[Roy W. Rising[_2_]]

The Beyer M130 and M160 mics are "Dual Ribbon" types. How are the ribbons
configured? Thanks.

--
~
~ Roy
"If you notice the sound, it's wrong!"

[Scott Dorsey]

Roy W. Rising wrote:
The Beyer M130 and M160 mics are "Dual Ribbon" types. How are the ribbons
configured? Thanks.

There is a second ribbon _behind_ the first one. This changes the acoustical
loading and damping of the front ribbon, but because the ribbons are corrugated
in both vertical and horizontal directions (like RCAs) the damping is already
a little odd. It also means the magnet assembly needs to create constant
flux over more than twice the area that it would otherwise have to.

It's totally different than the crappy Chinese mikes that take two Wes
Dooley motors and fuse them side-by-side.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Roy W. Rising[_2_]]

(Scott Dorsey) wrote:
Roy W. Rising wrote:
The Beyer M130 and M160 mics are "Dual Ribbon" types. How are the
ribbons configured? Thanks.

There is a second ribbon _behind_ the first one. This changes the
acoustical loading and damping of the front ribbon, but because the
ribbons are corrugated in both vertical and horizontal directions (like
RCAs) the damping is already a little odd. It also means the magnet
assembly needs to create constant flux over more than twice the area that
it would otherwise have to.

It's totally different than the crappy Chinese mikes that take two Wes
Dooley motors and fuse them side-by-side.
--scott

Thanks, Scott. That's about what I'd imagined.

I've examined an RCA 77DX ribbon replaced by ENAK, only vertical
corrugations are evident. Can you enlarge on the horizontal aspect?

Creating constant flux over the larger area does not seem to be a problem,
given the attractively linear response.

--
~
~ Roy
"If you notice the sound, it's wrong!"

[hank alrich]

Roy W. Rising wrote:

(Scott Dorsey) wrote:
Roy W. Rising wrote:
The Beyer M130 and M160 mics are "Dual Ribbon" types. How are the
ribbons configured? Thanks.

There is a second ribbon _behind_ the first one. This changes the
acoustical loading and damping of the front ribbon, but because the
ribbons are corrugated in both vertical and horizontal directions (like
RCAs) the damping is already a little odd. It also means the magnet
assembly needs to create constant flux over more than twice the area that
it would otherwise have to.

It's totally different than the crappy Chinese mikes that take two Wes
Dooley motors and fuse them side-by-side.
--scott

Thanks, Scott. That's about what I'd imagined.

I've examined an RCA 77DX ribbon replaced by ENAK, only vertical
corrugations are evident. Can you enlarge on the horizontal aspect?

Creating constant flux over the larger area does not seem to be a problem,
given the attractively linear response.

Some folks consider their low sensitivity a "problem". It just means one
needs a capable preamp.

--
ha
Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam

[Ty Ford]

On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 01:54:53 -0400, hank alrich wrote
(in article ):

Roy W. Rising wrote:

(Scott Dorsey) wrote:
Roy W. Rising wrote:
The Beyer M130 and M160 mics are "Dual Ribbon" types. How are the
ribbons configured? Thanks.

There is a second ribbon _behind_ the first one. This changes the
acoustical loading and damping of the front ribbon, but because the
ribbons are corrugated in both vertical and horizontal directions (like
RCAs) the damping is already a little odd. It also means the magnet
assembly needs to create constant flux over more than twice the area that
it would otherwise have to.

It's totally different than the crappy Chinese mikes that take two Wes
Dooley motors and fuse them side-by-side.
--scott

Thanks, Scott. That's about what I'd imagined.

I've examined an RCA 77DX ribbon replaced by ENAK, only vertical
corrugations are evident. Can you enlarge on the horizontal aspect?

Creating constant flux over the larger area does not seem to be a problem,
given the attractively linear response.

Some folks consider their low sensitivity a "problem". It just means one
needs a capable preamp.


To which I will add, get an AEA TRP preamp from Wes Dooley. In addition to
what I hear on the R84, I'm hearing more from my M160 and 77DX with the TRP.

Wes did a nice job on that preamp.

Regards,

Ty Ford





--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU

[Paul Stamler]

"Ty Ford" wrote in message
. ..
Some folks consider their low sensitivity a "problem". It just means one
needs a capable preamp.


To which I will add, get an AEA TRP preamp from Wes Dooley. In addition to
what I hear on the R84, I'm hearing more from my M160 and 77DX with the
TRP.

Wes did a nice job on that preamp.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the preamp was designed by Fred
Forssell, working under contract to AEA. Whomever, it's a nice job for sure.

Peace,
Paul

[Richard Kuschel]

On Jul 10, 6:10 am, Ty Ford wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 01:54:53 -0400, hank alrich wrote
(in article ):



Roy W. Rising wrote:

(Scott Dorsey) wrote:
Roy W. Rising wrote:
The Beyer M130 and M160 mics are "Dual Ribbon" types. How are the
ribbons configured? Thanks.

There is a second ribbon _behind_ the first one. This changes the
acoustical loading and damping of the front ribbon, but because the
ribbons are corrugated in both vertical and horizontal directions (like
RCAs) the damping is already a little odd. It also means the magnet
assembly needs to create constant flux over more than twice the area that
it would otherwise have to.

It's totally different than the crappy Chinese mikes that take two Wes
Dooley motors and fuse them side-by-side.
--scott

Thanks, Scott. That's about what I'd imagined.

I've examined an RCA 77DX ribbon replaced by ENAK, only vertical
corrugations are evident. Can you enlarge on the horizontal aspect?

Creating constant flux over the larger area does not seem to be a problem,
given the attractively linear response.

Some folks consider their low sensitivity a "problem". It just means one
needs a capable preamp.

To which I will add, get an AEA TRP preamp from Wes Dooley. In addition to
what I hear on the R84, I'm hearing more from my M160 and 77DX with the TRP.

Wes did a nice job on that preamp.

Regards,

Ty Ford

--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demoshttp://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU

I just demo'd one of the AEA TRP preamps yesterday and i was blown
away by it! I have never had enough gain for a decent ribbon mic. Now
to save a few dollars and get one!

[Roy W. Rising[_2_]]

(hank alrich) wrote:
[snip]

Some folks consider their low sensitivity a "problem". It just means one
needs a capable preamp.

Here's an example of a Beyer M160 with a "capable" preamp. In this case
it was a McCurdy AT242 easily handling the output of a boom-mounted M160.
The orchestra was mic'd with EV RE15s, I used a Neumann U67 for the choir.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsGm-DqbmSA

--
~
~ Roy
"If you notice the sound, it's wrong!"

[Scott Dorsey]

Roy W. Rising wrote:

Thanks, Scott. That's about what I'd imagined.

I've examined an RCA 77DX ribbon replaced by ENAK, only vertical
corrugations are evident. Can you enlarge on the horizontal aspect?

Err... I mean the corrugations on those mikes are perpendicular to the
ribbon.

On the Beyer, there are corrugations in both directions, and some diagonal
ones. They appear to be corrugated with a die rather than being run through
coarse gears.

Creating constant flux over the larger area does not seem to be a problem,
given the attractively linear response.

Well, the other trick is that the Beyers have very high ribbon tension
compared with the old RCAs, so the ribbon doesn't actually move so much.
This reduces the amount of area over which the flux needs to stay constant.
They are very impressive designs.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Roy W. Rising[_2_]]

(Scott Dorsey) wrote:
Roy W. Rising wrote:

Thanks, Scott. That's about what I'd imagined.

I've examined an RCA 77DX ribbon replaced by ENAK, only vertical
corrugations are evident. Can you enlarge on the horizontal aspect?

Err... I mean the corrugations on those mikes are perpendicular to the
ribbon.

On the Beyer, there are corrugations in both directions, and some
diagonal ones. They appear to be corrugated with a die rather than being
run through coarse gears.

Creating constant flux over the larger area does not seem to be a
problem, given the attractively linear response.

Well, the other trick is that the Beyers have very high ribbon tension
compared with the old RCAs, so the ribbon doesn't actually move so much.
This reduces the amount of area over which the flux needs to stay
constant. They are very impressive designs.
--scott

So ... what happens to the performance when Steve Sank re-ribbons one with
an RCA 77DX type of ribbon?

Also, aren't the very short ribbons of the Beyers likely to be more
accurate than the 2" giants found in Royers and others? It would seem
similar to the large vs. small diaphragm issue among condenser mics.

--
~
~ Roy
"If you notice the sound, it's wrong!"

[Mike Rivers]

Roy W. Rising wrote:

So ... what happens to the performance when Steve Sank re-ribbons one with
an RCA 77DX type of ribbon?

I have a Mackie 800R preamp with a couple of channels that have
adjustable input impedance. I like the sound of my M260DX btter at the
highest impedance setting (2400 ohms) than at any of the lower impedance
settings. I haven't tried it into a TRP though.

--
If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach
me he
double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers
)

[Scott Dorsey]

Roy W. Rising wrote:

So ... what happens to the performance when Steve Sank re-ribbons one with
an RCA 77DX type of ribbon?

It is totally changed, and it sounds a lot more like a 77DX than a Beyer.
Whether this is a good thing or a bad thing depends on your point of view.
I already have plenty of 77s in the closet and I don't need any more.

Also, aren't the very short ribbons of the Beyers likely to be more
accurate than the 2" giants found in Royers and others? It would seem
similar to the large vs. small diaphragm issue among condenser mics.

Absolutely. The Royers are funny, though... they are also under very high
tension. But the top end on the Beyer and Royer mikes is going to be better
than anything RCA ever made (even the BK-11, which is a hard thing to beat),
specifically because of the ribbon size and tension.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."