[geoff]

On 8/12/2014 9:11 a.m., wrote:
geoff wrote: "2:54 PMgeoff
- show quoted text -
8 would seem to be the new sixteen ?

geoff "


In ENGLISH please.



In reply to my comment about the extreme rarity of (specifically) 16 ohm
speakers since the mid-'70s (probably earlier) , your comment seemed to
imply that I thought your 8 ohm speakers were some sort of rarity.

Whereas since solid-state days 8 have been *the norm*, 4 lesser so, and
recently a few 6s have cropped up.

geoff

[[email protected]]

geoff wrote: "3:17 PMgeoff
- show quoted text -
In reply to my comment about the extreme rarity of (specifically) 16 ohm
speakers since the mid-'70s (probably earlier) , your comment seemed to
imply that I thought your 8 ohm speakers were some sort of rarity.

Whereas since solid-state days 8 have been *the norm*, 4 lesser so, and
recently a few 6s have cropped up.

geoff "

Sorry if my comment in that thread was vague. Actually, I implied that you thought my 8-16ohm-accepting JVC receiver was some sort of rarity, or cheap.


So if I read your statement above correctly, it seems there is a centering of impedances between 6-8ohms recently, with 16 almost nonexistent and 4ohms becoming so.

[geoff]

On 8/12/2014 9:24 a.m., wrote:
geoff wrote: "3:17 PMgeoff
- show quoted text -
In reply to my comment about the extreme rarity of (specifically) 16 ohm
speakers since the mid-'70s (probably earlier) , your comment seemed to
imply that I thought your 8 ohm speakers were some sort of rarity.

Whereas since solid-state days 8 have been *the norm*, 4 lesser so, and
recently a few 6s have cropped up.

geoff "

Sorry if my comment in that thread was vague. Actually, I implied that you thought my 8-16ohm-accepting JVC receiver was some sort of rarity, or cheap.


So if I read your statement above correctly, it seems there is a centering of impedances between 6-8ohms recently, with 16 almost nonexistent and 4ohms becoming so.



No. 4 or 8 are the common specs, but the spec is for the minimum load
impedance, so ann amp specced at 8 ohms *may* have trouble with a 6 ohm
load on peaks, but a 4 ohm output won't have any problem at all..

And 16 doesn't matter - if your amp will do the lower ones, it'll be
just fine with a lesser load (= higher Z).

geoff

[[email protected]]

geoff wrote: "- show quoted text -
No. 4 or 8 are the common specs, but the spec is for the minimum load
impedance, so ann amp specced at 8 ohms *may* have trouble with a 6 ohm
load on peaks, but a 4 ohm output won't have any problem at all..

And 16 doesn't matter - if your amp will do the lower ones, it'll be
just fine with a lesser load (= higher Z).

geoff "

So you're saying that I can safely hook up speakers with a 4ohm sticker on the back to my 8-16ohm receiver, but not a 6ohm. Clear as mud to me, but I'll trust you on this.

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

skrev i en meddelelse
...

geoff wrote: "- show quoted text -
No. 4 or 8 are the common specs, but the spec is for the minimum load
impedance, so ann amp specced at 8 ohms *may* have trouble with a 6 ohm
load on peaks, but a 4 ohm output won't have any problem at all..

And 16 doesn't matter - if your amp will do the lower ones, it'll be
just fine with a lesser load (= higher Z).

geoff "

So you're saying that I can safely hook up speakers with a 4ohm
sticker on the back to my 8-16ohm receiver, but not a 6ohm.

Your 8 to 16 ohm receiver is probably spec'ed like that because of the cost
of iron and electrolytic capacitors required for a proper powersupply.

I am however not making any guarantee of what it will and will not tolerate,
generally a transistor amplifier comes with circuitry to protect it from
excessive current demand. There are idiotic exceptions, but if the required
protection circuit messes unduly with the sound then the output transistors
were chosen to fit the budget from the sales department rather than the
design requirements.

Generally for an amplifier for home use I'd expect 60 percent more output
power specified for each halving of load impedance because that is the
design choice that _tends_ to allow largest unclipped peak power, no promise
made.

Way back in time somebody tested output power of a number of large power
amplifiers in real loudspeaker loads, I think the worst result was held by a
300 watt amplifier that went into current limiting at 11 watts in a real
world loudspeaker, I also think I remember the brand but they probably do
not make them like that now so it is intentionally omitted.

Clear as mud to me, but I'll trust you on this.

Lower Z = higher load (current demand).

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[geoff]

On 10/12/2014 1:19 a.m., wrote:
geoff wrote: "- show quoted text -
No. 4 or 8 are the common specs, but the spec is for the minimum load
impedance, so ann amp specced at 8 ohms *may* have trouble with a 6 ohm
load on peaks, but a 4 ohm output won't have any problem at all..

And 16 doesn't matter - if your amp will do the lower ones, it'll be
just fine with a lesser load (= higher Z).

geoff "

So you're saying that I can safely hook up speakers with a 4ohm sticker on the back to my 8-16ohm receiver, but not a 6ohm. Clear as mud to me, but I'll trust you on this.


Clearly "clear as mud".

NO. You should not hook up a speaker with a lower Z than your amp is
specified to drive. Higher Zs are no problem.


geoff

[[email protected]]

geoff:
But that's what it sounded like you said 6 posts ago:

"..so ann amp specced at 8 ohms *may* have trouble with a 6 ohm
load on peaks, but a 4 ohm output won't have any problem at all.. "

Reads to me like my 8-16 receiver won't have problems driving 4ohms.

"And 16 doesn't matter - if your amp will do the lower ones, it'll be
just fine with a lesser load (= higher Z).

geoff "

And that's what's confused me for decades: HOW could a 16ohm speaker present a LESSER load to the amp driving it than a 8ohm speaker?? Ohms measure impedance, so a higher ohm figure instinctively means higher impedance(resistance).


And N0ne/Nil/Alrich STAY THE **** OUT of this conversation and let geoff clarify what he said!!

[geoff]

On 10/12/2014 12:56 p.m., wrote:
geoff:
But that's what it sounded like you said 6 posts ago:

"..so ann amp specced at 8 ohms *may* have trouble with a 6 ohm
load on peaks, but a 4 ohm output won't have any problem at all.. "

Reads to me like my 8-16 receiver won't have problems driving 4ohms.

"And 16 doesn't matter - if your amp will do the lower ones, it'll be
just fine with a lesser load (= higher Z).

geoff "

And that's what's confused me for decades: HOW could a 16ohm speaker present a LESSER load to the amp driving it than a 8ohm speaker?? Ohms measure impedance, so a higher ohm figure instinctively means higher impedance(resistance).


And N0ne/Nil/Alrich STAY THE **** OUT of this conversation and let geoff clarify what he said!!



A lower Z draws more current for a given voltage so puts a heavier load
on the amp. A higher Z draw less current and puts a lesser load on the amp.

The word 'load' relates to the current drawn (therefore=power) - not the
'number' of the impedance.

So a lower number Z is a harder load to drive.

geoff

[Dave Platt[_2_]]

And that's what's confused me for decades: HOW could a 16ohm speaker
present a LESSER load to the amp driving it than a 8ohm speaker?? Ohms
measure impedance, so a higher ohm figure instinctively means higher
impedance(resistance).

Higher impedance (resistance) means this: for whatever voltage the
amplifier is producing, the speaker will "resist" the flow of current
more than a lower-impedance load would do, and less current will flow.

Think of it like a water-hose. If you put a certain amount of water
pressure at one end, then a thin hose will resist the flow of water
more than a big fat hose would. Less water will flow through the thin
hose (less water current) than would flow through a fat hose, if they
both have the same pressure (voltage) being supplied.

An audio amplifier tries, very hard, to be a "voltage" source. It
takes the signal at its input, increases its voltage by a specific
ratio, and feeds this voltage to the load (speaker). At any given
signal level, it's trying to feed the same voltage (peak or RMS) into
whatever speaker is attached to it. This means that the amplifier
must be able to provide a higher current into a low-impedance speaker,
than for a high-impedance speaker.

Providing high currents is a tough job for the amplifier. When it's
feeding high currents to the speaker, it's pulling high currents
through its transformer (which heats up), through its rectifiers and
filter capacitors, and through its output transistors (which also heat
up).

So, in order to drive a really low-impedance load (say, 1 or 2 ohms)
to a substantial voltage, an amplifier has to have a really hefty
power supply... big transformer, heavy-duty rectifier, big filter
capacitors... and robust output transistors capable of handling lots
of current... and a big fat heat-sink to get rid of the excess heat
generated in the transistors. These all cost $$$.

Cheap amps don't have these. If you try to drive a low-impedance load
with such an amplifier, the high currents required by the load will
overstress the power supply or overheat the output stage, or both. If
you're lucky, the amp goes into self-protect mode and shuts down. If
you're not lucky, something burns up, all the Magic Blue Smoke leaks
out, and the amp won't work.

[None]

wrote in message
...
Reads to me like

.... but you're a ****ing retard with reading comprehension problems.
In fact, it's not just reading, you have comprehension problems.

And N0ne/Nil/Alrich STAY THE **** OUT of this conversation and let
geoff clarify what he said!!

You seem to think I'm some other people. Another case of your being
****ing retarded. Don't bother whacking yourself on the head with a
clue-by-four; it would just splinter against the granite.

[Mark Zacharias]

"geoff" wrote in message
...
On 10/12/2014 1:19 a.m., wrote:
geoff wrote: "- show quoted text -
No. 4 or 8 are the common specs, but the spec is for the minimum load
impedance, so ann amp specced at 8 ohms *may* have trouble with a 6 ohm
load on peaks, but a 4 ohm output won't have any problem at all..

And 16 doesn't matter - if your amp will do the lower ones, it'll be
just fine with a lesser load (= higher Z).

geoff "

So you're saying that I can safely hook up speakers with a 4ohm sticker
on the back to my 8-16ohm receiver, but not a 6ohm. Clear as mud to me,
but I'll trust you on this.


Clearly "clear as mud".

NO. You should not hook up a speaker with a lower Z than your amp is
specified to drive. Higher Zs are no problem.


geoff


In my experience the manufacturers are simply trying to reduce the number of
warranty repairs to some extent by specifying the higher resistance. In
truth, with a bit of common sense applied at the volume control side of the
equation, a four-ohm speaker will work just fine with any solid state amp or
surround receiver of even minimal quality, such as Pioneer, Sony, Marantz,
Denon, Kenwood, etc PROVIDED as I say, some common sense is used and the
user isn't trying to use the thing as a sort of mini-PA system.

Problem is, people connect all sorts of speakers, even for example car
stereo speakers wired in unusual, often incompetent ways, then expect to be
able to blast away for hours on end.

Yamaha, for example, knows full well that one of their power transformers
will not have a failed thermal fuse in the power transformer in the absence
of customer abuse - playing the thing at a very high level, probably with
low impedance speakers (or combinations of speakers) for an hour or two more
or less continuous.

Therefore, they will only cover ONE power transformer under warranty. The
warranty servicer is expected to educate the customer that a second
transformer won't be covered.

In fact, the newest Yamaha's will "rat out" the user by recording how high
the volume was for more than one minute and how many times. This info is
accessible in the service menu.


Mark Z.

[[email protected]]

Mark Zacharias wrote: "In fact, the newest Yamaha's will "rat out" the user by recording how high the volume was"

?!?!

A 'black box' for an audio component? Scary. Will it also keep track of what radio stations, CDs, and digital files(iPod, haed drive) the driver played while driving to work or to their kids' soccer?

[Trevor]

On 10/12/2014 11:21 PM, Mark Zacharias wrote:
In my experience the manufacturers are simply trying to reduce the
number of warranty repairs to some extent by specifying the higher
resistance. In truth, with a bit of common sense applied at the volume
control side of the equation, a four-ohm speaker will work just fine
with any solid state amp or surround receiver of even minimal quality,
such as Pioneer, Sony, Marantz, Denon, Kenwood, etc PROVIDED as I say,
some common sense is used and the user isn't trying to use the thing as
a sort of mini-PA system.

Problem is, people connect all sorts of speakers, even for example car
stereo speakers wired in unusual, often incompetent ways, then expect to
be able to blast away for hours on end.

Yamaha, for example, knows full well that one of their power
transformers will not have a failed thermal fuse in the power
transformer in the absence of customer abuse - playing the thing at a
very high level, probably with low impedance speakers (or combinations
of speakers) for an hour or two more or less continuous.

Therefore, they will only cover ONE power transformer under warranty.
The warranty servicer is expected to educate the customer that a second
transformer won't be covered.

In fact, the newest Yamaha's will "rat out" the user by recording how
high the volume was for more than one minute and how many times. This
info is accessible in the service menu.


Amazing isn't it that a manufacturer can incorporate watch dog
electronics in a receiver, but not simply a more sophisticated
protection circuit to prevent damage in the first place!
I'd be looking elsewhere if that's the case.

Trevor.

[None]

wrote in message
...
geoff wrote: "- show quoted text -
No. 4 or 8 are the common specs, but the spec is for the minimum
load
impedance, so ann amp specced at 8 ohms *may* have trouble with a 6
ohm
load on peaks, but a 4 ohm output won't have any problem at all..

And 16 doesn't matter - if your amp will do the lower ones, it'll be
just fine with a lesser load (= higher Z).

geoff "

So you're saying that I can safely hook up speakers with a 4ohm
sticker on the back to my 8-16ohm receiver, but not a 6ohm.

No he's not saying that at all. If you do that, you might overheat
your amplifier, or cause distortion. There's that reading
comprehension problem again: the story of your life.

Clear as mud to me, but I'll trust you on this.

You're ****ing retard.