[Arny Krueger[_5_]]

"Mats Peterson" wrote in message
...

MP3 is ok for content with severely cropped frequency range, like old
time radio, or otherwise if using sub-optimal equipment such as a
portable player and el cheapo earbuds. But I always use lossless (CD
or FLAC) at home with the hi-fi system.

I find that it is helpful to consider only the subjective impressions of
people who:

(1) Compare MP3s directly to the .wav files they are made from
(2) Have the means to make this comparison level-matched, time-synched, and
double blind
(3) Hear differences in a statistically significant percentage of the the
comparisons

(2) Turns out to be very easy using free software tools available for
download from multiple sources.

If one does that, concerns about audible differences are generally relate to
issues other than high frequencies.

[Audio_Empire]

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"Mats Peterson" wrote in message
...

MP3 is ok for content with severely cropped frequency range, like old
time radio, or otherwise if using sub-optimal equipment such as a
portable player and el cheapo earbuds. But I always use lossless (CD
or FLAC) at home with the hi-fi system.

I find that it is helpful to consider only the subjective impressions of
people who:

(1) Compare MP3s directly to the .wav files they are made from
(2) Have the means to make this comparison level-matched, time-synched, and
double blind
(3) Hear differences in a statistically significant percentage of the the
comparisons

(2) Turns out to be very easy using free software tools available for
download from multiple sources.

If one does that, concerns about audible differences are generally relate to
issues other than high frequencies.

Frequency response is generally not the issue here anyway. The issue is
sounds generated by the compression and expanding action that is NOT
part of the music and therefore can bee looked at as noise/distortion.
These sounds are put there by the compression algorithm, and with
certain kinds of music are easily heard.

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

[Audio_Empire]

In article ,
ScottW wrote:

On Tuesday, July 9, 2013 11:14:04 AM UTC-7, Audio_Empire wrote:
In article ,

"Arny Krueger" wrote:



"Mats Peterson" wrote in message

...



MP3 is ok for content with severely cropped frequency range, like old

time radio, or otherwise if using sub-optimal equipment such as a

portable player and el cheapo earbuds. But I always use lossless (CD

or FLAC) at home with the hi-fi system.



I find that it is helpful to consider only the subjective impressions of

people who:



(1) Compare MP3s directly to the .wav files they are made from

(2) Have the means to make this comparison level-matched, time-synched,
and

double blind

(3) Hear differences in a statistically significant percentage of the the

comparisons



(2) Turns out to be very easy using free software tools available for

download from multiple sources.



If one does that, concerns about audible differences are generally relate
to

issues other than high frequencies.



Frequency response is generally not the issue here anyway. The issue is

sounds generated by the compression and expanding action that is NOT

part of the music and therefore can bee looked at as noise/distortion.

These sounds are put there by the compression algorithm, and with

certain kinds of music are easily heard.


But as you said these are only easily heard with headphones or earbuds and
even your golden ears has difficulty with masking of these artifacts with
high quality compression.
Further, considering that compression is an option, and these highly
resolving systems capable of revealing these artifacts cost $100....I stand
by my statement that high end isn't dead. It's ubiquitous.

Would you like to explain to me what's optional about lossy compression
when there's no way to listen to streaming Internet radio without it?
While some Internet radio is streamed at 192 KBPS, most is 128 KBPS or
less. While 192 KBPS compression is higher quality than most, I can
still hear it with some program material,

Just as high end digital photography is blowing away film and in a consumer
format no less.

http://reviews.cnet.com/smartphones/...-35822762.html

"You can sum up Nokia's just-unveiled Lumia 1020 in three words: 41,
megapixel, camera."

"The Windows 8 phone will sell exclusively in the U.S. at AT&T for a hefty
$299.99...."

Too bad it runs Windows. That means it'll do everything poorly. I would
love to see some real pictures this puppy.

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

[[email protected]]

I'm more concerned about the death of phono/RCA connectors on the backs of receivers and TVs!

I would like to sprint for a 40-50" LED by 2014, but there's nowhere to plug in all of my perfectly functional older playback gear(DVD/VHS combo, etc).

HDMIs are replacing analog connecters so fast there isn't even a mini 1/8" audio in port on audio gear any more.

[Audio_Empire]

In article ,
wrote:

I'm more concerned about the death of phono/RCA connectors on the backs of
receivers and TVs!

I would like to sprint for a 40-50" LED by 2014, but there's nowhere to plug
in all of my perfectly functional older playback gear(DVD/VHS combo, etc).

HDMIs are replacing analog connecters so fast there isn't even a mini 1/8"
audio in port on audio gear any more.

I have just the opposite problem. My big Pioneer Elite rear-projector HD
TV is too old to have any HDMI inputs. As a result, I have a Blu-Ray
player, but it won't output anything other 480i from Blu-Ray discs over
the analog PbPyR output jacks. Regular DVD's it will at least output at
480p, but NOT Blu-Ray discs! What a waste!

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

[Audio_Empire]

In article ,
ScottW wrote:

On Thursday, July 11, 2013 12:31:43 PM UTC-7, Audio_Empire wrote:
In article ,

ScottW wrote:


But as you said these are only easily heard with headphones or earbuds
and

even your golden ears has difficulty with masking of these artifacts
with

high quality compression.

Further, considering that compression is an option, and these highly

resolving systems capable of revealing these artifacts cost $100....I
stand

by my statement that high end isn't dead. It's ubiquitous.



Would you like to explain to me what's optional about lossy compression

when there's no way to listen to streaming Internet radio without it?

It's optional in the sense that even the very inexpensive Sansa Fuse
supports FLAC.

But all Internet radio is MP3. That's NOT optional.

While some Internet radio is streamed at 192 KBPS, most is 128 KBPS or

less. While 192 KBPS compression is higher quality than most, I can

still hear it with some program material,


When did MP3 become defined by Internet Radio? That would be like defining
analogue tape by cassette.

You miss the point which is that not all MP3 usage is optional. if you
buy your music from iTunes or some such, it's supplied to you as MP3. If
you want to listen to Internet radio, it's MP3. You have no choice
(except not to listen at all).

On the other hand....without audio compression there wouldn't be any IR for
you to listen to.

That's still irrelevant to the point.

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

[[email protected]]

I just don't want to be forced to have to buy all new peripherals after buying a new display, that's all.

[Arny Krueger[_5_]]

wrote in message
...
I just don't want to be forced to have to buy all new peripherals after
buying a new display, that's all.

It is still pretty common for new video gear to have component video (CV)
inputs, which generally includes standard L & R RCA jack audio audio inputs.

Some AVRs convert standard analog audio inputs into HDMI and some don't, so
that can be a way to use legacy audio gear with modern flat screen TVs. My
Denon AVR 1613 does. My Yamaha doesn't.

You can also find stand-alone CV to HDMI converters on eBay and at AV
stores.

[Audio_Empire]

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

wrote in message
...
I just don't want to be forced to have to buy all new peripherals after
buying a new display, that's all.

It is still pretty common for new video gear to have component video (CV)
inputs, which generally includes standard L & R RCA jack audio audio inputs.

Some AVRs convert standard analog audio inputs into HDMI and some don't, so
that can be a way to use legacy audio gear with modern flat screen TVs. My
Denon AVR 1613 does. My Yamaha doesn't.

You can also find stand-alone CV to HDMI converters on eBay and at AV
stores.

I have bought a number of these HDMI to component converters and none of
them work very well. The last one I bought supposedly does HDMI to
either PbPyR or VGA. With either mode selected, the picture is so dark
you cannot see it without turning the black level all the way up (and
even then it looks awful) and the picture has streaks through it that
are very annoying especially with light foreground objects against a
dark background. I suspect it's the implementation of Intel's HDCP
that's the culprit here. I'm going to have to wait until my 58" Elite
HDTV finally dies before I can justify spending the dough for a new
HDMI-equipped flat-screen (of at least 60").

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

[[email protected]]

Audio_Empi
I have just the opposite problem. My big Pioneer Elite rear-projector HD
TV is too old to have any HDMI inputs. As a result, I have a Blu-Ray.."

I think it was only the last two model years that TV mfgs decided to
scale wayyyy back on rcas and really bone up on hidmees.

[Audio_Empire]

In article ,
wrote:

Audio_Empi
I have just the opposite problem. My big Pioneer Elite rear-projector HD
TV is too old to have any HDMI inputs. As a result, I have a Blu-Ray.."

I think it was only the last two model years that TV mfgs decided to
scale wayyyy back on rcas and really bone up on hidmees.

My Sony Blu-Ray player DOES have PbPrY outputs, and it outputs HD from
NetFlix, Amazon, etc. Internet streaming video sites, but it won't
output HD from a Blu-Ray disc and in fact, it plays Blu-Ray HD discs
ONLY as 480i, It won't even output 480p over component except from
standard Definition DVD videos! What a load of paranoid bullpuckey. As
if any pirate is going to to make analog copies of Blu-Ray HD content.
It's simply a ploy by the manufacturers to get people to buy new
equipment. Anti-Piracy my arse!


[ Please turn the topic back to audio matters. -- dsr ]

[~misfit~[_3_]]

Somewhere on teh intarwebs wrote:
J. g. holt the founder of stereophile at the end of his life was of
the mind that audio is near death for having neglected this:

Interview in stereophile, of which the entire thing is worth the
timed to read.

http://www.stereophile.com/asweseeit/1107awsi/

Audio as a hobby is dying, largely by its own hand. As far as the real
world is concerned, high-end audio lost its credibility during the
1980s, when it flatly refused to submit to the kind of basic honesty
controls (double-blind testing, for example) that had legitimized
every other serious scientific endeavor since Pascal. [This refusal]
is a source of endless derisive amusement among rational people and
of perpetual embarrassment for me, because I am associated by so many
people with the mess my disciples made of spreading my gospel.

It is ironic the very mag he founded was in the forefront of this
neglect and of promoting voodoo audio., as it and fellow travelers
continue.

Here's a short piece I just read that is sort of relevant:

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/09/27/te...em/index.html?

# # # # # !!Warning - Reminiscing follows!! # # # # #

There are some truths in it. I remember when I went (from my home in New
Zealand) to live and work on Norfolk Island for a year or three at the end
of the 70s - I guess similar to the author's move to college. I had a
component system and five 'beer crates' of LPs (about 25 to the wooden
crate, leaving 'flipping room' - they were a real boon to the young carefree
budding audiophile as they were *very* strong and LPs fitted into them
perfectly).

I didn't take my system and LPs with me and rather foolishly let myself be
talked into letting a friend 'look after' the records rather than put them
into storage. On my return in 1980 we had a party at said friends house as I
was gagging to hear some of my music again... Two hours later, after having
listened to scratches, skips, pops and 'loops' I gave him the whole
collection! So much for looking after it - he'd turned into a real party
animal who let just anyone change the records - usually not worrying about
putting the last one away. :-( I was so stressed out by the experience I
embraced the small part of me that was still hippy and divested myself of
material wories.

I started buying CDs a while later and didn't look back.
--
/Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long, way when religious belief has a
cozy little classification in the DSM."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
[Sent from my OrbitalT ocular implant interface.]

[~misfit~[_3_]]

Somewhere on teh intarwebs ScottW wrote:
[snip]
Check this out and look at exhibit C.

http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/perm...0130415digital

See the decline of CD sales?
It won't be long before pressing CDs goes the way of pressing new
vinyl. Very limited.

The link's dead (and looks like it probably was when posted). Do you have
another? Maybe make a tiny URL as well? I'd appreciate it.
--
/Shaun

"Humans will have advanced a long, long, way when religious belief has a
cozy little classification in the DSM."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1).