[PanHandler[_2_]]

As I was reading the thread on Bose 901 speakers I was reminded of a Bose
system of the mid-late sixties. It was a single cabinet unit about 8' long
by about 3' high and had a convex curved front panel with ports (slots?) at
each end near the mid and high drivers. The curved panel looked about 5½
feet wide. The model name was 'Patrician' possibly with a suffix number. It
had a 30" woofer. I used to have an old Audio magazine from the era, and
there was a write-up on it, along with a photo. I've worn Google out looking
for info, but no joy on this particular 'Patrician'. Please... somebody tell
me I haven't lost my marbles and at least say "yeah, I seem to recall
something like that". Mebbe I'll sleep better hearing at least that much!
Many Thanx!

[PanHandler[_2_]]

"PanHandler" wrote in message
...
As I was reading the thread on Bose 901 speakers I was reminded of an
ELECTRO VOICE system of the mid-late sixties. It was a single cabinet unit
about 8' long by about 3' high and had a convex curved front panel with
ports (slots?) at each end near the mid and high drivers. The curved panel
looked about 5½ feet wide. The model name was 'Patrician' possibly with a
suffix number. It had a 30" woofer. I used to have an old Audio magazine
from the era, and there was a write-up on it, along with a photo. I've worn
Google out looking
for info, but no joy on this particular 'Patrician'. Please... somebody tell
me I haven't lost my marbles and at least say "yeah, I seem to recall
something like that". Mebbe I'll sleep better hearing at least that much!

[Mr.T]

"PanHandler" wrote in message
...
"PanHandler" wrote in message
...
As I was reading the thread on Bose 901 speakers I was reminded of an
ELECTRO VOICE system of the mid-late sixties.

Glad you corrected yourself, it was before Bose even started as a company.
The Patrician of course was designed for the mono era, like many other large
speakers, including the original Klipschorn, JBL Hartfield, Tannoy GRF etc.
All now collectors items, unlike anything Bose has made.

MrT.

[Eeyore]

"Mr.T" wrote:

"PanHandler" wrote in message
"PanHandler" wrote in message

As I was reading the thread on Bose 901 speakers I was reminded of an
ELECTRO VOICE system of the mid-late sixties.

Glad you corrected yourself, it was before Bose even started as a company.
The Patrician of course was designed for the mono era, like many other large
speakers, including the original Klipschorn, JBL Hartfield, Tannoy GRF etc.
All now collectors items, unlike anything Bose has made.

Bose are dumpster items.

Graham

[Richard Crowley]

"PanHandler" wrote ...
"PanHandler" wrote ...
As I was reading the thread on Bose 901 speakers I was reminded of an
ELECTRO VOICE system of the mid-late sixties. It was a single cabinet unit
about 8' long by about 3' high and had a convex curved front panel with
ports (slots?) at each end near the mid and high drivers. The curved panel
looked about 5½ feet wide. The model name was 'Patrician' possibly with a
suffix number. It had a 30" woofer. I used to have an old Audio magazine
from the era, and there was a write-up on it, along with a photo. I've
worn Google out looking
for info, but no joy on this particular 'Patrician'. Please... somebody
tell me I haven't lost my marbles and at least say "yeah, I seem to recall
something like that". Mebbe I'll sleep better hearing at least that much!

Would you believe JBL Paragon? :-)
http://www.audioheritage.org/html/pr...bl/paragon.htm
Here is a nice picture with a van der Rohe "Barcelona" chair...
http://www.audioheritage.org/images/...agon-color.jpg

But Bose makes a 1/25th-scale plastic scale model that looks
vaguely reminiscent. You may have seen it in infomercials. Looks
like they get roughly the same $$$ for it as JBL did back in the day.
http://images.businessweek.com/ss/06.../bose_wave.jpg

JBL also had the "venetian blind" acoustic-lens, but I don't
remember that it was used on the Paragon system. Paragon
also used the 075 Ring Radiator tweeter (aka, the acoustic
laser). The same transducer was used for ultrasonic vehicle
detection on freeway overpasses in California. At least that
is the story.

IIRC, the EV Patrician more resembled a mono phone booth.

[Mr.T]

"Richard Crowley" wrote in message
. ..
As I was reading the thread on Bose 901 speakers I was reminded of an
ELECTRO VOICE system of the mid-late sixties. It was a single cabinet
unit
about 8' long by about 3' high and had a convex curved front panel with
ports (slots?) at each end near the mid and high drivers. The curved
panel
looked about 5½ feet wide. The model name was 'Patrician' possibly with
a
suffix number. It had a 30" woofer. I used to have an old Audio magazine
from the era, and there was a write-up on it, along with a photo. I've
worn Google out looking
for info, but no joy on this particular 'Patrician'. Please... somebody
tell me I haven't lost my marbles and at least say "yeah, I seem to
recall
something like that". Mebbe I'll sleep better hearing at least that
much!

Would you believe JBL Paragon? :-)
http://www.audioheritage.org/html/pr...bl/paragon.htm
Here is a nice picture with a van der Rohe "Barcelona" chair...

http://www.audioheritage.org/images/...aragon-color.j
pg


That's a completely different beast. Even more sought after these days.


JBL also had the "venetian blind" acoustic-lens, but I don't
remember that it was used on the Paragon system.

No lens was used on the Paragon, the curved front encosure panel acted as
the diffuser.

MrT.

[Eeyore]

Richard Crowley wrote:

But Bose makes a 1/25th-scale plastic scale model that looks
vaguely reminiscent.

LMAO !

Graham

[WindsorFox[_4_]]

Richard Crowley wrote:
"PanHandler" wrote ...
"PanHandler" wrote ...
As I was reading the thread on Bose 901 speakers I was reminded of an
ELECTRO VOICE system of the mid-late sixties. It was a single cabinet unit
about 8' long by about 3' high and had a convex curved front panel with
ports (slots?) at each end near the mid and high drivers. The curved panel
looked about 5½ feet wide. The model name was 'Patrician' possibly with a
suffix number. It had a 30" woofer. I used to have an old Audio magazine
from the era, and there was a write-up on it, along with a photo. I've
worn Google out looking
for info, but no joy on this particular 'Patrician'. Please... somebody
tell me I haven't lost my marbles and at least say "yeah, I seem to recall
something like that". Mebbe I'll sleep better hearing at least that much!

Would you believe JBL Paragon? :-)
http://www.audioheritage.org/html/pr...bl/paragon.htm
Here is a nice picture with a van der Rohe "Barcelona" chair...
http://www.audioheritage.org/images/...agon-color.jpg

But Bose makes a 1/25th-scale plastic scale model that looks
vaguely reminiscent. You may have seen it in infomercials. Looks
like they get roughly the same $$$ for it as JBL did back in the day.
http://images.businessweek.com/ss/06.../bose_wave.jpg


I don't care what Paul Harvey says, that thing sounds like crap.

--


I have never seen a computer infected by botnet.
How it is like? - Lemat


They sneeze bits all over teh internets. - Rev. Beergoggles

[Eeyore]

PanHandler wrote:

It had a 30" woofer.

Ah, the 30W IIRC. I do have a data sheet somewhere. They actually recommended
mounting them in walls. No kidding.

Graham

[WindsorFox[_4_]]

PanHandler wrote:
"PanHandler" wrote in message
...
As I was reading the thread on Bose 901 speakers I was reminded of an
ELECTRO VOICE system of the mid-late sixties. It was a single cabinet unit
about 8' long by about 3' high and had a convex curved front panel with
ports (slots?) at each end near the mid and high drivers. The curved panel
looked about 5½ feet wide. The model name was 'Patrician' possibly with a
suffix number. It had a 30" woofer. I used to have an old Audio magazine
from the era, and there was a write-up on it, along with a photo. I've worn
Google out looking
for info, but no joy on this particular 'Patrician'. Please... somebody tell
me I haven't lost my marbles and at least say "yeah, I seem to recall
something like that". Mebbe I'll sleep better hearing at least that much!




That description sounds like a JBL cabinet.
http://hifiear.com/DSC01890_800x600.jpg

--


I have never seen a computer infected by botnet.
How it is like? - Lemat


They sneeze bits all over teh internets. - Rev. Beergoggles

[[email protected]]

PanHandler wrote:
As I was reading the thread on Bose 901 speakers I was reminded of a Bose
system of the mid-late sixties. It was a single cabinet unit about 8' long
by about 3' high and had a convex curved front panel with ports (slots?) at
each end near the mid and high drivers. The curved panel looked about 5½
feet wide. The model name was 'Patrician' possibly with a suffix number. It
had a 30" woofer. I used to have an old Audio magazine from the era, and
there was a write-up on it, along with a photo. I've worn Google out looking
for info, but no joy on this particular 'Patrician'. Please... somebody tell
me I haven't lost my marbles and at least say "yeah, I seem to recall
something like that". Mebbe I'll sleep better hearing at least that much!
Many Thanx!

I remember that article in Audio. There was also a blurb of it in High
Fidelity magazine about the same time. Never saw or heard anything else
about it, although it was the first time I had ever heard of Bose.

- Oldguy

[Arny Krueger]

"PanHandler" wrote in message


As I was reading the thread on Bose 901 speakers I was
reminded of a Bose system of the mid-late sixties. It was
a single cabinet unit about 8' long by about 3' high and
had a convex curved front panel with ports (slots?) at
each end near the mid and high drivers. The curved panel
looked about 5½ feet wide. The model name was 'Patrician'
possibly with a suffix number.

As others have observed, it was the EV Patrician, of which there were a
chronological sequence of upgraded models.

It had a 30" woofer.

Impressive in the day, by modern standards it is a peanut-whistle. Couldn't
take much power, and had virtually no linear stroke at all.

EV still makes great speakers, only they are for professional use, mostly
for live sound. Some of their live sound offerings can sound great in a
listening room if you set them up right.

[Eeyore]

Arny Krueger wrote:

Impressive in the day, by modern standards it is a peanut-whistle. Couldn't
take much power, and had virtually no linear stroke at all.

60W continuous IIRC. No Kapton back then I assume, or not in use as voice coil
formers. Didn't work very well as aircraft wiring insulation as it happens. It
cracked too easily and would arc over.

I recall coming back from Tunisia in a 727 where the lights kept flickering. It
wasn't a good feeling.

Nor was the baggage inspection on the way out from Heathrow. It was dumped on
the tarmac and you had to pick up your own luggage before they'd put it in the
hold and then you walked up the rear air stairs, ensuring at least you'd have to
be a suicide bomber one presumes.

Graham

[Arny Krueger]

"Eeyore" wrote in
message
Arny Krueger wrote:

Impressive in the day, by modern standards it is a
peanut-whistle. Couldn't take much power, and had
virtually no linear stroke at all.

60W continuous IIRC.

That's what I remember.

Of course, power amps with more than 60 watts were very rare in the days of
tubes.

I have a number of friends who used 30W woofers in the day, some of whom
still have working examples to this day. A good modern 10" driver could
out-displace a 30 W. In the day, even EV's later SP-12s were more
practical.

No Kapton back then I assume, or not
in use as voice coil formers. Didn't work very well as
aircraft wiring insulation as it happens. It cracked too
easily and would arc over.

Materials sciences of those days, particularly glues and insulation, were
hardly what they are today.

[Mr.T]

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
Impressive in the day, by modern standards it is a
peanut-whistle. Couldn't take much power, and had
virtually no linear stroke at all.

60W continuous IIRC.

That's what I remember.

Of course, power amps with more than 60 watts were very rare in the days
of
tubes.

Exactly, It's not the power handling that was important, it's the max
undistorted SPL, and many of those speakers would leave the now common mini
box speakers
for dead.

I have a number of friends who used 30W woofers in the day, some of whom
still have working examples to this day. A good modern 10" driver could
out-displace a 30 W. In the day, even EV's later SP-12s were more
practical.

Sure, as amplifiers got bigger, speakers got smaller, which suited more
people and rooms.

Materials sciences of those days, particularly glues and insulation, were
hardly what they are today.

So true, but some of those speakers weren't bad considering. The Patrician
wouldn't have been my choice personally, but I'd still have a Tannoy GRF or
JBL Hartsfield :-)

MrT.

[Arny Krueger]

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
u
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

(EV 30W) Impressive in the day, by modern standards it is a
peanut-whistle. Couldn't take much power, and had
virtually no linear stroke at all.

60W continuous IIRC.

That's what I remember.

Of course, power amps with more than 60 watts were very
rare in the days of tubes.

Exactly, It's not the power handling that was important,
it's the max undistorted SPL, and many of those speakers
would leave the now common mini box speakers
for dead.

The best speakers of the day roughly correspond to current accepted practice
for live sound. Since those days, live sound drivers got comparable thermal
and long-throw upgrades, and now make several times as many acoustic watts
in the same size boxes, but significantly deeper and cleaner.

I have a number of friends who used 30W woofers in the
day, some of whom still have working examples to this
day. A good modern 10" driver could out-displace a 30
W. In the day, even EV's later SP-12s were more
practical.

Sure, as amplifiers got bigger, speakers got smaller,
which suited more people and rooms.

Also, the economics were very favorable. Good sound cheaper always sells.

Materials sciences of those days, particularly glues and
insulation, were hardly what they are today.

So true, but some of those speakers weren't bad
considering. The Patrician wouldn't have been my choice
personally, but I'd still have a Tannoy GRF or JBL
Hartsfield :-)

I have a friend who in the 60s and 70s used a pair of Tannoy Monitor Golds
and a 30W modified with an accelerometer fastened to the voice coil, and
inside a servo system that used a Tigersaurus (ca. 200 wpc) for power.

Sounded great until the Tigersaurus slowly cooked the 30W voice coil and it
started to rub. The nonlinear loading of the rubbing made the servo system
emit strange noises, but it still basically worked.

[WindsorFox[_4_]]

Eeyore wrote:

Arny Krueger wrote:

Impressive in the day, by modern standards it is a peanut-whistle. Couldn't
take much power, and had virtually no linear stroke at all.

60W continuous IIRC. No Kapton back then I assume, or not in use as voice coil
formers. Didn't work very well as aircraft wiring insulation as it happens. It
cracked too easily and would arc over.

I recall coming back from Tunisia in a 727 where the lights kept flickering. It
wasn't a good feeling.

Nor was the baggage inspection on the way out from Heathrow. It was dumped on
the tarmac and you had to pick up your own luggage before they'd put it in the
hold and then you walked up the rear air stairs, ensuring at least you'd have to
be a suicide bomber one presumes.

Graham


Because he was looking for a Bose brand whose description resembles
an old JBL console offering??

--


I have never seen a computer infected by botnet.
How it is like? - Lemat


They sneeze bits all over teh internets. - Rev. Beergoggles

[isw]

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"PanHandler" wrote in message


As I was reading the thread on Bose 901 speakers I was
reminded of a Bose system of the mid-late sixties. It was
a single cabinet unit about 8' long by about 3' high and
had a convex curved front panel with ports (slots?) at
each end near the mid and high drivers. The curved panel
looked about 5½ feet wide. The model name was 'Patrician'
possibly with a suffix number.

As others have observed, it was the EV Patrician, of which there were a
chronological sequence of upgraded models.

It had a 30" woofer.

Impressive in the day, by modern standards it is a peanut-whistle. Couldn't
take much power, and had virtually no linear stroke at all.

I've heard that EV developed that 30" woofer as a replacement when they
lost their license to make Klipschorn clones -- and they lost it because
their "clones" deviated a bit too much, and performed a bit too poorly,
to satisfy PWK.

Isaac

[Arny Krueger]

"isw" wrote in message
]

I've heard that EV developed that 30" woofer as a
replacement when they lost their license to make
Klipschorn clones -- and they lost it because their
"clones" deviated a bit too much, and performed a bit too
poorly, to satisfy PWK.

That seems bass-ackwards to me. It is true that Klipsch started out using
EV drivers. He was a box-builder and systems integrator, not a builder of
speaker components. I don't know where the relatively small trickle of
drivers that EV sold to Klipsch affected EV's technical development or
business plans.

[Chris Hornbeck]

On Tue, 2 Dec 2008 08:38:25 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"isw" wrote in message
]

I've heard that EV developed that 30" woofer as a
replacement when they lost their license to make
Klipschorn clones -- and they lost it because their
"clones" deviated a bit too much, and performed a bit too
poorly, to satisfy PWK.

That seems bass-ackwards to me. It is true that Klipsch started out using
EV drivers. He was a box-builder and systems integrator, not a builder of
speaker components. I don't know where the relatively small trickle of
drivers that EV sold to Klipsch affected EV's technical development or
business plans.

Klipsch continued to use EV-made drivers for many decades, even
after buying the workings of a closing plant in Texas (Pyle?, and
all other details also pretty much lost to me by time - don't
*believe* any of this paragraph) and began their own driver
lines in Hope.

The classic Klipsch tweeter, used in the Klipschorns, LaScalas's,
Belle's, Cornwall's and Heresy's until 1983-1984 was the EV T-35.
Originally individually selected from raw factory production for
performance to 17KHz, eventually EV production allowed a batch
acceptance.

Many folks made woofers for Klipsch, including EV and other
prestige names, but the Eminence-made woofers seem to be the
best of the pre-1983/84 woofers.

Let's not talk about the midrange drivers.


Much thanks, as always,
Chris Hornbeck

[isw]

In article ,
Chris Hornbeck wrote:

On Tue, 2 Dec 2008 08:38:25 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"isw" wrote in message
]

I've heard that EV developed that 30" woofer as a
replacement when they lost their license to make
Klipschorn clones -- and they lost it because their
"clones" deviated a bit too much, and performed a bit too
poorly, to satisfy PWK.

That seems bass-ackwards to me. It is true that Klipsch started out using
EV drivers. He was a box-builder and systems integrator, not a builder of
speaker components. I don't know where the relatively small trickle of
drivers that EV sold to Klipsch affected EV's technical development or
business plans.

Klipsch continued to use EV-made drivers for many decades

The driver sets I bought from him in the mid- to late '60's are
definitely not EV units; I'm almost certain they are CTS. In any case,
"many decades" is a bit too long a time since the K-horn would only have
been in real production for something like 20 years when I bought mine
(he didn't really get started until after WWII).

Isaac

[isw]

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"isw" wrote in message
]

I've heard that EV developed that 30" woofer as a
replacement when they lost their license to make
Klipschorn clones -- and they lost it because their
"clones" deviated a bit too much, and performed a bit too
poorly, to satisfy PWK.

That seems bass-ackwards to me. It is true that Klipsch started out using
EV drivers. He was a box-builder and systems integrator, not a builder of
speaker components. I don't know where the relatively small trickle of
drivers that EV sold to Klipsch affected EV's technical development or
business plans.

I think the first woofer drivers Klipsch used were Stevens Tru-Sonic,
but as I recall being told, Stevens's quality control got poor, and
Klipsch had to go looking for another supplier (EV). EV provided drivers
to Klipsch, and he licensed EV to offer an enclosure kit called the
"Georgian", which was a (poorly) modified version of the Klipschorn (the
throat was "simplified" and didn't work as well, according to PWK). The
same unit may have also been available already assembled and finished; I
don't recall.

According to PWK, when he couldn't get EV to "fix" the Georgian throat
design, he cancelled the deal, and that's when EV built the 30-incher --
as an attempt to get similar low-end response without having to use
Klipsch's design.

Somewhat later, Klipsch was using CTS woofers; I don't know if there
were any others in between.

Isaac

[Eeyore]

PanHandler wrote:

As I was reading the thread on Bose 901 speakers I was reminded of a Bose
system of the mid-late sixties.

No. Electrovoice.


It was a single cabinet unit about 8' long
by about 3' high and had a convex curved front panel with ports (slots?) at
each end near the mid and high drivers. The curved panel looked about 5½
feet wide. The model name was 'Patrician' possibly with a suffix number. It
had a 30" woofer. I used to have an old Audio magazine from the era, and
there was a write-up on it, along with a photo. I've worn Google out looking
for info, but no joy on this particular 'Patrician'. Please... somebody tell
me I haven't lost my marbles and at least say "yeah, I seem to recall
something like that". Mebbe I'll sleep better hearing at least that much!
Many Thanx!

http://www.audiokarma.org/gallery/sh...php?photo=2518
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...threadid=19769
post 2. You need to register
http://www.savantaudio.com/evp800.html

How did you miss this on Google ?

Graham

[Kalman Rubinson[_3_]]

On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 22:17:10 -0600, "PanHandler"
wrote:

As I was reading the thread on Bose 901 speakers I was reminded of a Bose
system of the mid-late sixties. It was a single cabinet unit about 8' long
by about 3' high and had a convex curved front panel with ports (slots?) at
each end near the mid and high drivers. The curved panel looked about 5½
feet wide. The model name was 'Patrician' possibly with a suffix number. It
had a 30" woofer. I used to have an old Audio magazine from the era, and
there was a write-up on it, along with a photo. I've worn Google out looking
for info, but no joy on this particular 'Patrician'. Please... somebody tell
me I haven't lost my marbles and at least say "yeah, I seem to recall
something like that". Mebbe I'll sleep better hearing at least that much!
Many Thanx!

As others have pointed out, the Patrician was an EV speaker
and, even in those less litigious times, I doubt if EV would
have stood for use of their flagship's name by any
competitor.

That said, there was a predecessor to the Bose 901 which
used, iirc, 27 of the little drivers in a 1/8 sphere
enclosure designed to fit into a floor corner of the
listening room. It was shown/demonstrated at a NY HiFi show
but I do not know it it was ever marketed.

Kal

[[email protected]]

On Dec 1, 10:41 am, Kalman Rubinson wrote:
That said, there was a predecessor to the Bose 901 which
used, iirc, 27 of the little drivers in a 1/8 sphere
enclosure designed to fit into a floor corner of the
listening room. It was shown/demonstrated at a NY HiFi show
but I do not know it it was ever marketed.

Bose 2701. I have seen and heard a couple of them
that were in private hands, so it's likely there were
some small retail sales volume.

When I worked back at Lafayette radio in Boston in
the early 70's, hordes of MIT EE students would come
come in and buy the legendary FE-103 4" paper-come
speakers, always either 9 or 18 at a time, depending
upon how impoverished they were at the moment. I
knew lots of people at MIT at the time, and they said
there was a period where the engineering woodshop
was VERY busy making 901 clones

[[email protected]]

On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 22:17:10 -0600, PanHandler wrote:

As I was reading the thread on Bose 901 speakers I was reminded of a Bose
system of the mid-late sixties. It was a single cabinet unit about 8' long
by about 3' high and had a convex curved front panel with ports (slots?) at
each end near the mid and high drivers. The curved panel looked about 5½
feet wide. The model name was 'Patrician' possibly with a suffix number. It
had a 30" woofer. I used to have an old Audio magazine from the era, and
there was a write-up on it, along with a photo. I've worn Google out looking
for info, but no joy on this particular 'Patrician'. Please... somebody tell
me I haven't lost my marbles and at least say "yeah, I seem to recall
something like that". Mebbe I'll sleep better hearing at least that much!
Many Thanx!

I recall that there was an Electrovoice Patrician with a 30 inch
woofer. It was a gigantic 5 or 6 ft high monster built for corner
placement.

[mariarayan]

yes something similar to this was published in High
Fidelity magazine

Originally Posted by PanHandler[_2_]

As I was reading the thread on Bose 901 speakers I was reminded of a Bose
system of the mid-late sixties. It was a single cabinet unit about 8' long
by about 3' high and had a convex curved front panel with ports (slots?) at
each end near the mid and high drivers. The curved panel looked about 5½
feet wide. The model name was 'Patrician' possibly with a suffix number. It
had a 30" woofer. I used to have an old Audio magazine from the era, and
there was a write-up on it, along with a photo. I've worn Google out looking
for info, but no joy on this particular 'Patrician'. Please... somebody tell
me I haven't lost my marbles and at least say "yeah, I seem to recall
something like that". Mebbe I'll sleep better hearing at least that much!
Many Thanx!