We had this kurzweil k2500xs and sold it in going over to the software
sampler. And we took the kurzweil pianos for granted. So is there is
piano sample I can load into an emagic exs24 that will come close to
those supple kurzweil modules? Even the kurzweil's standard piano
program was practically real. Which kurzweil do I have to buy to just
get those piano sounds...or, perhaps, which piano sample is the one to
use for pop/rock? I have this "ProSamples Vol 18 Steinway Grand
Piano" that I got for $50. It is nearly unusable for me. Has anyone
reading heard the PMI Yamaha C7 samples?

On 24 Jun 2004 00:20:45 -0700, Andrew wrote:
We had this kurzweil k2500xs and sold it in going over to the software
sampler. And we took the kurzweil pianos for granted. So is there is
piano sample I can load into an emagic exs24 that will come close to
those supple kurzweil modules? Even the kurzweil's standard piano
program was practically real. Which kurzweil do I have to buy to just
get those piano sounds...or, perhaps, which piano sample is the one to
use for pop/rock? I have this "ProSamples Vol 18 Steinway Grand
Piano" that I got for $50. It is nearly unusable for me. Has anyone
reading heard the PMI Yamaha C7 samples?

I remember the original Kurzweil. First playing "DAMN, that's nice . .
" after about a minute, I realized there was no real "expression" just
velocity sensitive volume control.

Their more recent boxes were MUCH better, using different ways in
interpoliting or resynthesizing different sample types better to capture
the feel of the real thing.

Here's the problem with a synthesized piano: We Piano Guys know what
one sounds and feels like.

Digital piano makers devote all the memory on their machines to doing
One Thing rather well. You certainly CAN reproduce that on a sampler,
but if your time is worth anything you might wanna just buy another
Kurzweil or whatever.

Sampler legend:

Famous Producer sitting in a studio. He's playing a single Phil Collins
drum sample over and over on (legend was an Emu Emulator).

Producer: "Isn't this cool? I've got Phil Collins snare sound."

Wag: "Sounds like some guy with no rhythm doing a sound check."

On 24 Jun 2004 00:20:45 -0700, Andrew wrote:
We had this kurzweil k2500xs and sold it in going over to the software
sampler. And we took the kurzweil pianos for granted. So is there is
piano sample I can load into an emagic exs24 that will come close to
those supple kurzweil modules? Even the kurzweil's standard piano
program was practically real. Which kurzweil do I have to buy to just
get those piano sounds...or, perhaps, which piano sample is the one to
use for pop/rock? I have this "ProSamples Vol 18 Steinway Grand
Piano" that I got for $50. It is nearly unusable for me. Has anyone
reading heard the PMI Yamaha C7 samples?

I remember the original Kurzweil. First playing "DAMN, that's nice . .
" after about a minute, I realized there was no real "expression" just
velocity sensitive volume control.

Their more recent boxes were MUCH better, using different ways in
interpoliting or resynthesizing different sample types better to capture
the feel of the real thing.

Here's the problem with a synthesized piano: We Piano Guys know what
one sounds and feels like.

Digital piano makers devote all the memory on their machines to doing
One Thing rather well. You certainly CAN reproduce that on a sampler,
but if your time is worth anything you might wanna just buy another
Kurzweil or whatever.

Sampler legend:

Famous Producer sitting in a studio. He's playing a single Phil Collins
drum sample over and over on (legend was an Emu Emulator).

Producer: "Isn't this cool? I've got Phil Collins snare sound."

Wag: "Sounds like some guy with no rhythm doing a sound check."

Interesting that you should ask, since I saw a Kurzweil SP88X (factory
refurbed) in a catalog last night for a whooping $739. I don't really want
another keyboard, but I have been getting requests to play out and my
current Kurzweil was meant to stay in the studio. It has the same piano
sample set as my studio piano, so for the bucks it looks pretty darned
reasonable. I'll have to look up which catalog it was later, though.

However, I've not tried any VSTi samplers, so I'm not sure by your statement
"Which kurzweil do I have to buy to just
get those piano sounds..."
whether you mean going BACK to a piece of equipment, or just finding the
sounds on some collection.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"Andrew" wrote in message
m...
We had this kurzweil k2500xs and sold it in going over to the software
sampler. And we took the kurzweil pianos for granted. So is there is
piano sample I can load into an emagic exs24 that will come close to
those supple kurzweil modules? Even the kurzweil's standard piano
program was practically real. Which kurzweil do I have to buy to just
get those piano sounds...or, perhaps, which piano sample is the one to
use for pop/rock? I have this "ProSamples Vol 18 Steinway Grand
Piano" that I got for $50. It is nearly unusable for me. Has anyone
reading heard the PMI Yamaha C7 samples?

Interesting that you should ask, since I saw a Kurzweil SP88X (factory
refurbed) in a catalog last night for a whooping $739. I don't really want
another keyboard, but I have been getting requests to play out and my
current Kurzweil was meant to stay in the studio. It has the same piano
sample set as my studio piano, so for the bucks it looks pretty darned
reasonable. I'll have to look up which catalog it was later, though.

However, I've not tried any VSTi samplers, so I'm not sure by your statement
"Which kurzweil do I have to buy to just
get those piano sounds..."
whether you mean going BACK to a piece of equipment, or just finding the
sounds on some collection.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"Andrew" wrote in message
m...
We had this kurzweil k2500xs and sold it in going over to the software
sampler. And we took the kurzweil pianos for granted. So is there is
piano sample I can load into an emagic exs24 that will come close to
those supple kurzweil modules? Even the kurzweil's standard piano
program was practically real. Which kurzweil do I have to buy to just
get those piano sounds...or, perhaps, which piano sample is the one to
use for pop/rock? I have this "ProSamples Vol 18 Steinway Grand
Piano" that I got for $50. It is nearly unusable for me. Has anyone
reading heard the PMI Yamaha C7 samples?

"Andrew" wrote in message
m...
We had this kurzweil k2500xs and sold it in going over to the software
sampler. And we took the kurzweil pianos for granted. So is there is
piano sample I can load into an emagic exs24 that will come close to
those supple kurzweil modules? Even the kurzweil's standard piano
program was practically real. Which kurzweil do I have to buy to just
get those piano sounds...or, perhaps, which piano sample is the one to
use for pop/rock? I have this "ProSamples Vol 18 Steinway Grand
Piano" that I got for $50. It is nearly unusable for me. Has anyone
reading heard the PMI Yamaha C7 samples?

Try Steinberg "The Grand", if that isn't real enough for you, get a real
piano.

"Andrew" wrote in message
m...
We had this kurzweil k2500xs and sold it in going over to the software
sampler. And we took the kurzweil pianos for granted. So is there is
piano sample I can load into an emagic exs24 that will come close to
those supple kurzweil modules? Even the kurzweil's standard piano
program was practically real. Which kurzweil do I have to buy to just
get those piano sounds...or, perhaps, which piano sample is the one to
use for pop/rock? I have this "ProSamples Vol 18 Steinway Grand
Piano" that I got for $50. It is nearly unusable for me. Has anyone
reading heard the PMI Yamaha C7 samples?

Try Steinberg "The Grand", if that isn't real enough for you, get a real
piano.

In article ,
says...
We had this kurzweil k2500xs and sold it in going over to the software
sampler. And we took the kurzweil pianos for granted. So is there is
piano sample I can load into an emagic exs24 that will come close to
those supple kurzweil modules? Even the kurzweil's standard piano
program was practically real. Which kurzweil do I have to buy to just
get those piano sounds...or, perhaps, which piano sample is the one to
use for pop/rock? I have this "ProSamples Vol 18 Steinway Grand
Piano" that I got for $50. It is nearly unusable for me. Has anyone
reading heard the PMI Yamaha C7 samples?

Here's a great site for sampled piano info:

http://www.af.lu.se/~fogwall/piano.html

Note that he's in love with the RealPiano expander, but I have not been
too impressed with mine.



--
Jay Levitt |
Wellesley, MA | Hi!
Faster: jay at jay dot eff-em | Where are we going?
http://www.jay.fm | Why am I in this handbasket?

In article ,
says...
We had this kurzweil k2500xs and sold it in going over to the software
sampler. And we took the kurzweil pianos for granted. So is there is
piano sample I can load into an emagic exs24 that will come close to
those supple kurzweil modules? Even the kurzweil's standard piano
program was practically real. Which kurzweil do I have to buy to just
get those piano sounds...or, perhaps, which piano sample is the one to
use for pop/rock? I have this "ProSamples Vol 18 Steinway Grand
Piano" that I got for $50. It is nearly unusable for me. Has anyone
reading heard the PMI Yamaha C7 samples?

Here's a great site for sampled piano info:

http://www.af.lu.se/~fogwall/piano.html

Note that he's in love with the RealPiano expander, but I have not been
too impressed with mine.



--
Jay Levitt |
Wellesley, MA | Hi!
Faster: jay at jay dot eff-em | Where are we going?
http://www.jay.fm | Why am I in this handbasket?

In article writes:

We had this kurzweil k2500xs and sold it in going over to the software
sampler. And we took the kurzweil pianos for granted. So is there is
piano sample I can load into an emagic exs24 that will come close to
those supple kurzweil modules?

Too bad you sold the K2500 before you sampled it.

There are so many things that sound like so many different versions of
a piano that it's hard to say what's best. Use what you like, and keep
searching if you don't like what you have.

Which kurzweil do I have to buy to just
get those piano sounds...or, perhaps, which piano sample is the one to
use for pop/rock?

"pop/rock" typically calls for not just one piano sound, but whichever
one seems to fit the song best. It's not like classical music where
the right piano is the one that suits the pianist's touch the best and
is capabable of being tuned to work right in the hall.

The advantage of an electronic piano (be it hardware or a computer and
a load of samples) is that by turning a knob or virtual knob, you can
quickly try various sounds and find the one that fits best. And once
you get close, you can tweak the sound so that it's just right.

You can still get a very large collection of samples for much less
than the cost of a real piano (which might not fit your music anyway)
so just keep hunting. When you get really fussy about it, your
"pop/rock" isn't the same as anyone else's, so everyone really wants a
different sound.

I think the way you should approach your search is to state what
piano samples you presently own, and ask about samples that sound
substantially different from those. That will give you a different
bucket of paint to work with.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article writes:

We had this kurzweil k2500xs and sold it in going over to the software
sampler. And we took the kurzweil pianos for granted. So is there is
piano sample I can load into an emagic exs24 that will come close to
those supple kurzweil modules?

Too bad you sold the K2500 before you sampled it.

There are so many things that sound like so many different versions of
a piano that it's hard to say what's best. Use what you like, and keep
searching if you don't like what you have.

Which kurzweil do I have to buy to just
get those piano sounds...or, perhaps, which piano sample is the one to
use for pop/rock?

"pop/rock" typically calls for not just one piano sound, but whichever
one seems to fit the song best. It's not like classical music where
the right piano is the one that suits the pianist's touch the best and
is capabable of being tuned to work right in the hall.

The advantage of an electronic piano (be it hardware or a computer and
a load of samples) is that by turning a knob or virtual knob, you can
quickly try various sounds and find the one that fits best. And once
you get close, you can tweak the sound so that it's just right.

You can still get a very large collection of samples for much less
than the cost of a real piano (which might not fit your music anyway)
so just keep hunting. When you get really fussy about it, your
"pop/rock" isn't the same as anyone else's, so everyone really wants a
different sound.

I think the way you should approach your search is to state what
piano samples you presently own, and ask about samples that sound
substantially different from those. That will give you a different
bucket of paint to work with.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

"Jay Levitt" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
We had this kurzweil k2500xs and sold it in going over to the software
sampler. And we took the kurzweil pianos for granted. So is there is
piano sample I can load into an emagic exs24 that will come close to
those supple kurzweil modules? Even the kurzweil's standard piano
program was practically real. Which kurzweil do I have to buy to just
get those piano sounds...or, perhaps, which piano sample is the one to
use for pop/rock? I have this "ProSamples Vol 18 Steinway Grand
Piano" that I got for $50. It is nearly unusable for me. Has anyone
reading heard the PMI Yamaha C7 samples?

Here's a great site for sampled piano info:

http://www.af.lu.se/~fogwall/piano.html


And another with lots of samples to listen to:
http://purgatorycreek.com/pianocompare.html

"Jay Levitt" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
We had this kurzweil k2500xs and sold it in going over to the software
sampler. And we took the kurzweil pianos for granted. So is there is
piano sample I can load into an emagic exs24 that will come close to
those supple kurzweil modules? Even the kurzweil's standard piano
program was practically real. Which kurzweil do I have to buy to just
get those piano sounds...or, perhaps, which piano sample is the one to
use for pop/rock? I have this "ProSamples Vol 18 Steinway Grand
Piano" that I got for $50. It is nearly unusable for me. Has anyone
reading heard the PMI Yamaha C7 samples?

Here's a great site for sampled piano info:

http://www.af.lu.se/~fogwall/piano.html


And another with lots of samples to listen to:
http://purgatorycreek.com/pianocompare.html

"Andrew" wrote in message
m...
We had this kurzweil k2500xs and sold it in going over to the software
sampler. And we took the kurzweil pianos for granted. So is there is
piano sample I can load into an emagic exs24 that will come close to
those supple kurzweil modules? Even the kurzweil's standard piano
program was practically real. Which kurzweil do I have to buy to just
get those piano sounds...or, perhaps, which piano sample is the one to
use for pop/rock? I have this "ProSamples Vol 18 Steinway Grand
Piano" that I got for $50. It is nearly unusable for me. Has anyone
reading heard the PMI Yamaha C7 samples?

You can get the half-rack Kurzweil sample box for pretty cheap (maybe 400),
and the samples are damn good.

jb

"Andrew" wrote in message
m...
We had this kurzweil k2500xs and sold it in going over to the software
sampler. And we took the kurzweil pianos for granted. So is there is
piano sample I can load into an emagic exs24 that will come close to
those supple kurzweil modules? Even the kurzweil's standard piano
program was practically real. Which kurzweil do I have to buy to just
get those piano sounds...or, perhaps, which piano sample is the one to
use for pop/rock? I have this "ProSamples Vol 18 Steinway Grand
Piano" that I got for $50. It is nearly unusable for me. Has anyone
reading heard the PMI Yamaha C7 samples?

You can get the half-rack Kurzweil sample box for pretty cheap (maybe 400),
and the samples are damn good.

jb

The advantage of an electronic piano (be it hardware or a computer and
a load of samples) is that by turning a knob or virtual knob, you can
quickly try various sounds and find the one that fits best. And once
you get close, you can tweak the sound so that it's just right.

The other advantage is that you save on a good sounding room,
expensive mics and preamps print it to tape

The advantage of an electronic piano (be it hardware or a computer and
a load of samples) is that by turning a knob or virtual knob, you can
quickly try various sounds and find the one that fits best. And once
you get close, you can tweak the sound so that it's just right.

The other advantage is that you save on a good sounding room,
expensive mics and preamps print it to tape

the Coakley erfect Piano for the Kurzweil is pretty good.
--Lou Gimenez
The Music Lab
2" 24track w all the Goodies
www.musiclabnyc.com



From: "Romeo Rondeau"
Organization: Airnews.net!
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 09:44:37 -0500
Subject: Is kurzweil the best fake piano?


"Andrew" wrote in message
m...
We had this kurzweil k2500xs and sold it in going over to the software
sampler. And we took the kurzweil pianos for granted. So is there is
piano sample I can load into an emagic exs24 that will come close to
those supple kurzweil modules? Even the kurzweil's standard piano
program was practically real. Which kurzweil do I have to buy to just
get those piano sounds...or, perhaps, which piano sample is the one to
use for pop/rock? I have this "ProSamples Vol 18 Steinway Grand
Piano" that I got for $50. It is nearly unusable for me. Has anyone
reading heard the PMI Yamaha C7 samples?

Try Steinberg "The Grand", if that isn't real enough for you, get a real
piano.

the Coakley erfect Piano for the Kurzweil is pretty good.
--Lou Gimenez
The Music Lab
2" 24track w all the Goodies
www.musiclabnyc.com



From: "Romeo Rondeau"
Organization: Airnews.net!
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 09:44:37 -0500
Subject: Is kurzweil the best fake piano?


"Andrew" wrote in message
m...
We had this kurzweil k2500xs and sold it in going over to the software
sampler. And we took the kurzweil pianos for granted. So is there is
piano sample I can load into an emagic exs24 that will come close to
those supple kurzweil modules? Even the kurzweil's standard piano
program was practically real. Which kurzweil do I have to buy to just
get those piano sounds...or, perhaps, which piano sample is the one to
use for pop/rock? I have this "ProSamples Vol 18 Steinway Grand
Piano" that I got for $50. It is nearly unusable for me. Has anyone
reading heard the PMI Yamaha C7 samples?

Try Steinberg "The Grand", if that isn't real enough for you, get a real
piano.

I've been inside a lot of Kurzweil keyboards (PC88, PC2, K2500, K2600), and
I'd never buy one. The engineering is wholly unimpressive, and they are a
pain in the ass to work on. If you want the Kurzweil sound, get a K2600RS
and control it with the midi controller of your choice. (If you want a well
built, serviceable keyboard, get a Motif 8.)


"Andrew" wrote in message
m...
We had this kurzweil k2500xs and sold it in going over to the software
sampler. And we took the kurzweil pianos for granted. So is there is
piano sample I can load into an emagic exs24 that will come close to
those supple kurzweil modules? Even the kurzweil's standard piano
program was practically real. Which kurzweil do I have to buy to just
get those piano sounds...or, perhaps, which piano sample is the one to
use for pop/rock? I have this "ProSamples Vol 18 Steinway Grand
Piano" that I got for $50. It is nearly unusable for me. Has anyone
reading heard the PMI Yamaha C7 samples?

I've been inside a lot of Kurzweil keyboards (PC88, PC2, K2500, K2600), and
I'd never buy one. The engineering is wholly unimpressive, and they are a
pain in the ass to work on. If you want the Kurzweil sound, get a K2600RS
and control it with the midi controller of your choice. (If you want a well
built, serviceable keyboard, get a Motif 8.)


"Andrew" wrote in message
m...
We had this kurzweil k2500xs and sold it in going over to the software
sampler. And we took the kurzweil pianos for granted. So is there is
piano sample I can load into an emagic exs24 that will come close to
those supple kurzweil modules? Even the kurzweil's standard piano
program was practically real. Which kurzweil do I have to buy to just
get those piano sounds...or, perhaps, which piano sample is the one to
use for pop/rock? I have this "ProSamples Vol 18 Steinway Grand
Piano" that I got for $50. It is nearly unusable for me. Has anyone
reading heard the PMI Yamaha C7 samples?

(Andrew) wrote in message om...
[snip]
I have this "ProSamples Vol 18 Steinway Grand
Piano" that I got for $50. It is nearly unusable for me. Has anyone
reading heard the PMI Yamaha C7 samples?

It's such a personal taste thing. I use the PMI Bosendorfer 290 dry
sample set, which is nowhere near as dry as their Steinway set, and
has, to my ears, a beautiful treble register in particular, that
really shimmers, and there's just enough 'air' so that you wouldn't
normally want to add any reverb, the recording environment was just
beautiful (the wet sounds are far too ambient, in my opinion, though
some people by the full set of wet & dry and then mix them).

But you might not love it for, say, rock piano, where perhaps you
would find it sounding a little tubby and wooden.

Having said this, the LE dry Bosendorfer set sells for such a small
amount of money - around a hundred bucks, if I recall, that you aren't
gonna be too much out of pocket for it.

There is a site (search in google for 'digital piano shootout') with
excellent MP3s you can download of all sorts of pianos. This should
give you an excellent idea of what you can get.

(Andrew) wrote in message om...
[snip]
I have this "ProSamples Vol 18 Steinway Grand
Piano" that I got for $50. It is nearly unusable for me. Has anyone
reading heard the PMI Yamaha C7 samples?

It's such a personal taste thing. I use the PMI Bosendorfer 290 dry
sample set, which is nowhere near as dry as their Steinway set, and
has, to my ears, a beautiful treble register in particular, that
really shimmers, and there's just enough 'air' so that you wouldn't
normally want to add any reverb, the recording environment was just
beautiful (the wet sounds are far too ambient, in my opinion, though
some people by the full set of wet & dry and then mix them).

But you might not love it for, say, rock piano, where perhaps you
would find it sounding a little tubby and wooden.

Having said this, the LE dry Bosendorfer set sells for such a small
amount of money - around a hundred bucks, if I recall, that you aren't
gonna be too much out of pocket for it.

There is a site (search in google for 'digital piano shootout') with
excellent MP3s you can download of all sorts of pianos. This should
give you an excellent idea of what you can get.

On 24 Jun 2004 00:20:45 -0700, (Andrew) wrote:

We had this kurzweil k2500xs and sold it in going over to the software
sampler. And we took the kurzweil pianos for granted. So is there is
piano sample I can load into an emagic exs24 that will come close to
those supple kurzweil modules? Even the kurzweil's standard piano
program was practically real. Which kurzweil do I have to buy to just
get those piano sounds...or, perhaps, which piano sample is the one to
use for pop/rock? I have this "ProSamples Vol 18 Steinway Grand
Piano" that I got for $50. It is nearly unusable for me. Has anyone
reading heard the PMI Yamaha C7 samples?

I think it's excellent.

On 24 Jun 2004 00:20:45 -0700, (Andrew) wrote:

We had this kurzweil k2500xs and sold it in going over to the software
sampler. And we took the kurzweil pianos for granted. So is there is
piano sample I can load into an emagic exs24 that will come close to
those supple kurzweil modules? Even the kurzweil's standard piano
program was practically real. Which kurzweil do I have to buy to just
get those piano sounds...or, perhaps, which piano sample is the one to
use for pop/rock? I have this "ProSamples Vol 18 Steinway Grand
Piano" that I got for $50. It is nearly unusable for me. Has anyone
reading heard the PMI Yamaha C7 samples?

I think it's excellent.

I remember the original Kurzweil. First playing "DAMN, that's nice . .
" after about a minute, I realized there was no real "expression" just
velocity sensitive volume control.



The K2600RS goes a few steps deeper (if you have ROM3 in it). It is a
triple-strike sample with excellent blends between velocity layers. Better
than any sample library I have tried. The triple-strike piano is expressive
and sounds pretty good, except for the characteristic 'thunk' in the middle
C range and the 5th above it. That was fixed for me by a soundware designer
who knows how to program the K, so that the thunk is gone and now it sounds
great. I've stopped looking for sample CDs for piano.

I also have a K2500RS, and yes, you're right.. the piano is rather limited.
The K2600RS with ROM3 has nuances, from dim and dark to bright and twangy,
depending on how you play it. And it makes use of the Soft Pedal (MIDI 66),
which I like for even more expressive control.

Outside the Piano, the K2600RS is a phenomenal box for making innovative
sounds. It is the core of my MIDI setup and my favorite performance
instrument.


--
Take care,

Mark & Mary Ann Weiss

VIDEO PRODUCTION • FILM SCANNING • DVD MASTERING • AUDIO RESTORATION
Hear my Kurzweil Creations at: http://www.dv-clips.com/theater.htm
Business sites at:
www.dv-clips.com
www.mwcomms.com
www.adventuresinanimemusic.com
-