[Lars Farm]

What pin goes where? How would one solder TRS-Female-XLR and
XLR-TRS-Male adapter cables in order to use a mic cable as a headphone
cable? Run phones over a snake.

L

--
lars farm // http://www.farm.se
lars is also a mail-account on the server farm.se

[Geoff]

Lars Farm wrote:
What pin goes where? How would one solder TRS-Female-XLR and
XLR-TRS-Male adapter cables in order to use a mic cable as a
headphone cable? Run phones over a snake.

Would make no difference at all, as long as the connections are the same at
each end. But I would tend to use 1=G, 2=L, 3=R Which loosely follows the
jack analogy Ring=Red=Right.

geoff

[Rob Reedijk]

geoff wrote:
Lars Farm wrote:
What pin goes where? How would one solder TRS-Female-XLR and
XLR-TRS-Male adapter cables in order to use a mic cable as a
headphone cable? Run phones over a snake.

Would make no difference at all, as long as the connections are the same at
each end. But I would tend to use 1=G, 2=L, 3=R Which loosely follows the
jack analogy Ring=Red=Right.

Actaully, it does make a difference, but your way is the correct way.
Considering there are lots of XLR to TRS adaptors and various types
of insert cables, using 2/Tip/Left/Hot 3/Ring/Right/Cold and
1/Sleeve/ground/ground keeps things consistent.

I made up several TRS-Female to XLR adaptor (not so common)s so that in
combination with TRS-Male to XLR adaptors (which are common) I could do
the same thing, run headphones any distance I wanted using mic cables.

Rob R.

[Laurence Payne]

On Mon, 07 Jan 2008 21:27:07 GMT,
(Lars Farm) wrote:

What pin goes where? How would one solder TRS-Female-XLR and
XLR-TRS-Male adapter cables in order to use a mic cable as a headphone
cable? Run phones over a snake.

Any way you like, as long as you do it the same at both ends.

[Geoff]

Rob Reedijk wrote:
geoff wrote:
Lars Farm wrote:
What pin goes where? How would one solder TRS-Female-XLR and
XLR-TRS-Male adapter cables in order to use a mic cable as a
headphone cable? Run phones over a snake.

Would make no difference at all, as long as the connections are the
same at each end. But I would tend to use 1=G, 2=L, 3=R Which
loosely follows the jack analogy Ring=Red=Right.

Actaully, it does make a difference,


Well, only if the screen resistance is significantly different to the
conductor resistance, or is operating in extreme interference fields....

goeff

[Scott Dorsey]

In article 1iada8h.vkq38z1wuog5yN%see.bottom.of.page.for.lar ,
Lars Farm wrote:
What pin goes where? How would one solder TRS-Female-XLR and
XLR-TRS-Male adapter cables in order to use a mic cable as a headphone
cable? Run phones over a snake.

However you want. I'd probably do pin 1 to sleeve, 3 to tip, and 2 to
ring, but it really doesn't matter a bit as long as both adaptors are
the same. It's probably a good idea to run pin 1 to sleeve just in
case someday you decide to use the adaptors for something else other
than headphone.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Mike Rivers]

On Jan 7, 4:39 pm, "geoff" wrote:

Would make no difference at all, as long as the connections are the same at
each end.

Since the headphone cable is unshielded, there's no compelling reason
to use the mic cable shield as the common (sleeve) lead, but I think
everyone would intuitively do it that way.

Common sense would be to use Pin 1 as the sleeve with your own choice
of how Pins 2 and 3 relate to left and right. TRS-XLR adapters (which
is essentially what you're making or buying) are wired with the tip
wired to Pin 2 and ring wired to Pin 3.

[Geoff]

Mike Rivers wrote:
On Jan 7, 4:39 pm, "geoff" wrote:

Would make no difference at all, as long as the connections are the
same at each end.

Since the headphone cable is unshielded, there's no compelling reason
to use the mic cable shield as the common (sleeve) lead, but I think
everyone would intuitively do it that way.

Common sense would be to use Pin 1 as the sleeve with your own choice
of how Pins 2 and 3 relate to left and right. TRS-XLR adapters (which
is essentially what you're making or buying) are wired with the tip
wired to Pin 2 and ring wired to Pin 3.

Hey Mike - we agree ;-!

You may not, however, agree with Recording Mag's Sound Forge 9 review which
calls it's manual "exhaustive, clear, and concise". ;-)

geoff

[Roy W. Rising[_2_]]

(Scott Dorsey) wrote:
In article 1iada8h.vkq38z1wuog5yN%see.bottom.of.page.for.lar ,
Lars Farm wrote:
What pin goes where? How would one solder TRS-Female-XLR and
XLR-TRS-Male adapter cables in order to use a mic cable as a headphone
cable? Run phones over a snake.

However you want. I'd probably do pin 1 to sleeve, 3 to tip, and 2 to
ring, but it really doesn't matter a bit as long as both adaptors are
the same. It's probably a good idea to run pin 1 to sleeve just in
case someday you decide to use the adaptors for something else other
than headphone.
--scott

Good answer, with one exception. Patchbay wiring usually ties the tip to
pin 2 and ring to pin 3. Pin 1 is somewhat universally used for shields,
hence the sleeve.

One other note ... watch for possible cross-talk into mic circuits whenever
you run a different level of signal in a mic snake.

--
~
~ Roy
"If you notice the sound, it's wrong!"

[Mike Rivers]

On Jan 7, 7:41 pm, "geoff" wrote:

You may not, however, agree with Recording Mag's Sound Forge 9 review which
calls it's manual "exhaustive, clear, and concise". ;-)

If it's anything like the Sound Forge 8 manual, I could go along with
the "Concise" part but I do get exhausted trying to find information
in it (SF8) and while what I find is clear, it isn't always about what
I'm seeking.

[Mike Rivers]

On Jan 7, 8:03 pm, Roy W. Rising
wrote:

Good answer, with one exception. Patchbay wiring usually ties the tip to
pin 2 and ring to pin 3.

Scott never got over the AES declaration that Pin 2 is hot.

[Frank Stearns]

Mike Rivers writes:

On Jan 7, 7:41 pm, "geoff" wrote:

You may not, however, agree with Recording Mag's Sound Forge 9 review which
calls it's manual "exhaustive, clear, and concise". ;-)

If it's anything like the Sound Forge 8 manual, I could go along with
the "Concise" part but I do get exhausted trying to find information
in it (SF8) and while what I find is clear, it isn't always about what
I'm seeking.

Manual, shsmaual... I'd just settle for the &^$$@@** thing NOT to crash at every
turn... (Literally... two operations is as far as I can get before a crash. Yup,
I have rev C.)

Or their UI design folks making idiot, IDIOT *I D I O T* design decisions such as
removing the "save as" function from preset windows. Now they have only "save" and
"delete". Sure, you can overwrite a function with SAVE if you remember the exact
name, but if don't and you scroll for it and select it, kablam!!! Your hard-won new
settings are gone, overwritten the old ones.

No such danger with a "save as" function!

What the HELL were these people thinking????

Oh yeah.... and there's still no option to display the full path in a data window's
title bar as part of the file name. (Really handy if you different folders for
version history and version control.)

And how about support tickets fielded too slowly to stay within the time limits of
their TS website?

Why not just email the support answer and save the headache of that same text being
auto-deleted from a cumbersome website setup? They go to the trouble of emailing you
that an answer has been made, so JUST INCLUDE THE ANSWER WITH THE NOTICE!!

Rant off before I bust a vessle out the side of my head. :/

Frank Stearns
Mobile Audio
--

[Lars Farm]

Lars Farm wrote:

What pin goes where? How would one solder TRS-Female-XLR and
XLR-TRS-Male adapter cables in order to use a mic cable as a headphone
cable? Run phones over a snake.

L

Thanks to all. Didn't expect this to trigger so many responses.

L


--
lars farm // http://www.farm.se
lars is also a mail-account on the server farm.se

[HKC]

Since the headphone cable is unshielded, there's no compelling reason
to use the mic cable shield as the common (sleeve) lead, but I think
everyone would intuitively do it that way.


Will you have chassis plugs at the end of the snake or just regular plugs.
If you have a box at the end of the snake you could use a chassis plug like
the Neutrik Female XLR/Jack which will give you the possibility to use this
line as a standard balanced cable in case you should need that at some
point.

[Gareth Magennis]

"David Morgan (MAMS)" /Odm wrote in message
news:Y7Egj.3381$hS.2479@trnddc08...

"Soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...

"Lars Farm" wrote in message
news:1iada8h.vkq38z1wuog5yN%see.bottom.of.page.for ...
What pin goes where? How would one solder TRS-Female-XLR and
XLR-TRS-Male adapter cables in order to use a mic cable as a headphone
cable? Run phones over a snake.



I would think you will have a tremendous amount of left-right crosstalk.
The
two wires are twisted and unshielded with respect to each other.

Nope.... even though both left and right sides will share a common ground,
crosstalk isn't usually an issue at all.


DM





So how much crosstalk would there really be in an Insert cable wired with
just one piece of 3 core mic cable? I know this is common practice in Pro
live systems, but have heard studio engineers frowning about this,
preferring separate send and return cables..


Cheers,



Gareth.

[Peter Larsen[_2_]]

Soundhaspriority wrote:

I would think you will have a tremendous amount of left-right
crosstalk. The two wires are twisted and unshielded with respect to
each other.

20 dB channel separation is fine for listening to stereo. It would be
marginal or worse in a lot of other contexts, but just for listening ...
nah, not to worry.

Don't do it.

Works fine for me to send unbal stereo via 45 feet of mic cable.

Bob Morein


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[John Williamson]

Gareth Magennis wrote:
So how much crosstalk would there really be in an Insert cable wired with
just one piece of 3 core mic cable? I know this is common practice in Pro
live systems, but have heard studio engineers frowning about this,
preferring separate send and return cables..

Very little, depending on the capacitance between the cores & the
impedance of the connected equipment.

OTOH, in a studio, it's easy enough to run an extra cable, avoiding the
possibility altogether, whereas live, you want as little clutter in the
working area as possible.

Just my 2 penn'orth...

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[Gareth Magennis]

"John Williamson" wrote in message
...
Gareth Magennis wrote:
So how much crosstalk would there really be in an Insert cable wired with
just one piece of 3 core mic cable? I know this is common practice in
Pro live systems, but have heard studio engineers frowning about this,
preferring separate send and return cables..

Very little, depending on the capacitance between the cores & the
impedance of the connected equipment.

OTOH, in a studio, it's easy enough to run an extra cable, avoiding the
possibility altogether, whereas live, you want as little clutter in the
working area as possible.


Though if you are wiring a studio from scratch, you will need twice the
patchbay cable runs and almost twice the labour costs to implement it. More
than a few penn'orth for possibly very little gain! (Which is really where
my question is coming from)


Gareth.




Just my 2 penn'orth...

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[Arny Krueger]

"Soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...

"Lars Farm" wrote in message
news:1iada8h.vkq38z1wuog5yN%see.bottom.of.page.for ...
What pin goes where? How would one solder TRS-Female-XLR and
XLR-TRS-Male adapter cables in order to use a mic cable as a headphone
cable? Run phones over a snake.

I would think you will have a tremendous amount of left-right crosstalk.

Not unless the cable is unusually long.

Headphones have very low impedances. Consider a 32 ohm headphone hooked to
a 100' mic cable.

The signal wires in the mic cable are capacititvely coupled to each other,
and that is the potential source of the problem. But as usual, its a matter
of quantification.

The two wires are twisted and unshielded with respect to each other.

They will have a capacitance between them of about 35 pF per foot, or 3500
pF for the whole cable. At 20 KHz, the impedance between the two wires is
about 2,273 ohms.

Imagine a voltage divider composed of 2,273 ohms in series with 32 ohms. The
attenuation is about 40 dB. IOW, at 20 KHz the channel separation is still
about 40 dB.

Don't do it.

Channel separation is still more than 20 dB with a 1,000 foot cable.

[Meindert Sprang]

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
Headphones have very low impedances. Consider a 32 ohm headphone hooked
to
a 100' mic cable.

The signal wires in the mic cable are capacititvely coupled to each other,
and that is the potential source of the problem. But as usual, its a
matter
of quantification.

The two wires are twisted and unshielded with respect to each other.

They will have a capacitance between them of about 35 pF per foot, or 3500
pF for the whole cable. At 20 KHz, the impedance between the two wires is
about 2,273 ohms.

Imagine a voltage divider composed of 2,273 ohms in series with 32 ohms.
The
attenuation is about 40 dB. IOW, at 20 KHz the channel separation is still
about 40 dB.

And while you have 32 ohms at one end of the cable, there is an amplifier on
the other with with an even lower output impedance in parallel with the 32
ohm of the headphone

Meindert

[Mike Rivers]

On Jan 8, 6:12 am, "Gareth Magennis"
wrote:

So how much crosstalk would there really be in an Insert cable wired with
just one piece of 3 core mic cable? I know this is common practice in Pro
live systems, but have heard studio engineers frowning about this,

People with no practical experience make up problems that only exist
in theory, and not always very sound application of theory.

The reason for the separate send and return connections over a common
jack is simple. If they're separate, the connections to outboard
equipment can be balanced. There aren't enough conductors in a TRS
jack to do that. There are some advantages, under some conditions, to
using balanced connections but crosstalk isn't one of them.

[Scott Dorsey]

Mike Rivers wrote:
On Jan 7, 8:03 pm, Roy W. Rising
wrote:

Good answer, with one exception. Patchbay wiring usually ties the tip to
pin 2 and ring to pin 3.

Scott never got over the AES declaration that Pin 2 is hot.

It was too late. If you're going to declare a standard, you need to do it
before half the world is operating the other way.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

David Morgan \(MAMS\) /Odm wrote:
"Soundhaspriority" wrote in message ...

"Lars Farm" wrote in message
news:1iada8h.vkq38z1wuog5yN%see.bottom.of.page.for ...
What pin goes where? How would one solder TRS-Female-XLR and
XLR-TRS-Male adapter cables in order to use a mic cable as a headphone
cable? Run phones over a snake.

I would think you will have a tremendous amount of left-right crosstalk. The
two wires are twisted and unshielded with respect to each other.

Nope.... even though both left and right sides will share a common ground,
crosstalk isn't usually an issue at all.

Because the impedance of both the source and the destination are so low.
Capacitively-coupled crosstalk is a function of capacitance, impedance, and
frequency.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Gareth Magennis]

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
...
On Jan 8, 6:12 am, "Gareth Magennis"
wrote:

So how much crosstalk would there really be in an Insert cable wired with
just one piece of 3 core mic cable? I know this is common practice in
Pro
live systems, but have heard studio engineers frowning about this,

People with no practical experience make up problems that only exist
in theory, and not always very sound application of theory.

The reason for the separate send and return connections over a common
jack is simple. If they're separate, the connections to outboard
equipment can be balanced. There aren't enough conductors in a TRS
jack to do that. There are some advantages, under some conditions, to
using balanced connections but crosstalk isn't one of them.


The particular instance I was thinking of was the Insert cable runs from the
desk, using unbalanced TRS insert points, to a remote patchbay of send and
return patch holes. I'm not yet convinced that the money spent doubling up
the cables in this unbalanced situation would not be better spent on a nice
mic, comp or set of monitors.



Gareth.

[Scott Dorsey]

Gareth Magennis wrote:

The particular instance I was thinking of was the Insert cable runs from the
desk, using unbalanced TRS insert points, to a remote patchbay of send and
return patch holes. I'm not yet convinced that the money spent doubling up
the cables in this unbalanced situation would not be better spent on a nice
mic, comp or set of monitors.

What happens is that folks plug in cables into the insert with nothing
on the other end, bring the fader up, and they hear crosstalk. This is
because the input on the mixer is high-Z with no source on it, so even
a little capacitance allows leakage.

Plug the cables into something that is operating but not passing any signal,
and that crosstalk goes away.

That said, cable is cheap. The amount of money you save by not doubling-up
cables won't pay for much. Especially if you use one kind of cable for
everything and therefore get a quantity discount.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Rob Reedijk]

Mike Rivers wrote:
On Jan 7, 4:39 pm, "geoff" wrote:

Would make no difference at all, as long as the connections are the same at
each end.

Since the headphone cable is unshielded, there's no compelling reason
to use the mic cable shield as the common (sleeve) lead, but I think
everyone would intuitively do it that way.

You might want the shielding for the oppoosite problem. An unsheilded
headphone cable is more likely to bleed into the pickups of a guitar.
It has happened to me.

Rob R.

[Gareth Magennis]

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Gareth Magennis wrote:

The particular instance I was thinking of was the Insert cable runs from
the
desk, using unbalanced TRS insert points, to a remote patchbay of send
and
return patch holes. I'm not yet convinced that the money spent doubling
up
the cables in this unbalanced situation would not be better spent on a
nice
mic, comp or set of monitors.

What happens is that folks plug in cables into the insert with nothing
on the other end, bring the fader up, and they hear crosstalk. This is
because the input on the mixer is high-Z with no source on it, so even
a little capacitance allows leakage.

Plug the cables into something that is operating but not passing any
signal,
and that crosstalk goes away.




Yes, I remember once being surprised at how much crosstalk there was under
O/C conditions. Quite scary!



That said, cable is cheap. The amount of money you save by not
doubling-up
cables won't pay for much. Especially if you use one kind of cable for
everything and therefore get a quantity discount.
--scott



True, though I was thinking more of the costs of hiring the Wireman.
Prepping the (twice as many) cable ends with sleeving etc is what takes most
of the time.


Gareth.

[Richard Crowley]

"Soundhaspriority" wrote ...
"Lars Farm" wrote ...
What pin goes where? How would one solder TRS-Female-XLR and
XLR-TRS-Male adapter cables in order to use a mic cable as a headphone
cable? Run phones over a snake.

I would think you will have a tremendous amount of left-right crosstalk.

No, not enough to actually hear.

The two wires are twisted and unshielded with respect to each other.

But the impedances are low enough that it might only be a problem
if you were going thousands of feet. I've never heard any crosstalk,
even when listening to just one channel.

For that matter, headphone fanatics construct special circuits to
purposely introduce a bit of "crossfeed" when listening to headphones
to counteract the common "hole in the middle" effect.

Don't do it.

It has been done for decades. I've personally been doing it for decades.
I have absolutely no reservations recommending it heartily. It is a very
convienent way to extend headphone coverage.

The only potential pitfall is accidentally plugging the adapter into a
mic line with phantom power applied. It likely wouldn't ruin the
headphones, but it may give your eardrums a good POP if you
are wearing them at the moment.

[Roy W. Rising[_2_]]

(Scott Dorsey) wrote:
Mike Rivers wrote:
On Jan 7, 8:03 pm, Roy W. Rising
wrote:

Good answer, with one exception. Patchbay wiring usually ties the tip
to pin 2 and ring to pin 3.

Scott never got over the AES declaration that Pin 2 is hot.

It was too late. If you're going to declare a standard, you need to do
it before half the world is operating the other way.
--scott

Hmmm. Which half of the world, and when? Let's get some dates, here.
ABC-TV had a "tip-to-two" standard when I started there in '65. The Wiring
Standards sheet covered all connectors and wire types in use at the time.
It probably dated from the '50s. Much of the world had standardized on
XLR, while broadcasting still was using P3. ABC-TV dragged us through
system-wide conversion to UA in the late '60s, soon followed by conversion
to "XLR" (Switchcraft x3). Someone up there must have owned a bundle of
Cannon and Switchcraft stock!

--
~
~ Roy
"If you notice the sound, it's wrong!"

[Arny Krueger]

"Meindert Sprang" wrote in message
l.nl...
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..

Headphones have very low impedances. Consider a 32 ohm headphone hooked
to a 100' mic cable.

The signal wires in the mic cable are capacititvely coupled to each
other,
and that is the potential source of the problem. But as usual, its a
matter
of quantification.

The two wires are twisted and unshielded with respect to each other.

They will have a capacitance between them of about 35 pF per foot, or
3500
pF for the whole cable. At 20 KHz, the impedance between the two wires
is
about 2,273 ohms.

Imagine a voltage divider composed of 2,273 ohms in series with 32 ohms.

The
attenuation is about 40 dB. IOW, at 20 KHz the channel separation is
still
about 40 dB.

And while you have 32 ohms at one end of the cable, there is an amplifier
on
the other with with an even lower output impedance in parallel with the 32
ohm of the headphone

Good point. My analysis presumed that the load set the impedance of the
line, but the source impedance, which is usually even lower, obviously
controls a good bit of it.

Bottom line is that just about every headphone extension cable is
two-conductor shielded wire.

I know this all too well because I have to reterminate the one I have with a
3.5 mm jack on the end of it so often.

[Scott Dorsey]

Roy W. Rising wrote:
Hmmm. Which half of the world, and when? Let's get some dates, here.
ABC-TV had a "tip-to-two" standard when I started there in '65. The Wiring
Standards sheet covered all connectors and wire types in use at the time.

Everything shipped from Ampex was pin-3 hot, though ABC may have not cared
all that much about absolute phase at the time. Positive pressure on the
microphone diaphragm produces positive voltage on pin 3. Everything
shipped from Sennheiser was that way at the time (if it used XLRs). Don't
recall about MCI. I know Studer was pin 2 hot, so if you recorded a tape
on an Ampex and played it back on a Studer, pin 3 positive peaks on record
turned into pin 2 positive peaks on playback.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Richard Crowley]

"Soundhaspriority" wrote ...
Back in college, some group constructed a student music room. Some prof
had donated his LP collection. You'd tell the guy behind the desk what you
wanted, he would find it and spin it while you plugged phones into a jack
in a beautifully decorated "parlor." There were multiple feeds and
multiple jacks. There was one problem: crosstalk. This was a low impedance
setup, using Koss AA phones.

Are you talking about left-right crosstalk for the stereo program?
Or are you talking about crosstalk between different programs?
Either way, if there was noticable crosstalk, some other element
of malfunction, poor design, or execution of the installation was
likely responsible.

The room quickly fell into disuse, because of the crosstalk problem. But I
do understand that in live work, monitoring is usually compromised. I do
not think I'd want 20dB on unrelated program material. I don't think I'd
want it for live either, but I defer to your experience.

I've set up similar listening systems. With the same model
headphones, even. Never encountered the slightest issue
with crosstalk. Ever.

[Arny Krueger]

"Richard Crowley" wrote in message
...
"Soundhaspriority" wrote ...

Back in college, some group constructed a student music room. Some prof
had donated his LP collection. You'd tell the guy behind the desk what
you wanted, he would find it and spin it while you plugged phones into a
jack in a beautifully decorated "parlor." There were multiple feeds and
multiple jacks. There was one problem: crosstalk. This was a low
impedance setup, using Koss AA phones.

Are you talking about left-right crosstalk for the stereo program?
Or are you talking about crosstalk between different programs?
Either way, if there was noticable crosstalk, some other element
of malfunction, poor design, or execution of the installation was
likely responsible.

Agreed. We know next to nothing about the design or execution. For example,
one pair of headphones that lacked a proper ground could cause audible cross
talk.

The room quickly fell into disuse, because of the crosstalk problem. But
I do understand that in live work, monitoring is usually compromised. I
do not think I'd want 20dB on unrelated program material. I don't think
I'd want it for live either, but I defer to your experience.

I've set up similar listening systems. With the same model
headphones, even. Never encountered the slightest issue
with crosstalk. Ever.

Agreed.

[Geoff]

Gareth Magennis wrote:



Though if you are wiring a studio from scratch, you will need twice
the patchbay cable runs and almost twice the labour costs to
implement it. More than a few penn'orth for possibly very little
gain! (Which is really where my question is coming from)

Not to mention that channel inserts are often (universally ?) unbalanced RS
jacks.


geoff

[Geoff]

Scott Dorsey wrote:
Mike Rivers wrote:
On Jan 7, 8:03 pm, Roy W. Rising
wrote:

Good answer, with one exception. Patchbay wiring usually ties the
tip to pin 2 and ring to pin 3.

Scott never got over the AES declaration that Pin 2 is hot.

It was too late. If you're going to declare a standard, you need to
do it before half the world is operating the other way.


Half the world, or 1 or 2 significant manufacturers out of dozens ?

geoff

[Geoff]

Frank Stearns wrote:

Or their UI design folks making idiot, IDIOT *I D I O T* design
decisions such as removing the "save as" function from preset
windows. Now they have only "save" and "delete". Sure, you can
overwrite a function with SAVE if you remember the exact name, but if
don't and you scroll for it and select it, kablam!!! Your hard-won
new settings are gone, overwritten the old ones.

I don't ever recall a Save As. If you want to svae as a new name, you type
the new name in the title feild and hit Save.


geoff

[Frank Stearns]

"geoff" writes:

Frank Stearns wrote:

Or their UI design folks making idiot, IDIOT *I D I O T* design
decisions such as removing the "save as" function from preset
windows. Now they have only "save" and "delete". Sure, you can
overwrite a function with SAVE if you remember the exact name, but if
don't and you scroll for it and select it, kablam!!! Your hard-won
new settings are gone, overwritten the old ones.

I don't ever recall a Save As. If you want to svae as a new name, you type
the new name in the title feild and hit Save.

Yup, SF8 and previous versions.

Typing a new name name and hitting "save" is fine.

But that's only half the story (in my workflow, about 10% of the story).

If you want to OVERWRITE an existing preset (say you fined-tuned some params) and do
NOT want to lose the new settings to be saved, you're screwed if you don't remember
the name exactly -- or you're faced with a lot of unnecessary extra work, doing
things that the machine should do, and as it DID DO before SaveAs was removed.

The irony is that this appears to be systemic in SF9. You can "cross use" processing
functions between SF8 and 9. Exact same plug-in code in 8 has SaveAs; when rendered
in 9 SaveAs is gone.

You can make an argument to remove an obscure function from the UI, but removing
something as basic and utilitarian SaveAs is just plain dumb.

Frank Stearns
Mobile Audio
--

[Roy W. Rising[_2_]]

(Scott Dorsey) wrote:
Roy W. Rising wrote:
Hmmm. Which half of the world, and when? Let's get some dates, here.
ABC-TV had a "tip-to-two" standard when I started there in '65. The
Wiring Standards sheet covered all connectors and wire types in use at
the time.

Everything shipped from Ampex was pin-3 hot, though ABC may have not
cared all that much about absolute phase at the time. Positive pressure
on the microphone diaphragm produces positive voltage on pin 3.
Everything shipped from Sennheiser was that way at the time (if it used
XLRs). Don't recall about MCI. I know Studer was pin 2 hot, so if you
recorded a tape on an Ampex and played it back on a Studer, pin 3
positive peaks on record turned into pin 2 positive peaks on playback.
--scott

Thanks, Scott.

--
~
~ Roy
"If you notice the sound, it's wrong!"

[Mike Rivers]

On Jan 8, 9:45 am, Rob Reedijk wrote:
Mike Rivers wrote:

You might want the shielding for the oppoosite problem. An unsheilded
headphone cable is more likely to bleed into the pickups of a guitar.
It has happened to me.

And did shielded cable fix it? I can see (with a good imagination, on
a clear day) some magnetic inductive pickup, but most cable shields
aren't terribly good magnetic shields.

[Scott Dorsey]

geoff wrote:
Gareth Magennis wrote:

Though if you are wiring a studio from scratch, you will need twice
the patchbay cable runs and almost twice the labour costs to
implement it. More than a few penn'orth for possibly very little
gain! (Which is really where my question is coming from)

Not to mention that channel inserts are often (universally ?) unbalanced RS
jacks.

This seems to be the case on all the semi-pro consoles these days, but
most older consoles and many of the current professional consoles use
two XLR connectors for balanced inserts. This is usually accompanied
by a button on the channel strip to enable or bypass the insert, which
is an amazingly wonderful thing that makes your life much easier when
one channel is being used for two different things.

I'm not sure where the goofy single-TRS thing came from... the first time
I ever saw it was on a Mackie console although folks tell me it predates
Mackie by a bit.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."