[TonyP]

I own and have seen marketed "directional" audio rca interconnects. I
have also seen those that are not "directional".
Question, what makes some directional and others not? Is there a valid
reason for having a "direction"? Has it to do with grounding?

[Eeyore]

TonyP wrote:

I own and have seen marketed "directional" audio rca interconnects. I
have also seen those that are not "directional".
Question, what makes some directional and others not?

A near religious belief in audiophoolery.


Is there a valid reason for having a "direction"?

No.


Has it to do with grounding?

Nothing whatever but everything to do with marketing and charging more for the
same thing. Audio signals move 'both ways' you seee - like your loudspeaker cone
- so even if there was some bizarre electrical explanation for directional
electron movement in cables, it wouldn't apply to audio equipment.

See also 'linear crystal' and 'oxygen free' for other examples.



Graham

[AZ Nomad]

On Tue, 05 Dec 2006 19:47:24 -0500, TonyP wrote:


I own and have seen marketed "directional" audio rca interconnects. I
have also seen those that are not "directional".
Question, what makes some directional and others not? Is there a valid
reason for having a "direction"? Has it to do with grounding?

It is pseudo-scientific marketing hype. The idea is that balanced equipment
has the shield connected only on one end and separate signal runs for plus and
minus signal without relying on the shield for a signal reference.

The cables you own have the shield only connected at one end and a ground
wire running through connected to both ends.

The end result is that the shield progressively worsens as you get to ungrounded
end. The cable maker has an arrow indicating which end of the cable they think
ought to be grounded. In reality, it makes no difference which way you connect
them.

I'd suggest you throw the cables out as they're crap. Either get true balanced
equipment ($$$$) or just get plain cables with a single signal wire and the shield
connected at both ends.

[Todd H.]

TonyP writes:

I own and have seen marketed "directional" audio rca interconnects. I
have also seen those that are not "directional".
Question, what makes some directional and others not?

Marketing and paint.

Is there a valid reason for having a "direction"?

The only place where it makes a difference is in guitar cords that
have an autonulling feature, where the instrument has a shorting
sleeve on it so that you don't get a big thud/pop out of the amp when
it's unplugged.

Has it to do with grounding?

Has to do mostly with snake oil.

Expect this to be a long religious thread though. But here you have
one EE's informed opinion. Save your money!

Best Regards,
--
/"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | Todd H
\ / | http://www.toddh.net/
X Promoting good netiquette | http://triplethreatband.com/
/ \ http://www.toddh.net/netiquette/ | http://myspace.com/mytriplethreatband

[Laurence Payne]

On Tue, 05 Dec 2006 19:47:24 -0500, TonyP
wrote:

I own and have seen marketed "directional" audio rca interconnects. I
have also seen those that are not "directional".
Question, what makes some directional and others not? Is there a valid
reason for having a "direction"? Has it to do with grounding?

There is some (very) slight basis for grounding the shield at just one
end. But for practical purposes, it's bull****. (For speaker cables
it's bull**** squared)

[TonyP]

Laurence Payne wrote:
On Tue, 05 Dec 2006 19:47:24 -0500, TonyP
wrote:

I own and have seen marketed "directional" audio rca interconnects. I
have also seen those that are not "directional".
Question, what makes some directional and others not? Is there a valid
reason for having a "direction"? Has it to do with grounding?

There is some (very) slight basis for grounding the shield at just one
end. But for practical purposes, it's bull****. (For speaker cables
it's bull**** squared)

I have looked at cables with directional arrows and those with none. I
did not see a difference when I removed the rca shield. The shields seem
to be soldered at both ends, and the same colored wires soldered to the
hot pin.
I know there is a lot of snake oil out there. Magic blocks, pens, cable
lifters, etc.. This was something that I never thought about until I
decided to make some cables myself using Belden 89259 and 89207.
A mid winters night project so to speak.

[Barry Mann]

In , on 12/05/06
at 07:47 PM, TonyP said:

I own and have seen marketed "directional" audio rca interconnects. I
have also seen those that are not "directional".
Question, what makes some directional and others not? Is there a valid
reason for having a "direction"? Has it to do with grounding?

Refined snake oil.

I never saw the point in that approach.

If you have a pile of unfortunately designed equipment AND a ground
loop (Probably created by the unfortunate design), SOMETIMES, lifting
the shield connection at one end of the cable will help. This SOMETIMES
works as a last ditch "quickie" fix (when you don't have the time or
the skills for a proper fix).

There is a SLIGHT advantage to the directional cable if the shield is
lifted at one end, because they usually include a drain wire to tie the
outer RCA shells together. You could argue that the drain wire has less
resistance than the shield would, resulting in a lower potential
difference between the two units. Unfortunately, the drain is smacked
up against the signal wire and any magnetic or electric field
associated with the drain is closely coupled to the signal wire.
Granted, the drain could be outside the shield, but this is not what
I've seen in the field -- and a little copper braid or foil doesn't
block the magnetic field.

I've seen some directional cables using a non insulated drain. Since
the drain contacts the shield, disconnecting the shield at one end
accomplishes little.

---

When I first heard about "directional" cables I was afraid that the
manufacturer was about to tell me about a preferred electron flow
direction. Mercifully, that has not been the case, but I have seen a
few claims about equalizing group delay.

-----------------------------------------------------------
spam:
wordgame:123(abc):14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15
13 (Barry Mann)
[sorry about the puzzle, spammers are ruining my mailbox]
-----------------------------------------------------------

[Richard Crowley]

"TonyP" wrote ...
I own and have seen marketed "directional" audio rca interconnects. I
have also seen those that are not "directional".
Question, what makes some directional and others not? Is there a valid
reason for having a "direction"? Has it to do with grounding?

In some cases, the ground/shield is conneted at only one end.
The arrows would indicate that the destination would have
the ground connection, etc.

OTOH, any notion that cables can be made to be "better"
in one "direction" than the other is pure marketing fabrication
and is only meant to get extra $$$ out of your pocket and into
theirs. Consider just the fact that your audio is "AC" and
flows in both directions thousands of times per second.

I would NOT buy any cable that has arrows on it just
on the principle that the manufacturer/vendor is trying
to lie to me and trying to steal my money, and is unworthy
of my business. For the same reason, I avoid popular
"name brand" cables like Monster, et.al.

[Eeyore]

Richard Crowley wrote:

"TonyP" wrote ...
I own and have seen marketed "directional" audio rca interconnects. I
have also seen those that are not "directional".
Question, what makes some directional and others not? Is there a valid
reason for having a "direction"? Has it to do with grounding?

In some cases, the ground/shield is conneted at only one end.
The arrows would indicate that the destination would have
the ground connection, etc.

OTOH, any notion that cables can be made to be "better"
in one "direction" than the other is pure marketing fabrication
and is only meant to get extra $$$ out of your pocket and into
theirs. Consider just the fact that your audio is "AC" and
flows in both directions thousands of times per second.

I would NOT buy any cable that has arrows on it just
on the principle that the manufacturer/vendor is trying
to lie to me and trying to steal my money, and is unworthy
of my business. For the same reason, I avoid popular
"name brand" cables like Monster, et.al.

I've come across some very inexpensive but decent cables with nice solid RCA
'phono' connectors and decent quality cable on eBay btw such as.....
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/High-Quality-2...QQcmdZViewItem

You can't grumble for a tad over £4 inc P&P for a stereo connection !

Graham

[Geoff]

Barry Mann wrote:

There is a SLIGHT advantage to the directional cable if the shield is
lifted at one end, because they usually include a drain wire to tie
the outer RCA shells together.

This is not the reason the salemen will quote for a 'directional' cable.
They maintain that the cable sounds better with the electrons goiong that
direction. Especially after the cable is 'burned in' to optimise the
crystalline structure.

Yes, I know.....

geoff

[Richard Crowley]

"Eeyore" wrote ...
I've come across some very inexpensive but decent cables with nice solid
RCA
'phono' connectors and decent quality cable on eBay btw such as.....
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/High-Quality-2...QQcmdZViewItem

You can't grumble for a tad over £4 inc P&P for a stereo connection !

Seems reasonable, assuming decent cable.

OTOH the engraved "DIGITAL" on the connectors is a turn-off
for me. It is a clear indication that the sleazy marketing gerbs are
running the show.

[Eeyore]

Richard Crowley wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote ...
I've come across some very inexpensive but decent cables with nice solid
RCA 'phono' connectors and decent quality cable on eBay btw such as.....
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/High-Quality-2...QQcmdZViewItem

You can't grumble for a tad over £4 inc P&P for a stereo connection !

Seems reasonable, assuming decent cable.

OTOH the engraved "DIGITAL" on the connectors is a turn-off
for me. It is a clear indication that the sleazy marketing gerbs are
running the show.

I suspect they can't get connectors that *don't* have digital written on them now. Their RCA connectors are actually very nicely finished and
feel nice and solid and 'chunky'.

Graham

[GregS]

In article , Laurence Payne lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote:
On Tue, 05 Dec 2006 19:47:24 -0500, TonyP
wrote:

I own and have seen marketed "directional" audio rca interconnects. I
have also seen those that are not "directional".
Question, what makes some directional and others not? Is there a valid
reason for having a "direction"? Has it to do with grounding?

There is some (very) slight basis for grounding the shield at just one
end. But for practical purposes, it's bull****. (For speaker cables
it's bull**** squared)

Well there is really no ground available at the speaker.
Shielding cables at one end only is almost universal except in most cases using coax
or RCA signal cables. You can make a RCA signal cable without using shield as
return ground, and you can shield that cable attaching to ground at the end with the best ground
or lowest noise. In most home audio equipment, ground is not usually used anyway,
so attaching shield to only one end can either make things better or worse.

greg

[Laurence Payne]

On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 13:25:12 GMT, (GregS) wrote:

Well there is really no ground available at the speaker.
Shielding cables at one end only is almost universal except in most cases using coax
or RCA signal cables. You can make a RCA signal cable without using shield as
return ground, and you can shield that cable attaching to ground at the end with the best ground
or lowest noise. In most home audio equipment, ground is not usually used anyway,
so attaching shield to only one end can either make things better or worse.

I understand your first sentence, at least! :-)

[Arny Krueger]

"GregS" wrote in message


In article ,
Laurence Payne lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote:


There is some (very) slight basis for grounding the
shield at just one end. But for practical purposes,
it's bull****. (For speaker cables it's bull****
squared)

Well there is really no ground available at the speaker.

Right, the circuitry in a passive speaker floats. The impedance is so low
and the voltage levels are so high that it hardly matters.

Shielding cables at one end only is almost universal
except in most cases using coax or RCA signal cables.

Care to comment on the construction of your typical mic cable?

You can make a RCA signal cable without using shield as
return ground, and you can shield that cable attaching to
ground at the end with the best ground
or lowest noise.

You mean:

You can make a RCA cable using a signal wire for the negative signal lead,
and ground the shield at either end dependiung on what gives you the lowest
noise, in those rare case where it matters. ????

In most home audio equipment, ground is
not usually used anyway, so attaching shield to only one end can either
make
things better or worse.

?????????

[GregS]

In article , Laurence Payne lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote:
On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 13:25:12 GMT, (GregS) wrote:

Well there is really no ground available at the speaker.
Shielding cables at one end only is almost universal except in most cases
using coax
or RCA signal cables. You can make a RCA signal cable without using shield as
return ground, and you can shield that cable attaching to ground at the end
with the best ground
or lowest noise. In most home audio equipment, ground is not usually used
anyway,
so attaching shield to only one end can either make things better or worse.

I understand your first sentence, at least! :-)

A speaker cable would have to attach the shield to perhaps the common side of
the amplifier, if there is a common side, or use another drain wire attached
to a screw or something. There is the case when the shield is driven by the signal
to reduce capacitance effect, but the shielded speaker cable
can be very tricky. A torroid at the amp side is likely to be the best
thing to get rid of extranious noises and high powered AM stations nearby.

greg

[GregS]

In article , "Arny Krueger" wrote:
"GregS" wrote in message


In article ,
Laurence Payne lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote:


There is some (very) slight basis for grounding the
shield at just one end. But for practical purposes,
it's bull****. (For speaker cables it's bull****
squared)

Well there is really no ground available at the speaker.

Right, the circuitry in a passive speaker floats. The impedance is so low
and the voltage levels are so high that it hardly matters.

Shielding cables at one end only is almost universal
except in most cases using coax or RCA signal cables.

Care to comment on the construction of your typical mic cable?

You can make a RCA signal cable without using shield as
return ground, and you can shield that cable attaching to
ground at the end with the best ground
or lowest noise.

You mean:

You can make a RCA cable using a signal wire for the negative signal lead,
and ground the shield at either end dependiung on what gives you the lowest
noise, in those rare case where it matters. ????

Real equipment uses the shield only on one end, and uses different connectors
on each end so you don't screw it up.
Its almost universal, whatever has the lowest noise, is the best way at any
paticular time. Things can change over time.

In most home audio equipment, ground is
not usually used anyway, so attaching shield to only one end can either
make
things better or worse.

?????????

Most home audio equipment uses 2 wire AC and no ground. Most home audio
equipment uses the case as signal common or return and is not connected to ground.
Signal return should not be connected to ground for best noise control.

greg

[Arny Krueger]

"GregS" wrote in message

In article
, "Arny
Krueger" wrote:

"GregS" wrote in message


Shielding cables at one end only is almost universal
except in most cases using coax or RCA signal cables.

Care to comment on the construction of your typical mic
cable?

You can make a RCA signal cable without using shield as
return ground, and you can shield that cable attaching
to
ground at the end with the best ground
or lowest noise.

You mean:

You can make a RCA cable using a signal wire for the
negative signal lead, and ground the shield at either
end dependiung on what gives you the lowest noise, in
those rare case where it matters. ????

Real equipment uses the shield only on one end, and uses
different connectors on each end so you don't screw it up.

My recollection is that your typical mic cable follows the "differenct
connectors" rule, but also connects the shield to pin 1 at both ends.

Its almost universal, whatever has the lowest noise, is
the best way at any
paticular time. Things can change over time.

In most home audio equipment, ground is
not usually used anyway, so attaching shield to only
one end can either make
things better or worse.

?????????

Most home audio equipment uses 2 wire AC and no ground.

"most" in this case meaning more like a simple majority - more like 50% and
not like 95%.

Most home audio
equipment uses the case as signal common or return and is
not connected to ground.

Agreed. Ironically this is also true of much so-called high resolution
playback equipment (SACD & DVD-A). IME you can hope for 90 dB dynamic range
out of a random unbalanced connection. This is well shy of the 110 dB or so
that even medium-priced "high resolution audio players" specify.

Signal return should not be connected to ground for best
noise control.

But back in the real world...