"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
"Then how do you explain the fact that high-end salons have a steady
stream of customers, many of them repeat customers?"

For the same reason astrologers and fortune tellers have a steady
stream of customers. High-end folk sell image and hope that the
marketing
pitch is really true and all the perceptions the brain can conjure
tell
them it is true, as the choir of their peers and the audio mags cheer
them
on, just like believers in astrology and esp.

What you say is partly true. I see no point in assessing the
percentage.
But
the high end also includes components of great merit.
In an argument, the middle ground gets lost.

Do you believe there is no middle ground?

The real High in high end is still almost exclusively speakers. While it
may be possible to find gear that has some problems passing a signal that
sounds different from the source being fed to it, it is more difficult
than
finding speakers that sound different.

Then you must be a real high end piece, Mikey, as you are a perfect parrot
of Arny Krueger.

So, by your reckoning, it's bad to reapeat the truth? What diffference does
it make who said it, as long as it is the truth?

Mikey Bug-Eater eyes a snack. Oops, too slow. He stirs again. Will he make the
grab this time?

Nothing wrong with spending whatever someone wants for their gear, but

Except when you know about it.

people should be aware of the fact that it doesn't get them better sound as
the manufacturers and SP type reviewers would like us to believe.

Nobody wants you to believe anything. All they want is for you to buy their
stuff.

Apparently you believe nobody can enjoy their stereo unless they've been
brainwashed. Too bad your brain is too pickled to respond to ordinary stimuli.

Mikey casts a spell of Concentrated Irony.

I am completely un-dogmatic. I update my ideas and beliefs when there is a
reason to do so.

bwahahahaha! LOL! ROTFL! etc.

For you, "update" apparently means "buy into whacko loony crackpot fringe
crapola". You do that with great frequency.

Mickey, thank you for correcting my error.

Then you must be a real high end piece, Mikey, as you are a perfect parrot
of Arny Krueger.

So, by your reckoning, it's bad to reapeat the truth? What diffference does
it make who said it, as long as it is the truth?

I just got finished telling Robert you do generally know the difference between
truth and lies. Now you go and prove me wrong. Oh well. Have fun in the Hive!

" wrote in message
ink.net...


..
I am completely un-dogmatic. I update my ideas and beliefs when there is
a reason to do so.


Never mind that they don't work.

" wrote in message
nk.net...


Then you must be a real high end piece, Mikey, as you are a perfect
parrot
of Arny Krueger.

So, by your reckoning, it's bad to reapeat the truth? What diffference
does it make who said it, as long as it is the truth?


Was Arnie telling the truth when he accused Atkinson of emailing him
kiddie porn, or was Arnie telling the truth when he accused George Middius
of emailing him kiddie pron, or was Arnie telling the truth when he accused
Dave Weil of emailing him kiddie porn, or Was Arnie telling the truth when
he accused Scot Wheeler of emailing him kiddie porn, or was Arnie telling
the
truth when he accused me of emailing him kiddie porn. Was Arnie telling
the truth that ANYBODY sent him kiddie porn. Didn't Arny later say that a
MSP
investigator told him it was not kiddie porn? Wouldn't it make
sense that one would not make such hideous accusations if
it weren't obvious that the porn in question was kiddie porn?

Clyde Slick said:

Wouldn't it make
sense that one would not make such hideous accusations if
it weren't obvious that the porn in question was kiddie porn?

If somebody did email Mr. **** kiddie porn, and he thought it was one of
his RAO tormentors, what stopped him from turning in whoever it was?
Nothing, I suspect, other than the FACT there was no porn.

Clyde Slick wrote:

Any relation to Grace?

"paul packer" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 09:56:52 +0300, "Iain M Churches"
wrote:


No doubt. I really meant if I were to build it. :-)

Then you should start with a kit., Paul. It's a good and very safe
way to take the first step.

To be honest, Iain, I have built small kit headphone amps etc over the
years, but my eyes just won't allow it anymore. I'm flat out seeing
the circuit board these days, let alone being let loose with a
soldering iron.

A pair of magnifying specs from the $2 shop may open up a whole new world
for you Paul.
Take a postage stamp with you when you try them out. Get a pair that
reveals the level of detail you require. Of course, point to point wiring
in a valve amp might not be so challenging on the sight.
Good bright lighting helps. An articulated lamp from Ikea won't break the
piggy bank and fitted with one of those 20W fluoro bulbs, they throw out
surprisingly bright light and are cool at the same time.

Cheers,
Alan

"Ayn Marx" wrote in message
ups.com...

Clyde Slick wrote:

Any relation to Grace?


Here's some fodder for the cannon!
There is no Grace in my family.

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
u...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...
Chinese manufacturing technology is scarily good, a challenge to the
future
of our nation, a challenge I think we will lose.

Will lose?
Already lost more likely.
But eventually the Chinese people will catch up, just like Japan did, then
it will probably be Africa's turn.

MrT.

The Chinese have too large a potential labor pool. This will keep labor
costs low for a much longer period of time than the American economy can
tolerate.

" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...


" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

" wrote in message
ink.net...

[snip]

ididots like Middius and you
are the people who understand that measurements have actual
meanbing
and
that when two devices meansure similarly enough, they sound the
same.

Mikey, if you ever find an "ididot" with "meanbing" and similar
"meansure",
let me know.

You realize, don't you, that your inferior mind is the cause of
these
mistakes?


I realize that my typing skills and my forgetting to use the spell
check
feature allow such mistakes to get through. I also realize that you
claim
to believe that makes me somehow your inferior. The problem of
course,
is
how little you seem to understand about your own failings and what a
putz
you appear to be when you dwell on my problems while turning a blind
eye
to so many more important problems.

Do continue though, it can only weaken your standing (assuming that's
still possible) to constantly reveal how petty you are.


I more or less ignore your typos, I make a lot of them
myself. You are an idiot because everything you think is
filtered through several unworkable dogmas.

This is true. You work on the idiocy of the position; I'll work on the
idiocy of the idiot.

Why not gruuunnt work on urrrrghhh being less greeeeek of an idiot gruuunt
yourself.

Do you understand the meaning and use of the question mark?

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

" wrote in message
ink.net...


.
I am completely un-dogmatic. I update my ideas and beliefs when there
is
a reason to do so.


Never mind that they don't work.

His brain obviously isn't running Genuine Windows.

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

"Ayn Marx" wrote in message
ups.com...

Clyde Slick wrote:

Any relation to Grace?


Here's some fodder for the cannon!
There is no Grace in my family.

Is there an Oil?

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

"Ayn Marx" wrote in message
ups.com...

Clyde Slick wrote:

Any relation to Grace?


Here's some fodder for the cannon!
There is no Grace in my family.

Is there an Oil?



Does Earl from the Bronx count?

On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 13:59:46 GMT, Jenn
wrote:

I'm all charged up about vinyl

Careful you don't charge the vinyl--it'll attract dust.

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

"Ayn Marx" wrote in message
ups.com...

Clyde Slick wrote:

Any relation to Grace?


Here's some fodder for the cannon!
There is no Grace in my family.

Is there an Oil?



Does Earl from the Bronx count?

Of course. I was giving the just-off-the-boat pronounciation.

On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 17:30:26 GMT, "
wrote:


That's pretty much been my point for some time. If you pay more for an amp,
CD player, or whatever, you don't get better sound, you get bragging rights.
Once you achieve flat response without any form of audible distortion or
noise, and the ability to drive difficult loads, you have a perfect piece of
equipment. Adding heavy faceplates or designer caps, and coils, doesn't
really get you better sound, but it might get you a longer product life.

So you're saying that an amp costing $5000 is not going to sound any
better than one costing $300 providing both measure well and drive
difficult loads? Have you tested this theory? Have you truly satisfied
yourself that nothing is to be gained by spending more? If not your
assertion means nothing.

In article ,
(paul packer) wrote:

On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 13:59:46 GMT, Jenn
wrote:

I'm all charged up about vinyl

Careful you don't charge the vinyl--it'll attract dust.

Of course! :-)

paul packer wrote:
On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 17:30:26 GMT, "
wrote:


That's pretty much been my point for some time. If you pay more for an amp,
CD player, or whatever, you don't get better sound, you get bragging rights.
Once you achieve flat response without any form of audible distortion or
noise, and the ability to drive difficult loads, you have a perfect piece of
equipment. Adding heavy faceplates or designer caps, and coils, doesn't
really get you better sound, but it might get you a longer product life.

So you're saying that an amp costing $5000 is not going to sound any
better than one costing $300 providing both measure well and drive
difficult loads? Have you tested this theory? Have you truly satisfied
yourself that nothing is to be gained by spending more? If not your
assertion means nothing.

I can predict the answer. It will say something about ABXing
"proving" his beliefs. Except, of course, that so far (mere 40 years
of ABX history) every published report, on everything in audio,
resulted in "It all sounds the same" outcome- as long as ABX was the
test protocol. ("Published" means at least accepted by a mag. if not by
a peer reviewed journal. Web free=for=all does not qualify)

Since they continue to promote it one must assume that indeed to
those true believers everything does sound the same.
Ludovic Mirabel

"George Middius" wrote in message
...


Mikey Bug-Eater eyes a snack. Oops, too slow. He stirs again. Will he make
the
grab this time?

Nothing wrong with spending whatever someone wants for their gear, but

Except when you know about it.

people should be aware of the fact that it doesn't get them better sound
as
the manufacturers and SP type reviewers would like us to believe.

Nobody wants you to believe anything. All they want is for you to buy
their
stuff.

Then why all the agitprop about better sound?


Apparently you believe nobody can enjoy their stereo unless they've been
brainwashed. Too bad your brain is too pickled to respond to ordinary
stimuli.

Wrong again, so far you're batting a thousand.

I think people should be informed, after that whatever decision they make is
on them.

The problem is that they are being told by reviewers that stuff sounds
different when it can't actually be demonstrated that is so. Worse, is they
are being told that snake oil devices can improve the sound. I just don't
believe reviewers should be involved in helping to commit fraud. They
should subject all tweaks to some kind of testing to see if does anything,
since any improvement would include a FR variation, or some other measurable
effect. That's part of the normal purview of hobby magazines, testing for
the advertised effects.

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...
The Chinese have too large a potential labor pool. This will keep labor
costs low for a much longer period of time than the American economy can
tolerate.

What do you mean tolerate? Like Australia, the USA has already given up on
most low skill manufacturing AFAIK. All the growth is in service industries.
Meanwhile we enjoy very low cost clothes, electronics etc.

MrT.

"paul packer" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 17:30:26 GMT, "
wrote:


That's pretty much been my point for some time. If you pay more for an
amp,
CD player, or whatever, you don't get better sound, you get bragging
rights.
Once you achieve flat response without any form of audible distortion or
noise, and the ability to drive difficult loads, you have a perfect piece
of
equipment. Adding heavy faceplates or designer caps, and coils, doesn't
really get you better sound, but it might get you a longer product life.

So you're saying that an amp costing $5000 is not going to sound any
better than one costing $300 providing both measure well and drive
difficult loads?

If they measure within .1 dB of each other, it's likely they will sound
idnetical.

Have you tested this theory? Have you truly satisfied
yourself that nothing is to be gained by spending more? If not your
assertion means nothing.

I have not but I have seen some of the research and that's the consensenus.
I'm satisfied that fropm my own experience, an audiophile approved power amp
like the Acoustat 120, doesn't sound audibly different than a Pioneer
reciever, or Scott integrated amp.

If 2 amps sound different there are reasons, clipping, inabilty to drive
difficult loads, or design problems. Sind it's so incredibly easy and
inexpensive to build an amp that has flat FR and inaudible distortion,
there's very little motivation to do otherwise.

wrote in message
oups.com...

paul packer wrote:
On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 17:30:26 GMT, "
wrote:


That's pretty much been my point for some time. If you pay more for an
amp,
CD player, or whatever, you don't get better sound, you get bragging
rights.
Once you achieve flat response without any form of audible distortion or
noise, and the ability to drive difficult loads, you have a perfect
piece of
equipment. Adding heavy faceplates or designer caps, and coils, doesn't
really get you better sound, but it might get you a longer product life.

So you're saying that an amp costing $5000 is not going to sound any
better than one costing $300 providing both measure well and drive
difficult loads? Have you tested this theory? Have you truly satisfied
yourself that nothing is to be gained by spending more? If not your
assertion means nothing.

I can predict the answer. It will say something about ABXing
"proving" his beliefs. Except, of course, that so far (mere 40 years
of ABX history) every published report, on everything in audio,
resulted in "It all sounds the same" outcome- as long as ABX was the
test protocol. ("Published" means at least accepted by a mag. if not by
a peer reviewed journal. Web free=for=all does not qualify)


Why do you contiue this lie, even after you posted the evidence that refutes
it?

Since they continue to promote it one must assume that indeed to
those true believers everything does sound the same.
Ludovic Mirabel

One must conclude that the truth bothers you so much that you are willing to
keep repeating the same lie over and over. Why is that?

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...


" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

" wrote in message
ink.net...

[snip]

ididots like Middius and you
are the people who understand that measurements have actual
meanbing
and
that when two devices meansure similarly enough, they sound the
same.

Mikey, if you ever find an "ididot" with "meanbing" and similar
"meansure",
let me know.

You realize, don't you, that your inferior mind is the cause of
these
mistakes?


I realize that my typing skills and my forgetting to use the spell
check
feature allow such mistakes to get through. I also realize that you
claim
to believe that makes me somehow your inferior. The problem of
course,
is
how little you seem to understand about your own failings and what a
putz
you appear to be when you dwell on my problems while turning a blind
eye
to so many more important problems.

Do continue though, it can only weaken your standing (assuming
that's
still possible) to constantly reveal how petty you are.


I more or less ignore your typos, I make a lot of them
myself. You are an idiot because everything you think is
filtered through several unworkable dogmas.

This is true. You work on the idiocy of the position; I'll work on the
idiocy of the idiot.

Why not gruuunnt work on urrrrghhh being less greeeeek of an idiot
gruuunt
yourself.

Do you understand the meaning and use of the question mark?

Yes?

"George Middius" wrote in message
...


Mikey casts a spell of Concentrated Irony.

I am completely un-dogmatic. I update my ideas and beliefs when there is
a
reason to do so.

bwahahahaha! LOL! ROTFL! etc.

For you, "update" apparently means "buy into whacko loony crackpot fringe
crapola". You do that with great frequency.

If irony killed.

"Alan Rutlidge" wrote in message
...
Yes, I'm sure they do. With a SS BTL bridged power amplifier, reading the
output might be problematical with a nice solid earth on one leg.

You have already heard of transformer coupling I assume, if you are using
bottles.

Jug elements - hmmmmm... nice constant resistance when they warm up?

Just like wire wound speakers.

Does it work just as effectively with toasters?

Quite possibly, but I've never tried.

Never really thought of them but
I assume you've tested them (jug elements that is) for suitability and
stability. Personally I find the average PC soundcard has a bit too much
residual background noise of meaningful noise measurements in high
performance gear, but once again these may only be the limitations of my
PC
and not necessarily yours.

Exactly!!

(I did say *decent* sound card. Try
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_u...e192-main.html for a
relatively inexpensive example)

MrT.

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

" wrote in message
nk.net...


Then you must be a real high end piece, Mikey, as you are a perfect
parrot
of Arny Krueger.

So, by your reckoning, it's bad to reapeat the truth? What diffference
does it make who said it, as long as it is the truth?


Was Arnie telling the truth when he accused Atkinson of emailing him
kiddie porn, or was Arnie telling the truth when he accused George Middius
of emailing him kiddie pron, or was Arnie telling the truth when he
accused
Dave Weil of emailing him kiddie porn, or Was Arnie telling the truth when
he accused Scot Wheeler of emailing him kiddie porn, or was Arnie telling
the
truth when he accused me of emailing him kiddie porn. Was Arnie telling
the truth that ANYBODY sent him kiddie porn. Didn't Arny later say that a
MSP
investigator told him it was not kiddie porn? Wouldn't it make
sense that one would not make such hideous accusations if
it weren't obvious that the porn in question was kiddie porn?
Wouldn't it be wonderful if there were absoultely no reason due to anything
that happened on RAO, could make Arny think someone would be despicable
enough to do such a thing?

The fact is that there are people like George, for whom such behavior seems
quite likely.

In article , "Doug Flynn" wrote:
and build your own high-end stuff. You can build amps for about 10% of the
cost of the crap you find in shops. Doug


If you (wanted to) build a gaincard/gainclone you will save more than 90%

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
u...

"Alan Rutlidge" wrote in message
...
Yes, I'm sure they do. With a SS BTL bridged power amplifier, reading
the
output might be problematical with a nice solid earth on one leg.

You have already heard of transformer coupling I assume, if you are using
bottles.

Actually if you read back a few lines I was actually referring to bridged
solid state (SS) amplifiers.
Obviously valve amps with transformer coupled outputs present no problem in
this case, nor would a normal single ended (non-bridged) output SS
amplifier.

How do you go about determining the maximum output at the onset of clipping
with a soundcard? Surely most soundcards alone would not be able to accepts
input voltages of more than a few volts without some form of attenuator at
the front end to prevent overloading? Would this not involve additional
components?

I notice that the Audiophile 192 soundcard you provided the link to (thanks)
does have a maximum input voltage limitation of 4 volts RMS, which across an
8 ohm load only amounts to 2 watts RMS - not a particularly powerful
amplifier. Whereas my AWA F242A N&D set will accept up to 30 volts RMS
without the need for external attenuators allowing amplifiers of just over
100 watts RMS (assuming an 8 ohm load) to be evaluated for power output,
distortion and noise performance. Still need a suitable dummy load though.


Jug elements - hmmmmm... nice constant resistance when they warm up?

Just like wire wound speakers.

I'm curious about this. Just based on reading a conventional kettle
element, the hot and cold resistances aren't the same. Typical readings are
58.2 ohms cold resistance; 24.2 ohms hot resistance (water boiled). Would
this temperature co-efficient characteristic not be similar in a jug element
and would it need to be immersed in water for cooling if measuring the
output an amplifier with several hundred watts output at or close to full
power?
As a matter of interest what is the typical resistance of a jug element?
Cold =,? hot = ?. Could be a lot cheaper alternative to a 300W wirewound
resistor mounted o a ruddy great heatsink.


Does it work just as effectively with toasters?

Quite possibly, but I've never tried.

Actually I thought Phil might be able answer that one. :P

Cheers,
Alan


Never really thought of them but
I assume you've tested them (jug elements that is) for suitability and
stability. Personally I find the average PC soundcard has a bit too much
residual background noise of meaningful noise measurements in high
performance gear, but once again these may only be the limitations of my
PC
and not necessarily yours.

Exactly!!

(I did say *decent* sound card. Try
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_u...e192-main.html for a
relatively inexpensive example)

MrT.

"S Roby" wrote in message
...
In article , "Doug
Flynn" wrote:
and build your own high-end stuff. You can build amps for about 10% of
the
cost of the crap you find in shops. Doug


If you (wanted to) build a gaincard/gainclone you will save more than 90%

"Save" is a misnomer though. Nobody in their right mind would buy a
Gaincard. Building a gainclone saves you little on buying a similar
commercial amp with the same IC amp stage.
At least they are easy to build though, and perform quite well with easy to
drive speakers.

MrT.

"Alan Rutlidge" wrote in message
...
Actually if you read back a few lines I was actually referring to bridged
solid state (SS) amplifiers.

Yes, sorry.

Obviously valve amps with transformer coupled outputs present no problem
in
this case, nor would a normal single ended (non-bridged) output SS
amplifier.

Nor would using a coupling transfromer to feed the souncard when measuring a
BTL SS amp.
A suitably high quality transformer does add to the cost though. However
many such amps are two single ended stages that are bridged and fed
anti-phase. One can then measure each single ended output individually
without a coupling transformer.

How do you go about determining the maximum output at the onset of
clipping
with a soundcard? Surely most soundcards alone would not be able to
accepts
input voltages of more than a few volts without some form of attenuator at
the front end to prevent overloading? Would this not involve additional
components?

Yes, a couple of cheap resistors.

I notice that the Audiophile 192 soundcard you provided the link to
(thanks)
does have a maximum input voltage limitation of 4 volts RMS, which across
an
8 ohm load only amounts to 2 watts RMS - not a particularly powerful
amplifier. Whereas my AWA F242A N&D set will accept up to 30 volts RMS
without the need for external attenuators allowing amplifiers of just over
100 watts RMS (assuming an 8 ohm load) to be evaluated for power output,
distortion and noise performance.

So what, an external attenuator is no big deal. It doesn't have to handle
full load power since the soundcard impedance is relatively high.
(BTW, if using a coupling transformer, it can also be chosen to provide a
suitable step down voltage.)

Still need a suitable dummy load though.

Only for full power measurements. Many usefull measurements can be made at
one watt with only a small 4 or 8 ohm load resistor, and no input
attenuation.

Jug elements - hmmmmm... nice constant resistance when they warm up?

Just like wire wound speakers.

I'm curious about this. Just based on reading a conventional kettle
element, the hot and cold resistances aren't the same. Typical readings
are
58.2 ohms cold resistance; 24.2 ohms hot resistance (water boiled).

Your jug has a negative temp coeff?

Would
this temperature co-efficient characteristic not be similar in a jug
element
and would it need to be immersed in water for cooling if measuring the
output an amplifier with several hundred watts output at or close to full
power?

They are usually pos temp coeff , but yes they need to be cooled or will
burn out rapidly.

As a matter of interest what is the typical resistance of a jug element?
Cold =,? hot = ?. Could be a lot cheaper alternative to a 300W wirewound
resistor mounted o a ruddy great heatsink.

Exactly, but the big WW resistor on a heatsink with fan, would probably be
better if you plan on doing this sort of thing regularly.
You need to parallel up a few turns and /or parallel up a few elements to
get the right resistance though. Alternatively wind your own.

MrT.

Robert Morein said to Mickey McMickey:

Do you understand the meaning and use of the question mark?

I guess you haven't seen his jammies.

" wrote in message
nk.net...

"George Middius" wrote in message
...


Mikey Bug-Eater eyes a snack. Oops, too slow. He stirs again. Will he
make the
grab this time?

Nothing wrong with spending whatever someone wants for their gear, but

Except when you know about it.

people should be aware of the fact that it doesn't get them better sound
as
the manufacturers and SP type reviewers would like us to believe.

Nobody wants you to believe anything. All they want is for you to buy
their
stuff.

Then why all the agitprop about better sound?


Apparently you believe nobody can enjoy their stereo unless they've been
brainwashed. Too bad your brain is too pickled to respond to ordinary
stimuli.

Wrong again, so far you're batting a thousand.

I think people should be informed, after that whatever decision they make
is on them.

The problem is that they are being told by reviewers that stuff sounds
different when it can't actually be demonstrated that is so. Worse, is
they are being told that snake oil devices can improve the sound. I just
don't believe reviewers should be involved in helping to commit fraud.
They should subject all tweaks to some kind of testing to see if does
anything, since any improvement would include a FR variation, or some
other measurable effect. That's part of the normal purview of hobby
magazines, testing for the advertised effects.


Any advertiser comments as to sound should be taken at face value. Like
adds for food or beer, (tastes best, less filling, etc.). Any fool
knows that. Well, evidently there is "at least" one fool named duh...Mikey
who doesn't.

" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

" wrote in message
nk.net...


Then you must be a real high end piece, Mikey, as you are a perfect
parrot
of Arny Krueger.

So, by your reckoning, it's bad to reapeat the truth? What diffference
does it make who said it, as long as it is the truth?


Was Arnie telling the truth when he accused Atkinson of emailing him
kiddie porn, or was Arnie telling the truth when he accused George
Middius
of emailing him kiddie pron, or was Arnie telling the truth when he
accused
Dave Weil of emailing him kiddie porn, or Was Arnie telling the truth
when
he accused Scot Wheeler of emailing him kiddie porn, or was Arnie telling
the
truth when he accused me of emailing him kiddie porn. Was Arnie telling
the truth that ANYBODY sent him kiddie porn. Didn't Arny later say that a
MSP
investigator told him it was not kiddie porn? Wouldn't it make
sense that one would not make such hideous accusations if
it weren't obvious that the porn in question was kiddie porn?
Wouldn't it be wonderful if there were absoultely no reason due to
anything that happened on RAO, could make Arny think someone would be
despicable enough to do such a thing?

The fact is that there are people like George, for whom such behavior
seems quite likely.


So, you are excusing Arny for making groundless
accusations about sending kiddie porn just because he 'thinks' someone
'might' do it.

"George M. Middius" cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net wrote
in message ...


Robert Morein said to Mickey McMickey:

Do you understand the meaning and use of the question mark?

I guess you haven't seen his jammies.


Is it true that duh...Mikey is Matthew Lesko's
stand in?

Where's Forrest Gump when we need him? ;-)

Nobody wants you to believe anything. All they want is for you to buy
their stuff.

Then why all the agitprop about better sound?

Who taught you that word, Mickey? Robert has been trying to school you in
avoiding these explosions of language abuse.

In your persistent delusional state, you believe that marketing is theology. In
reality, it's entirely mundane. Grow up.


Apparently you believe nobody can enjoy their stereo unless they've been
brainwashed. Too bad your brain is too pickled to respond to ordinary
stimuli.

Wrong again, so far you're batting a thousand.

No, I'm quite right. Your patent inability to distinguish marketing from
proselytizing proves my point.

I think people should be informed, after that whatever decision they make is
on them.

If they want to be informed, that's their choice. It's not up to marketers to
inform buyers. Their role is to inflame buyers' interest in their products.

The problem is that they are being told by reviewers that stuff sounds
different when it can't actually be demonstrated that is so.

You're just plain dumb. No two ways about that.



..
..
..
..
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Clyde Slick said to duh-Mikey:

The fact is that there are people like George, for whom such behavior
seems quite likely.

Now Mickey, just because I humiliate you several times a week doesn't mean I
have a ready stock of filthy porn. It wasn't me who gave you swirlies in junior
high, it wasn't me who gave you wedgies in gym class, and it wasn't me who
ratted you out for sniffing propellant in the boys' room.

So, you are excusing Arny for making groundless
accusations about sending kiddie porn just because he 'thinks' someone
'might' do it.

As we sit here making fun of the Bug Eater, Mickey is preparing for Saint
Arnii's canonization. His assignment is very important -- he has to expunge all
of Arnii's arrest records, reverse all the restraining orders, and get 3
different doctors to declare Arnii fully sane.

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
u...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...
The Chinese have too large a potential labor pool. This will keep labor
costs low for a much longer period of time than the American economy can
tolerate.

What do you mean tolerate? Like Australia, the USA has already given up on
most low skill manufacturing AFAIK. All the growth is in service
industries.
Meanwhile we enjoy very low cost clothes, electronics etc.

MrT.

We have a huge balance of payments deficit. Eventually, American currency
will fall. Henry Kaufman, a well known authority on interest rates, has
written an essay on why American currency valuation remains high. The one
precarious reason is that the dollar remains the dominant reserve currency.
Eventually, it will be replaced by other currencies. Then, inflow of money
into American economic interests will reverse.

Over the long term, floating currencies seek values that are stable.
Stability is possible only if the amount of the currency in circulation is
stable, or increases at a sufficiently slow rate as to represent an
acceptable rate of inflation. The current model of the American economy,
which is very weak in the value of manufactured exports, does not allow
this.

The fallacy of the "service economy" is the assumption that it represents
something indispensable to the global economy. All spheres of an economy are
subject to international competitive pressures. Domestic employment in high
tech sectors of the service economy is already eroding to India. This is not
going to stop.

The weakness of our ability to support the value of the dollar is masked by
two things: the status of the dollar as the primary reserve currency, and
the willingness of the Asian rim to fuel their own prosperity with
manufactured exports that buy them dollars. By 2020, however, China's
domestic bank deposits will exceed ours. At that point, fifteen years from
now, the shadow of the eclipse will begin to cover America. The realization
that China has acceeded to global economic dominance will cause the
attraction of the dollar as a reserve currency to rapidly fade. But there
will be a huge dollar denominated debt that must be repaid. The traditional
manner to deal with such debt is to repay it in cheaper money. Cheaper money
is achieved by massive inflation.

Sadly, our politicians are willing to mortage our future in return for the
privilege of driving fancy, gas guzzling SUVs. There is also the further
issue, more difficult to deal with, of job export. Within a few years, the
numbers of the dispossessed may grow to a significant political movement.

Robert Morein wrote:
"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
u...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...
The Chinese have too large a potential labor pool. This will keep labor
costs low for a much longer period of time than the American economy can
tolerate.

What do you mean tolerate? Like Australia, the USA has already given up on
most low skill manufacturing AFAIK. All the growth is in service
industries.
Meanwhile we enjoy very low cost clothes, electronics etc.

MrT.

We have a huge balance of payments deficit. Eventually, American currency
will fall. Henry Kaufman, a well known authority on interest rates, has
written an essay on why American currency valuation remains high. The one
precarious reason is that the dollar remains the dominant reserve currency.
Eventually, it will be replaced by other currencies. Then, inflow of money
into American economic interests will reverse.

Over the long term, floating currencies seek values that are stable.
Stability is possible only if the amount of the currency in circulation is
stable, or increases at a sufficiently slow rate as to represent an
acceptable rate of inflation. The current model of the American economy,
which is very weak in the value of manufactured exports, does not allow
this.

The fallacy of the "service economy" is the assumption that it represents
something indispensable to the global economy. All spheres of an economy are
subject to international competitive pressures. Domestic employment in high
tech sectors of the service economy is already eroding to India. This is not
going to stop.

The weakness of our ability to support the value of the dollar is masked by
two things: the status of the dollar as the primary reserve currency, and
the willingness of the Asian rim to fuel their own prosperity with
manufactured exports that buy them dollars. By 2020, however, China's
domestic bank deposits will exceed ours. At that point, fifteen years from
now, the shadow of the eclipse will begin to cover America. The realization
that China has acceeded to global economic dominance will cause the
attraction of the dollar as a reserve currency to rapidly fade. But there
will be a huge dollar denominated debt that must be repaid. The traditional
manner to deal with such debt is to repay it in cheaper money. Cheaper money
is achieved by massive inflation.

Sadly, our politicians are willing to mortage our future in return for the
privilege of driving fancy, gas guzzling SUVs. There is also the further
issue, more difficult to deal with, of job export. Within a few years, the
numbers of the dispossessed may grow to a significant political movement.

Mr M. I pressume you are an American, If so congratulations in being
one of the very few I've encountered willing to be honest when
discussing the US economy. Thank You.