TLM193 might be exactly what you need. I often start with
the 103, then move to the 193 if there is excessive sibilance. It's not a
male/female thing either. Some women sound better on the brighter mic (103)
some men sound better on the darker mic (193) it all depends on the voice.
Scott Fraser

check out the peluso clones. I'm not going to say it sounds as good as the
real thing but the u47 copy John Peluso makes is pretty nice.
--Lou Gimenez
The Music Lab
2" 24track w all the Goodies
www.musiclabnyc.com



From: (ScotFraser)
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
Date: 28 Nov 2004 15:32:31 GMT
Subject: Best medium priced mic for female vocals

I'm pretty sure it's the TLM103. I believe it's the lowest priced
Neumann. The TLM 193 is more expensive isn't it? BRBR

The TLM193 is about $500 more than the TLM103. It's a much more accurate (less
hyped high end) mic, & thus sounds dark on many voices. If sibilance is a
problem for you, the TLM193 might be exactly what you need. I often start with
the 103, then move to the 193 if there is excessive sibilance. It's not a
male/female thing either. Some women sound better on the brighter mic (103)
some men sound better on the darker mic (193) it all depends on the voice.
Scott Fraser

In article %Zlqd.157209$HA.136227@attbi_s01, jam12 wrote:
akg 3000

take a listen

No thank you. This has to be the most brittle-sounding microphone around.
I thought the 414B/ULS was screechy until I tried it.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

In article writes:

The B.L.U.E. [Blueberry] was actually what everyone
was high on at the store and I also heard Sting uses one of the really
expensive ones with all the bells and whistles. Unfortunatley, it
didn't sound that good with my voice,

This is the most important thing. Voices are different, and different
microphones accentuate different things. I'd suggest that when you go
back to the store, you do it at a time when they're not busy (take a
Tuesday morning off work if necessary) and set up several mics, try
each one with your voice, and - most important - RECORD your
experiments.

Bring in a blank CD. They should be able to set you up with something
that will allow you to make a recording there. Then, listen to the
recording at home. Don't try to make judgements only by listening to
yourself on headphones while you're singing in the store. There are
too many variables. You can't do anything to make the acoustical
environment like what you have at home, but if you keep the mics close
to the center of the room, you should at least reduce the effect of
reflections coming in from the back and sides (which is something you
can also control at home).

If you feel silly singing unaccompanied, bring in a portable music
player and headphones with something that you can sing to. And don't
forget to identify which mic you're singing into. But don't try to
record a mix or a pseudo Karaoke performance. Just record your voice.

Try a few mics that are too expensive. If one doesn't sound as good to
you as something you can afford, it will make you feel better. And if
they all sound better than what you can afford, at least you'll have a
standard of comparison. And don't be afraid to try mics that don't
look big and bulky.

The interface between the microphone and preamp (or mixer, or whatever
you're using for an input device in your home recording setup) makes a
difference too, but just to give everything you try a fair chance, use
something lowish-middle-of-the-road for all the mics. The MARS music
stores used to have a mic demo room with all the mics connected to
Mackie mixers which were less than optimum for most mics, but at least
it was a constant. Something like that would be OK. Using the best mic
preamp in the shop, unless you were prepared to buy it, would be
unfair.

btw, are you familiar with the PreSonus Eureka preamp? I'm not at all
familiar with preamp, so I just went with what the salesman suggested.

It's fairly new, and just hitting the magazine reviews this month.
Presonus usually does a pretty good job, so it's bound to be a fair
deal. Not exotic, but it's not likely to be a deterrent to making a
decent vocal recording. If that's what you have, then use that for
your test recordings. It has a lot of bells and whistles, too, so
bypass those to hear the basic sound of the mic.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article writes:

If you were to come over to record at my place I'd want to try an
ElectroVoice RE-20 on you first, or a Shure SM7 or Stedman N90.

I called and talked to the salesman, and they don't carry any of these
guys. There is a smaller store that is more specialized, so I'm gonna
try over there and see if I can't track some of these down. Are they
older models?

With the exception of the Stedman, more like old chestnuts. They might
have a PL20 which is the same as an RE20 but sold to the live sound
market rather than the broadcast or studio market (different box). The
SM7 is pretty specialized, as is the Stedman so you're not likely to
find one of those easily. But don't be afraid to try other dynamic
mics like the trusty Shure SM57 or SM58 (what do you use for live
performance?), or something from Beyer, or a Sennheiser MD441.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

"Sue G. Wilkinson" wrote in message
om...

and a BLUE Blueberry ( may have too much 'presence' for your voice )

I tried the BLUE, but it didn't sound very good with my voice. I think
I'm gonna try it again when I go back to pick up the 103 because
people keep recommending it.

Given what I heard on the streaming vocals, I suspect you're right to think
it didn't sound good with your voice. Something with less zing up top
(TLM-193, Beyer M260, some of the Rodes, RE20, SM7, etc.) would probably be
a good match. In the end, your ears are the determining factor; people
recommend the BLUE mics because they've worked for those people in the past,
but that doesn't mean they'll work for you. True of any mic, for that
matter. You're still the arbiter; we can point you toward things you might
want to audition, but your ears make up their own minds, if you'll pardon
the scrambled metaphor.

Peace,
Paul

Mike Rivers wrote:

The SM7 is pretty specialized

But versatile with those swithcable response curves.

--
ha

(Mike Rivers) wrote in message news:znr1101300303k@trad...
In article writes:

I'm looking for the best medium priced mic for female vocals.

I'm looking for the best medium-priced female. Like microphones,
they're all different and you need to find one that's best for you.

Hummm...the best females are priceless and if you are a nice guy
(which I'm sure you are) you deserve a priceless female!

I'm a
soprano and my dynamic range is extremely wide along with my volume
levels. My lower notes tend to be more breathy and my higher notes are
very loud and belted out.

Microphones and their associated preamplifiers (preamps) have
sufficient dynamic range to handle any voice, however reproduction
systems rarely do. Whether for live performance or recording, you
really can't use the full dynamic range of your voice - you have to
control it yourself. Learning to "work" the microphone is part of that
skill, and different microphones work differently.

I know this much from working live for many years.

I tried several mics
and narrowed it down to the cheaper Neunamm which gave me a more
"true" version of my voice I thought, but the k2 sounded warmer, but
with less personality. I also wondered what you might think of the AKG
414?

It sounds like you're getting a sense of what to listen for. Because
it's been made for more than 20 years and has gone through several
variations, the AKG C414 "sound" is all over the map.

So it is, or was it a popular recording mic for vocals ??

I'd go for the
mic that gives you the most accurate representation of your voice, and
then try to tailor that a bit in the recording and mixing process.
When spending your own money, it's better to work with something you
can use rather than try to find the perfect mic.

In that case, out of all the mics I tried the cheaper Neumann gave me
the truest representation of my voice. So instead of trying to find
something that "warms my voice up" your saying I sould do that with
maybe effects instead of ending up with a mic that would color my
voice in some way? That way I wouldn't be stuck with the same sound
each time I recorded?

"hank alrich" wrote in message
.. .
Mike Rivers wrote:

The SM7 is pretty specialized

But versatile with those swithcable response curves.

Huh? My SM7 doesn't have any switches at all. Are you
thinking of the MD-421?

Hal Laurent
Baltimore

In article znr1101651982k@trad, Mike Rivers wrote:

With the exception of the Stedman, more like old chestnuts. They might
have a PL20 which is the same as an RE20 but sold to the live sound
market rather than the broadcast or studio market (different box). The
SM7 is pretty specialized, as is the Stedman so you're not likely to
find one of those easily. But don't be afraid to try other dynamic
mics like the trusty Shure SM57 or SM58 (what do you use for live
performance?), or something from Beyer, or a Sennheiser MD441.

NOBODY in the MI market will carry the MD441. They might have the MD421,
but even that is kind of rare (and they will only know it as a kick drum
mike, they won't have any clue that it's one of the best vocal mikes around).
The 441 is totally foreign to the MI guys. Which is a shame, since it's
probably the best dynamic mike ever made in terms of neutral sound and
extreme directionality.

The key to finding any of this stuff is to stay away from the MI stores and
go looking for places that sell specifically to the pro audio market. The
guys at Guitar Center will never have seen an RE-20, even though it's probably
the most popular voiceover mike in the world.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Hal Laurent wrote:
"hank alrich" wrote in message
. ..
Mike Rivers wrote:

The SM7 is pretty specialized

But versatile with those swithcable response curves.

Huh? My SM7 doesn't have any switches at all. Are you
thinking of the MD-421?

Yes it does. Take the screws off the back plate and you will find a bunch
of them.

Personally, I have never found them to be useful... I have always got a
better sound with them all set flat. But you can try moving them around.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On 27 Nov 2004 23:49:54 -0800, (Sue G. Wilkinson)
wrote:


If you were to come over to record at my place I'd want to try an
ElectroVoice RE-20 on you first, or a Shure SM7 or Stedman N90. I think you
might be surprised by one of those.

I called and talked to the salesman, and they don't carry any of these
guys. There is a smaller store that is more specialized, so I'm gonna
try over there and see if I can't track some of these down. Are they
older models?

All the models he mentions are still in production, and most broadcast
supply places would have them in stock. The EV RE-20 has been around
for years. For some people a dynamic mic like the RE-20 works
perfectly... for exampe it is Bonnie Raitt's favorite studio mic from
what I've heard. They are a hell of a lot cheaper than Neumanns too.
Have you thought about going into a local well-equipped studio to
audtion some mics?

Al

maybe a good pre amp and a ear can help

jimmy

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
In article %Zlqd.157209$HA.136227@attbi_s01, jam12
wrote:
akg 3000

take a listen

No thank you. This has to be the most brittle-sounding microphone around.
I thought the 414B/ULS was screechy until I tried it.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On 28 Nov 2004 12:27:05 -0500, (Mike Rivers)
wrote:
....
This is the most important thing. Voices are different, and different
microphones accentuate different things. I'd suggest that when you go
back to the store, you do it at a time when they're not busy (take a
Tuesday morning off work if necessary) and set up several mics, try
each one with your voice, and - most important - RECORD your
experiments.

Bring in a blank CD. They should be able to set you up with something
that will allow you to make a recording there. Then, listen to the
recording at home. Don't try to make judgements only by listening to
yourself on headphones while you're singing in the store. There are
too many variables. You can't do anything to make the acoustical
environment like what you have at home, but if you keep the mics close
to the center of the room, you should at least reduce the effect of
reflections coming in from the back and sides (which is something you
can also control at home).

If you feel silly singing unaccompanied, bring in a portable music
player and headphones with something that you can sing to. And don't
forget to identify which mic you're singing into. But don't try to
record a mix or a pseudo Karaoke performance. Just record your voice.
....

Sue,

I've been listening to the RealAudio from your web site while reading
today's news. I fully realize that is a pale reflection of your sound
and your equipment. I'm just a consumer of music much more often than
a producer, but I have some thoughts I'd like to explore.

I started with the R&B, and "See About Me" was the only cut where I
felt I could really hear your voice. In the others I found myself
wishing for the "veil" to go away. Is there something about the
studio, the equipment, the mix, or the RealAudio processing that is
obviously different for "See About Me? The Pop tracks seem to be
recorded differently, with less of the "veiled" feeling, more high-end
clarity to your voice, but still a bit distant, harder to hear "you"
than in "See About Me".

I was hoping your "notes" would include more equipment and studio and
engineering info...

When I read the news thread about there sometimes not being enough
"space" in a particular mix for what is by itself a great-sounding
voice track, I thought of several of your tracks, but especially
"Sympatico". Maybe that is the intention, to have your voice blend in
as another instrument? Personally, I wanted to hear the voice, and
felt like I was straining to separate it from the blend.

As I said, maybe this is all easily explained by some setting in the
RealAudio processing. Or maybe it really does bear on your search for
different microphones. In any case, I think the advice to record your
mic tests and listen at home is very good. It seems the next step
would be to drop those tests into your instrumental mixes and see how
they fare. Maybe it is not the mic itself you're seeking, but its
relationship to the rest of your sound.

Loren

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Hal Laurent wrote:
"hank alrich" wrote in message

But versatile with those swithcable response curves.

Huh? My SM7 doesn't have any switches at all. Are you
thinking of the MD-421?

Yes it does. Take the screws off the back plate and you will find a bunch
of them.

Well darn, I learn something new everyday! I guess I should go download
the manual from the Shure site (I bought the mic used a long time ago).

Hal Laurent
Baltimore

In article yGqqd.478982$D%.203762@attbi_s51, jam12 wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
In article %Zlqd.157209$HA.136227@attbi_s01, jam12
wrote:
akg 3000

take a listen

No thank you. This has to be the most brittle-sounding microphone around.
I thought the 414B/ULS was screechy until I tried it.

maybe a good pre amp and a ear can help

Nope, it tends to get worse and worse the more transparent the preamp top end
is. I could understand how the exaggerated top end might help cut through a
preamp with a wooly sort of top end, but on something like the Millennia it
cuts like a knife.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

In article writes:

the AKG C414 "sound" is all over the map.

So it is, or was it a popular recording mic for vocals ??

I've been fooling around with this stuff for more than 30 years, back
when there were a relatively few mic choices. Back then the C414 and
its predecessors were pretty popular for vocals. I have one that I
often will try first on a lyrical female vocal and more often than not
it works out well enough so that we don't bother to try anything else.
But I can tell by listening to a singer that it won't work and I don't
bother to try.

Today it's hard to say what's popular for vocals, if I had to answer
that question, I'd say a U47 or maybe a Telefunken 251, but they're
only popular to the extend that you read about them in the projects
that make it to articles in the recording magazines. There are far
more people using Neumann TLM103s, or Rodes, or MXLs or Shures because
most people don't have $5,000 or more to put into a microphone.

the cheaper Neumann gave me
the truest representation of my voice. So instead of trying to find
something that "warms my voice up" your saying I sould do that with
maybe effects instead of ending up with a mic that would color my
voice in some way?

Well, it's great if you can just walk up to a microphone, sing, and it
sounds exactly the way you like it. But maybe your voice sounds
different on a different day, or you're doing a different kind of song
and you want your voice to be airy rather than come-here-dark-and-sexy.
If you have a mic that gives you an airy sound you like, and another
mic that gives you the sexy sound you like, and so on, not only will
you have a lot of mics but you'll need to decide which one to use.
This is fine if you have the time and the money, but when you're just
getting started putting money into this hole in the ocean, it's best
to start out with something that you can use for a variety of sounds
by helping it along in the control room rather than something that has
one great sound and you can't really get rid of it when you don't want
it.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Mike Rivers wrote:
In article writes:


If you were to come over to record at my place I'd want to try an
ElectroVoice RE-20 on you first, or a Shure SM7 or Stedman N90.


I called and talked to the salesman, and they don't carry any of these
guys. There is a smaller store that is more specialized, so I'm gonna
try over there and see if I can't track some of these down. Are they
older models?


With the exception of the Stedman, more like old chestnuts. They might
have a PL20 which is the same as an RE20 but sold to the live sound
market rather than the broadcast or studio market (different box). The
SM7 is pretty specialized, as is the Stedman so you're not likely to
find one of those easily.

Both of which are readily available (from stock) at broadcast supply houses, http://www.bswusa.com/ for example.

If you were to come over to record at my place I'd want to try an
ElectroVoice RE-20 on you first, or a Shure SM7 or Stedman N90. I think
you
might be surprised by one of those.

I called and talked to the salesman, and they don't carry any of these
guys. There is a smaller store that is more specialized, so I'm gonna
try over there and see if I can't track some of these down. Are they
older models?

I'm (pretty) sure there must be at least one dealer in Atlanta that must
stock RE-20's. Or you could call a couple local studios to find one that
has an RE-20 ( and hopefully other mics you are interested in ) and buy an
hour of time or so to try them out ( $15 to $80 in a studio is probably a
better investment than taking a few hours for free in Guitar Ceter etc )
Any one here on RAP in GA that can help out Sue?

The PL-20 is pretty much the same as the RE-20 and sometimes can be found
cheaper.


Also what Neumann model do you have, the TLM103? If so you should
compare it
to a Neumann TLM 193, which I think might be complementary on your
voice.
Also try a Soundelux U195 if you can.

I'm pretty sure it's the TLM103. I believe it's the lowest priced
Neumann. The TLM 193 is more expensive isn't it?

The list price of a TLM193 is something like $1200 ot $1400 but the two I
have I purchased used on Ebay for $650 and $750 at different times. They
are both in perfect shape and sound great. YMMV. Here's one on Ebay right
now. (I don't know the seller) :
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...5861 375&rd=1


And consider a CAD E300 or E350 ( may not handle really loud passages
well )

Don't have these guys either, but I'll put them on the list.

And FYI - the CAD E300 or E350 have been out of production for a while so
you'd need to find a used one.


and a BLUE Blueberry ( may have too much 'presence' for your voice )

I tried the BLUE, but it didn't sound very good with my voice. I think
I'm gonna try it again when I go back to pick up the 103 because
people keep recommending it.

Thanks again John,

You are welcome Sue.

John L Rice

In article writes:

Both of which are readily available (from stock) at broadcast supply houses,
http://www.bswusa.com/ for example.

But that's not a place Sue can go to try out the mics. She'd have to
buy them unheard, try them at home, and return them if she didn't like
them. That's a good way to do it for sure, but narrowing down the
choice at a shop is probably a better way to start.

I've lost track of what she has, what she's decided to keep, and what
she's decided to (or even can) return, so maybe she can do some home
comparisons.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

"Sue G. Wilkinson" wrote in message
om...

If you're looking for a warmer sound, see if you can find a used Beyer
M260
on ebay, or, yes, check out the new AKG C414B-ULS. For a brighter sound,
maybe the C414B-ULII might be worth looking at,

Oops -- correcting my own recommendation: the new microphones are the
C414B-XLS (flat) and C414B-XLII (bright). Nicer than their predecessors.

Also see if you can listen to the Neumann TLM-193. Less bright than the
TLM-103.

By the way, I liked your voice on the site; very mobile, esp. on the R&B
songs.

Thanks so much. And also thanks for taking the time to listen. I love
singing and writing that old school R&B stuff. Please check back
sometime!

Will do.

Peace,
Paul

(Mike Rivers) wrote in message news:znr1101651751k@trad...
In article writes:

The B.L.U.E. [Blueberry] was actually what everyone
was high on at the store and I also heard Sting uses one of the really
expensive ones with all the bells and whistles. Unfortunatley, it
didn't sound that good with my voice,

This is the most important thing. Voices are different, and different
microphones accentuate different things. I'd suggest that when you go
back to the store, you do it at a time when they're not busy (take a
Tuesday morning off work if necessary) and set up several mics, try
each one with your voice, and - most important - RECORD your
experiments.

Bring in a blank CD. They should be able to set you up with something
that will allow you to make a recording there. Then, listen to the
recording at home. Don't try to make judgements only by listening to
yourself on headphones while you're singing in the store. There are
too many variables. You can't do anything to make the acoustical
environment like what you have at home, but if you keep the mics close
to the center of the room, you should at least reduce the effect of
reflections coming in from the back and sides (which is something you
can also control at home).

If you feel silly singing unaccompanied, bring in a portable music
player and headphones with something that you can sing to. And don't
forget to identify which mic you're singing into. But don't try to
record a mix or a pseudo Karaoke performance. Just record your voice.

Try a few mics that are too expensive. If one doesn't sound as good to
you as something you can afford, it will make you feel better. And if
they all sound better than what you can afford, at least you'll have a
standard of comparison. And don't be afraid to try mics that don't
look big and bulky.

The interface between the microphone and preamp (or mixer, or whatever
you're using for an input device in your home recording setup) makes a
difference too, but just to give everything you try a fair chance, use
something lowish-middle-of-the-road for all the mics. The MARS music
stores used to have a mic demo room with all the mics connected to
Mackie mixers which were less than optimum for most mics, but at least
it was a constant. Something like that would be OK. Using the best mic
preamp in the shop, unless you were prepared to buy it, would be
unfair.

btw, are you familiar with the PreSonus Eureka preamp? I'm not at all
familiar with preamp, so I just went with what the salesman suggested.

Hey Mike,

Could you make some suggestions of good medium priced preamps? Maybe
your favorite. And thanks for the suggestions of testing mics. I went
through about 5 or 6 mics and pretty rapidly was able to tell what
worked and what didn't work. I'm just about to hook up the Rode K2
with the Eureka here at home. So I hope I don't blow anything up. I've
turned on the phantom power on my D1600. Is this correct?

Happy Holidays!
sgw

It's fairly new, and just hitting the magazine reviews this month.
Presonus usually does a pretty good job, so it's bound to be a fair
deal. Not exotic, but it's not likely to be a deterrent to making a
decent vocal recording. If that's what you have, then use that for
your test recordings. It has a lot of bells and whistles, too, so
bypass those to hear the basic sound of the mic.

Loren Amelang wrote in message . ..
On 28 Nov 2004 12:27:05 -0500, (Mike Rivers)
wrote:
...
This is the most important thing. Voices are different, and different
microphones accentuate different things. I'd suggest that when you go
back to the store, you do it at a time when they're not busy (take a
Tuesday morning off work if necessary) and set up several mics, try
each one with your voice, and - most important - RECORD your
experiments.

Bring in a blank CD. They should be able to set you up with something
that will allow you to make a recording there. Then, listen to the
recording at home. Don't try to make judgements only by listening to
yourself on headphones while you're singing in the store. There are
too many variables. You can't do anything to make the acoustical
environment like what you have at home, but if you keep the mics close
to the center of the room, you should at least reduce the effect of
reflections coming in from the back and sides (which is something you
can also control at home).

If you feel silly singing unaccompanied, bring in a portable music
player and headphones with something that you can sing to. And don't
forget to identify which mic you're singing into. But don't try to
record a mix or a pseudo Karaoke performance. Just record your voice.
...

Sue,

I've been listening to the RealAudio from your web site while reading
today's news. I fully realize that is a pale reflection of your sound
and your equipment. I'm just a consumer of music much more often than
a producer, but I have some thoughts I'd like to explore.

I started with the R&B, and "See About Me" was the only cut where I
felt I could really hear your voice. In the others I found myself
wishing for the "veil" to go away. Is there something about the
studio, the equipment, the mix, or the RealAudio processing that is
obviously different for "See About Me? The Pop tracks seem to be
recorded differently, with less of the "veiled" feeling, more high-end
clarity to your voice, but still a bit distant, harder to hear "you"
than in "See About Me".

I was hoping your "notes" would include more equipment and studio and
engineering info...

When I read the news thread about there sometimes not being enough
"space" in a particular mix for what is by itself a great-sounding
voice track, I thought of several of your tracks, but especially
"Sympatico". Maybe that is the intention, to have your voice blend in
as another instrument? Personally, I wanted to hear the voice, and
felt like I was straining to separate it from the blend.

As I said, maybe this is all easily explained by some setting in the
RealAudio processing. Or maybe it really does bear on your search for
different microphones. In any case, I think the advice to record your
mic tests and listen at home is very good. It seems the next step
would be to drop those tests into your instrumental mixes and see how
they fare. Maybe it is not the mic itself you're seeking, but its
relationship to the rest of your sound.

Loren

Hey Loren,

I totally agree with you! I recorded at Southern Tracks (Pearl Jam and
many others), and Doppler (Elton John and just about every new R&B act
out there) and it's still the same story.
But "See About Me" was recorded by some stoned out hippies in a little
basement studio with fleas (my legs were covered in bites when I
left!!) and it sounds up front and solid so go figure! I think they
just turned the vocal up REALLY loud because if you listen close it's
actually distorted in places. I also belt out the entire song which
makes the volumes easier to deal with.. I think it might be more of a
mix thing. I also think that my volumes so fluctuate that it freaks
engineers out...but you got me. It's always been a source of real
frustration for me. Any comments from engineers out there?

John L Rice wrote:

I'm (pretty) sure there must be at least one dealer in Atlanta that must
stock RE-20's. Or you could call a couple local studios to find one that
has an RE-20 ( and hopefully other mics you are interested in ) and buy an
hour of time or so to try them out ( $15 to $80 in a studio is probably a
better investment than taking a few hours for free in Guitar Ceter etc )
Any one here on RAP in GA that can help out Sue?

I don't offhand, but I bet if you call Joe over at WREK and ask for ten
minutes with an RE-20, they'll let you into the studios. What real audio
places are left in Atlanta now?

The PL-20 is pretty much the same as the RE-20 and sometimes can be found
cheaper.

It is the same, other than color, but it was sold through a different dealer
network. It's no longer sold, so it only turns up used. If you buy a really
ratty half-destroyed one, EV will rebuild them for a very minimal charge, too.
I really like EV.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Sue G. Wilkinson wrote:

Could you make some suggestions of good medium priced preamps?

Depending on your idea of medium pricing:

FMR RNP - Under $500 for two channel unit. Much better than good for the
money: www.fmraudio.com

Speck MIC Pre 5.0 - A little more money, under $900, with some
interesting features, and a fine sound: www.speck.com

Great River MP1-NV - More expensive, list $1395, but in the long run
perhaps worth it. This is top shelf stuff:
www.greatriverelectronics.com


I have used all of these and they are all good tools. My favorite
day-in/day-out mic preamp remains my Great River MP2-MH.

--
ha

In article writes:

Hey Mike,
Could you make some suggestions of good medium priced preamps? Maybe
your favorite.

I'm not really a preamp guy. The only outboard preamp I have is a
Great River and that's only because my name is Rivers and I got a
Great Deal on it. I just use the preamps on my Souncraft console.

I'm just about to hook up the Rode K2
with the Eureka here at home. So I hope I don't blow anything up. I've
turned on the phantom power on my D1600. Is this correct?

The D1600 is a recording workstation? If so, then no, that's not
correct. Turn on the phantom power on the Eureka, and connect the
Eureka output to a line input on the D1600. You won't do any harm,
unless you connect the Eureka output to a mic input with phantom power
on (which may damage the Eureka's output stage).

Hope it's not too late.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

IMHO the Studio Projects T3 should also be included in the shortlist.
Their website is www.studioprojectsusa.com

A certain soprano (aka Dolly Parton) sold millions of records at RCA
using an
Electro-Voice RE15. (the RE16 can be considered too) The RE15 has been
discontinued, and Dolly's is probably still inside a RCA vault g.

Elvis' main vocal mic at RCA was also the RE15 BTW.
Ebay is the easiest spot now to pick up a RE15 (also spelled RE-15).

But they're so cheap they're worth trying out sometime to add to
whatever
condenser(s) you select.

Another EV dynamic worth a shot is the 635a omni.

Chris