[Bill Bowden]

I have a Yamaha Pf80 keyboard I want to use to play midi files and
possibly do some recording with additional software. Looking on the
web, I see the "Yamaha UX16 MIDI Interface" advertised for about $40
that claims to translate the dual MIDI plugs to USB. I'm wondering if
this is a good approach, and what additional software I might need to
play MIDI files from a WinXP home machine.

Thanks,

-Bill

[Laurence Payne[_2_]]

On Tue, 3 Jun 2008 22:02:41 -0700 (PDT), Bill Bowden
wrote:

Yamaha Pf80

[Laurence Payne[_2_]]

On Tue, 3 Jun 2008 22:02:41 -0700 (PDT), Bill Bowden
wrote:

I have a Yamaha Pf80 keyboard I want to use to play midi files and
possibly do some recording with additional software. Looking on the
web, I see the "Yamaha UX16 MIDI Interface" advertised for about $40
that claims to translate the dual MIDI plugs to USB. I'm wondering if
this is a good approach, and what additional software I might need to
play MIDI files from a WinXP home machine.


Yes, if you want to connect your keyboard and computer you'll need a
MIDI interface. The UX16 seems as good as any. Edirol and others
offer similar devives. They all do the job.

The PF80 was one of the last non-digital pianos Yamaha made. It's got
a full-sized keyboard and a small selection of piano, clav, electric
piano etc. sounds. They're quite good in a DX7-ish sort of way, but
you'll get a nice surprise when you connect the keyboard to your
computer running one of today's sampled pianos in software!

I wouldn't worry too much about using the PF80 as an output device for
MIDI files. It lacks a full General MIDI sound set, and those sounds
it DOES have are really no better than the sounds in the Microsoft
Synth, the Windows device that plays MIDI files on your computer by
default. Where it will be useful is as an input device when you do
your own recording.

Get the interface and download Reaper
http://www.cockos.com/reaper/

Play with it for a bit. If you like what you're doing, come back for
advice how you can go further.

[Earl Kiosterud]

"Bill Bowden" wrote in message
...
I have a Yamaha Pf80 keyboard I want to use to play midi files and
possibly do some recording with additional software. Looking on the
web, I see the "Yamaha UX16 MIDI Interface" advertised for about $40
that claims to translate the dual MIDI plugs to USB. I'm wondering if
this is a good approach, and what additional software I might need to
play MIDI files from a WinXP home machine.

Thanks,

-Bill

Bill,

If you want to use the Yamaha as an output device, there is a potential problem with patch
numbers. Standard MIDI files invariably use the General MIDI Specification, which assigns
patch numbers to sounds. If the Pf80 doesn't subscribe to General MIDI, it will play all
the wrong sounds. Also, if it's isn't multi-timbral, meaning it can play different sounds
on any of the 16 channels in a MIDI link, it will play only one of them, on whatever channel
it operates on MIDI in. I suspect it is neither, but leave it to you to check it out.

Your question isn't specific enough to answer about using it as a MIDI keyboard. You'll
have problems with sound-card latency if you're using the Microsoft Wavetable Synth (which
comes free with Windows), unless you add a soundcard capable of running with a low-latency
driver (WDM or ASIO). You'll play a note, and it will come out later, and it'll be hard to
play even Twinkle Twinkle without getting confounded. If you're going to record the
keyboard's MIDI and play it back to the PF80's sound module, you'll need MIDI software for
that. That should work fine with pretty much any MIDI interface, such as the one you're
considering. If instead you're going to record the PF80's audio, you'll need an audio
recorder program. Many do both MIDI and audio.
--
Earl

[Laurence Payne[_2_]]

On Wed, 04 Jun 2008 17:58:43 GMT, "Earl Kiosterud"
wrote:

You'll
have problems with sound-card latency if you're using the Microsoft Wavetable Synth (which
comes free with Windows), unless you add a soundcard capable of running with a low-latency
driver (WDM or ASIO).

You'll have problems with the Microsoft Synth no matter what soundcard
or driver you install. It has irredeemably high latency on any
hardware.

[Earl Kiosterud]

"Laurence Payne" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 04 Jun 2008 17:58:43 GMT, "Earl Kiosterud"
wrote:

You'll
have problems with sound-card latency if you're using the Microsoft Wavetable Synth (which
comes free with Windows), unless you add a soundcard capable of running with a low-latency
driver (WDM or ASIO).

You'll have problems with the Microsoft Synth no matter what soundcard
or driver you install. It has irredeemably high latency on any
hardware.

I'm sure you're right. I never really thought about actually USING the S/W Synth. By
changing the default playback device (Control Panel), it would play through my Delta
soundcard with Winamp playing a mid file, but to see what kind of latency there was, I tried
to get Sonar to use it, but it doesn't show up. Never really tried to use it. Ain't gonna.
It probably uses only MME to talk to the soundcard anyway, not WDM or ASIO.
--
Earl

[Earl Kiosterud]

"Earl Kiosterud" wrote in message news:rhF1k.5821$BY1.5730@trnddc06...

"Laurence Payne" wrote in message

You'll have problems with the Microsoft Synth no matter what soundcard
or driver you install. It has irredeemably high latency on any
hardware.

I'm sure you're right. I never really thought about actually USING the S/W Synth. By
changing the default playback device (Control Panel), it would play through my Delta
soundcard with Winamp playing a mid file, but to see what kind of latency there was, I
tried to get Sonar to use it, but it doesn't show up. Never really tried to use it. Ain't
gonna. It probably uses only MME to talk to the soundcard anyway, not WDM or ASIO.
--
Earl


Hey Laurence,

While looking for something else (information on the venerable Roland MPU401 MIDI
interface), I stumbled onto the fact that the Wavetable Software Synth doesn't even show up
as an available MIDI device in Sonar unless it's set for MME-only (meaning no use of WDM or
ASIO soundcard interfaces). When I did that, it appeared, and I could in fact play a live
MIDI keyboard through to the Software Synth. And of course, just as you said, there was
plenty of latency, about a third of a second. They don't give you any control over buffer
size (latency) with MME.
--
Earl

[Bill Bowden]

On Jun 4, 10:58 am, "Earl Kiosterud" wrote:
"Bill Bowden" wrote in message

...

I have a Yamaha Pf80 keyboard I want to use to play midi files and
possibly do some recording with additional software. Looking on the
web, I see the "Yamaha UX16 MIDI Interface" advertised for about $40
that claims to translate the dual MIDI plugs to USB. I'm wondering if
this is a good approach, and what additional software I might need to
play MIDI files from a WinXP home machine.

Thanks,

-Bill

Bill,

If you want to use the Yamaha as an output device, there is a potential problem with patch
numbers. Standard MIDI files invariably use the General MIDI Specification, which assigns
patch numbers to sounds. If the Pf80 doesn't subscribe to General MIDI, it will play all
the wrong sounds. Also, if it's isn't multi-timbral, meaning it can play different sounds
on any of the 16 channels in a MIDI link, it will play only one of them, on whatever channel
it operates on MIDI in. I suspect it is neither, but leave it to you to check it out.

Your question isn't specific enough to answer about using it as a MIDI keyboard. You'll
have problems with sound-card latency if you're using the Microsoft Wavetable Synth (which
comes free with Windows), unless you add a soundcard capable of running with a low-latency
driver (WDM or ASIO). You'll play a note, and it will come out later, and it'll be hard to
play even Twinkle Twinkle without getting confounded. If you're going to record the
keyboard's MIDI and play it back to the PF80's sound module, you'll need MIDI software for
that. That should work fine with pretty much any MIDI interface, such as the one you're
considering. If instead you're going to record the PF80's audio, you'll need an audio
recorder program. Many do both MIDI and audio.
--
Earl

Well, my goal is to learn some new piano pieces from MIDI files. I
have some old DOS software (MIDI Maestro 1989) I used years ago to
record and play MIDI files on the Pf80, but it requires an 8 bit
interface card that won't fit into newer machines. I have the card,
just can't plug it in, so I was thinking about using the USB port
instead. I realize I will need a newer sequencing program of some sort
to display and edit notes, but I thought I would just start with the
interface to see if I can get midi files to play on the keyboard. I'm
only interested in piano music, so the multiple tracks and different
sounds are not an issue. The Pf80 only delivers whatever voice is
selected, piano, harpsichord, ect. and all MIDI tracks come out with
the same voice. This is ok, I'm only interested in one voice.

But you say there is a latency problem, meaning the timing may not be
correct, using the built-in Windows software?

What low-budget sequencing software would you recommend to fix the
problem?

-Bill

[Laurence Payne[_2_]]

On Wed, 4 Jun 2008 17:45:49 -0700 (PDT), Bill Bowden
wrote:

Well, my goal is to learn some new piano pieces from MIDI files. I
have some old DOS software (MIDI Maestro 1989) I used years ago to
record and play MIDI files on the Pf80, but it requires an 8 bit
interface card that won't fit into newer machines. I have the card,
just can't plug it in, so I was thinking about using the USB port
instead. I realize I will need a newer sequencing program of some sort
to display and edit notes, but I thought I would just start with the
interface to see if I can get midi files to play on the keyboard. I'm
only interested in piano music, so the multiple tracks and different
sounds are not an issue. The Pf80 only delivers whatever voice is
selected, piano, harpsichord, ect. and all MIDI tracks come out with
the same voice. This is ok, I'm only interested in one voice.

But you say there is a latency problem, meaning the timing may not be
correct, using the built-in Windows software?

If you double-click a MIDI file on your computer, it will play through
your computer speakers using the Microsoft Synth as sound source.
Latency will not be an issue - the fact that sound will start coming
out half-a-second AFTER you press start rather than absolutely
immediately doesn't matter at all.

If you install a MIDI interface and connect your PF80, you can specify
that sound comes from that rather than from the computer speakers. Is
this such a big deal? The Microsoft Synth has piano sounds, probably
just as realistic as those in the PF80. Does it matter which set of
speakers you listen to?

If you're only interested in recording your piano playing using just
piano sounds, there's no problem. Connect MIDI Out of the PF80 to
MIDI In of the computer. And MIDI In to MIDI Out. In your sequencer
program select the PF80 as the output device as well (or rather select
the MIDI interface - the computer has no idea what is connected to
it.) Select Local Off at the PF80 (it's in the manual). This will
stop it playing BOTH directly from it's keyboard AND the input looped
back from the computer. That's all!

You've already had a suggestion for a free-download sequencer program
that will get you startrd.