Len Moskowitz wrote:
Steve Scott wrote:

BTW, any recommendations of reasonably-priced miniature omnis --
Countryman, Shure, Audix, whatever ???

DPA 4060 & 4061. That's what we use in our High End Binaural mic set
(after matching them). Better sounding IMO than anything else that's
out there.

I will second this, but I will say that the Countryman is not half bad
and that Beyer also makes some good lav mikes for the application.

[Disclaimer: We are DPA dealers.]

I'm not, and I don't even own any post-B&K models.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey wrote:
I'm not, and I don't even own any post-B&K models.
--scott

I've read several references suggesting that the DPA mics are not as
good (or are at least different) than the B & K mics they replaced. Is
this your opinion? If so, what do you hear as the differences?

Thanks

Haolemon wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:
I'm not, and I don't even own any post-B&K models.

I've read several references suggesting that the DPA mics are not as
good (or are at least different) than the B & K mics they replaced. Is
this your opinion? If so, what do you hear as the differences?

I have no real idea, because, as I said, I don't own any of the newer ones.
I do know that DPA still makes the old B&K models, but they also make a
bunch of cheaper mikes as well (which aren't as good, but are still good for
the price). I don't know if those older models are still made as well as
they were before the corporate change.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Haolemon wrote:

I've read several references suggesting that the DPA mics are not as
good (or are at least different) than the B & K mics they replaced. Is
this your opinion? If so, what do you hear as the differences?

The owners of DPA are former Bruel & Kjaer employees. One of them (Ole)
was involved with the technical development the B&K pro audio mics.

We have a very old B&K 4003 here that we use interchangeably with two
other 4003s, one a less-old B&K and the other a new DPA. They were
selected to match each other well; they sound identical.

Over the years, we've been able to use pretty much the whole range of
DPA microphones. Their fine quality hasn't changed one iota since the
Bruel & Kjaer days, and the newer DPA products uphold that tradition.

[Disclaimer: Core Sound is a DPA dealer.]



--
Len Moskowitz PDAudio, Binaural Mics, Cables, DPA, M-Audio
Core Sound http://www.stealthmicrophones.com
Teaneck, New Jersey USA http://www.core-sound.com
Tel: 201-801-0812, FAX: 201-801-0912

Scott Dorsey wrote:
Len Moskowitz wrote:
DPA 4060 & 4061. That's what we use in our High End Binaural mic set
(after matching them). Better sounding IMO than anything else that's
out there.

I will second this, but I will say that the Countryman is not half bad
and that Beyer also makes some good lav mikes for the application.

Other than noise floor, how would you characterise the (sonic)
difference between the 406x and the full sized DPA's (4003/4006)?

The difference in price is substantial and not everything is very
quiet... So would a pair of 406x be a usable alternative for much of
what a pair of 4006 would do or not?

Lars


--
lars farm // http://www.farm.se
lars is also a mail-account on the server farm.se

Lars Farm wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Len Moskowitz wrote:
DPA 4060 & 4061. That's what we use in our High End Binaural mic set
(after matching them). Better sounding IMO than anything else that's
out there.

I will second this, but I will say that the Countryman is not half bad
and that Beyer also makes some good lav mikes for the application.

Other than noise floor, how would you characterise the (sonic)
difference between the 406x and the full sized DPA's (4003/4006)?

I have used only the high voltage DPAs, not the cheaper low voltage
models. The minis sound much grainier on the top end although the off-axis
response on the omnis is quite similar.

The difference in price is substantial and not everything is very
quiet... So would a pair of 406x be a usable alternative for much of
what a pair of 4006 would do or not?

Yes, it would be an okay lower end alternative. But if you are looking for
a general purpose cardioid in that price range, I would sooner point you at
the Josephson Series Five. But, there's no omni capsule available. I'd
also look at the A-T 4049/4053. None of these are small enough to use as
lav mikes.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Thanks for the omni recommendations, others welcome. I guess
"reasonably priced" is a pretty open description g How about maybe
$200 each?

Scott, I've owned a pair of AT4051a for quite a while, bought on your
referral among others. I've been very pleased with them, smooove and
musical. And that's why I'm asking about omni mics -- I've been trying
to decide if I should buy the 4049 caps ($200 or so each), or just look
at a different mic altogether for the omni.

Any experience with the 4049 vs comparable omnidirectional mics? I
don't absolutely have to have lavaliere-size, but I do appreciate the
small mics for placement near acoustic guitar, and as I mentioned maybe
even attached to the body. The ATs wouldn't allow that, obviously.
Steve

i have pairs of both DPA 4006s and the little 4061s, and they are
vastly different in tonal response. the pattern is amazingly omni on
the 4061, but it defintely exhibits a noticeable high0end lift - this
is great for acoustic guitar, and some other applications, but it ain't
so good for live ensemble work or for acoustic instruments that contain
significant high freq's like strings, woodwinds, etc. the larger 4006s
display a nicely "flat" freq response curve, and are useable on
literally anything, IME. for a less expensive, generally flat response
omni, i cannot recommend the AT4049 or its cardioid version the AT4051,
as they are both rather bright to me (i do own a pair of hte 4051s that
i use on some warmer sources). instead, check out the AKG c480/ck62
and its cardioid version the ck61 - wonderful mics that can be had for
a song and a dance compared to the DPA prices. i use the c480/ck61 on
all types of things, and have found it nearly interchangeable with my
DPA 4011s.

wrote:
AT4049 or its cardioid version the AT4051,
as they are both rather bright to me

Interesting, I don't think of the 4051 as bright at all... but I
usually run them through A Designs or Focusrite preamps at low
impedance. Thanks for the tips on the DPA differences and AKG.

I've never used DPA, we used to use quite a few B&K measurement mics at
my "real" engineering lab, have switched to PCB. But many of these
roll off pretty quick anywhere from 2-10 kHz, not always very usable on
musical instruments.

Steve

hi steve - after using neumann km184s for a long time before buying the
AT4051s, i didnt think ofhte 4051s as bright either, especially in
comparison to the little neumanns. but after using schoeps cmc64s, akg
c480/ck61s, and DPA 4011s, it became much more clear how much even the
ATs emphasize the upper mids (you can of course see this by looking at
the response curves for those mics). now, i am completely hooked on
"flat" mics (though dorsey will probably tell you that nothing is flat,
and even within the general category of flat mics, there can be quite a
bit of tonal variation, such as the senn mkh40s vs the DPA or schoeps,
all of which sound quite different). i am in agreement with the
schoeps philosophy that mics should be as neutral and invisible as
possible, and thus useable on any type of source. after using such
nice mics for a few years, i have sold all my neumanns, rode tube mics,
royer ribbons, etc etc, - every mic that i had originally selected for
its specific "color" for specific applications.

Steve Scott wrote:

I've never used DPA, we used to use quite a few B&K measurement mics at
my "real" engineering lab, have switched to PCB. But many of these
roll off pretty quick anywhere from 2-10 kHz, not always very usable on
musical instruments.

The freefield omni capsules for the B&K lab mikes are lots of fun for
recording. If you have any of the old 1" ones kicking around, let me know.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

i have pairs of both DPA 4006s and the little 4061s, and they are
vastly different in tonal response. the pattern is amazingly omni on
the 4061, but it defintely exhibits a noticeable high0end lift - this
is great for acoustic guitar, and some other applications, but it ain't
so good for live ensemble work or for acoustic instruments that contain
significant high freq's like strings, woodwinds, etc. the larger 4006s
display a nicely "flat" freq response curve, and are useable on
literally anything, IME. for a less expensive, generally flat response
omni, i cannot recommend the AT4049 or its cardioid version the AT4051,
as they are both rather bright to me (i do own a pair of hte 4051s that
i use on some warmer sources). instead, check out the AKG c480/ck62
and its cardioid version the ck61 - wonderful mics that can be had for
a song and a dance compared to the DPA prices. i use the c480/ck61 on
all types of things, and have found it nearly interchangeable with my
DPA 4011s.

Steve Scott wrote:
Thanks for the omni recommendations, others welcome. I guess
"reasonably priced" is a pretty open description g How about maybe
$200 each?

Scott, I've owned a pair of AT4051a for quite a while, bought on your
referral among others. I've been very pleased with them, smooove and
musical. And that's why I'm asking about omni mics -- I've been trying
to decide if I should buy the 4049 caps ($200 or so each), or just look
at a different mic altogether for the omni.

I'd say that the 4049 capsules are probably as good as anything else you
will find in that range.

Any experience with the 4049 vs comparable omnidirectional mics? I
don't absolutely have to have lavaliere-size, but I do appreciate the
small mics for placement near acoustic guitar, and as I mentioned maybe
even attached to the body. The ATs wouldn't allow that, obviously.
Steve

Omnis are easy to build, which means that even cheap omni electrets are
pretty decent. It's a lot easier to build an omni with flat response and
even off-axis response than it is to build a cardioid. One of the first
things you'll notice going to even a cheap omni is the low end difference.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."