I just bought the VPI 16.5 cleaner ($429 at Red Trumpet w/free shipping) and
was hoping someone can help.

I've read so many great reviews about this product and have to admit I feel a
bit let down with the results I've experienced so far.

It is easy to use and the records I've cleaned so far LOOK much better, but I
honestly didn't notice much of a reduction in surface noise on most of the LPs
I cleaned.

My test LPs ranged from hard rock to classical, and I was expecting to hear a
dramatic difference on the classical records. I tried records that looked bad
and others that appeared to be in great shape before cleaning, and still hear
clicks, pops, and background noise.

I tried both the included VPI cleaner and the RRL fluid they threw in as a
bonus.

I'm not an audio expert by any means and was wondering if maybe my
cartridge/stylus may be the culprit?

I have a 20-year old Sansui turntable that WAS decent at the time, but hasn't
seen a lot of use in recent years. I'm pretty sure the cartridge has been
replaced at least once over that time, and I did clean it.

Any help would be appreciated - thanks!

From: (G0LDENLVR)
Date: 10/19/2004 7:56 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

I just bought the VPI 16.5 cleaner ($429 at Red Trumpet w/free shipping) and
was hoping someone can help.

I've read so many great reviews about this product and have to admit I feel a
bit let down with the results I've experienced so far.

It is easy to use and the records I've cleaned so far LOOK much better, but I
honestly didn't notice much of a reduction in surface noise on most of the
LPs
I cleaned.

My test LPs ranged from hard rock to classical, and I was expecting to hear a
dramatic difference on the classical records. I tried records that looked
bad
and others that appeared to be in great shape before cleaning, and still hear
clicks, pops, and background noise.

I tried both the included VPI cleaner and the RRL fluid they threw in as a
bonus.

I'm not an audio expert by any means and was wondering if maybe my
cartridge/stylus may be the culprit?

Yes it might be. Mistracking can sound like severe surface noise. Unfortunately
if this is the case your records are damaged.

I have a 20-year old Sansui turntable that WAS decent at the time, but hasn't
seen a lot of use in recent years. I'm pretty sure the cartridge has been
replaced at least once over that time, and I did clean it.

Any help would be appreciated - thanks!

G0LDENLVR wrote:

I just bought the VPI 16.5 cleaner ($429 at Red Trumpet w/free shipping) and
was hoping someone can help.

I've read so many great reviews about this product and have to admit I feel a
bit let down with the results I've experienced so far.

I'm not an audio expert by any means and was wondering if maybe my
cartridge/stylus may be the culprit?

I have a 20-year old Sansui turntable that WAS decent at the time, but hasn't
seen a lot of use in recent years. I'm pretty sure the cartridge has been
replaced at least once over that time, and I did clean it.

Any help would be appreciated - thanks!

A new turntable definitely is in order.

Have a look at this article for all the record-cleaning tips you'll ever need:
http://www.musicangle.com/feat.php?id=54


GeoSynch

gjoldenlvr wrote:


I just bought the VPI 16.5 cleaner ($429 at Red Trumpet w/free shipping) and
was hoping someone can help.

I've read so many great reviews about this product and have to admit I feel a
bit let down with the results I've experienced so far.

It is easy to use and the records I've cleaned so far LOOK much better, but I
honestly didn't notice much of a reduction in surface noise on most of the
LPs
I cleaned.

My test LPs ranged from hard rock to classical, and I was expecting to hear a
dramatic difference on the classical records. I tried records that looked
bad
and others that appeared to be in great shape before cleaning, and still hear
clicks, pops, and background noise.

I tried both the included VPI cleaner and the RRL fluid they threw in as a
bonus.

I'm not an audio expert by any means and was wondering if maybe my
cartridge/stylus may be the culprit?

I have a 20-year old Sansui turntable that WAS decent at the time, but hasn't
seen a lot of use in recent years. I'm pretty sure the cartridge has been
replaced at least once over that time, and I did clean it.

Any help would be appreciated - thanks!








As the other posters have mentioned, cartridge mistracking, an antiquated
turntable with a probably poorly set up tonearm, and perhaps a worn out stylus
all can contribute to the kinds of record surface noise you are describing.

If at all possible, I'd also recommend you consider getting a more modern
turntable, preferably belt-drive. As you may know, VPI makes some excellent
turntables, as do manufacturers such as Rega, Project and Music Hall. My
personal choice would be a VPI, since they are built like tanks, are easy to
set up, and have terrific customer support from the manufacturer who is based
in New Jersey. If in good condition, even a used VPI from eBay or Audiogon may
be a very good buy. For a cartridge, especially with a VPI turntable, I'd
recommend a Grado. (These come in a very large variety of models at price
points ranging from about $ 40.00 to $ 2500.00 and many pts. in between).

FWIW, I have used a VPI 16.5 machine for over 10 years, and have had excellent
results with it. However, I use it in conjunction with the Disc Doctor brushes
and liquid as described in the link referenced by GeoSynch and described by
Michael Fremer. IME, the cleaning fluid can make a huge difference, and
compared to others I have tried in the past (e.g. VPI's own fluid, Torumat,
etc.). the Disc Doctor cleaning fluid is significantly more effective. Also, I
find the DD brushes - when used as directed - are much more effective than the
brush supplied with the VPI machine. You can find out more about the combined
use of a VPI machine and the DD system at:

www.discdoc.com

Good luck.






P.S. The DD stylus cleaner is also an effective product IME, or as an
alternative, you might want to consider a bottle of LAST stylus cleaner (both
are available from most dealers). One bottle of either will last you a very
long time.



Bruce J. Richman

"G0LDENLVR" wrote in message
...
I just bought the VPI 16.5 cleaner ($429 at Red Trumpet w/free shipping)
and
was hoping someone can help.

I've read so many great reviews about this product and have to admit I
feel a
bit let down with the results I've experienced so far.

It is easy to use and the records I've cleaned so far LOOK much better,
but I
honestly didn't notice much of a reduction in surface noise on most of the
LPs
I cleaned.

My test LPs ranged from hard rock to classical, and I was expecting to
hear a
dramatic difference on the classical records. I tried records that looked
bad
and others that appeared to be in great shape before cleaning, and still
hear
clicks, pops, and background noise.

I tried both the included VPI cleaner and the RRL fluid they threw in as a
bonus.

I'm not an audio expert by any means and was wondering if maybe my
cartridge/stylus may be the culprit?

I have a 20-year old Sansui turntable that WAS decent at the time, but
hasn't
seen a lot of use in recent years. I'm pretty sure the cartridge has been
replaced at least once over that time, and I did clean it.

Any help would be appreciated - thanks!

I consider my VPI cleaner one of my best sounding
pieces of equipment! I think that your records
may be ruined from having been played
on mistracking machine with a worn stylus.
I would suggest a new turntable and cartridge.
There is plenty to choose from.

http://www.needledoctor.com/

(G0LDENLVR) wrote in message ...
I just bought the VPI 16.5 cleaner ($429 at Red Trumpet w/free shipping) and
was hoping someone can help.

I've read so many great reviews about this product and have to admit I feel a
bit let down with the results I've experienced so far.

It is easy to use and the records I've cleaned so far LOOK much better, but I
honestly didn't notice much of a reduction in surface noise on most of the LPs
I cleaned.

I'm not surprised. Elaborate record cleaners are mostly hype, IMHO.
Even if you can remove deeply embeded dirt particles they can leave
tiny dimples in the groove that result in continued noise. I get what
needs to be done with a Diskwasher.

I'm not an audio expert by any means and was wondering if maybe my
cartridge/stylus may be the culprit?

Contrary to what others have been saying: Surface noise, as opposed to
distortion is not a function of the cartridge or mistracking. A
tick/pop is going to be there regardless. A line-contact stylus will
track a different part of the groove than a conventional elliptical
stylus and may result in a little less noise, but it will still hit
the major defects. A line contact stylus will however reduce tracing
distortion due to record wear. I'm very happy with my Audio-Technica
AT-440ML, a reasonably priced cartridge with a line-contact stylus.

The way to go is transfer your records to the digital domain and
remove the ticks/pops with software, then burn CD's.

Tim

From: (Tim Brown)
Date: 10/20/2004 11:40 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

(G0LDENLVR) wrote in message
...
I just bought the VPI 16.5 cleaner ($429 at Red Trumpet w/free shipping)
and
was hoping someone can help.

I've read so many great reviews about this product and have to admit I feel
a
bit let down with the results I've experienced so far.

It is easy to use and the records I've cleaned so far LOOK much better, but
I
honestly didn't notice much of a reduction in surface noise on most of the
LPs
I cleaned.

I'm not surprised. Elaborate record cleaners are mostly hype, IMHO.

Balony. The benefits of clean records over dirty ones are a matter of fact.


Even if you can remove deeply embeded dirt particles they can leave
tiny dimples in the groove that result in continued noise.

Many things "can" happen in this world, that does not make it the "normal"
thing to happen. Normally this will not happen and the benefit will be
noticable.

I get what
needs to be done with a Diskwasher.

How do you know?



I'm not an audio expert by any means and was wondering if maybe my
cartridge/stylus may be the culprit?

Contrary to what others have been saying: Surface noise, as opposed to
distortion is not a function of the cartridge or mistracking.

This is an odd thing to say, Surface noise is a distortion. It has been said
that mistracking sounds a lot like a dirty record. No one has said that surface
noise is a "function" of mistracking. Your assertion is both incorrect and a
strawman.



A
tick/pop is going to be there regardless.

Wrong. It depends on the cause of that tick or pop.

A line-contact stylus will
track a different part of the groove than a conventional elliptical
stylus and may result in a little less noise, but it will still hit
the major defects.

Maybe it will and maybe it won't. Either way it is irrelevant to the benefits
of a well cleaned record over one that is not cleaned. It is also irrelevant to
the problem this guy most likely faces, a mistracking cartridge.


A line contact stylus will however reduce tracing
distortion due to record wear. I'm very happy with my Audio-Technica
AT-440ML, a reasonably priced cartridge with a line-contact stylus.

The way to go is transfer your records to the digital domain and
remove the ticks/pops with software, then burn CD's.

If you are seeking the easiest solution and sound quality is not an issue over
and above surface noise. However if over all performance is an issue and the
well being of your records is an issue you need a better tracking
turntable/arm/ cartridge.

(S888Wheel) wrote in message ...
From: (Tim Brown)
Date: 10/20/2004 11:40 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

(G0LDENLVR) wrote in message
...
I just bought the VPI 16.5 cleaner ($429 at Red Trumpet w/free shipping)
and
was hoping someone can help.

I've read so many great reviews about this product and have to admit I feel
a
bit let down with the results I've experienced so far.

It is easy to use and the records I've cleaned so far LOOK much better, but
I
honestly didn't notice much of a reduction in surface noise on most of the
LPs
I cleaned.

I'm not surprised. Elaborate record cleaners are mostly hype, IMHO.

Balony. The benefits of clean records over dirty ones are a matter of fact.

You spin like a republican. I didn't say there's no benefit to clean
records. I said you don't need to buy an expensive record cleaner to
get a record clean.



Even if you can remove deeply embeded dirt particles they can leave
tiny dimples in the groove that result in continued noise.

Many things "can" happen in this world, that does not make it the "normal"
thing to happen.

Yeah... and so?


I get what
needs to be done with a Diskwasher.

How do you know?

By my clean records. I also use cotton pads and various cleaning
fluids on tough cases.

I'm not an audio expert by any means and was wondering if maybe my
cartridge/stylus may be the culprit?

Contrary to what others have been saying: Surface noise, as opposed to
distortion is not a function of the cartridge or mistracking.

This is an odd thing to say, Surface noise is a distortion.

You have a strange definition of distortion. Surface noise is most
prominent in quiet passages, where mistracking is minimal.

It has been said
that mistracking sounds a lot like a dirty record.

Anyone with nominal training can tell mistracking from surface noise.

No one has said that surface
noise is a "function" of mistracking.

Look at the other posts. It was implied.

Your assertion is both incorrect and a
strawman.

You don't know the meaning of "strawman". It's just a word you
denizens of r.a.o. like to use.

TB

From: (Tim Brown)
Date: 10/22/2004 8:01 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

(S888Wheel) wrote in message
...
From: (Tim Brown)
Date: 10/20/2004 11:40 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

(G0LDENLVR) wrote in message
...
I just bought the VPI 16.5 cleaner ($429 at Red Trumpet w/free shipping)
and
was hoping someone can help.

I've read so many great reviews about this product and have to admit I
feel
a
bit let down with the results I've experienced so far.

It is easy to use and the records I've cleaned so far LOOK much better,
but
I
honestly didn't notice much of a reduction in surface noise on most of
the
LPs
I cleaned.

I'm not surprised. Elaborate record cleaners are mostly hype, IMHO.

Balony. The benefits of clean records over dirty ones are a matter of fact.

You spin like a republican. I didn't say there's no benefit to clean
records. I said you don't need to buy an expensive record cleaner to
get a record clean.

No, you said "Elaborate record cleaners are mostly hype, IMHO." Since the
whole point of these record cleaners is to clean the record as best as possible
your claim infers that the benefit of cleaning records as best as possible is a
matter of hype. That is plainly wrong. The benefits are a matter of fact not
hype.





Even if you can remove deeply embeded dirt particles they can leave
tiny dimples in the groove that result in continued noise.

Many things "can" happen in this world, that does not make it the "normal"
thing to happen.

Yeah... and so?

So it is misleading to raise it as an issue without this perspective.




I get what
needs to be done with a Diskwasher.

How do you know?

By my clean records. I also use cotton pads and various cleaning
fluids on tough cases.

How do you know they cannot be cleaner if you used one of these "hyped"
machines?




I'm not an audio expert by any means and was wondering if maybe my
cartridge/stylus may be the culprit?

Contrary to what others have been saying: Surface noise, as opposed to
distortion is not a function of the cartridge or mistracking.

This is an odd thing to say, Surface noise is a distortion.

You have a strange definition of distortion.

Main Entry: dis·tor·tion
Pronunciation: di-'stor-sh&n
Function: noun
Date: 1581
1 : the act of distorting
2 : the quality or state of being distorted : a product of distorting: as a : a
lack of proportionality in an image resulting from defects in the optical
system b : falsified reproduction of an audio or video signal caused by change
in the wave form of the original signal


Surface noise is most
prominent in quiet passages, where mistracking is minimal.

So? It is still distortion. See above dictionary definition.



It has been said
that mistracking sounds a lot like a dirty record.

Anyone with nominal training can tell mistracking from surface noise.

Anyone with some experience can tell the difference between a violin and a
viola but your point and my point are irrelevant. The original poster said the
following "I'm not an audio expert by any means and was wondering if maybe my
cartridge/stylus may be the culprit?" So do you see the irrelevence of your
point? Do you get the fact that this fellow has no such training? Do you fail
to hear the similarities of the sound of dirty records and damaged records via
mistracking?



No one has said that surface
noise is a "function" of mistracking.

Look at the other posts. It was implied.

I looked. It wasn't implied either. It was offered as an alternative
explination for the noise the original poster was hearing. Nothing more.



Your assertion is both incorrect and a
strawman.

You don't know the meaning of "strawman". It's just a word you
denizens of r.a.o. like to use.

Wrong again.