[Arny Krueger]

"Sander deWaal" wrote in message

"Bret Ludwig" said:


The Quads were brilliantly designed but poorly
implemented. Modified upgraded ones sound extremely good
and a homebrew variant would be my choice to build a
homemade solid state amp. The current dumping circuit
worked really well. When combined with the Mc Power
Goose circuit (patent expired) and a butch power supply
they should be a very fine amp indeed.


http://quad405.com/

A certain Bernd Ludwig (popular name, that) modified the
405, and successfully, it seems.

Unfortunately, like most modifiers, he does not provide comprehensive test
reports on the *before* and especially the *after" amplifier, other than the
SOA. BTW, the SOA enhancment seems impressive.

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

Here in Ohio wrote:

You also have to consider that, while a power supply is cheap, the
associated downtime and recovery may not be.

Now you've lost Arns completely.

His time is valueless, you see.

________________________________

Arns Krueger (n. Vulgar): an insane asshole who is addicted to
harassing Normal people's preferences on the Usenet

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

Here in Ohio wrote [to Arns]:

Many engineers would disagree with you. :-)

Perhaps many engineers would disagree with Arns, but not many
'engineers' would. Arns is not, in fact, an engineer. He's an
'engineer.'

That's a huge difference.

_________________________________

Arns Krueger (n. Vulgar): an insane asshole who is addicted to
harassing Normal people's preferences on the Usenet

[Arny Krueger]

"Here in Ohio" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 10:16:16 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:


Generally unecessary. In most places in the US,
Canada, and Europe, the power has very few outages.
Power outages are more frustration than danger.

We were out for three days two years ago. But under the
circumstances we didn't give a **** about the stereo.

And if you do, you need something that runs off of gas,
gasolene, or diesel.

I guess you're suspending the laws of physics and
assuming that a generator set can come online instantly?

No more than it is impractical to run a house off of batteries for three
days. ;-)

Or maybe you just run the generator all the time and
switch to it when the power from the mains goes away? :-)

Or maybe tolerate the brief outage during switch-over.

UPSs are useful for providing power in between the power
from the power company going away and your generator
picking up the slack. This does tend, however, to put a
hit on the battery string, and batteries go bad. So, many
places are installing things like flywheel systems so
short blips in the power don't discharge your batteries.
That saves your batteries for the slightly longer period
between the power going out and your generator coming
online.

This makes sense for systems that have a lot of users, particularly users
who are decentralized. For household systems, brief interuptions can be
tolerated.

You might want to check
http://www.upsite.com/tuipages/white.../tuitiers.html
to see a Tier 1, 2, 3, etc datacenter is like.

I used to be intimately involved in designing, implementing, and running
that sort of thing.

But, a corporate data center is a vastly different thing from a home stereo.

Power conditioners are generally a moot point.

Frankly, I would not call the main power supply in a
power amp "highly filtered". Genearlly there is only
one stage of capacitive filtering, no inductors, and no
pi-network filtering. Furthermore, load that power amp
up and you'll often find volts of ripple on the main DC
power lines in the power amp. It's the output stage
that rejects the ripple and makes the output of the
power amp clean.

That's one reason the PA amps you love to extol do not
do that well in high end service. But not the primary
one.

I haven't seen a high end or other audiophile amp that
was that much different.

http://www.redesignsaudio.com/LNPA150.html

If one were concerned enough, it would not be hard to stuff 8 more power
supply filter caps into a QSC.


Most traditional solid state power amps have no voltage
regulation and in fact would benefit from regulating at
least up to the driver stage.

Nahh.

Many engineers would disagree with you. :-)

Most of them work for high end audio companies, and have relaxed
accountability for value.

OTOH regulating the output
stage linearly does make for a lot more weight and heat,
as big heatsinks are necessary.

There aren't a lot of power amps that have regulated
power supplies. The Dyna 120 was one of them, and there
was a Quad. AFAIK both are long out of production.

See the above LNPA150.

I'd like to see what a good solid listening test would show.

[Sander deWaal]

"Arny Krueger" said:


This makes sense for systems that have a lot of users, particularly users
who are decentralized. For household systems, brief interuptions can be
tolerated.


Agreed.

I would go even further: even not-so-brief, nay, infinite power
interruptions of *your* household can be tolerated. Easily.


**grin**

--
"Due knot trussed yore spell chequer two fined awl miss steaks."

[R. Stanton]

On Nov 17, 1:45 am, " wrote:
Rockinghorse Winner wrote:
I am about to upgrade my system, and I thought I'd start with replacing
my speaker cable and connects. I currently use 14 gauge zip cord and
gold plated Radio Shack interconnects. I have heard all the arguments
pro and con with the speaker cable vs zip cord. I don't wish to revive
that main discussion. I just have a few clarifying questions for the
skeptics out there.

First, supposing the incontrovertible: that for the average speaker
system, perceptible improvement ceases after a minimum of speaker cable
engineering. The question that comes to mind is, what are the minimum
requirements of a speaker cable before the price/performance curve
flattens to negligibility?

Second, what cable do YOU use for the purpose, and does your choice
align with what you advocate publically?

Rockinghorse Winner===================================

By this time Mr. Rockinghorse Winner you must have sizable headache..
That is if you take at all seriously the usual Audio..Opinion jousting.

The warriors can be usefully divided into two groups. Those who believe
that they learnt everything that there is to be known about relations
between physical characteristics of audio components and the human
brain receptors in their graduate study
and those who trust their ears.

You heard already the mantras about "wire is wire" (based on what the
textbooks know about cables in the month of October 2006 and the
chorus singing the mantras about the bias of sighted listening..

It is of course true- in the medical drug studies between 25 to 40 % of
subjects claim improvement when "treated " with pseudo drug. In other
words SOME people are bias victims. But of course it could be you.

The truth is that nobody can tell how a particular wrinkle in the cable
structure will affect *you *. Your sensitivity to differences is
determined by your interests, experience, age , hearing etc. A virtuoso
may hear enormous differences between violins that would completely
escape me.

So what to do.?

I listen. If I'm in no doubt about my preference I don't consult the
textbooks or the list of specifications..

I use what I call the left-right comparison method.

If interested see the appendix. There are no switches or software to
buy.
But you need a helpful or a devoted partner
.
Ludovic Mirabel

My approach centers frankly on preference. Insisting on
"difference and difference only" may be a prerequisite in research. An
audiophile wants help to exercise his consumer choice.

Secondly, while roughly level volumes between the left and
right side are desirable. Very exact levelling is not necessary.

Other common sense precautions a compare like with like:
testing a 400watt amp against a 5watt SET is waste of time.
You can not compare signal source against signal source this
way ie. a cdplayer against a cdplayer, turntable against a turntable.
You cannot compare speakers because that requires special
facilities for moving them fast to an exact position . Same of course
applies to ABX testing.
You can compare interconnects, power cables and power
controllers, interconnects, preamps, amps, dacs.
An obliging partner is a necessity.

1) Get a monophonic or near monophonic (eg. centred soprano) signal
source. MUSICAL, not an artefact.

2) On the left insert one component, on the right the OTHER ONE- (in
the case of interconnects using two of one kind together i.e.source to
preamp and preamp to amp on each side will give better contrast.)

3) Listen -write down your preference, get blinded.

4) An assistant now changes AT RANDOM (coin throw) both components
from one side to the other or (of course) leaves them where they are
keeping the records.

5) This is repeated minimum 15 times- for any length of time and with
interval for lunch if you like. EVERY TIME you note your
preference
The repetition and change are the CRUX.

At this point INVARIABLY someone says: No good, room sides differ,
levels differ subtly etc.
Answer;If there are differences between room sides, speaker volumes
etc. and yet you still prefer and locate one of the two component as
it moves from side to side surely, that REINFORCES the results- yes?
no?
Eg. The bass may be distorted on one side of your room but you still
have a statistically significant positive result: "I prefer the sound
of this preamp on EITHER side.bass or no bass"

The other theoretical objections from the people who never tried it
are of little interest. The inferences from other fields (eg.
research) are even less so. Apples and oranges. Even if they assure you
that the

Goddess of their kind of "science" is fighting on their side.

The comparison is not just supposedly "instantaneous"- it is
SIMULTANEOUS.
While comparing turn your head from side to side as much as you like.

If you have no preference give the component back to the shop. If
there is any difference it is not one that matters to you
- at this stage of your musical experience and preference.

NB. This is not a universally applicable "test". It is a method
that suits me because it involves no memory feats that are beyond me
and many others. I have no universal "scientific" pretensions. I only
use it to reassure myself that I'm not a victim of delusionary bias.



--

(nosey!)

I must write a few words in defence of "wire is wire".

Wire, let us say 20 ft of 12 gage speakercable, has a virtually flat
frequency response and zero distortion. That doesn't leave much room
for believing it colors sound.

Wire is only wire.

[Arny Krueger]

wrote in message
oups.com

My approach centers frankly on preference. Insisting
on "difference and difference only" may be a prerequisite
in research. An audiophile wants help to exercise his
consumer choice.

Mirabel's methodology has zero safeguards against false positives.
Furthermore, it is likely to generate them.


Secondly, while roughly level volumes between the
left and right side are desirable. Very exact levelling is not
necessary.

Unmatched levels are an excellent way to obtain the perception of
differences, even when comparing the same piece of equipment to itself.

Other common sense precautions a compare like
with like: testing a 400watt amp against a 5watt SET is
waste of time.

Not necessarily, as long as you operate both within recommended operating
limits.

You can not compare signal source
against signal source this
way ie. a cdplayer against a cdplayer, turntable against
a turntable.

More nonsense. Mirabel may not be able to conceive of how to do these
comparisions, but that speaks to Mirabel's lack of ingenuity, not any actual
technical limitation.

Same of course applies to ABX testing.

An illogical comparison, because ABX testing is not highly susceptible to
obtaining false positives, as Mirabel's methodlogy is.

[George M. Middius]

Arnii Krooborg, shouldn't you be atoning for your sins today? Tomorrow
is church day, after all.

Mirabel's methodology has zero safeguards against false positives.

Oh no! Not false positives! Is that at all related to Normal liking the
way an amplifier makes his speakers sound?

More nonsense.

Nonsense, you say? Are you sure it's not ... LIES?!

ABX testing is not highly susceptible to obtaining false positives

Yer damn right it's not. God forbid anybody ever get a false positive
while hooked up to an aBxism torture box.

Serious question for you, Mr. Krooger: If somebody wanted to purchase an
aBxism switchbox, how would he go about it?





--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

[George M. Middius]

Arnii Krooborg, shouldn't you be atoning for your sins today? Tomorrow is
church day, after all.

Mirabel's methodology has zero safeguards against false positives.

Oh no! Not false positives! Is that at all related to a Normal liking the
way an amplifier makes his speakers sound?

More nonsense.

Nonsense, you say? Are you sure it's not ... LIES?!

ABX testing is not highly susceptible to obtaining false positives

Yer damn right it's not. God forbid anybody ever get a false positive
while hooked up to an aBxism torture box.

Serious question for you, Mr. Krooger: If somebody wanted to purchase an
aBxism switchbox, how would he go about it?





--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

[Walt]

R. Stanton wrote:

I must write a few words in defence of "wire is wire".

Wire, let us say 20 ft of 12 gage speakercable, has a virtually flat
frequency response and zero distortion. That doesn't leave much room
for believing it colors sound.

It's flat up to about 100khz or so. Above that the self inductance and
the skin effect contribute to roll off. Some of the esoteric cables are
flat to well above 100khz. This is not important to me, but it appears
to be important to some.

Wire is only wire.

At audio frequencies, yes. At radio frequencies, the game changes.

//Walt

[R. Stanton]

On Nov 20, 10:33 am, Walt wrote:
R. Stanton wrote:

I must write a few words in defence of "wire is wire".

Wire, let us say 20 ft of 12 gage speakercable, has a virtually flat
frequency response and zero distortion. That doesn't leave much room
for believing it colors sound.It's flat up to about 100khz or so. Above that the self inductance and
the skin effect contribute to roll off. Some of the esoteric cables are
flat to well above 100khz. This is not important to me, but it appears
to be important to some.

Wire is only wire.At audio frequencies, yes. At radio frequencies, the game changes.

//Walt

The games changes again above radio frequencies. Microwaves are best
carried by solid aluminum channels, called wavequides. Than the game
changes again above microwave frequencies, where signals are carried by
fiberoptic strands. Above light frequencies, the game changes again.
X-rays.

Above X-rays the game changes again......... I think it is time to
stop. :-)

[Arny Krueger]

"Here in Ohio" wrote in message

On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 18:23:44 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Here in Ohio" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 10:16:16 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:


Generally unecessary. In most places in the US,
Canada, and Europe, the power has very few outages.
Power outages are more frustration than danger.

We were out for three days two years ago. But under
the circumstances we didn't give a **** about the
stereo.

And if you do, you need something that runs off of gas,
gasolene, or diesel.

I guess you're suspending the laws of physics and
assuming that a generator set can come online instantly?

No more than it is impractical to run a house off of
batteries for three days. ;-)

Even a generator won't necessarily save you then. If you
power it off of natural gas, the utilities may use
electricity to power their pumps and not have a good plan
in place for extended outages. (This was true in the town
I used to live in.)

That would be the exception. I used to work for a large gas utility, and our
infrastructure was all gas-powered, for several reasons. One was we didn't
like paying anybody else (in essence a competitor) for fuel, since fuel was
our business. Another was the fact that we had infrastructure out in the
middle of nowhere, and we didn't want to have to pay for power lines or
pipelines to be built for it. Another was that we had more confidence in
ourselves as our energy supplier than in others. Never caused a problem.

If you choose diesel, did you ever try calling your fuel
supplier and asking them what happens when the power goes
out? You can expect a long silence. :-)

It is entirely practical to stockpile enough diesel or gasolene for 3-5 days
of light use.

I feel that, for most uses, a UPS is more important than
a generator since an extended outage is going to shut you
down anyway, so your computers are just a small part of
your problems if power is out for 3 days. You want a UPS
to cover short outages (which are far, far more common
than long ones) and also to give you time to shut things
down if the outage lasts longer than a short period of
time.

Then you have to have the generators I recommend, anyway. The only remaining
issue is whether a momentary outage is worth protecting yourself against.

Yes, if you're Google or Intel, you want extended
runtime. Intel's main datacenter has triple-redundant
power, including generators, has about 1.5 MW of
capacity, and they store like 30,000 gallons of fuel
onsite.

The large data center I worked for in the 80s had about 0.5 MW of diesel
power, and kept about 10,000 gallons of fuel onsite. Hmm, same proportions.

However, most companies aren't willing to go to that
extent. In some cases, it doesn't even make sense. A
machine shop, for example, isn't going to be doing much
during an extended outage. It probably isn't worth it to
put in the kind of generators needed to keep things
running either. Is it then worthwhile keeping their
computer systems up and running over a 3 day outage?

Having lived through a number of extended (2-6 days) power shortages in the
past few years, only one of which was well-publicized, I see some romance to
a system that would be enough to keep just communications systems running
for 3-5 days. BTW, our gas supply never failed in any of those outages.

Or maybe you just run the generator all the time and
switch to it when the power from the mains goes away?
:-)

Or maybe tolerate the brief outage during switch-over.

You lose your work if that happens.

Just the current open document, and it may be protected by an autosave
facility.

Most modern databases are designed to sustain outages without permanent
damage.

XP is highly tolerant of having the plug pulled on it.

That's why people buy a UPS.

IME, mostly paranoia.

I'd like to hear you talking to my business users here
and explain to them how they can tolerate their systems
going down "briefly" while the generator comes up.

We obviously have customers with different needs and perceptions.

UPSs are useful for providing power in between the power
from the power company going away and your generator
picking up the slack. This does tend, however, to put a
hit on the battery string, and batteries go bad. So,
many places are installing things like flywheel systems
so short blips in the power don't discharge your
batteries. That saves your batteries for the slightly
longer period between the power going out and your
generator coming online.

This makes sense for systems that have a lot of users,
particularly users who are decentralized. For household
systems, brief interuptions can be tolerated.

Were we talking about home users exclusively?

Things got blurred.

[Arny Krueger]

"Here in Ohio" wrote in message

On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 10:33:09 -0500, Walt
wrote:

R. Stanton wrote:

I must write a few words in defence of "wire is wire".

Wire, let us say 20 ft of 12 gage speakercable, has a
virtually flat frequency response and zero distortion.
That doesn't leave much room for believing it colors
sound.

It's flat up to about 100khz or so. Above that the self
inductance and the skin effect contribute to roll off.
Some of the esoteric cables are flat to well above
100khz. This is not important to me, but it appears to
be important to some.

It's very important if you're entertaining bats and some
other small creatures.

I think that many of those bats are in the belfries of the
consumer-proponents of exotic audio cables.

[Harry Lavo]

"Here in Ohio" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 18:23:44 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Here in Ohio" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 10:16:16 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:


Generally unecessary. In most places in the US,
Canada, and Europe, the power has very few outages.
Power outages are more frustration than danger.

We were out for three days two years ago. But under the
circumstances we didn't give a **** about the stereo.

And if you do, you need something that runs off of gas,
gasolene, or diesel.

I guess you're suspending the laws of physics and
assuming that a generator set can come online instantly?

No more than it is impractical to run a house off of batteries for three
days. ;-)

Even a generator won't necessarily save you then. If you power it off
of natural gas, the utilities may use electricity to power their pumps
and not have a good plan in place for extended outages. (This was true
in the town I used to live in.)

If you choose diesel, did you ever try calling your fuel supplier and
asking them what happens when the power goes out? You can expect a
long silence. :-)

I feel that, for most uses, a UPS is more important than a generator
since an extended outage is going to shut you down anyway, so your
computers are just a small part of your problems if power is out for 3
days. You want a UPS to cover short outages (which are far, far more
common than long ones) and also to give you time to shut things down
if the outage lasts longer than a short period of time.

Yes, if you're Google or Intel, you want extended runtime. Intel's
main datacenter has triple-redundant power, including generators, has
about 1.5 MW of capacity, and they store like 30,000 gallons of fuel
onsite.

However, most companies aren't willing to go to that extent. In some
cases, it doesn't even make sense. A machine shop, for example, isn't
going to be doing much during an extended outage. It probably isn't
worth it to put in the kind of generators needed to keep things
running either. Is it then worthwhile keeping their computer systems
up and running over a 3 day outage?



Or maybe you just run the generator all the time and
switch to it when the power from the mains goes away? :-)

Or maybe tolerate the brief outage during switch-over.

You lose your work if that happens. That's why people buy a UPS.

I'd like to hear you talking to my business users here and explain to
them how they can tolerate their systems going down "briefly" while
the generator comes up.




UPSs are useful for providing power in between the power
from the power company going away and your generator
picking up the slack. This does tend, however, to put a
hit on the battery string, and batteries go bad. So, many
places are installing things like flywheel systems so
short blips in the power don't discharge your batteries.
That saves your batteries for the slightly longer period
between the power going out and your generator coming
online.

This makes sense for systems that have a lot of users, particularly users
who are decentralized. For household systems, brief interuptions can be
tolerated.

Were we talking about home users exclusively?

I was part-owner of a VAR that installed systems in about 150 clients over
seven years, and you are absolutely correct...we put an UPS in every
system....we wouldn't set up a business office or network without one at
each critical computer.

The most complex we ever did was the Riker's Island jail complex in NYC...23
separate clinics/pharmacies on UPS, plus the main data processing center
with redundant rollover and fail-safe Novell and Windows NT servers,
supported by UPS's, in turn supported by a double-generator system. Believe
me, they needed it. Seemed like the electricity went out for a half-hour or
more at least once a week.

[Harry Lavo]

"Here in Ohio" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 10:33:09 -0500, Walt
wrote:

R. Stanton wrote:

I must write a few words in defence of "wire is wire".

Wire, let us say 20 ft of 12 gage speakercable, has a virtually flat
frequency response and zero distortion. That doesn't leave much room
for believing it colors sound.

It's flat up to about 100khz or so. Above that the self inductance and
the skin effect contribute to roll off. Some of the esoteric cables are
flat to well above 100khz. This is not important to me, but it appears
to be important to some.

It's very important if you're entertaining bats and some other small
creatures.

Or listening to Gamelan music.

(that's an "in" joke for Arny and other trespassers from RAHE)

[Arny Krueger]

"Harry Lavo" wrote in message

"Here in Ohio" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 10:33:09 -0500, Walt
wrote:

R. Stanton wrote:

I must write a few words in defence of "wire is wire".

Wire, let us say 20 ft of 12 gage speakercable, has a
virtually flat frequency response and zero distortion.
That doesn't leave much room for believing it colors
sound.

It's flat up to about 100khz or so. Above that the self
inductance and the skin effect contribute to roll off. Some of the
esoteric cables are flat to well above
100khz. This is not important to me, but it appears to
be important to some.

It's very important if you're entertaining bats and some
other small creatures.

Or listening to Gamelan music.

Note that Harry fails to grasp the well-known fact that musical instruments
that create ultrasonics abound. The rare item is even one human who can
consciously perceive them.

[MiNe 109]

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"Harry Lavo" wrote in message

"Here in Ohio" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 10:33:09 -0500, Walt
wrote:

R. Stanton wrote:

I must write a few words in defence of "wire is wire".

Wire, let us say 20 ft of 12 gage speakercable, has a
virtually flat frequency response and zero distortion.
That doesn't leave much room for believing it colors
sound.

It's flat up to about 100khz or so. Above that the self
inductance and the skin effect contribute to roll off. Some of the
esoteric cables are flat to well above
100khz. This is not important to me, but it appears to
be important to some.

It's very important if you're entertaining bats and some
other small creatures.

Or listening to Gamelan music.

Note that Harry fails to grasp the well-known fact that musical instruments
that create ultrasonics abound. The rare item is even one human who can
consciously perceive them.

That's the joke Harry referred to in the portion of his post you deleted:

"(that's an "in" joke for Arny and other trespassers from RAHE)"

The judges would also have accepted "listening to lps of Harmon-muted
trumpets."

Stephen

[Arny Krueger]

"MiNe 109" wrote in message

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"Harry Lavo" wrote in message

"Here in Ohio" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 10:33:09 -0500, Walt
wrote:

R. Stanton wrote:

I must write a few words in defence of "wire is
wire".

Wire, let us say 20 ft of 12 gage speakercable, has a
virtually flat frequency response and zero
distortion. That doesn't leave much room for
believing it colors sound.

It's flat up to about 100khz or so. Above that the
self inductance and the skin effect contribute to
roll off. Some of the esoteric cables are flat to
well above 100khz. This is not important to me, but
it appears to
be important to some.

It's very important if you're entertaining bats and
some other small creatures.

Or listening to Gamelan music.

Note that Harry fails to grasp the well-known fact that
musical instruments that create ultrasonics abound. The
rare item is even one human who can consciously perceive
them.

That's the joke Harry referred to in the portion of his
post you deleted:

"(that's an "in" joke for Arny and other trespassers from
RAHE)"

The judges would also have accepted "listening to lps of
Harmon-muted trumpets."

So Stephen, you're saying that Harry's contention that humans hear
ultraonics is a joke? You're being too kind - its an obsession.

[MiNe 109]

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"MiNe 109" wrote in message

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"Harry Lavo" wrote in message

"Here in Ohio" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 10:33:09 -0500, Walt
wrote:

R. Stanton wrote:

I must write a few words in defence of "wire is
wire".

Wire, let us say 20 ft of 12 gage speakercable, has a
virtually flat frequency response and zero
distortion. That doesn't leave much room for
believing it colors sound.

It's flat up to about 100khz or so. Above that the
self inductance and the skin effect contribute to
roll off. Some of the esoteric cables are flat to
well above 100khz. This is not important to me, but
it appears to
be important to some.

It's very important if you're entertaining bats and
some other small creatures.

Or listening to Gamelan music.

Note that Harry fails to grasp the well-known fact that
musical instruments that create ultrasonics abound. The
rare item is even one human who can consciously perceive
them.

That's the joke Harry referred to in the portion of his
post you deleted:

"(that's an "in" joke for Arny and other trespassers from
RAHE)"

The judges would also have accepted "listening to lps of
Harmon-muted trumpets."

So Stephen, you're saying that Harry's contention that humans hear
ultraonics is a joke? You're being too kind - its an obsession.

I missed where Harry said humans "hear" ultrasonics. Speaking of
obsession, you're hard on his heals this morning. Be careful to avoid
one of those '"Taming of the Shrew" in reverse' exchanges that give the
rest of us so much amusement.

Stephen

[Walt]

R. Stanton wrote:
On Nov 20, 10:33 am, Walt wrote:
R. Stanton wrote:


Wire is only wire.

At audio frequencies, yes. At radio frequencies, the game changes.

The games changes again above radio frequencies. Microwaves are best
carried by solid aluminum channels, called wavequides. Than the game
changes again above microwave frequencies, where signals are carried by
fiberoptic strands. Above light frequencies, the game changes again.
X-rays.

Above X-rays the game changes again......... I think it is time to
stop. :-)

What? Give up simply because the frequecies in question are inaudible?

Shirley you jest.

//Walt

[Rockinghorse Winner]

Sorry, been away from the computer, have been working a lot of overtime
and have to read/post to messages in spurts. Not that I post and run,
which is rude, but it m ay appear like that, I know.

--

Thanks to all for your comments and suggestions. I can't tell you how
helpful it's been. I think, with my short 12 foot runs, I am going to
save my money and stay with my zip cord. I can't imagine the DC
resistance or impedance being much on 14 gauge cable at audio freq.

I fixed the intermittent problem with my 2325 (from overhearing a point
on this forum, about the importance of good speaker termination connex,
I found to my horror that my *solderless* banana plugs were not making
good contact with the wire, causing breaking up at high volume, duh!),
and now I am enjoying a 2nd honeymoon with my old receiver. But the
audio sounds so good, so *high-end* that I honestly despair of having it
be appreciably *better* by spending $$$ on speaker cable, to the point
where I can't be bothered with even trying out a set of them.

The interconnects are easy to swap and compare and will attempt to find
a store with a liberal return policy and employ my gf/research subject
in some blind tests.

But I do wonder how much better a new Musical Fidelity or Rotel or B & K
amp would sound compared with the 1970's technology, and may have to try
one out before too long to satisfy my curiosity. Or, maybe I just want a
new shiny toy .



--

god bless

Rockinghorse Winner



http://www.Hello-Radio.Com

http://home.xandros.com/products/home/home_edition.html

http://www.drudgereport.com/irak.jpg
















(nosey!)

[Sander deWaal]

Rockinghorse Winner said:

I fixed the intermittent problem with my 2325 (from overhearing a point
on this forum, about the importance of good speaker termination connex,
I found to my horror that my *solderless* banana plugs were not making
good contact with the wire, causing breaking up at high volume, duh!),
and now I am enjoying a 2nd honeymoon with my old receiver. But the
audio sounds so good, so *high-end* that I honestly despair of having it
be appreciably *better* by spending $$$ on speaker cable, to the point
where I can't be bothered with even trying out a set of them.


You could consider having it recapped, and replace defective pots and
switches.

Those '70s receivers are indestructible, and some of them even soujd
good ;-)

I have one of my amplifiers for about 14 years now (a Lux L100), and
though I modified it, I wouldn't miss the tone control possibilities.

They don't make 'em like that any more.

Be sure to hang on your Marantz, a new shiny toy may be the biggest
disappointment of your life.

Just my 0.02 mV.

--
"Due knot trussed yore spell chequer two fined awl miss steaks."

[Rockinghorse Winner]

said:

You could consider having it recapped, and replace defective pots and
switches.

I dont think the capacitors need replacing. Doesn't seem to cut out
indiscriminately, and no clicks and pops that I can hear. I was told
that the pots and switches are not available, and you have to simply
make do with swishing them out once in a while. I may do this. I just
cleaned the outside and boy, does it look lovely now! Now, I just need
to replace those pesky lights...

I wouldn't miss the tone control possibilities.



I used to play with the tone controls (that midrange control is
something else!), but learned it was a lesson in futility and
frustration, and now I just leave it on bypass. I engage the loudness
when listening to classical at low volume.

but I'm going to heed your advice and stick by my Marantz for now.
Though I wouldn't be averse to auditioning a new amp if I can get my
hands on one.

--
god bless

Rockinghorse Winner



http://www.Hello-Radio.Com

http://home.xandros.com/products/home/home_edition.html

http://www.drudgereport.com/irak.jpg
















(nosey!)

[R. Stanton]

On 20 Nov., 13:29, Here in Ohio wrote:
On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 10:33:09 -0500, Walt
wrote:

R. Stanton wrote:

I must write a few words in defence of "wire is wire".

Wire, let us say 20 ft of 12 gage speakercable, has a virtually flat
frequency response and zero distortion. That doesn't leave much room
for believing it colors sound.

It's flat up to about 100khz or so. Above that the self inductance and
the skin effect contribute to roll off. Some of the esoteric cables are
flat to well above 100khz. This is not important to me, but it appears
to be important to some.It's very important if you're entertaining bats and some other small
creatures.

The point is that 12 gage wire is more than good enough. No magic
speakercables needed.

[R. Stanton]

On 21 Nov., 15:59, Walt wrote:
R. Stanton wrote:
On Nov 20, 10:33 am, Walt wrote:
R. Stanton wrote:
Wire is only wire.
At audio frequencies, yes. At radio frequencies, the game changes.

The games changes again above radio frequencies. Microwaves are best
carried by solid aluminum channels, called wavequides. Than the game
changes again above microwave frequencies, where signals are carried by
fiberoptic strands. Above light frequencies, the game changes again.
X-rays.

Above X-rays the game changes again......... I think it is time to
stop. :-)What? Give up simply because the frequecies in question are inaudible?

Shirley you jest.

//Walt

Don't call me Shirley! :-(

[Powell]

"Rockinghorse Winner" wrote

But the audio sounds so good, so *high-end* that I honestly despair of
having it be appreciably *better* by spending $$$ on speaker cable, to the
point where I can't be bothered with even trying out a set of them.

"can't be bothered"... Broke-A$$. ))

[Powell]

"R. Stanton" wrote

The point is that 12 gage wire is more than good enough.
No magic speakercables needed.

Ring, Ring, RING... clue phone call for a mr. Stanton.
Can your take it, please!

[R. Stanton]

On 22 Nov., 09:53, "Powell" wrote:
"R. Stanton" wrote

The point is that 12 gage wire is more than good enough.
No magic speakercables needed.Ring, Ring, RING... clue phone call for a mr. Stanton.
Can your take it, please!

Hello?

[R. Stanton]

On 22 Nov., 17:55, "R. Stanton" wrote:
On 22 Nov., 09:53, "Powell" wrote:

"R. Stanton" wrote

The point is that 12 gage wire is more than good enough.
No magic speakercables needed.Ring, Ring, RING... clue phone call for a mr. Stanton.
Can your take it, please! Hello?

I answered, but nobody was there. I guess the person who called, didn't
have a clue.

[Powell]

"Arny Krueger" wrote

If your budget is above $500 or so you might
consider a power line conditioning

Snake oil if there ever was any, except in a few rare
conditions.
Not that you have any empirical experiences on
the subject, dote.

Delusions of omnisicence noted. In fact I have a fairly
large and effective power conditioner at my disposal.

Gas-bag, you've already posted that your only
experience with a line conditioner is a 1968
Studebaker/Onan.

snip quacking

Quack, quack, quack...

And that folks, is what a Powell melt-down looks like.
Hehehe... if true I'm pretty benign then. Not malignant
like you, wouldn't you agree?

[George M. Middius]

Powell said to Mr. ****:

And that folks, is what a Powell melt-down looks like.

Hehehe... if true I'm pretty benign then. Not malignant
like you, wouldn't you agree?

Aren't malignancies, technically speaking, aberrations of processes in
living beings? I think the most accurate term for Krooger is "toxic".




--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.