[mcp6453[_2_]]

When I got up this morning, my M-Audio Audiophile 2496 sound card was doing some
funky stuff, including looping the audio inputs back to the outputs. Rebooting
the computer was no use, so I shut the computer down to make sure that power was
totally removed from the card in case it needed to reset.

After the computer shut down, the card went into perpetual motion. It was
farting through the external speakers every second. It sounded as if the noise
was diminishing with time, but it was going on for at least 5 minutes when I
restarted the computer to see if the problem with the card cleared.

It seems to have cleared, but I suspect a pending failure on this card. So I
went to the M-Audio website to get their tech support phone number. It turns out
that you cannot call them for tech support unless it is within 30 days of
purchase (it's not), or unless you pay:

"Calls are charged at $2.50 per minute; $35 maximum per session. Payment can be
made via VISA, MasterCard, or Discover."

Yeah, like I'm going to pay $2.50 per minute for tech support for a defective
card. Needless to say, I done with M-Audio. (Want to buy a couple of Sputniks?)
I have no interest in companies that hold their customers hostage for tech
support or force you to deal with idiots on their company forums.

I can probably return the card for a refund, which I may do. That puts me in the
market for another decent PCI card in the $100 range. Suggestions?

[Mike Rivers]

On 10/25/2010 9:51 AM, mcp6453 wrote:
When I got up this morning, my M-Audio Audiophile 2496 sound card was doing some
funky stuff, including looping the audio inputs back to the outputs. Rebooting
the computer was no use, so I shut the computer down to make sure that power was
totally removed from the card in case it needed to reset.

After the computer shut down, the card went into perpetual motion. It was
farting through the external speakers every second. It sounded as if the noise
was diminishing with time, but it was going on for at least 5 minutes when I
restarted the computer to see if the problem with the card cleared.

It seems to have cleared, but I suspect a pending failure on this card. So I
went to the M-Audio website to get their tech support phone number. It turns out
that you cannot call them for tech support unless it is within 30 days of
purchase (it's not), or unless you pay:

It sound to me like it might be a computer problem, and not
necessarily a hardware problem, but a setup problem.
Everyone pleads innocent on this, but have you installed any
software that has even the tiniest chance of mucking with
the computer's audio setup? Sometimes the most innocent of
software can "take over" and change the computer's audio
routing. You may have a feedback loop that you're not aware of.

M-Audio has always been very good with tech support, but now
that they're an Avid company, they might be treating their
low end customers like they treat the Pro Tools HD
customers. Do some more troubleshooting. Disconnect whatever
you have connected to the input to the sound card and listen
for the noise.

You might try e-mail for tech support, but most companies
these days (and the bigger ones are the worst about it)
often take several days, or even more than a week to
respond. They're just way understaffed and way oversold. If
your dealer can help you by offering to exchange the card,
that's probably the best bet. The Audiophile is a very good
card, about as good as they get for the price, so try to
stick with it if you can.


--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

[Mark]

On Oct 25, 9:51*am, mcp6453 wrote:
When I got up this morning, my M-Audio Audiophile 2496 sound card was doing some
funky stuff,.....

could be the first line to a blues song...

Mark

[Danny T]

On Oct 25, 8:51*am, mcp6453 wrote:
When I got up this morning, my M-Audio Audiophile 2496 sound card was doing some
funky stuff, including looping the audio inputs back to the outputs. Rebooting
the computer was no use, so I shut the computer down to make sure that power was
totally removed from the card in case it needed to reset.

After the computer shut down, the card went into perpetual motion. It was
farting through the external speakers every second. It sounded as if the noise
was diminishing with time, but it was going on for at least 5 minutes when I
restarted the computer to see if the problem with the card cleared.

It seems to have cleared, but I suspect a pending failure on this card. So I
went to the M-Audio website to get their tech support phone number. It turns out
that you cannot call them for tech support unless it is within 30 days of
purchase (it's not), or unless you pay:

"Calls are charged at $2.50 per minute; $35 maximum per session. Payment can be
made via VISA, MasterCard, or Discover."

Yeah, like I'm going to pay $2.50 per minute for tech support for a defective
card. Needless to say, I done with M-Audio. (Want to buy a couple of Sputniks?)
I have no interest in companies that hold their customers hostage for tech
support or force you to deal with idiots on their company forums.

I can probably return the card for a refund, which I may do. That puts me in the
market for another decent PCI card in the $100 range. Suggestions?

Long ago I had maudio and thought they had great support. Not long ago
I ran into your same issue with another product of theirs. I no longer
buy m-audio either!

[Jay Ts[_2_]]

Danny T wrote:
mcp6453 wrote:
When I got up this morning, my M-Audio Audiophile 2496 sound card was
doing some funky stuff,
[snipped]
I can probably return the card for a refund, which I may do. That puts
me in the market for another decent PCI card in the $100 range.
Suggestions?

Long ago I had maudio and thought they had great support. Not long ago I
ran into your same issue with another product of theirs. I no longer buy
m-audio either!

First I want to say thanks for both of you for posting about this.
I've been happily using M-Audio products since they were Midiman,
and have never had serious problems with them.

However, in recent years I've been getting the feeling they
have been slipping, and aside from learning through a
discussion here that my Audiophile 2496 (arguably) has a design
problem, I've been looking around for a better card to see if
I can find one with better performance and will work in my next
computer, which may not have PCI slots.

I don't have any experience with this company at all, but one
of the things I found doing "Internet research" was the ESI
"Juli@" [sic.] cards. The specs look good, and I found positive
comments. Any one here know about this product, and the company?
I'm especially interested in driver development.

Now about that Audiophile 2496's "funky" behavior, shut down
your computer, turn the power switch OFF or unplug it, wait
about 30 seconds, then carefully remove the card, plug it
in again, and MAKE SURE IT IS PLUGGED IN CORRECTLY. Just a hunch,
but this is part of basic troubleshooting procedure, and who knows,
maybe that is the source of the problem.

In any case, good luck with it.

Jay Ts

[Mike Rivers]

On 10/25/2010 6:57 PM, Jay Ts wrote:

aside from learning through a
discussion here that my Audiophile 2496 (arguably) has a design
problem,

On the Internet, anything can have a design problem. What
problem do you think it has, and more importantly, how do
you think it affects you? It's been around for a mighty long
time to have a design problem that needs to be address.

I've been looking around for a better card to see if
I can find one with better performance and will work in my next
computer, which may not have PCI slots.

It's really a sad situation. You'll probably have to look at
USB or Firewire cards, and neither are really very good for
handling audio data. Perhaps you should think about how you
can keep your present computer running for another ten years.

I don't have any experience with this company at all, but one
of the things I found doing "Internet research" was the ESI
"Juli@" [sic.] cards. The specs look good, and I found positive
comments. Any one here know about this product, and the company?
I'm especially interested in driver development.

It's a big company that has very little market penetration.
Nobody knows anything bad about them, because nobody knows
much about them. And NOBODY outside of the very inner circle
knows anything about driver development. I think that Lynx
knows what they're doing but I don't know about anyone else.
And all of this Firewire stuff seems to be
hardware-dependent. Some things work fine with one chipset
on the computer end and not with another, and there's very
little that's universally compatible or incompatible. In
other words, you don't know until you try, and if it doesn't
work, you'll blame "the driver," which won't get fixed.

It's a jungle out there. Better start thinking about analog
tape if you want to get any useful work done.

--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

[hank alrich]

Mike Rivers wrote:

On 10/25/2010 6:57 PM, Jay Ts wrote:

aside from learning through a
discussion here that my Audiophile 2496 (arguably) has a design
problem,

On the Internet, anything can have a design problem. What
problem do you think it has, and more importantly, how do
you think it affects you? It's been around for a mighty long
time to have a design problem that needs to be address.

I've been looking around for a better card to see if
I can find one with better performance and will work in my next
computer, which may not have PCI slots.

It's really a sad situation. You'll probably have to look at
USB or Firewire cards, and neither are really very good for
handling audio data. Perhaps you should think about how you
can keep your present computer running for another ten years.

I don't have any experience with this company at all, but one
of the things I found doing "Internet research" was the ESI
"Juli@" [sic.] cards. The specs look good, and I found positive
comments. Any one here know about this product, and the company?
I'm especially interested in driver development.

It's a big company that has very little market penetration.
Nobody knows anything bad about them, because nobody knows
much about them. And NOBODY outside of the very inner circle
knows anything about driver development. I think that Lynx
knows what they're doing but I don't know about anyone else.
And all of this Firewire stuff seems to be
hardware-dependent. Some things work fine with one chipset
on the computer end and not with another, and there's very
little that's universally compatible or incompatible. In
other words, you don't know until you try, and if it doesn't
work, you'll blame "the driver," which won't get fixed.

It's a jungle out there. Better start thinking about analog
tape if you want to get any useful work done.

Or get a Mac and a Metric Halo interface. (Not aiming to start a
platform discussion.) That combo works pretty well. MH isn't cheap, but
the performance is, IMO, extraordinarily good for what it costs.

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://armadillomusicproductions.com/who'slistening.html
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShai...withDougHarman

[Jay Ts[_2_]]

Mike Rivers wrote:
Jay Ts wrote:

aside from learning through a
discussion here that my Audiophile 2496 (arguably) has a design
problem,

On the Internet, anything can have a design problem. What problem do you
think it has, and more importantly, how do you think it affects you?

Well, the discussion was maybe 6 months ago, or at least
long enough that I don't remember how long ago. It was about
the "Wave From Hell" example relating to the question of
whether we should avoid normalizing to 0 dB.

My AP 2496 card (which is several years old, and I assume not the
most recent version) didn't handle the Wave From Hell properly.
To me, it seems like a minor issue, but one I'd like to
avoid in the future.

To the original poster: After reading Bob Morein's post,
I think maybe I did not understand that you said that the power
to the computer was shut down *completely*? That is,
the power supply's switch was off, or the power cord unplugged,
and you were still experiencing the problem?

If that were the case, never mind what I said in my previous
post.

I've been looking around for a better card to see if
I can find one with better performance and will work in my next
computer, which may not have PCI slots.

It's really a sad situation. You'll probably have to look at USB or
Firewire cards, and neither are really very good for handling audio
data. Perhaps you should think about how you can keep your present
computer running for another ten years.

But it's already been running 5 years, and my computer
was made by me, not Honda.

I keep hoping that if I wait long enough, some companies
will deliver PCIe audio cards. ESI claims to have some
PCIe audio interfaces. Maybe there will be others. I
hope that is not just wishful thinking!

It's a jungle out there. Better start thinking about analog tape if you
want to get any useful work done.

Haha. But wait, Has anyone ever patented multitrack recording
using wax cylinders? There might be an opportunity there.

I'm starting to wonder if my next computer-based audio
platform might be some kind of Android tablet from India. :-|

Jay Ts

[Mike Rivers]

On 10/25/2010 9:31 PM, hank alrich wrote:

Or get a Mac and a Metric Halo interface. (Not aiming to start a
platform discussion.) That combo works pretty well. MH isn't cheap, but
the performance is, IMO, extraordinarily good for what it costs.

And Metric Halo products have always only interfaced to the
Mac. Apogee has taken the same direction with their latest
interfaces. Maybe they know something that PC developers
don't know.

--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

[Mike Rivers]

On 10/26/2010 1:00 AM, Jay Ts wrote:

Well, the discussion was maybe 6 months ago, or at least
long enough that I don't remember how long ago. It was about
the "Wave From Hell" example relating to the question of
whether we should avoid normalizing to 0 dB.

This is something that's completely within your control. Why
blame M-Audio? Oh, never mind - this is the Internet where
manufacturers are always responsible for problems that users
create. You shouldn't be normalizing any waveform to 0 dBFS
is you care about quality.

I do remember some discussion about a "wave file from hell,"
a test that someone derived to test or prove something, but
I don't remember what it was. Arny???

My AP 2496 card (which is several years old, and I assume not the
most recent version) didn't handle the Wave From Hell properly.
To me, it seems like a minor issue, but one I'd like to
avoid in the future.

Do you recall what the file was, or in what way it didn't
handle it properly?

Perhaps you should think about how you can keep your present
computer running for another ten years.

But it's already been running 5 years, and my computer
was made by me, not Honda.

Lots of Hondas run for 20 years.

I keep hoping that if I wait long enough, some companies
will deliver PCIe audio cards. ESI claims to have some
PCIe audio interfaces. Maybe there will be others. I
hope that is not just wishful thinking!

It'll probably happen about two weeks before they decide to
stop making computers with a PCIe slot. The trend seems to
be toward devices that don't require opening up the
computer, though no doubt there will be some niche
manufacturers that make internal bus interfaces. Probably
the next big thing will be USB3.

Haha. But wait, Has anyone ever patented multitrack recording
using wax cylinders? There might be an opportunity there.

Well, there was the fabled Ellington stereo disk recordings
made on two disk cutters, but scholars differ on whether it
was actually planned as a stereo recording or just a backup.
I subscribe to the backup supposition.

I'm starting to wonder if my next computer-based audio
platform might be some kind of Android tablet from India. :-|

There have been 4-track and I believe 8 track DAW-like
applications for the iPhone for more than a year now, but
these are all production programs. I don't recall anyone
having made a multi-channel interface for it yet, but there
are a couple of better quality stereo interfaces.


--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

[mcp6453[_2_]]

On 10/26/2010 1:00 AM, Jay Ts wrote:
Mike Rivers wrote:
Jay Ts wrote:

aside from learning through a
discussion here that my Audiophile 2496 (arguably) has a design
problem,

On the Internet, anything can have a design problem. What problem do you
think it has, and more importantly, how do you think it affects you?

Well, the discussion was maybe 6 months ago, or at least
long enough that I don't remember how long ago. It was about
the "Wave From Hell" example relating to the question of
whether we should avoid normalizing to 0 dB.

My AP 2496 card (which is several years old, and I assume not the
most recent version) didn't handle the Wave From Hell properly.
To me, it seems like a minor issue, but one I'd like to
avoid in the future.

To the original poster: After reading Bob Morein's post,
I think maybe I did not understand that you said that the power
to the computer was shut down *completely*? That is,
the power supply's switch was off, or the power cord unplugged,
and you were still experiencing the problem?

If that were the case, never mind what I said in my previous
post.

I've been looking around for a better card to see if
I can find one with better performance and will work in my next
computer, which may not have PCI slots.

It's really a sad situation. You'll probably have to look at USB or
Firewire cards, and neither are really very good for handling audio
data. Perhaps you should think about how you can keep your present
computer running for another ten years.

But it's already been running 5 years, and my computer
was made by me, not Honda.

I keep hoping that if I wait long enough, some companies
will deliver PCIe audio cards. ESI claims to have some
PCIe audio interfaces. Maybe there will be others. I
hope that is not just wishful thinking!

It's a jungle out there. Better start thinking about analog tape if you
want to get any useful work done.

Haha. But wait, Has anyone ever patented multitrack recording
using wax cylinders? There might be an opportunity there.

I'm starting to wonder if my next computer-based audio
platform might be some kind of Android tablet from India. :-|

The card kept farting with the power completely shut down, the power cord
removed from the computer, the inputs to the card disconnected, the card moved
to a new slot, and the drivers reinstalled. As I said in my original post, the
amplitude of the fart was declining very slowly with time indicating that a cap
may be discharging.

[Mike Rivers]

On 10/26/2010 6:39 AM, mcp6453 wrote:

The card kept farting with the power completely shut down, the power cord
removed from the computer, the inputs to the card disconnected

And this is the way you use your Audiophile card? Does it
work OK under normal operating conditions (computer powered
up, inputs connected, etc.)?

My Lynx L22 card "farts" (actually it's more like a "silent
fart" kind of like a whistle) if I shut down the computer
with it patched to the monitors while they're still on. My
Hafler monitor amplifier "farts" when I shut its power down.
Been doing it for years. It doesn't affect anything.

I suspect that in your case, the "problem" is that the
computer power supply is leaving the output stage powered up
for a while after you turn off the computer and what you're
hearing is not unusual.

--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

[hank alrich]

Mike Rivers wrote:

On 10/25/2010 9:31 PM, hank alrich wrote:

Or get a Mac and a Metric Halo interface. (Not aiming to start a
platform discussion.) That combo works pretty well. MH isn't cheap, but
the performance is, IMO, extraordinarily good for what it costs.

And Metric Halo products have always only interfaced to the
Mac. Apogee has taken the same direction with their latest
interfaces. Maybe they know something that PC developers
don't know.

Yeah, that's why I included the computer in the equation. MH has been
that way from the gitgo and they don't seem interested in changing that.
I must say, though, that when it comes to customer support they maintain
an almost unbelievably high standard. Great little company with great
gear.

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://armadillomusicproductions.com/who'slistening.html
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShai...withDougHarman

[Jay Ts[_2_]]

Mike Rivers wrote:
Jay Ts wrote:

Well, the discussion was maybe 6 months ago, or at least long enough
that I don't remember how long ago. It was about the "Wave From
Hell" example relating to the question of whether we should avoid
normalizing to 0 dB.

This is something that's completely within your control. Why blame
M-Audio? Oh, never mind - this is the Internet where manufacturers are
always responsible for problems that users create. You shouldn't be
normalizing any waveform to 0 dBFS is you care about quality.

I disagree with all of that.

I do remember some discussion about a "wave file from hell," a test that
someone derived to test or prove something, but I don't remember what it
was.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...browse_thread/
thread/3cf49b6830b21ec7/e9b93dbd1858e5ad

If that URL appears as more than one line, you may need to remove the
newline to paste it URL back together.

Jay Ts

[Mike Rivers]

On 10/26/2010 4:06 PM, Jay Ts wrote:

I disagree with all of that.

Is that all you have to say on the subject?


I do remember some discussion about a "wave file from hell,"

Thanks for the link to the discussion. Now I remember it.
Your waveform links are all dead, so I couldn't see what you
were talking about, but I remember thinking when I was
browsing it (I usually lose interest in a thread pretty fast
when it becomes an argument between two people) that this
Waveform from Hell was a contrived demonstration of a well
known issue with D/A converters. One can learn two valuable
lessons from it. One is that inter-sample overload can
occur, and the other is how to avoid it.

So I stand my my statement that the "problem" is fully
within the control of the user. Just set the level correctly
and everything will be fine. Special case waveforms (which
don't really occur in music) need special care, but the
problem can be demonstrated even with sine waves.



--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

[Jay Ts[_2_]]

Mike Rivers wrote:
Jay Ts wrote:

I disagree with all of that.

Is that all you have to say on the subject?

Yes. Sorry, Mike, but I don't have much time lately, and I'm
trying to develop the ability to avoid extended, involved
discussions on usenet.

I do remember some discussion about a "wave file from hell,"

Thanks for the link to the discussion. Now I remember it. Your waveform
links are all dead, so I couldn't see what you were talking about, but I
remember thinking when I was browsing it (I usually lose interest in a
thread pretty fast when it becomes an argument between two people) that
this Waveform from Hell was a contrived demonstration of a well known
issue with D/A converters. One can learn two valuable lessons from it.

I was thinking that too, but people showed that it doesn't take
a "Wave From Hell" to result in a problem. The WFH is a contrived
wave that shows how bad it can get, at about the worst.

I did remove the scope trace photos from my website some months
ago when I was cleaning things up on the server. If it is really
important for you, let me know and maybe I can email them to you.

One is that inter-sample overload can occur, and the other is how to
avoid it.

So I stand my my statement that the "problem" is fully within the
control of the user. Just set the level correctly and everything will be
fine.

It's arguable, and I don't want to get into it.

At the least, I'd like to have confidence that my audio card
is designed so that this problem will never show up. I don't
think that is asking too much.

I know how hard it is to design hardware, software, or
any combination of them that is "perfect", but the problem
is that imperfections (bugs or design failures) in complicated
systems such as computer systems can lead to huge problems for people.

Lately I've been using my Audiophile 2496 mostly as a test instrument,
creating and analyzing things like full-scale sine waves or
square waves as part of designing circuits for the audio/music
market. I have to remember about the WFH (intersample) issue.
It's not always allowable to "just turn it down", because I need
to test things at 0 dbFS.

In any case, I think people should not need to analyze,
understand, and correct for odd behaviors of their "professional"
quality audio cards. As I said in the original thread, my pocket
computer, a Palm Tungsten E (not even their top of the line model)
was able to handle the waveform correctly!

Jay Ts

[Mike Rivers]

On 10/27/2010 1:35 AM, Jay Ts wrote:

I did remove the scope trace photos from my website some months
ago when I was cleaning things up on the server. If it is really
important for you, let me know and maybe I can email them to you.

No big deal. I understand now what you're talking about.

I know how hard it is to design hardware, software, or
any combination of them that is "perfect", but the problem
is that imperfections (bugs or design failures) in complicated
systems such as computer systems can lead to huge problems for people.

That's for sure. However, this particular problem is one
that's really only become a problem because of the practice
of trying to squeeze the most bits all the time out of a
digital recording, a practice which, in itself, results in
distorted audio. The fact that it's a little more distorted
because of inter-sample clipping is just icing on the mud pie.

Lately I've been using my Audiophile 2496 mostly as a test instrument,

And now you know why there are sound cards you possibly have
never heard of that costs times and more what the Audiophile
2496 does, and are uses in laboratory test setups. I think
it's really cool that i can use RightMark with my Lynx L22
or Mackie Satellite and get frequency response plots and
distortion analysis with greater precision and resolution
(as well as publishable graphics) than I can with my H-P 334
distortion analyzer or NTi Minirator/Minilyzer combination.
I don't need to swear by those measurements, and it's rare
that I can actually hear what I can see by making them.

If I was designing circuits to bring to market, I'd be sure
that I had test equipment capable of showing me what I
needed to know without lying to me. If a $100 consumer sound
card won't cut it, I'd get what I needed to get.

It's not always allowable to "just turn it down", because I need
to test things at 0 dbFS.

True, your test equipment must always be better than what
you're testing. That's a fundamental principle of metrology.

In any case, I think people should not need to analyze,
understand, and correct for odd behaviors of their "professional"
quality audio cards.

"Professional" is just a marketing word. But if you're going
to be a professional, you should understand what you're
working with, know its limitations, and know what you can
get away with and what you can't.

a Palm Tungsten E (not even their top of the line model)
was able to handle the waveform correctly!

Sometimes the older technology just did things better, not
because they were trying to (I doubt that the Palm designers
gave any thought at all to the audio playback quality), but
because they didn't take the same shortcuts that modern
designed do.

TASCAM, with their -10 dBV nominal operating level, was
really on to something back in the late 1970s. By using a
+/- 15V power supply and setting the nominal operating level
at +/- 0.32V, more than 20 dB of headroom was no sweat. With
today's gear still using the same, or lower, power supply
voltages, a nominal +4 dBu output level has a harder time
making it to +24 dBu (20 dB of headroom). But it looks good
on the spec sheet, and most users can live with it.

--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

[Jay Ts[_2_]]

Mike Rivers wrote:
Jay Ts wrote:

Lately I've been using my Audiophile 2496 mostly as a test instrument,

I think it's really cool that i can use
RightMark with my Lynx L22 or Mackie Satellite and get frequency
response plots and distortion analysis with greater precision and
resolution (as well as publishable graphics) than I can with my H-P 334
distortion analyzer or NTi Minirator/Minilyzer combination.

Exactly. I love doing things like that with just a sound card and
software. A decent sound card and spectrum analyzer make a great
tool for analysis.

Thanks for mentioning the Lynx L22 in this context. I'm looking
at the product's web page right now, and it looks like what I've
been wanting. I will study into it and see...

The AP 2496 is actually a little better than I need for what I'm doing
because I'm not yet ready to design for the high-end studio market,
and as you've pointed out, it's fairly easy to work around some
of the AP 2496's limitations. Since it's not ideal, of course
I'd like to get something better. With that and some other
upgrades here, maybe I can start working on circuits intended
for the high-end market.

Jay Ts

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Jay Ts wrote:

Well, the discussion was maybe 6 months ago, or at least
long enough that I don't remember how long ago. It was about
the "Wave From Hell" example relating to the question of
whether we should avoid normalizing to 0 dB.

IMO totally irrelevant in a musical context due to the amount of hf-energy
in that waveform.

In real life you need between 0.1 and 2 dB's of headroom to be able to mp3
encode and decode without clipping, test it with the actual file. That test
is more demanding that any concern regarding real life between sample overs
in my understanding of said real life.

My AP 2496 card (which is several years old, and I assume not the
most recent version) didn't handle the Wave From Hell properly.
To me, it seems like a minor issue, but one I'd like to
avoid in the future.

Sound cards for post pci slots are entering the market, but right now they
are not USD 100 sound cards.

Haha. But wait, Has anyone ever patented multitrack recording
using wax cylinders? There might be an opportunity there.

For digital you could use any reasonably large mountain face and a skilled
work crew. Stone age engravings generally have stood the test of time, of
course: we haven't found those that haven't ...

I'm starting to wonder if my next computer-based audio
platform might be some kind of Android tablet from India. :-|

You get more in the same size box every year, and also more when the box
gets smaller, reckon that's the single largest difference between computers
as a vice and chocolates as a vice.

As for M-audio, I like their products. I became disenthused with their
support when I understood that a memory allocation conflict between the raid
0 pci harddisk controller I used then and the DiO2428 would not be addressed
by them. On the bright side, the card worked well last time I had it in
fitted to a box.

With the AP2496 I prefer to use the non-newest drivers, the newest version
gives it a lobotomy and removes the possibility of recording the monitormix
as I recall testing it.

Jay Ts

Kind regards

Peter Larsen