No one ever said High End audio was rational. It's obsessive
compulsive behavior! It's a relatively harmless outlet for OCD, as
opposed to some others. Mid-fi is more rational which is why it sells
more- a reasonable approximation at a reasonable price. You buy it,
hook it up, it sounds okay. Not super great, okay. The same with a
hobbyist owning Snap-On wrenches, or HP/Agilent or Tek test equipment,
or a Hasselblad camera...no, you don't need it. That's the point.

About any old speakers hooked to about any old amplifier in about any
room will sound about okay, to the average person on the street. If
you have a little money and tme and want the sound to be more
realistic, more, well, more...and you like well made things for their
own sake...high end audio might be a good hobby. Maybe you have money
and no time, just call the high end saloon on lunch break-even dope
defense lawyers and brain surgeons have to eat-and have them deliver
what they think is best. Have some time and curiosity and energy and
not so much cash? Building your own speakers and amps has to beat
watching stupid TV shows. Nothing in the world like flipping the
switch and watching filaments light up...even in 2005.

wrote:

No one ever said High End audio was rational.

But it could be. There is no reason why somebody could not
intelligently shop around for REALLY good speakers, REALLY
good surround processors, and REALLY good ancillary gear,
and then install it in a REALLY good, dedicated room,
possibly built from scratch. (Yep, that is me.) That would
be true high end, and not the baloney behavior we see in
most situations.

It's obsessive
compulsive behavior!

Only with certain individuals. There are those who follow
the guidelines noted above and get GENUINE high-end
performance and not fantasies. Fantasies are not high end.

It's a relatively harmless outlet for OCD, as
opposed to some others.

Yes, it probably is harmless. However, it does result in
certain individuals making suckers out of others. While the
people who sell gimmick products are not exactly dragging
down our culture, they can, and do, sometimes do damage to
individuals who purchase overpriced gear. Also, there is
something about dumbing down any hobby that I find
offensive.

Mid-fi is more rational which is why it sells
more- a reasonable approximation at a reasonable price. You buy it,
hook it up, it sounds okay. Not super great, okay.

Agreed.

The same with a
hobbyist owning Snap-On wrenches, or HP/Agilent or Tek test equipment,
or a Hasselblad camera...no, you don't need it. That's the point.

What point? Again, a REAL high-end enthusiast (be audio,
tools, or cameras the point of interest) will work to get
stuff that does all that is required to satisfy certain
requirements. Yes, if he is loaded with money he can get
overkill items (I have done that myself in audio, tools, and
photography in some, but certainly not all, cases), but that
does not mean that he will get a performance edge that
matters in terms of reality.

Also, most of the guys who get upscale tools or upscale
camera gear (I once did weddings, portraits, and landscape
photography for money, myself) do not spend big bucks on
items that do nothing. This is not the case with audio
freaks, who will spend big bucks on power conditioners,
super wire, vibration control devices, and other goofy
gimmicks.

As an obsessive hobby, audio sits an irrational peg above
photography or woodworking or metalworking enterprises.

About any old speakers hooked to about any old amplifier in about any
room will sound about okay, to the average person on the street.

Ironically, a high-end package may actually sound worse. Not
always, but sometimes. Much high-end gear is overpriced and
overkill junk. (Read: SET amps, for instance.) Is someone
who purchases stuff like that in total ignorance and then
become pleased with results that are substandard in the
extreme a REAL high-end enthusiast? I think not. I think
they are a bit addled, and as you noted obsessive, but I do
not think that they are genuine high-end audio enthusiasts.
High-end audio enthusiasts, the real ones and not the fakes
that hang out here, know what they are doing.

If
you have a little money and tme and want the sound to be more
realistic, more, well, more...and you like well made things for their
own sake...high end audio might be a good hobby. Maybe you have money
and no time, just call the high end saloon on lunch break-even dope
defense lawyers and brain surgeons have to eat-and have them deliver
what they think is best. Have some time and curiosity and energy and
not so much cash? Building your own speakers and amps has to beat
watching stupid TV shows. Nothing in the world like flipping the
switch and watching filaments light up...even in 2005.

Not for me.

Howard Ferstler

wrote in message
oups.com

No one ever said High End audio was rational. It's obsessive
compulsive behavior!

Thanks Cal for admitting that in your view, high end audio and its
advocates, as well as the magazines devoted to it are nuts.


It's a relatively harmless outlet for OCD, as opposed to some others.

Yeah, when Marc Phillips stalked my house and was hanging out around town,
looking for me with a rifle - that was relatively harmless. When Scott
Wheeler sued me in California Superior Court, that was relatively harmless,
too. And, when Marc reported me to my local police as a pedophile and Tom
Yutz recommended that others do the same, that was just harmless fun.

Well, you're right Cal, both Scott Wheeler and Marc Philips turned out to be
total and complete putz's, and it all came to nothing. yes, they're
represenative fo the relatively harmless nature of HighEnd Audio.

Mid-fi is more rational which is why it sells
more- a reasonable approximation at a reasonable price. You buy it,
hook it up, it sounds okay. Not super great, okay.

In many cases nobody, not even the review staff of Sterephile it seems, can
hear the difference. So what about that, Cal?

The same with a hobbyist owning Snap-On wrenches,

Huh? Can't a person do useful work with Snap-On wrenches?

or HP/Agilent or Tek test equipment,

I resemble that - and it get some useful work with it, as well.

or a Hasselblad camera...no, you don't need it. That's the point.

Tell the astranauts - they didn't need that Hasselblad at all.

About any old speakers hooked to about any old amplifier in about
any room will sound about okay, to the average person on the street.

Really?

If you have a little money and tme and want the sound to be more
realistic, more, well, more...and you like well made things for their
own sake...high end audio might be a good hobby.

Maybe. Sometimes you get what you pay for. Sometimes you don't. With an iffy
situation like this, why rely on a magazine that is basically a joke book?

Maybe you have money
and no time, just call the high end saloon on lunch break-even dope
defense lawyers and brain surgeons have to eat-and have them deliver
what they think is best.

Good advice for people with more money than sense. I'd guess this would be
part of the natural high end ragazine marketplace as well.

Have some time and curiosity and energy and
not so much cash? Building your own speakers and amps has to beat
watching stupid TV shows.

Other than building subwoofers, this is probably as bad advice as any.

Nothing in the world like flipping the
switch and watching filaments light up...even in 2005.

Now Cal's advice is as big of a joke as those high end ragazines and web
site.

Arny Krueger wrote:

wrote in message
oups.com

It's a relatively harmless outlet for OCD, as opposed to some others.

Yeah, when Marc Phillips stalked my house and was hanging out around town,
looking for me with a rifle - that was relatively harmless.

Man, these guys are loony.

When Scott
Wheeler sued me in California Superior Court, that was relatively harmless,
too.

Yep, loony.

And, when Marc reported me to my local police as a pedophile and Tom
Yutz recommended that others do the same, that was just harmless fun.

Loony, for sure.

Well, you're right Cal, both Scott Wheeler and Marc Philips turned out to be
total and complete putz's, and it all came to nothing.

Spineless loonies? My God, how far the noble have fallen!

yes, they're
represenative fo the relatively harmless nature of HighEnd Audio.

That the hobby attracts such people is one reason I am for
"cleaning house." It motivates me.

Well, the money I am paid motivates, too.

Howard Ferstler

On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 19:04:23 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

Yeah, when Marc Phillips stalked my house

Yeah, sort of like when *you* stalked my house in cyberspace.

dave weil a écrit :
On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 19:04:23 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:


Yeah, when Marc Phillips stalked my house


Yeah, sort of like when *you* stalked my house in cyberspace.

Quick definitions (stalk)
# verb: follow stealthily or recur constantly and
spontaneously to (Example: "Her ex-boyfriend stalked her")

If I understand correctly "to stalk" implies an unilateral
need, right ?
So it's not false to say that you are stalking Arnold
Krueger for months now. At least since he doesn't answer
anymore to your solicitude. ;-)

In contrary it is false to say that I am stalking you since
you always answer to my post and that (rarely but) sometime
you take the initiative of the exchange.

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 10:39:44 +0100, Lionel
wrote:

dave weil a écrit :
On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 19:04:23 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:


Yeah, when Marc Phillips stalked my house


Yeah, sort of like when *you* stalked my house in cyberspace.

Quick definitions (stalk)
# verb: follow stealthily or recur constantly and
spontaneously to (Example: "Her ex-boyfriend stalked her")

If I understand correctly "to stalk" implies an unilateral
need, right ?
So it's not false to say that you are stalking Arnold
Krueger for months now. At least since he doesn't answer
anymore to your solicitude. ;-)

You don't know what you're talking about. Having conversations on a
USENET group is different than trying to delve into peoples' personal
information and view their homes. He did the same thing that Marc did,
only through cyberspace.

In contrary it is false to say that I am stalking you since
you always answer to my post and that (rarely but) sometime
you take the initiative of the exchange.

If this is the case, then Marc wasn't "stalking" Mr. Krueger either,
since he trolls Mr. Phillips all the time, right?

Frankly, being a stooge for Arnold Krueger is perfect for a "sewer
inspector". It's not the path that *I* would take in life, but there
ya go.

dave weil a écrit :

Frankly, being a stooge for Arnold Krueger is perfect for a "sewer
inspector". It's not the path that *I* would take in life, but there
ya go.

Dave since months you are desperatly trying to get attention
from Arnold Krueger... Your daily insistence is really
ridiculous and pitiful. It's not the path that *I* would
take in life, but here ya go.

Clean your nose Dave you're full of snot. ;-)

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 17:53:30 +0100, Lionel
wrote:

dave weil a écrit :

Frankly, being a stooge for Arnold Krueger is perfect for a "sewer
inspector". It's not the path that *I* would take in life, but there
ya go.

Dave since months you are desperatly trying to get attention
from Arnold Krueger... Your daily insistence is really
ridiculous and pitiful. It's not the path that *I* would
take in life, but here ya go.

You're just wrong. If anything, I've interacted LESS with Arnold in
the past year. That doesn'tmean that I won't take him to task from
time to time. Actually, I kind of like the fact that he seems too
afraid to answer me directly, but uses you to be able to respond to
some of my points.

Actually, you HAVE taken that daily insistence path in your life. You
really should look in the mirror.

Clean your nose Dave you're full of snot. ;-)

Actually, I'm over the flu, thank you very much.

"Lionel" wrote in message

dave weil a écrit :
On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 19:04:23 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:


Yeah, when Marc Phillips stalked my house

Yeah, sort of like when *you* stalked my house in cyberspace.

Quick definitions (stalk)
# verb: follow stealthily or recur constantly and
spontaneously to (Example: "Her ex-boyfriend stalked her")

If I understand correctly "to stalk" implies an unilateral
need, right ?

So it's not false to say that you are stalking Arnold
Krueger for months now. At least since he doesn't answer
anymore to your solicitude. ;-)

Agreed. Weil is a whiner and a very needy person. He seems to expect people
to believe that the fact that he stalks me on Usenet almost daily means
nothing. He wants people to believe that the fact that I once saw a picture
of the roof of his house is some kind of a major problem. It turns out that
Weil lives in a fairly gritty part of town.

I think its funnier than heck that Marc Phillips went out of his way to
drive by my house. Teenage boys do stuff like that for girls that they have
crushes on.

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 10:17:07 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Lionel" wrote in message

dave weil a écrit :
On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 19:04:23 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:


Yeah, when Marc Phillips stalked my house

Yeah, sort of like when *you* stalked my house in cyberspace.

Quick definitions (stalk)
# verb: follow stealthily or recur constantly and
spontaneously to (Example: "Her ex-boyfriend stalked her")

If I understand correctly "to stalk" implies an unilateral
need, right ?

So it's not false to say that you are stalking Arnold
Krueger for months now. At least since he doesn't answer
anymore to your solicitude. ;-)

Agreed. Weil is a whiner and a very needy person. He seems to expect people
to believe that the fact that he stalks me on Usenet almost daily means
nothing. He wants people to believe that the fact that I once saw a picture
of the roof of his house is some kind of a major problem. It turns out that
Weil lives in a fairly gritty part of town.

I guess that this is one of of his "non-answers". How does it feel to
be a conduit Lionel? I guess it's not all that different from being a
sewerpipe.

BTW, Arnold once claimed to have seen a picture of my house, not just
an aerial shot of my neighborhood. Notice how he's changed his tuned
and pretty much lied by omission.

And yes, I live in a fairly gritty part of town. I happen to like the
urban life. I've never cared for suburbia. I've always gravitated
toward older homes and a more lively street life.

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 09:57:26 -0600, dave weil
wrote:

BTW, Arnold once claimed to have seen a picture of my house, not just
an aerial shot of my neighborhood. Notice how he's changed his tuned
and pretty much lied by omission.

Or "changed his _tune_ " even.

dave weil a écrit :

BTW, Arnold once claimed to have seen a picture of my house, not just
an aerial shot of my neighborhood. Notice how he's changed his tuned
and pretty much lied by omission.

"At least" he hasn't kept preciously a recording of your
voice during year.
Arnold seems to be less fetichist than you are Dave... :-D

And yes, I live in a fairly gritty part of town. I happen to like the
urban life. I've never cared for suburbia. I've always gravitated
toward older homes and a more lively street life.

I agree on this one. IMHO suburbia are boring an monotomn...
I prefer the country sides.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Lionel" wrote in message

dave weil a écrit :
On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 19:04:23 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:


Yeah, when Marc Phillips stalked my house

Yeah, sort of like when *you* stalked my house in cyberspace.

Quick definitions (stalk)
# verb: follow stealthily or recur constantly and
spontaneously to (Example: "Her ex-boyfriend stalked her")

If I understand correctly "to stalk" implies an unilateral
need, right ?

So it's not false to say that you are stalking Arnold
Krueger for months now. At least since he doesn't answer
anymore to your solicitude. ;-)

Agreed. Weil is a whiner and a very needy person. He seems to expect
people
to believe that the fact that he stalks me on Usenet almost daily means
nothing. He wants people to believe that the fact that I once saw a
picture
of the roof of his house is some kind of a major problem. It turns out
that
Weil lives in a fairly gritty part of town.

I think its funnier than heck that Marc Phillips went out of his way to
drive by my house. Teenage boys do stuff like that for girls that they
have
crushes on.


"At least" he didn't roll your dead bushes with toilet paper.



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