Hi,

I have a badly corroded mixing console panel I want to repaint and re
legend. It measures 63cm x 31cm. I know these are normally screen printed,
but does anyone know of any other processes of getting fine-ish print onto
metal that stands up to the normal mixing console wear and tear?
I was thinking along the lines of some sort of UV process akin to printing
PCB's, drawing the artwork in Photoshop and printing to transparency.

Any ideas greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Gareth.

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 10:35:13 +0000 (UTC), "Gareth Magennis"
wrote:

Hi,

I have a badly corroded mixing console panel I want to repaint and re
legend. It measures 63cm x 31cm. I know these are normally screen printed,
but does anyone know of any other processes of getting fine-ish print onto
metal that stands up to the normal mixing console wear and tear?
I was thinking along the lines of some sort of UV process akin to printing
PCB's, drawing the artwork in Photoshop and printing to transparency.

For a one-off panel, there are a couple of techniques that might work
for you.

1. Mechanical engrave & fill. The lettering is engraved into the metal
with a fine bit. Minimum line width is a determined by the smallest
bit that can be used. Not much choice of fonts.

2. Photo-engrave. The metal panel is coated with material similar to
PC etch resist, exposed to a 1:1 film sheet of the artwork, developed
and etched. Allows very high resolution and any text font you like.

Both of these techniques are usually enhanced with paint or anodyzing.
You can etch the legend in, then fill with a paint colour. You can
fill different legends with different colours. Because the paint is
recessed, it doesn't scrape off.

Mike T.

Gareth Magennis wrote:

I have a badly corroded mixing console panel I want to repaint and re
legend. It measures 63cm x 31cm. I know these are normally screen printed,
but does anyone know of any other processes of getting fine-ish print onto
metal that stands up to the normal mixing console wear and tear?
I was thinking along the lines of some sort of UV process akin to printing
PCB's, drawing the artwork in Photoshop and printing to transparency.

1. Mechanical engraving

2. Photoetching

3. The nifty new laser etching process.

Your local trophy shop may not be able to do something as large as a
console panel, but they probably will know who in your area has the
equipment to do so.

If the panel is aluminum, you can get it stripped, polished, and then
anodized black. If the corrosion hasn't etched too much of the metal away,
you can then get photoetching or laser etching through the anodizing layer
and get something that looks very Manley-like.

You could also look at expresspcb.com. They have a custom panel thing going
now as well.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

In article writes:

For a one-off panel, there are a couple of techniques that might work
for you.

1. Mechanical engrave & fill.

2. Photo-engrave.

I suspect that the original poster has a situation like I do, and
probably a lot of people who have older equipment that gets handled a
lot. Many of the legends on my Soundcraft console are worn off. It's
quite impractical to remove the front panel from each worn module (at
least they're all on modules, which I can't say for my Mackie mixer)
and have them engraved.

I tried using some dry transfer lettering covered over with clear
tape, but that didn't look very good. I've looked into those Brother
(and the like) label makers that print on laminated tape, but none of
them have small and delicate enough fonts to fit in the tight space.

A good memory helps.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

"Mike Rivers" wrote:

I suspect that the original poster has a situation like I do, and
probably a lot of people who have older equipment that gets handled a
lot. Many of the legends on my Soundcraft console are worn off. It's
quite impractical to remove the front panel from each worn module (at
least they're all on modules, which I can't say for my Mackie mixer)
and have them engraved.

Awwww... it's not that big of a deal. If it's like a 200B, you just unscrew
the module from the frame, unhook the ribbon connectors, take the knobs off,
and then remove the nuts that hold the pots in. The PCB will slide right
out. The fader is attached by way of a connector, so you then unhook that,
and there you are. Takes about a minute.

-jw

In article writes:

Awwww... it's not that big of a deal. If it's like a 200B, you just unscrew
the module from the frame, unhook the ribbon connectors, take the knobs off,
and then remove the nuts that hold the pots in. The PCB will slide right
out. The fader is attached by way of a connector, so you then unhook that,
and there you are. Takes about a minute.

Then do that 23 more times. g Then you take the best one, lay it on
the scanner and create an image. Buy a copy of Photoshop, install it,
import the image of the panel, replace all the ragged text with clean
text, touch up all the other artwork, and generate something that an
engraver or etcher can use. Maybe a Gerber file? Are they still using
those?

Then strip off all the paint, engrave, paint, and fill. Reassemble.

I'll bet that if you did the artwork yourself, it wouldn't cost you
but about $50 per channel.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

This is what I've done and it works well, though my panel is a centre
section with 8 groups and a 12 x 6 matrix.so that's a lot of time in
Photoshop and reassembling A4 scans. (Desk is DDA CS8)

I'm getting quotes from sprayers/screen printers but I expect it's going to
be expensive. Thing is, and this explains my post, I'm sure years ago I saw
and article or advert where you sprayed on a paint then exposed it with UV
and mask or some similar photo process. It was a front panel legending
affair. Maybe it wasn't very good or I was dreaming. Couldn't find
anything in Google.


Thanks for the inputs,

Gareth.


.. g Then you take the best one, lay it on
the scanner and create an image. Buy a copy of Photoshop, install it,
import the image of the panel, replace all the ragged text with clean
text, touch up all the other artwork, and generate something that an
engraver or etcher can use. Maybe a Gerber file? Are they still using
those?

Then strip off all the paint, engrave, paint, and fill. Reassemble.

I'll bet that if you did the artwork yourself, it wouldn't cost you
but about $50 per channel.

In article writes:

Thing is, and this explains my post, I'm sure years ago I saw
and article or advert where you sprayed on a paint then exposed it with UV
and mask or some similar photo process. It was a front panel legending
affair. Maybe it wasn't very good or I was dreaming. Couldn't find
anything in Google.

I made some small tags with a kit from Kepco (which no longer exists,
at least under that name) which included some photo-sensitized black
anodized aluminum sheet. You exposed the areas that you wanted to
mask, then etched the anodizing off with a nasty solution that came in
the kit. Finally, you stripped off the mask and you were done. It
worked pretty well. I seem to recall that they sold the photosensitive
masking spray in an aerosol can so you could use it on a custom panel.

I have no idea if it's still available, but if you haven't been
searching for "photo sensitive resist" give that a try.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

"Mike Rivers" wrote:

writes:

Awwww... it's not that big of a deal. If it's like a 200B, you just
unscrew
the module from the frame, unhook the ribbon connectors, take the knobs
off,
and then remove the nuts that hold the pots in. The PCB will slide right
out. The fader is attached by way of a connector, so you then unhook
that,
and there you are. Takes about a minute.

Then do that 23 more times. g Then you take the best one, lay it on
the scanner and create an image. Buy a copy of Photoshop, install it,
import the image of the panel, replace all the ragged text with clean
text, touch up all the other artwork, and generate something that an
engraver or etcher can use. Maybe a Gerber file? Are they still using
those?

Then strip off all the paint, engrave, paint, and fill. Reassemble.

I'll bet that if you did the artwork yourself, it wouldn't cost you
but about $50 per channel.

Alright. Point taken. But you made it sound like the obstacle was the
impracticality of removing the panels, that's all. All my point was that if
you *needed* it to happen (and the board was actually worth more than $50 a
channel) then pulling the panels is sort of the least of it.

-jw

"Gareth Magennis" wrote in message ...
This is what I've done and it works well, though my panel is a centre
section with 8 groups and a 12 x 6 matrix.so that's a lot of time in
Photoshop and reassembling A4 scans. (Desk is DDA CS8)

Snipity ippity

What about rub-down letters and then covering them with clear nail
polish? If you ask at graphics photography places you can usually get
custom-made rub-down sheets for not too much cost. You can cram alot
of rub down in a letter sized sheet.

in fact a quick google produces the following:

http://www.letraset.com/us/info/prod...y-Transfer.asp

letraset offer the service online and you upload your document and get
it back in the mail!

Thanks Mike.


The problem I face is that because the rest of the desk is screen printed, I
have to print the centre section the same or it's just going to look odd and
no longer a DDA. This rules out any kind of etching process, interesting
though it is.
Also any kind of photoresist means I can certainly spray through the exposed
bits to paint the legend, but at the same time the rest of the photoresist
is covered in paint. So how do you then remove the photoresist without
removing the legend? (assuming the paint seals in the photoresist)

In my Googling I have found paints that can be almost instantly "cured" with
UV. This looks interestimg but it's not designed so that you can easily
remove the uncured stuff - it's for very rapid drying and avoiding oven
baking. Could be worth messing with though.


Cheers,

Gareth.





Gareth.




"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1097674421k@trad...

In article
writes:

Thing is, and this explains my post, I'm sure years ago I saw
and article or advert where you sprayed on a paint then exposed it with
UV
and mask or some similar photo process. It was a front panel legending
affair. Maybe it wasn't very good or I was dreaming. Couldn't find
anything in Google.

I made some small tags with a kit from Kepco (which no longer exists,
at least under that name) which included some photo-sensitized black
anodized aluminum sheet. You exposed the areas that you wanted to
mask, then etched the anodizing off with a nasty solution that came in
the kit. Finally, you stripped off the mask and you were done. It
worked pretty well. I seem to recall that they sold the photosensitive
masking spray in an aerosol can so you could use it on a custom panel.

I have no idea if it's still available, but if you haven't been
searching for "photo sensitive resist" give that a try.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article writes:

letraset offer the service online and you upload your document and get
it back in the mail!

That's really cool. I've done this one letter at a time, and it gets
old very quickly. Also, you end up with a lot of wasted sheets because
you run out of some letters or numbers before others.

I looked on the web site for how to do it, and unfortunately I'm not smart
enough, nor do I have the appropriate software. It would be nice if they
took a Word file or a PDF, but apparently they only want graphics. I can
use PowerPoint to save a page of text as a JPG, but I have no idea what
size it will come out when it's turned into a dry transfer sheet. If I want
10 point type, I'd rather just set Word to 10 point and type away.

Why do they have to make it so attractive, and then so difficult for
novices to use? I guess it's sort of like recording, huh?


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

there was a trick someone mentioned on alt.bin.pic.radio about printing what
you want transferred onto your channel onto some photographic paper.
then you paint it over with Minwax C varnish. and you paint a light coat
onto the channel. a second coat is applied to the channel and then you put
the picture onto the channel and let it dry.
then when it is dry you can wash off the paper and the picture will remain.
I have only used this method for guitar pedals because it works well with
color pictures too.

Doug


"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1097598392k@trad...

In article
writes:

For a one-off panel, there are a couple of techniques that might work
for you.

1. Mechanical engrave & fill.

2. Photo-engrave.

I suspect that the original poster has a situation like I do, and
probably a lot of people who have older equipment that gets handled a
lot. Many of the legends on my Soundcraft console are worn off. It's
quite impractical to remove the front panel from each worn module (at
least they're all on modules, which I can't say for my Mackie mixer)
and have them engraved.

I tried using some dry transfer lettering covered over with clear
tape, but that didn't look very good. I've looked into those Brother
(and the like) label makers that print on laminated tape, but none of
them have small and delicate enough fonts to fit in the tight space.

A good memory helps.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

(Mike Rivers) wrote in message news:znr1097690458k@trad...
In article writes:



Why do they have to make it so attractive, and then so difficult for
novices to use? I guess it's sort of like recording, huh?


Mike, they want graphics programs primary because its a service for
graphic designers. You can download any number of freeware programs to
generate a jpg or tiff or .eps file. You could even do it with the
image editor that comes with XP. A rough guidline would be to ensure
it was at least a 300 dpi image.

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1097620113k@trad...

In article
writes:

Awwww... it's not that big of a deal. If it's like a 200B, you just
unscrew
the module from the frame, unhook the ribbon connectors, take the knobs
off,
and then remove the nuts that hold the pots in. The PCB will slide right
out. The fader is attached by way of a connector, so you then unhook
that,
and there you are. Takes about a minute.

Then do that 23 more times. g Then you take the best one, lay it on
the scanner and create an image. Buy a copy of Photoshop, install it,
import the image of the panel, replace all the ragged text with clean
text, touch up all the other artwork, and generate something that an
engraver or etcher can use. Maybe a Gerber file? Are they still using
those?

Then strip off all the paint, engrave, paint, and fill. Reassemble.

And then after you've reassembled all the modules and put them back in the
console, you discover that most of the knobs are now scratching the panel.

Happened to me with my Soundcraft 600, never found the remedy and eventually
sold the console.

Predrag

Gareth Magennis wrote:

Hi,

I have a badly corroded mixing console panel I want to repaint and re
legend. It measures 63cm x 31cm. I know these are normally screen printed,
but does anyone know of any other processes of getting fine-ish print onto
metal that stands up to the normal mixing console wear and tear?
I was thinking along the lines of some sort of UV process akin to printing
PCB's, drawing the artwork in Photoshop and printing to transparency.

Any ideas greatly appreciated.

For test fixtures I've been known to generate artwork on the PC using a suitable
application and then reverse print onto clear polyester film using a laser
printer ( so that the toner is 'under' the film and protected from wear and
tear ).

You can then attach the film to the panel using any adhesive method you care to
choose.

For long term durability - engraving takes some beating.

I've even applied Letraset ( dry print ) directly to panels and then spray
varnished over the top for protection - works ok.

All depends on the quality of finish you're looking for.


Graahm