[Carey Carlan]

I stored my records upright, like books on a bookshelf. My brother says
that will make them warp--store them horizontal.

I suspect vertical is correct, but I don't know why.

Any good references?

[Don Pearce[_2_]]

On Fri, 02 Jan 2009 16:02:49 GMT, Carey Carlan
wrote:

I stored my records upright, like books on a bookshelf. My brother says
that will make them warp--store them horizontal.

I suspect vertical is correct, but I don't know why.

Any good references?

Potential bending force on the record is proportional to Cos(angle to
horizontal). Maximum when horizontal, zero when vertical. Also when
vertical, nothing is getting forced into the grooves.

d

[Scott Dorsey]

Carey Carlan wrote:
I stored my records upright, like books on a bookshelf. My brother says
that will make them warp--store them horizontal.

Horizontal storage is bad because it will make them warp unless the pressure
across them is VERY even.

I suspect vertical is correct, but I don't know why.

It is.

Any good references?

Library of Congress good enough? http://www.loc.gov/preserv/care/record.html
There's actually an AES standard for disc storage but I don't know the number
offhand.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Arny Krueger]

"Carey Carlan" wrote in message

I stored my records upright, like books on a bookshelf.
My brother says that will make them warp--store them
horizontal.

I suspect vertical is correct, but I don't know why.

Any good references?

Geometry.

As has been correctly pointed out, vertical storage minimizes any bending
moments applied to the surface of the LP.

If you store LPs horizontally, the geometric situation is more complex.

For a long time LPs have been made thicker at the label than anyplace else,
so that the grooves won't slide against each other when the LP is played on
a traditional record changer. The edge of the LP may or may not be as
thick.

At any rate, when stored horizontally, there will be a distributed vertical
force due to the weight of the vinyl. The area of minimal support will be
forced downward, which will be resisted by the compressive strength of the
vinyl in the circumferential direction. This will create a set of buckling
moments which will tend to force the LP into something that looks like a
well-fried potato chip.

[Richard Crowley]

"Arny Krueger" wrote ...
"Carey Carlan" wrote
I stored my records upright, like books on a bookshelf.
My brother says that will make them warp--store them
horizontal.

I suspect vertical is correct, but I don't know why.

Any good references?

Geometry.

As has been correctly pointed out, vertical storage minimizes any bending
moments applied to the surface of the LP.
.....
Exactly.

Furthermore, serious collectors remove the discs from the cardboard
sleeves and keep the sleeves in protective covers to preserve their
collector value.

[Carey Carlan]

(Scott Dorsey) wrote in
:

Any good references?

Library of Congress good enough?
http://www.loc.gov/preserv/care/record.html There's actually an AES
standard for disc storage but I don't know the number offhand.
--scott

LOC might convince him.

[Carey Carlan]

"Richard Crowley" wrote in
:

"Arny Krueger" wrote ...
"Carey Carlan" wrote
I stored my records upright, like books on a bookshelf.
My brother says that will make them warp--store them
horizontal.

I suspect vertical is correct, but I don't know why.

Any good references?

Geometry.

As has been correctly pointed out, vertical storage minimizes any
bending moments applied to the surface of the LP.
....
Exactly.

Furthermore, serious collectors remove the discs from the cardboard
sleeves and keep the sleeves in protective covers to preserve their
collector value.

Too extreme for me. I'll protect the music. The printing on the sleeve
will have to fend for itself.

[Keith.]

"Carey Carlan" wrote in message
...
I stored my records upright, like books on a bookshelf. My brother says
that will make them warp--store them horizontal.

I suspect vertical is correct, but I don't know why.

Any good references?\

The answers and common sense would suggest vertical storage.Theoretically
the single point contact with vertical storage could be a cause of point
stress but not so with flat storage.
I store both ways and have not experienced problems.
Has anybody had warping through flat storage?

Keith.

[William Sommerwerck]

Vertical is the preferred way, as it makes it easy to keep the disks firmly
pressed in place, without sagging or leaning.

Horizontal is okay, if the disks are perfectly centered.

[nebulax]

On Jan 4, 10:04*pm, "Keith." wrote:
"Carey Carlan" wrote in message

...

I stored my records upright, like books on a bookshelf. *My brother says
that will make them warp--store them horizontal.

I suspect vertical is correct, but I don't know why.

Any good references?\

The answers and common sense would suggest vertical storage.Theoretically
the single point contact with vertical storage could be a cause of point
stress but not so with flat storage.
I store both ways and have not experienced problems.
Has anybody had warping through flat storage?

Keith.


I've not seen warping thru flat storage, but if you already had a pile
of warped records and stacked them horizontally in a hot room, they
might eventually flatten themselves out.

-Neb

[TimR]

On Jan 5, 1:09*pm, nebulax wrote:
On Jan 4, 10:04*pm, "Keith." wrote:





"Carey Carlan" wrote in message

...

I stored my records upright, like books on a bookshelf. *My brother says
that will make them warp--store them horizontal.

I suspect vertical is correct, but I don't know why.

Any good references?\

The answers and common sense would suggest vertical storage.Theoretically
the single point contact with vertical storage could be a cause of point
stress but not so with flat storage.
I store both ways and have not experienced problems.
Has anybody had warping through flat storage?

Keith.

I've not seen warping thru flat storage, but if you already had a pile
of warped records and stacked them horizontally in a hot room, they
might eventually flatten themselves out.

-Neb- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

But, but, but what about the plastic wrap? I remember many
discussions long ago about whether leaving the plastic on was
protective or harmful, with some vociferous proponents for each
method.

I've not had an LP warp stored either way. I'm not really convinced
by the geometric argument. Stored vertically your buckling moment is
much larger, but the LP is so light I don't think it will exceed the
limit. Stored horizontally in small piles doesn't sound bad either,
but at some point the weight of a tall pile has to be significant on
the bottom. I don't know what that height would be. One foot? Six
feet?

I've had LPs warp, I think in a hot car. It's been a long time!

[Laurence Payne[_2_]]

On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 10:35:28 -0800 (PST), TimR
wrote:

Stored horizontally in small piles doesn't sound bad either,
but at some point the weight of a tall pile has to be significant on
the bottom. I don't know what that height would be. One foot? Six
feet?

Significant compared with stylus pressure?


I've had LPs warp, I think in a hot car. It's been a long time!

I left one on a car dashboard on a (rare) hot English summer day. It
curled up into a most interesting shape.

[nebulax]

On Jan 5, 1:35*pm, TimR wrote:
On Jan 5, 1:09*pm, nebulax wrote:



On Jan 4, 10:04*pm, "Keith." wrote:

"Carey Carlan" wrote in message

...

I stored my records upright, like books on a bookshelf. *My brother says
that will make them warp--store them horizontal.

I suspect vertical is correct, but I don't know why.

Any good references?\

The answers and common sense would suggest vertical storage.Theoretically
the single point contact with vertical storage could be a cause of point
stress but not so with flat storage.
I store both ways and have not experienced problems.
Has anybody had warping through flat storage?

Keith.

I've not seen warping thru flat storage, but if you already had a pile
of warped records and stacked them horizontally in a hot room, they
might eventually flatten themselves out.

-Neb- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

But, but, but what about the plastic wrap? *I remember many
discussions long ago about whether leaving the plastic on was
protective or harmful, with some vociferous proponents for each
method.

I've not had an LP warp stored either way. *I'm not really convinced
by the geometric argument. *Stored vertically your buckling moment is
much larger, but the LP is so light I don't think it will exceed the
limit. *Stored horizontally in small piles doesn't sound bad either,
but at some point the weight of a tall pile has to be significant on
the bottom. *I don't know what that height would be. *One foot? *Six
feet?

I've had LPs warp, I think in a hot car. *It's been a long time!



Plastic wrap (or shrink wrap) is going to keep on shrinking whether
you want it to or not, so best just to take it off, or at least cut
some slits around the edges for strain relief. If it's an album that
you want to sell as 'sealed', that's another issue, but the shrink
wrap may eventually fall apart (or warp the record), anyway.

I think horizontal stacking is basically ok in small piles (maybe a
foot or so), and if the records are clean, but snugly packed vertical
storage is still going to be a lot safer.

Even if records get warped, there are various methods for flattening
them out again, often involving sandwiching the vinyl between thick
sheets of glass, and then placing in a low temp oven for awhile.

-Neb

[jakdedert]

nebulax wrote:
On Jan 5, 1:35 pm, TimR wrote:
On Jan 5, 1:09 pm, nebulax wrote:



On Jan 4, 10:04 pm, "Keith." wrote:
"Carey Carlan" wrote in message
...
I stored my records upright, like books on a bookshelf. My brother says
that will make them warp--store them horizontal.
I suspect vertical is correct, but I don't know why.
Any good references?\
The answers and common sense would suggest vertical storage.Theoretically
the single point contact with vertical storage could be a cause of point
stress but not so with flat storage.
I store both ways and have not experienced problems.
Has anybody had warping through flat storage?
Keith.
I've not seen warping thru flat storage, but if you already had a pile
of warped records and stacked them horizontally in a hot room, they
might eventually flatten themselves out.
-Neb- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
But, but, but what about the plastic wrap? I remember many
discussions long ago about whether leaving the plastic on was
protective or harmful, with some vociferous proponents for each
method.

I've not had an LP warp stored either way. I'm not really convinced
by the geometric argument. Stored vertically your buckling moment is
much larger, but the LP is so light I don't think it will exceed the
limit. Stored horizontally in small piles doesn't sound bad either,
but at some point the weight of a tall pile has to be significant on
the bottom. I don't know what that height would be. One foot? Six
feet?

I've had LPs warp, I think in a hot car. It's been a long time!



Plastic wrap (or shrink wrap) is going to keep on shrinking whether
you want it to or not, so best just to take it off, or at least cut
some slits around the edges for strain relief. If it's an album that
you want to sell as 'sealed', that's another issue, but the shrink
wrap may eventually fall apart (or warp the record), anyway.

I think horizontal stacking is basically ok in small piles (maybe a
foot or so), and if the records are clean, but snugly packed vertical
storage is still going to be a lot safer.

Even if records get warped, there are various methods for flattening
them out again, often involving sandwiching the vinyl between thick
sheets of glass, and then placing in a low temp oven for awhile.

-Neb

If LPs are stored vertically and tightly sandwiched together, the
shrink...can't. I've seen individual albums stored otherwise where the
shrink, uh...shrunk, distorting at least the album jacket.

jak

[William Sommerwerck]

Plastic wrap (or shrink wrap) is going to keep on shrinking whether
you want it to or not, so best just to take it off, or at least cut
some slits around the edges for strain relief. If it's an album that
you want to sell as 'sealed', that's another issue, but the shrink
wrap may eventually fall apart (or warp the record), anyway.

I remember LPs with "loose" shrinkwrap" to prevent warpage. This is
ridiculous.

I've never seen even /tight/ shrinkwrap get to the point where it bowed the
jacket. I leave it on until it falls off.

[nebulax]

On Jan 6, 8:43*am, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:
Plastic wrap (or shrink wrap) is going to keep on shrinking whether
you want it to or not, so best just to take it off, or at least cut
some slits around the edges for strain relief. If it's an album that
you want to sell as 'sealed', that's another issue, but the shrink
wrap may eventually fall apart (or warp the record), anyway.

I remember LPs with "loose" shrinkwrap" to prevent warpage. This is
ridiculous.

I've never seen even /tight/ shrinkwrap get to the point where it bowed the
jacket. I leave it on until it falls off.


I've seen sealed records that were warped, and in almost every case
the shrinkwrap was stretched tight against the bowed part of the
cover. So, is the shrinkwrap to blame for the warpage? Probably not,
but exposure to heat can have a destructive effect on most sorts of
plastic, PVC, polyolefin, or otherwise.

-Neb

-Neb

[[email protected]]

Would You Be Whiter Much Whiter Then Snow
There's Power In The Blood Power In The Blood
Since Things Are Lost In It's Live Giving Flow
Theres Wonderful Power In The Blood

There Is Power (Power) Power (Power)
Wonder Working Power
In The Blood (In The Blood)
Of The Lamb (Of The Lamb)
There Is Power (Power) Power (Power)

*all Four singing*

Wonder Working Power
In The Precious Blood Of The Lamb

*Bass singer, the other three doing background part*

Would You Do Service For Jesus Your King
There's Power In The Blood Power In The Blood
And Would You Live Daily His Prasies To Sing
Theres Wonderful Power In The Blood (In The Blood)

*high notes singer, the other three doing background part*

There Is Power (Power) Power (Power)
Wonder Working Power
In The Blood (In The Blood)
Of The Lamb (Of The Lamb)
There Is Power (Power) Power (Power)
Wonder Working Power
In The Precious Blood Of The Lamb

*The Highest singer, the other three doing background part*

There Is Power (Power) Power (Power)
Wonder Working Power
In The Blood (In The Blood)
Of The Lamb (Of The Lamb)
There Is Power (Power) Power (Power)

*all Four singing*

Wonder Working Power
In The Precious Blood Of The Lamb
In The Preeccioous Blooood Ooof The
LaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAA AAAAMMMMB

*fade out*