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#41
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Mikrofonen.se ripped me off
On Jan 26, 8:03*pm, Ty Ford wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jan 2009 10:40:25 -0500, Peter Larsen wrote (in article ): Ty Ford wrote: On Mon, 26 Jan 2009 09:31:33 -0500, 5016 wrote (in article ): Thank you for bringing Mikrofonen.se to my attention. I will give them my business in future. I am impressed with the highly professional way that they deal with wackos. Say "Hi" to your brother for me. Ty, it appears credible that the guy was in good faith because he re-used the factory marketing, a less confrontational approach might (have) work(ed) better by. However as it is you really need to take it to Microtech-Gefell (that was the brand it was about, right?) for a comment from them, they might well find it in their interest to obtain a solution. Ty Ford * Kind regards * Peter Larsen Peter, That may be the way to go. I have always had good relations with the home office since the first Gefell hit the US after the wall came down. He or someone copied and pasted the page and added it to his site. In doing so he violated the copyright. At times I've taken a one of my own published reviews to Kinko's or Office Depot to get a color photocopy. Each time I do, I am told by the person behind the counter that copying the page is a violation of copyright. When I prove to them that I am the author, they say we'll they'll make one copy for me. I do take issue with your characterization that I was confrontational. You didn't actually post the initial emails that you sent the guy. Given how bad the ones that you *did* post looked, I'm not surprised. Since that time, you've been asking if anyone in this newsgroup knows someone who will go over there and beat the money out of him for you. I don't know how to characterize your behavior as other than confrontational. Frankly, if I was him I would report you to your local police. I simply asked for payment one way or the other. It was when he started back-pedaling and trying to not take responsibility for his action that I moved. Many people think it's just fine to use others intellectual property without any thought to the consequences. It's not OK. Regards, Ty Ford PS: My offer for an m296 in trade is still on the table, but as of today, I have heard nothing from him. Surprise surprise. --Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services Acting and Voiceover Demoshttp://www.tyford.com Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWaPRHMGhGA- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - |
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#43
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Mikrofonen.se ripped me off
WillStG wrote: BTW Ty - Håkan is a Gefell distributor, and Gefell says they have permission from Mix Magazine - who paid you for the review I guess - to reprint the text of your review, That gives Gefell the right but not automatically their distributors. Graham |
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#44
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Mikrofonen.se ripped me off
5016 wrote: Also, you don't get to make up any charge you want for someone who has already used your stuff. If it's reasonable, yes you do. Graham |
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#45
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Mikrofonen.se ripped me off
"Eeyore" wrote in message
... 5016 wrote: Also, you don't get to make up any charge you want for someone who has already used your stuff. If it's reasonable, yes you do. I once published copyrighted material on my website. The copyright owner, an American organization, did not charge me as a first reaction. Instead, they told me I was violating copyright laws and asked me to take it down. It is, in my belief, very common practise to give the offending party a change to correct its mistake first before charging/sueing. Just my 2ct. Meindert |
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#46
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Mikrofonen.se ripped me off
Meindert Sprang wrote: "Eeyore" wrote in message ... 5016 wrote: Also, you don't get to make up any charge you want for someone who has already used your stuff. If it's reasonable, yes you do. I once published copyrighted material on my website. The copyright owner, an American organization, did not charge me as a first reaction. Instead, they told me I was violating copyright laws and asked me to take it down. It is, in my belief, very common practise to give the offending party a change to correct its mistake first before charging/sueing. Just my 2ct. Meindert apparently Ty likes the shoot first and ask questions later approach, no benefit of doubt or opportunity for discussion. So I reach out to them with my usual response. Nothing rude. Just the facts. Just business. "Hello, You are using my copyrighted review of the Gefell Mics on your site. License fees for use are $250USD for one year and $350USD in perpetuity. Which do you prefer. Regards, Ty Ford" |
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#47
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Mikrofonen.se ripped me off
On Mon, 26 Jan 2009 20:30:55 -0500, 5016 wrote
(in article ): You didn't actually post the initial emails that you sent the guy. Given how bad the ones that you *did* post looked, I'm not surprised. Since that time, you've been asking if anyone in this newsgroup knows someone who will go over there and beat the money out of him for you. I don't know how to characterize your behavior as other than confrontational. Frankly, if I was him I would report you to your local police. That's an amazingly creative mischaracterization of my comment. Please step away from the crack pipe and see your local doctor or begin writing Stephen King novels at once.  Regards, Ty Ford PS: You should bottle that stuff and sell it. --Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWaPRHMGhGA |
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#48
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Mikrofonen.se ripped me off
On Mon, 26 Jan 2009 22:00:00 -0500, Eeyore wrote
(in article ): You could find his host (details below from IP addresss of 194.236.32.162 derived from a traceroute) and request the account be terminated for illegal activity. Check their terms and conditions. Swedes usually speak better English than Americans btw. ;~) http://www.space2u.com/?lang=eng&PHP...np09rurp9cdlr3 http://www.space2u.com/kontakt.php inetnum: 194.236.32.0 - 194.236.32.255 netname: SE-SPACE2U descr: Space2u Webhosting AB org: ORG-SWA2-RIPE country: SE admin-c: AL3936-RIPE tech-c: TW3344-RIPE status: ASSIGNED PA mnt-by: TELIANET-LIR source: RIPE # Filtered organisation: ORG-SWA2-RIPE org-name: Space2u Webhosting AB org-type: OTHER descr: Webhosting address: Klockarvagen 35 address: 87030 Nordingra address: Sverige phone: +46613722550 fax-no: +46613722560 e-mail: admin-c: AL3936-RIPE tech-c: TW3344-RIPE mnt-by: TELIANET-LIR mnt-ref: TELIANET-LIR source: RIPE # Filtered person: Anders Lundholm address: Space2u Webhosting AB address: Klockarvägen 35 address: S-87030 Nordingrå address: Sweden phone: +46 613 722550 fax-no: +46 613 722560 e-mail: e-mail: e-mail: nic-hdl: AL3936-RIPE source: RIPE # Filtered person: Tomas Westin address: Klockarvägen 35 address: 87030 Nordingrå address: Sweden phone: +46-613-722559 e-mail: nic-hdl: TW3344-RIPE source: RIPE # Filtered % Information related to '194.236.0.0/15AS3301' route: 194.236.0.0/15 descr: TELIANET-BLK origin: AS3301 mnt-by: TELIANET-RR source: RIPE # Filtered Graham Damn Graham, You're good. And yes, this particular Swede speaks better English that most of us here in the US. He gets a nod from me on that, but it doesn't take away the offense. Regards, Ty Ford --Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWaPRHMGhGA |
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#49
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Mikrofonen.se ripped me off
On Mon, 26 Jan 2009 22:02:12 -0500, Eeyore wrote
(in article ): WillStG wrote: BTW Ty - Håkan is a Gefell distributor, and Gefell says they have permission from Mix Magazine - who paid you for the review I guess - to reprint the text of your review, That gives Gefell the right but not automatically their distributors. Graham Exactly. Plus my deal with MIX was that MIX could spread it around but if it went outside, meaning outside of any MIX publication, that fees would be due me, not them. Perhaps we'll all learn something from this. That Woody Guthrie line about being robbed by a fountain pen is in my head, only in this case it was a computer mouse. Regards, Ty Ford --Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWaPRHMGhGA |
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#50
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Mikrofonen.se ripped me off
On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 03:14:35 -0500, Meindert Sprang wrote
(in article ): "Eeyore" wrote in message ... 5016 wrote: Also, you don't get to make up any charge you want for someone who has already used your stuff. If it's reasonable, yes you do. I once published copyrighted material on my website. The copyright owner, an American organization, did not charge me as a first reaction. Instead, they told me I was violating copyright laws and asked me to take it down. It is, in my belief, very common practise to give the offending party a change to correct its mistake first before charging/sueing. Just my 2ct. Meindert Was it in Persia that they cut off the hands of people who steal? Regards, Ty Ford --Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWaPRHMGhGA |
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#51
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Mikrofonen.se ripped me off
"Ty Ford" wrote ...
Was it in Persia that they cut off the hands of people who steal? It is Sharia Law and commonly practiced to this day in the hard- core Muslim countries. My medical friends report that in rich Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia, they schedule you for surgery in a sterile operating room. But traditionally it was just a sword and a stump (the cutoff end of the tree, and the remains of your arm, as well.) Apparently there is video on YouTube if one is that morbidly curious. |
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#52
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Mikrofonen.se ripped me off
Richard Crowley wrote:
"Ty Ford" wrote ... Was it in Persia that they cut off the hands of people who steal? It is Sharia Law and commonly practiced to this day in the hard- core Muslim countries. My medical friends report that in rich Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia, they schedule you for surgery in a sterile operating room. But traditionally it was just a sword and a stump (the cutoff end of the tree, and the remains of your arm, as well.) Apparently there is video on YouTube if one is that morbidly curious. Yeah, YouTube, the greatest invention of all time. Now we can all be barbarians. |
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#53
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Mikrofonen.se ripped me off
Ty Ford wrote:
That Woody Guthrie line about being robbed by a fountain pen is in my head, only in this case it was a computer mouse. What's in the fine print? Might be a fountain pen after all. g -- ha shut up and play your guitar |
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#54
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Mikrofonen.se ripped me off
Ty Ford wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 03:14:35 -0500, Meindert Sprang wrote (in article ): "Eeyore" wrote in message ... 5016 wrote: Also, you don't get to make up any charge you want for someone who has already used your stuff. If it's reasonable, yes you do. I once published copyrighted material on my website. The copyright owner, an American organization, did not charge me as a first reaction. Instead, they told me I was violating copyright laws and asked me to take it down. It is, in my belief, very common practise to give the offending party a change to correct its mistake first before charging/sueing. Just my 2ct. Meindert Was it in Persia that they cut off the hands of people who steal? Several cultures have invoked such. However, one had best be 100% certain one is chopping off the hand belonging to the thief. -- ha shut up and play your guitar |
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#56
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Mikrofonen.se ripped me off
"Richard Crowley" wrote
"Ty Ford" wrote ... Was it in Persia that they cut off the hands of people who steal? It is Sharia Law and commonly practiced to this day in the hard- core Muslim countries. My medical friends report that in rich Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia, they schedule you for surgery in a sterile operating room. But traditionally it was just a sword and a stump (the cutoff end of the tree, and the remains of your arm, as well.) That is similar to one hard-core christian country I've heard about, where they kill killers. They used to hang, shoot or electrocute them, but this day and age they just gas them or inject them with some sort of cost-effective poison in a sterile environment... Sigurd |
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#57
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Mikrofonen.se ripped me off
"Sigurd Stenersen" wrote ...
"Richard Crowley" wrote "Ty Ford" wrote ... Was it in Persia that they cut off the hands of people who steal? It is Sharia Law and commonly practiced to this day in the hard- core Muslim countries. My medical friends report that in rich Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia, they schedule you for surgery in a sterile operating room. But traditionally it was just a sword and a stump (the cutoff end of the tree, and the remains of your arm, as well.) That is similar to one hard-core christian country I've heard about, where they kill killers. They used to hang, shoot or electrocute them, but this day and age they just gas them or inject them with some sort of cost-effective poison in a sterile environment... What's your address? Maybe we can just relocate them to your neighborhood. Will that make you happy? |
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#58
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Mikrofonen.se ripped me off
"Richard Crowley" wrote
"Sigurd Stenersen" wrote ... "Richard Crowley" wrote "Ty Ford" wrote ... Was it in Persia that they cut off the hands of people who steal? It is Sharia Law and commonly practiced to this day in the hard- core Muslim countries. My medical friends report that in rich Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia, they schedule you for surgery in a sterile operating room. But traditionally it was just a sword and a stump (the cutoff end of the tree, and the remains of your arm, as well.) That is similar to one hard-core christian country I've heard about, where they kill killers. They used to hang, shoot or electrocute them, but this day and age they just gas them or inject them with some sort of cost-effective poison in a sterile environment... What's your address? Maybe we can just relocate them to your neighborhood. Will that make you happy? I was just pointing out that your country is just as primitive in this respect as those you refer to as "hard-core Muslim countries". I live in a country that doesn't have the death penalty. We don't have many murders either. We don't keep a lot of people in jail. We don't keep anybody in jail for a long time. And we don't have much crime. Yet, somehow it's okay for you talk to me like your system is the best, and somehow it's okay for you to refer to other countries as "hard-core" religious. Sigurd |
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#59
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Mikrofonen.se ripped me off
Sigurd Stenersen wrote:
"Richard Crowley" wrote "Sigurd Stenersen" wrote ... "Richard Crowley" wrote "Ty Ford" wrote ... Was it in Persia that they cut off the hands of people who steal? It is Sharia Law and commonly practiced to this day in the hard- core Muslim countries. My medical friends report that in rich Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia, they schedule you for surgery in a sterile operating room. But traditionally it was just a sword and a stump (the cutoff end of the tree, and the remains of your arm, as well.) That is similar to one hard-core christian country I've heard about, where they kill killers. They used to hang, shoot or electrocute them, but this day and age they just gas them or inject them with some sort of cost-effective poison in a sterile environment... What's your address? Maybe we can just relocate them to your neighborhood. Will that make you happy? I was just pointing out that your country is just as primitive in this respect as those you refer to as "hard-core Muslim countries". I live in a country that doesn't have the death penalty. We don't have many murders either. We don't keep a lot of people in jail. We don't keep anybody in jail for a long time. And we don't have much crime. Yet, somehow it's okay for you talk to me like your system is the best, and somehow it's okay for you to refer to other countries as "hard-core" religious. Meanwhile, the US incarcerates the largest percentage of its population of any nation on earth. This, in "the land of the free". You'd think we'd be game for some selfexamination around this but oh, no, it's just a lot of name calling and finger pointing, hoping the "blame" will stick somewhere not very close to home. Yet home is where the trouble lies and we will not progress untill we grow some courage to consider the flaws in our own system. -- ha shut up and play your guitar |
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#61
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Mikrofonen.se ripped me off
Frank Stearns wrote:
And while Sweden, Demark, Belgium, et al are lovely countries, many are homogenious cultures (at least way more than the USA) Belgium??? Good grief... In the old days of East Germany, there was a region around the city of Dresden where they couldn't receive West-German television. All they got to see was their own propaganda. This area used to be known as the valley of the clueless. There must still be some much bigger valley of the clueless, some 3000 miles further to the West. Ralf -- Ralf R. Radermacher - DL9KCG - Köln/Cologne, Germany private homepage: http://www.fotoralf.de manual cameras and photo galleries - updated Jan. 10, 2005 Contarex - Kiev 60 - Horizon 202 - P6 mount lenses |
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#62
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Mikrofonen.se ripped me off
I wrote
I was just pointing out that your country is just as primitive in this respect as those you refer to as "hard-core Muslim countries". I live in a country that doesn't have the death penalty. We don't have many murders either. We don't keep a lot of people in jail. We don't keep anybody in jail for a long time. And we don't have much crime. Yet, somehow it's okay for you talk to me like your system is the best, and somehow it's okay for you to refer to other countries as "hard-core" religious. "Richard Crowley" wrote Lets swap Mexico for one of your neighbors and see how that goes. Are you saying that you only kill Mexican killers ? It's interesting to see how you choose to be the "victim" when trying to justify your hard-core religious killing system. Also, if religious righteous Whitey himself would stop hiring illegal aliens to save a buck then most of the illegal aliens would not come in the first place. Sigurd |
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#63
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Mikrofonen.se ripped me off
Richard Crowley wrote:
"Sigurd Stenersen" wrote ... I live in a country that doesn't have the death penalty. We don't have many murders either. We don't keep a lot of people in jail. Lets swap Mexico for one of your neighbors and see how that goes. All the US has to do is let people do drugs in peace. Paul P |
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#64
Posted to rec.audio.pro,aus.hi-fi,aus.politics.guns,rec.audio.tubes
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Mikrofonen.se ripped me off
Path:
uni-berlin.de!fu-berlin.de!postnews.google.com!news1.google.com!npe er03. iad.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!feed-me.highwinds-media ..com!cyclone1.gnilink.net!gnilink.net!nx02.iad.ne wshosting.com!newshosti ng.com!post01.iad!news.buzzardnews.com!not-for-mail User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.4.0.080122 Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 13:48:31 +1000 Subject: Mikrofonen.se ripped me off From: Soundhaspriority Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro,aus.hi-fi,aus.politics.guns,rec.audio.tubes Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Mikrofonen.se ripped me off Thread-Index: AcmA+0kzh4uPtuzuEd2CbAARJDMMbA== References: ET X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com Mime-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Lines: 66 X-Complaints-To: aus.politics.guns:89288 rec.audio.tubes:341102 wrote: He's not THAT GOOD! DANCE YOU ****ING MONKEY, DANCE! The breath of the buzzard's butthole wafts across Usenet. -- ha shut up and play your guitar |
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#65
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Mikrofonen.se ripped me off
"Frank Stearns" wrote in message
. .. Remove the illegal non-citizens from US prisons (some 30+%) and suddenly our incarceration rate falls quite a bit. Still problems, still societal ills to address, but they're a little more in perspective with this factor in mind. Umm, no. According to justice department figures, in 2005 a total of 6.4% of the nation's prison population (state and federal) were noncitizens. That includes both legal and illegal immigrants. In 2003 the percent of noncitizens in the population as a whole was 6.9%. Things are different in federal and state prisons. In federal prisons the 2005 figure was 20%, primarily because iimigration violations are federal, not state crimes. In state prisons the figure was around 4.6%. Put them together and the total is 6.4%. Not a huge number. Far more important in filling up the nation's prisons are the drug laws. The data came from this story, which includes a link to the Justice Dept. document: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/30/bu...0leonside.html Peace, Paul |
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#66
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Mikrofonen.se ripped me off
Frank Stearns wrote:
And while Sweden, Demark, Belgium, et al are lovely countries, many are homogenious cultures (at least way more than the USA) -- and from that uniformity there's not quite the same number and scope of societal "tensions" that exist here in the USA. The quality of cars has dropped recently, cars seem to spontanely self-combust. And there are city areas where ambulances do not go without police escort. Frank Stearns Mobile Audio Kind regards Peter Larsen |
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#67
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Mikrofonen.se ripped me off
Ty Ford wrote:
I do take issue with your characterization that I was confrontational. I simply asked for payment one way or the other. It was when he started back-pedaling and trying to not take responsibility for his action that I moved. You could have asked him "who gave you the permit to use my material" and taken it from there. It's like opening a CD, it is easiest to find the "pull here" tab ... O;-) ... there are many ways to open a can of lutfisk. You did not get the result you wanted from approaching him on this, so you need to accept that you did not do it in the optimal manner. The optimum result had been that he had volunteered to somehow compensate you, one of the ways - just early morning iskias clouded thinking - could be by explaining the issue on his site and linking to yours. That would convey a more positive image than him removing it and replacing it with the text of the cease and desist I have to assume that you sent him and an explanation to the fact that he just used the brands marketing material like its factory does it and now got a bill from some strange guy in the US. Many people think it's just fine to use others intellectual property without any thought to the consequences. It's not OK. I didn't say it that it is, I happen to own some copyright that should lead to me getting paid pr. photocopy schools make of some books. It so does to some extent. The swedes are a ""backward"" people btw. - they still have a bit of viking-age, possibly bronze age, law in place. In most countries you can probihit acess to land you own, in Sweden you can not so do. You can prohibit acess to the lawn in between the farm buildings, but not the the fields and the forest. You must respect things, and take care not to damage crops and land, but there everybody have a right of traffic. Not of dwelling and not of invading your privacy but you can hike freely all over the country. You should go there some day. They have also been influenced by the yellowstone forest restoration project .... using wolfs to control the forest eating herbivores ... in spite of having to regulate the hunt on herbivores to keep their humber up. Which is to say that they have re-introduced wolves and bears passively and actively. Seems like the memory of why the wolves ended up hunted by an entire village has been lost .... imo they have too dense a population for that idea to be sane. We have tried to beat some sense into them several times over at least the last couple of thousand years, with varying luck, and now we have a bridge in place and are invading and fight them in (and at) soccer only. And in Malmoe they have as much or worse problems in Rosengaard as we have in Noerrebro here in Copenhagen. Ty Ford Kind regards Peter Larsen |
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#68
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Mikrofonen.se ripped me off
"Ty Ford" wrote in message
al.NET... Was it in Persia that they cut off the hands of people who steal? Yes, just like it was in the USA 200 years ago, where they shot or hung people who stole horses or cattle. Luckily cultures have evolved and became more civilised in many ways and places. Shame that some people couldn't manage to keep up with the progress... Meindert |
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#69
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Mikrofonen.se ripped me off
"Meindert Sprang" wrote in message ... "Ty Ford" wrote in message al.NET... Was it in Persia that they cut off the hands of people who steal? Yes, just like it was in the USA 200 years ago, where they shot or hung people who stole horses or cattle. Luckily cultures have evolved and became more civilised in many ways and places. Shame that some people couldn't manage to keep up with the progress... Meindert mostly since having a horse is no longer the diffrence between life and death that it once was g |
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#70
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Mikrofonen.se ripped me off
On 27/01/09 23:26, in article
nacquisition, "Frank Stearns" wrote: (...) And while Sweden, Demark, Belgium, et al are lovely countries, many are homogenious cultures (at least way more than the USA) -- and from that uniformity there's not quite the same number and scope of societal "tensions" that exist here in the USA. Belgium? Homogenous? No tensions? Wow! What fairytale book did you read that in? -- Joe Kotroczo |
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#71
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Mikrofonen.se ripped me off
George's Pro Sound Company wrote:
Yes, just like it was in the USA 200 years ago, where they shot or hung people who stole horses or cattle. Luckily cultures have evolved and became more civilised in many ways and places. Shame that some people couldn't manage to keep up with the progress... Meindert mostly since having a horse is no longer the diffrence between life and death that it once was George, as for the difference in gravity of the crime it is fair (x), but Meinderts point is that too strong punishments are contra-productive. The usual example is that simple crimes were punished by hanging in Elizabethian UK, which led to additional crimes coming at no extra cost for the criminal. (x) I happen to think that it is also a crime against the horse, not just against the owner ... The states in the US that have a adopted the "3 strikes and you're out" policy regarding felonies have a similar problem. If it is life without parole for the third, then it really doesn't matter much for the criminal who choses to continue what kind of crimes are done after the second conviction, he's a lifer anyway, so most of the deterrrent is taken out rom the system. Another issue is that what you put into people is what you get out of them. Consequently it is a primary requiremt that the "system of correction" is designed to prevent crime becoming a career. Just hitting people on the head with a book of law is not gonna repair them, it is required that they learn to live different lives. A harsh system just teaches people to be harsh ... it is a vicious cycle that needs to be broken. g Kind regards Peter Larsen |
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#72
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Mikrofonen.se ripped me off
"Peter Larsen" wrote in message ... George's Pro Sound Company wrote: Yes, just like it was in the USA 200 years ago, where they shot or hung people who stole horses or cattle. Luckily cultures have evolved and became more civilised in many ways and places. Shame that some people couldn't manage to keep up with the progress... Meindert mostly since having a horse is no longer the diffrence between life and death that it once was George, as for the difference in gravity of the crime it is fair (x), but Meinderts point is that too strong punishments are contra-productive. The usual example is that simple crimes were punished by hanging in Elizabethian UK, which led to additional crimes coming at no extra cost for the criminal. (x) I happen to think that it is also a crime against the horse, not just against the owner ... The states in the US that have a adopted the "3 strikes and you're out" policy regarding felonies have a similar problem. If it is life without parole for the third, then it really doesn't matter much for the criminal who choses to continue what kind of crimes are done after the second conviction, he's a lifer anyway, so most of the deterrrent is taken out rom the system. Another issue is that what you put into people is what you get out of them. Consequently it is a primary requiremt that the "system of correction" is designed to prevent crime becoming a career. Just hitting people on the head with a book of law is not gonna repair them, it is required that they learn to live different lives. A harsh system just teaches people to be harsh ... it is a vicious cycle that needs to be broken. g Kind regards Peter Larsen Trust me Peter I know all that my A1 was just put back away for 2 years for parole violation I worked very hard to teach him a better crime free life but the life of hard work and delayed satisafaction was not as much fun as his choosen life style, and I guess there was nothing I coulddo to get him to see that g |
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#73
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Mikrofonen.se ripped me off
On Jan 27, 4:05 pm, "Sigurd Stenersen" wrote:
"Richard Crowley" wrote "Sigurd Stenersen" wrote ... "Richard Crowley" wrote "Ty Ford" wrote ... Was it in Persia that they cut off the hands of people who steal? It is Sharia Law and commonly practiced to this day in the hard- core Muslim countries. My medical friends report that in rich Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia, they schedule you for surgery in a sterile operating room. But traditionally it was just a sword and a stump (the cutoff end of the tree, and the remains of your arm, as well.) That is similar to one hard-core christian country I've heard about, where they kill killers. They used to hang, shoot or electrocute them, but this day and age they just gas them or inject them with some sort of cost-effective poison in a sterile environment... What's your address? Maybe we can just relocate them to your neighborhood. Will that make you happy? I was just pointing out that your country is just as primitive in this respect as those you refer to as "hard-core Muslim countries". I live in a country that doesn't have the death penalty. We don't have many murders either. We don't keep a lot of people in jail. We don't keep anybody in jail for a long time. And we don't have much crime. Yet, somehow it's okay for you talk to me like your system is the best, and somehow it's okay for you to refer to other countries as "hard-core" religious. Sigurd People who live in what were once all white neighborhoods here in the US used to have your attidude as well. "These are problems for "Those people", we are way better than they over here. " Well my friend, the problems of this world will seek you and your family out in your neighborhood eventually. Especially if you have the attitude that "It can't happen here." You should really be thinking, "There but for the grace of God go I." As for hand chopping thieves, that is a violation of the Principle of "An Eye For An Eye" - Lex Talonis if you will. "An Eye for an Eye" is the principle behind _limiting_ liability. It's not about exacting vengance, and in fact there are no Old Testament laws that allow injuring someone's eye if they injured yours. Financial restitution or labor would be fair if that's what was taken, but a hand is unfair - at least, that's how "People of the book" should see it. Yeah, I digress. But I was writing a Lyle Lovett goes to Church with Buddy Miller kinda tune the other morning, and I had to research a line in the song... Will Miho NY TV/Audio Post/Music/Live Sound Guy "The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits |
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#74
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Mikrofonen.se ripped me off
"WillStG" wrote
On Jan 27, 4:05 pm, "Sigurd Stenersen" wrote: I live in a country that doesn't have the death penalty. We don't have many murders either. We don't keep a lot of people in jail. We don't keep anybody in jail for a long time. And we don't have much crime. People who live in what were once all white neighborhoods here in the US used to have your attidude as well. I'm not talking about my attitude. I'm talking about the difference between two systems - one that works pretty well and one that doesn't. "These are problems for "Those people", we are way better than they over here. " Well my friend, the problems of this world will seek you and your family out in your neighborhood eventually. Especially if you have the attitude that "It can't happen here." You should really be thinking, "There but for the grace of God go I." I'm not disputing that you have problems. I'm simply pointing out that your system for taking care of those problems is not working. On the contrary, it seems to make things worse. Sigurd |
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#75
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Mikrofonen.se ripped me off
On Jan 31, 8:34 am, "Sigurd Stenersen" wrote:
"WillStG" wrote On Jan 27, 4:05 pm, "Sigurd Stenersen" wrote: I live in a country that doesn't have the death penalty. We don't have many murders either. We don't keep a lot of people in jail. We don't keep anybody in jail for a long time. And we don't have much crime. People who live in what were once all white neighborhoods here in the US used to have your attidude as well. I'm not talking about my attitude. I'm talking about the difference between two systems - one that works pretty well and one that doesn't. Well I'm talking about your attitude. And again you express your opinion of possessing moral and social superiority. But in fact you only have your Swedish society now _because_ we Americans had no problem with the death penalty - with killing the Nazis who walked all over you in the not so distant past. "These are problems for "Those people", we are way better than they over here. " Well my friend, the problems of this world will seek you and your family out in your neighborhood eventually. Especially if you have the attitude that "It can't happen here." You should really be thinking, "There but for the grace of God go I." I'm not disputing that you have problems. I'm simply pointing out that your system for taking care of those problems is not working. On the contrary, it seems to make things worse. Sigurd What you are simply doing is sitting on your high horse and judging Americans for having problems you in fact do have as well, but in a lesser measure. Therefore you proclaim that our pot would be less black, if we were only more like your kettle. But this does not prove the superiority of your society and legal system and you simply do not know what measures your fellow Countrymen might enact into law if you had the same degree of problems we have. But most offensively, you criticized American laws and Religion as being worse - in your estimation - than Islamic Sharia Law. Not merely a claim of moral equivalency between the Death penalty for murderers and cutting off the hands of theives - in fact you claim we are worse. While the death penalty may be extreme, it is certainly roughly equivalent to the crimes commited by say, a serial killer or Nazi Commandant at Dachau; but cutting off a hand for a stealing bread or money is unjust. However given your arrogance, the stupidity and offensive nature of your comments are not surprising. Will Miho NY TV/Audio Post/Music/Live Sound Guy "The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits |
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#76
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Mikrofonen.se ripped me off
"WillStG" wrote
On Jan 31, 8:34 am, "Sigurd Stenersen" wrote: "WillStG" wrote On Jan 27, 4:05 pm, "Sigurd Stenersen" wrote: I live in a country that doesn't have the death penalty. We don't have many murders either. We don't keep a lot of people in jail. We don't keep anybody in jail for a long time. And we don't have much crime. People who live in what were once all white neighborhoods here in the US used to have your attidude as well. I'm not talking about my attitude. I'm talking about the difference between two systems - one that works pretty well and one that doesn't. Well I'm talking about your attitude. And again you express your opinion of possessing moral and social superiority. Huh ? If somebody has an opinion about the effect of two systems for dealing with crime, and this opinion differs from your, that person has an opinion of possessing moral and social superiority ? But in fact you only have your Swedish society now _because_ we Americans had no problem with the death penalty - with killing the Nazis who walked all over you in the not so distant past. I am not Swedish. I don't live in Sweden. The Nazis didn't walk all over the Swedish. The Americans got involved in WW2 only to protect their own interests. Without the Americans the Nazis would have won, so most of us are grateful that they did got involved. However, many people from many countries killed Nazis and that has nothing to do with the death penalty for regular crime. But most offensively, you criticized American laws and Religion as being worse - in your estimation - than Islamic Sharia Law. When did I do that ? I never "estimated" one being worse than the other. To me they both seem cruel and primitive. I responded to a post from what appears to be a typical, narrow-minded American, that was criticizing what he called a "hard core" religion that allows a country to chop off hands as if that somehow lacks the glory of effectively chopping off heads. Not merely a claim of moral equivalency between the Death penalty for murderers and cutting off the hands of theives - in fact you claim we are worse. When did I do that ? While the death penalty may be extreme, it is certainly roughly equivalent to the crimes commited by say, a serial killer or Nazi Commandant at Dachau; but cutting off a hand for a stealing bread or money is unjust. All countries, including the US, have different laws for crimes committed during a war. Most countries have a death penalty as well, in this context. If you're unable to see the difference, you have a problem. The message from your system is that "Killing is wrong, so if you kill someone we'll kill you right back." The stupidity of that aside - does killing killers really, in your eyes, seem to help when you look at your society as a whole ? However given your arrogance, the stupidity and offensive nature of your comments are not surprising. Thanks. Sigurd |
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#77
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Mikrofonen.se ripped me off
"Sigurd Stenersen" wrote in message news  "WillStG" wrote On Jan 31, 8:34 am, "Sigurd Stenersen" wrote: "WillStG" wrote On Jan 27, 4:05 pm, "Sigurd Stenersen" wrote: But in fact you only have your Swedish society now _because_ we Americans had no problem with the death penalty - with killing the Nazis who walked all over you in the not so distant past. I am not Swedish. I don't live in Sweden. The Nazis didn't walk all over the Swedish. The Americans got involved in WW2 only to protect their own interests. Without the Americans the Nazis would have won, so most of us are grateful that they did got involved. However, many people from many countries killed Nazis and that has nothing to do with the death penalty for regular crime. But most offensively, you criticized American laws and Religion as being worse - in your estimation - than Islamic Sharia Law. When did I do that ? I never "estimated" one being worse than the other. To me they both seem cruel and primitive. I responded to a post from what appears to be a typical, narrow-minded American, that was criticizing what he called a "hard core" religion that allows a country to chop off hands as if that somehow lacks the glory of effectively chopping off heads. Not merely a claim of moral equivalency between the Death penalty for murderers and cutting off the hands of theives - in fact you claim we are worse. When did I do that ? While the death penalty may be extreme, it is certainly roughly equivalent to the crimes commited by say, a serial killer or Nazi Commandant at Dachau; but cutting off a hand for a stealing bread or money is unjust. All countries, including the US, have different laws for crimes committed during a war. Most countries have a death penalty as well, in this context. If you're unable to see the difference, you have a problem. The message from your system is that "Killing is wrong, so if you kill someone we'll kill you right back." The stupidity of that aside - does killing killers really, in your eyes, seem to help when you look at your society as a whole ? However given your arrogance, the stupidity and offensive nature of your comments are not surprising. Thanks. Sigurd Will routinely accuses one of things one never said or implied, uses big words with capital letters indiscriminately, compares everything to Nazi Germany and generally uses all kinds of diversionary techniques. It's all quite predictable, but what else can one do when attempting to morally justify the unjustifiable? You are dealing with a person who used to tirelessly defend killing of the civilians in the Middle East, arguing that it's their fault for putting themselves "in harm's way". You can't expect such a person to show any compassion for convicted criminals. He used to be capable of restraining himself from firing personal insults when running out of tricks, but times are tough for the individuals who have built their entire sense of identity around the idea of being citizens of the world's greatest nation, superior in every sense. So nowadays "all options are on the table". His favourite method of obfuscating matters is assuming your nationality and accusing you of any collective historic burdens he can think of. It's incredibly lame, but it also turns the discussion into a moot point and prevents him from percieving it as a defeat. In this case he assumed you were Swedish and, apart from the mandatory Nazi Germany routine, it basically left him without ammo, hence the nervousness. Predrag |
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#78
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Mikrofonen.se ripped me off
On Jan 31, 11:21 am, "Sigurd Stenersen"
wrote: Without the Americans the Nazis would have won, so most of us are grateful that they did got involved. However, many people from many countries killed Nazis and that has nothing to do with the death penalty for regular crime. My point Sigurd is that death as a legal remedy is hardly the equivalent of taking a hand for theft. Primitive yes, but there are times it is appropriate. Even Ghandhi said that as primitive as such things are, if the choice is between Cowardice or Violence better to choose violence over dishonor; War over "Peace At Any Price." I crossed another comments about Sweden. My mistake. Will St wrote - But most offensively, you criticized American laws and Religion as being worse - in your estimation - than Islamic Sharia Law. Sigurd - When did I do that ? I never "estimated" one being worse than the other. To me they both seem cruel and primitive. I responded to a post from what appears to be a typical, narrow-minded American, that was criticizing what he called a "hard core" religion that allows a country to chop off hands as if that somehow lacks the glory of effectively chopping off heads. Well perhaps I have overreacted a bit. However right here you clearly say American law and Sharia Law are morally equivalent, in your view - and this is apparently because your Country doesn't have the death penalty and has less crime. You have no way of proving which is the cause and which is the result however. And comments where you say "Typical" "Narrow Minded" and "American", are those intended as compliments? No matter, one need be none of these things to criticize as "Hard Cord" States that claim it is the Law of God to cut off the hands of people for theft. Sigurd wrote - The message from your system is that "Killing is wrong, so if you kill someone we'll kill you right back." The stupidity of that aside - does killing killers really, in your eyes, seem to help when you look at your society as a whole ? Why do you say that? One could just as easily view the message as being "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you", and that the law is how society enforces that. But as I noted, "An Eye for an Eye" limits punishment to the crime. Sharia law/cutting off hands are punishments that exceed the crime, so calling that "hard core" is probably too mild a comment. Will Miho NY TV/Audio Post/Music/Live Sound Guy "The large print giveth and the small print taketh away... "Tom Waits |
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#79
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Mikrofonen.se ripped me off
On Jan 31, 11:21 am, "Sigurd Stenersen"
wrote: Without the Americans the Nazis would have won, so most of us are grateful that they did got involved. However, many people from many countries killed Nazis and that has nothing to do with the death penalty for regular crime. My point Sigurd is that death as a legal remedy is hardly the equivalent of taking a hand for theft. Primitive yes, but there are times it is appropriate. Even Ghandhi said that as primitive as such things are, if the choice is between Cowardice or Violence better to choose violence over dishonor; War over "Peace At Any Price." I crossed another comments about Sweden. My mistake. Will St wrote - But most offensively, you criticized American laws and Religion as being worse - in your estimation - than Islamic Sharia Law. Sigurd - When did I do that ? I never "estimated" one being worse than the other. To me they both seem cruel and primitive. I responded to a post from what appears to be a typical, narrow-minded American, that was criticizing what he called a "hard core" religion that allows a country to chop off hands as if that somehow lacks the glory of effectively chopping off heads. Well perhaps I have overreacted a bit. However right here you clearly say American law and Sharia Law are morally equivalent, in your view - and this is apparently because your Country doesn't have the death penalty and has less crime. You have no way of proving which is the cause and which is the result however. And comments where you say "Typical" "Narrow Minded" and "American", are those intended as compliments? No matter, one need be none of these things to criticize as "Hard Cord" States that claim it is the Law of God to cut off the hands of people for theft. Sigurd wrote - The message from your system is that "Killing is wrong, so if you kill someone we'll kill you right back." The stupidity of that aside - does killing killers really, in your eyes, seem to help when you look at your society as a whole ? Why do you say that? One could just as easily view the message as being "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you", and that the law is how society enforces that. But as I noted, "An Eye for an Eye" limits punishment to the crime. Sharia law/cutting off hands are punishments that exceed the crime, so calling that "hard core" is probably too mild a comment. Will Miho NY TV/Audio Post/Music/Live Sound Guy "The large print giveth and the small print taketh away... "Tom Waits |
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#80
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Mikrofonen.se ripped me off
"WillStG" wrote
On Jan 31, 11:21 am, "Sigurd Stenersen" wrote: The message from your system is that "Killing is wrong, so if you kill someone we'll kill you right back." The stupidity of that aside - does killing killers really, in your eyes, seem to help when you look at your society as a whole ? One could just as easily view the message as being "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" My point, precisely. Sigurd |
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