Hi all,

I have bought the following system based on a review from what-hifi

Roksan Kandy MKIII amplifier

Arcam CD73 CD player

Quad 11L speakers

QED silver aniversary bi-wire speaker cable.

Merlin Chopin interconnects

Partington Dreadnought Speaker stands.

OK so I was expecting miracles. but the whole thing just
seems....Uninspiring.... I have heard review stating that the
combination is great, the bass and detail should be excellent. But it
all seems a little drab and I cannot hear a lot of detail. It seems a
bit muddy
when theres a lot of instruments in the music.

Now I know that the Quads do pump garbadge out if thats what they are
fed so perhaps Im expecting too much. I like rock, indie, that kind of
stuff but read that this setup, despite the size, would cope well. Im
not only after bass
but I'm after a soundstage etc

The speakers are about 3 meters apart, angled in so that they are about
20 degrees. They are about 30 cms back from the wall and stood next to
a pair of shelves , one next to each speaker. One of the speakers is in
a corner, which of
course is far from ideal but due to the constraints of the room.

Im after overall advice really. does all the stuff really match..What
must i change to get this working. Is it all just plain WRONG ! I
suspect positioning will play a big part. Its possible also the the
mains is dirty as it shares a power socket with a tv, xbox, etc.

many thanks in advance for any help,

james

Reply
--
NewsGuy.Com 30Gb $9.95 Carry Forward and On Demand Bandwidth

wrote:
Hi all,

I have bought the following system based on a review from what-hifi

Buying based on magazine reviews is not a good way to assemble a
system.

Roksan Kandy MKIII amplifier

Arcam CD73 CD player

Quad 11L speakers

Each of these is probably a good component by itself. But this is a
system that, at US prices, devotes just 25% of its budget to speakers.
I'd have aimed for 50.

QED silver aniversary bi-wire speaker cable.

Merlin Chopin interconnects

Partington Dreadnought Speaker stands.

OK so I was expecting miracles. but the whole thing just
seems....Uninspiring.... I have heard review stating that the
combination is great, the bass and detail should be excellent.

Bass cannot be excellent from a box that size. It can sound fine,
depending on the type of music you listen to, but it's not going to
reach very low, or play very loud.

But it
all seems a little drab and I cannot hear a lot of detail. It seems a
bit muddy
when theres a lot of instruments in the music.

Now I know that the Quads do pump garbadge out if thats what they are
fed so perhaps Im expecting too much. I like rock, indie, that kind of
stuff but read that this setup, despite the size, would cope well. Im
not only after bass
but I'm after a soundstage etc

If that's the kind of music you like, I'm not sure you picked the right
speakers.

The speakers are about 3 meters apart, angled in so that they are about
20 degrees. They are about 30 cms back from the wall and stood next to
a pair of shelves , one next to each speaker. One of the speakers is in
a corner, which of
course is far from ideal but due to the constraints of the room.

Speaker placement can be critical, but there's no way to place speakers
like that in any decent sized room and get great bass. The best you
could do is push them close to the wall, and go for a little
reinforcement that way. That probably won't do wonders for your
soundstage, however.

Im after overall advice really. does all the stuff really match..What
must i change to get this working. Is it all just plain WRONG ! I
suspect positioning will play a big part. Its possible also the the
mains is dirty as it shares a power socket with a tv, xbox, etc.

As I said, positioning alone is unlikely to help in this case. And
unless the Roksan is a lousy design, I doubt the "dirty mains" is a
problem, either.

I suspect that "send it all back and start over" is not going to be
practical advice in your case. So here's my practical advice: Buy a
subwoofer. It will fill out the sound and give you back some of what
you're lacking right now. And you'll still get a decent soundstage out
of the monitors.

bob


--

With all due respect, if you purchase a system unaudited, you are
purchasing a pig in a poke... however expensive it might be. And
usually not a particularly healthy pig at that.

Lets start with the weakest link: The Quad 11L is nearly useless below
200Hz, and silent below 80Hz. So forget about bass altogether. They
also must be within 20cm (or less) of the wall to have any bass at all.
And they are pretty much DOA above ~14kHz or so anyway.

Next, cables and interconnects:

As compared to standard off-the-shelf 16ga. 'zip' in lengths of ten
feet or less, all speaker cables are the same as far as anything short
of hyper-sensitive instruments are concerned. And most of those.

As compared to reasonable quality US$10/meter off-the-shelf patch
cords, all 'interconnects' are the same, as above.

Other stuff:

As compared to any CD player with a decent transport and up-to-date DAC
chips, all CD players are the same.

Speaker-stands are smoke-and-mirrors 100% of the time and without
exception (to be redundant). Any block of wood would serve the same
purpose.

The amp seems reasonably good, likely the best part of your system in
terms of cost/benefit. Barely. ~US$900 is an insane amount of money to
pay for a 100-watt SS integrated amp. But as I noted, it looks good on
paper. I would not purchase such without hearing it, however.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA


--

HI Bob,

Cheers for the advice. I have as subwoofer for my dolby pro logic setup
but its not integrated into the system.

The bass Im after is not necessarliy low but well defined. I do except
that these speakers will not go low but they should be well formed and
not boomy, which sometimes mine are.

I would guess that putting one of my speakers in a corner is a really
bad thing to do and also next to two tall shelves is probably causing a
lot of reflections that are muddling up the sound.

Im moving house soon as hopefully i will be able to free stand the
speakers, that is not next to shelves or any other things that could
mess with the sound.

As it is I shall have to live with my quads. Im sure that somewhere in
there is a good sound trying to get out.

Thanks for the help,

James.


--

James,

Are these results "out of the box," or have you done a couple of
hundred hours of burn-in? I realize that there are varying opinions on
the subject, but why not give it a try? In my personal experience, the
sonic character of audio equipment evolves audibly in the process.

David


--

Thanks Peter,

Its certainly hard to disagree with you with you statement on buying
without auditioning.
With my inexperiance of the Spanish language and the lack of good hifi
shops, in general, in madrid, I felt compelled to follow the advice of
an english hifi magazine, which was probably a dumb idea.

Nonthless, all the components, in isolation at least, have won awards.
The cd player especially is a good unit. However, its often does not
matter how good the components are individually but how they gell
together. Perhaps mine simply do not, although the review would suggest
otherwise.

Obvously at will be while coming but can you sugges a good set of stand
mounted speakers that will give me what I want, that is detail and
bass. I guess, whatever speaker I use, I could still be in for a rocky
ride having the speakers sited the way they are. This is something
which MUST change irrespective of the speaker.


James.


--

Hi David.

The equipment is over 1 year old but its hard to say how many hours
they have done in total.

I have moved the speakers from their previous position, one was in a
corner.

The sound has definately improved....How to put this..they sound calmer
now, not so muddy and the bass has improved a lot, in terms of
extension and quality.

They are still next to two big bookshelfs so thinks would be better
perhaps still if they were not sited that way.

Howver, things are getting better, and that is something...

James


--

David wrote:

Are these results "out of the box," or
have you done a couple of hundred
hours of burn-in?

The only thing that will "burn in" is your ears. By listening a couple
of hundred hours, your ears will get accustomed to the sound. The
components will not change.


---MIKE---
In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
(44=B0 15' N - Elevation 1580')


--

The only thing that will "burn in" is your ears.

Yep.

Tubes burn in within 20 hours. More-or-less permanently.
Transistors within 3 hours. Permanently.
Caps burn in within 20 minutes, but do so each time they are idle for
more than 10 days or so.

Your system is well-and-truly burnt in.

Sadly, your ears have no retention.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA


--

James:

If bass and a sound-stage is what you want, and size is an issue, look
for a _very_ old-fashioned (but perhaps newly made) 2-way or 3-way
speaker with at least an 8" woofer. You have *lots* of power, so you
can afford to spend that power to have a speaker that can actually do
work.

Cambridge Sound Works M80
Boston Acoustics CR85

Come to mind off-hand as speakers with decent bass and reasonable size,
with very flat response curves.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA


--