"John Atkinson" wrote

Because the thead in which I invited Arny Krueger to debate me
in New York next May was getting cluttered, I have reposted the
relevant messages here. For Mr. Krueger's and my convenience,
please post any further comments on this proposed debate in this
thread.

Arny Krueger responded to my invitation on December 7, in message
"Of course that's a long way from home, but let's see if I can put
something together."

The ball is thus in his court.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

OK, you've kicked the tires. What is the substance and
motivation of your offer, really? Are you prepared to
enter into an enforcable written agreement? Obviously,
you cannot consummate any agreement between hostile
parties on USEnet.


"No restrictions on what subjects", "let's see if I can
put something together"... of course neither of you
really mean what you're offering.

I don't see how you can say that, Mr. Powell. If he accepts my
invitation, I will provide Mr. Krueger with a public forum,
specifically a lecture room with an audience, to debate me on
any subject either of us thinks appropriate.

"either of us thinks appropriate"... so this wouldn't
necessarily be an unilateral agreement (Law,
pertaining to a contract in which obligation rests on one
party only), right? You said, "No restrictions," that would
mean that Arny doesn't require your approval of his
agenda, no? Which is it, censorship (your approval) or
autonomy for Arny?


As I said, I also think it appropriate for both us to take
questions from the audience. And as I also said, I will
pay Mr. Krueger's expenses, specifically a return coach
air ticket from Detroit and 2 nights accommodation in the
Show hotel.

Fine, great idea. It would be appropriate for you to have a
Talent Contract (work for hire) with Arny. And if your offer is
sincere there should also be a hold harmless addendum
shielding Arny from any concerns that the incident could be
used to advance a litigation. You've often alluded to litigation
in past posts.

And since you also mentioned recording the spectacle, it
should be made public that the multimedia format you
intend to release is “fair use and royalty free” to anyone.

Oh, and let's not forget the money. He turned down $1K
last time. Seems like you should step up to the plate with
some real money this time, if you expect your offer to be
taken seriously.


All this I think reasonable. I see no reason why this debate
could not take place next May along the lines I have
suggested.

"Reasonable"... no two people can agree on what
that constitutes. It usually requires 12 opened minded
people confined to a tiny little room .

In a debate with Arny, how can you assure Arny/anyone
that your representation will be forthright and not just
representing the interest of your employer, your first duty?
I don’t think your handlers want a loose cannon on stage
or negative repercussions afterwards... so what makes
this offer legitimate and not merely a dog and pony show
or just a R.A.O. stunt to kick-the-tires again (1999
Debacle )?

Powell wrote:
What is the substance and motivation of your offer, really?

With all due respect, Mr. Powell, the form of the debate and the
substance of any agreement is not your concern. I have outlined my
basic ideas on the matter. As I said, I am now waiting for Mr. Krueger
to offer _his_ thoughts.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

"John Atkinson" wrote in message
ups.com
Powell wrote:
What is the substance and motivation of your offer, really?

With all due respect, Mr. Powell, the form of the debate and the
substance of any agreement is not your concern. I have outlined my
basic ideas on the matter. As I said, I am now waiting for Mr. Krueger
to offer _his_ thoughts.

My thoughts are that I intend to show up at the specified time and place and
see what shakes.

Arny Krueger wrote:
"John Atkinson" wrote in message
ups.com
I am now waiting for Mr. Krueger to offer _his_ thoughts.

My thoughts are that I intend to show up at the specified time and
place and see what shakes.

Is this a "yes," Mr. Krueger? I'm just asking for clarification,
because
once you give me a definite positive answer, I have to commit to a
not-inconsiderable expenditu the meeting room cost, your round-trip
plane fare, and your hotel room cost.

(For yours and my convenience I posted my invitation to you in
message .com)

But as I said earlier, I am not pressuring you for a commitment either
way right now. The deadline will be early February, because after that
it will be difficult for me to get the debate/discussion/whatever you
wish to call it included in the show program.
Sincerely
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

"John Atkinson" wrote in message
oups.com
Arny Krueger wrote:
"John Atkinson" wrote in message
ups.com
I am now waiting for Mr. Krueger to offer _his_ thoughts.

My thoughts are that I intend to show up at the specified time and
place and see what shakes.

Is this a "yes," Mr. Krueger? I'm just asking for clarification,
because
once you give me a definite positive answer, I have to commit to a
not-inconsiderable expenditu the meeting room cost, your round-trip
plane fare, and your hotel room cost.

(For yours and my convenience I posted my invitation to you in
message .com)

But as I said earlier, I am not pressuring you for a commitment either
way right now. The deadline will be early February, because after that
it will be difficult for me to get the debate/discussion/whatever you
wish to call it included in the show program.

I will give you my *final answer* by the end of January, if that's all right
with you.

Arny Krueger wrote:
"John Atkinson" wrote in message
oups.com
as I said earlier, I am not pressuring you for a commitment either
way right now. The deadline will be early February, because after
that it will be difficult for me to get the
debate/discussion/whatever
you wish to call it included in the show program.

I will give you my *final answer* by the end of January, if that's
all
right with you.

That will be fine, Mr. Krueger. I don't understand why you need that
much time, but as long as I receive a definite acceptance of my
invitation from you by February 1, I can both plan the event and
publicize it in the magazine.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

"John Atkinson" wrote

Powell wrote:
What is the substance and motivation of your
offer, really?

With all due respect, Mr. Powell, the form of the debate
and the substance of any agreement is not your concern.

Next time don't start a new thread with my name on it
if you don't want an honest commentary about your
professionalism, or lack thereof. Hissy-fit noted.


I have outlined my basic ideas on the matter. As I
said, I am now waiting for Mr. Krueger to
offer _his_ thoughts.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

Arny wrote "My thoughts are that I intend to show up at
the specified time and place and see what shakes."

Enough said on the subject? Satisfied? Ready
to make business commitments? Do the metaphors
about "crying wolf" or "once bitten, twice shy" mean
anything to you? I think you're ready for another
life lesson, Atkinson, Krueger style .

Powell wrote:
"John Atkinson" wrote
Powell wrote:
What is the substance and motivation of your offer,
really?

With all due respect, Mr. Powell, the form of the debate
and the substance of any agreement is not your concern.

Next time don't start a new thread with my name on it
if you don't want an honest commentary about your
professionalism, or lack thereof. Hissy-fit noted.

I am sorry for being brusque, Mr. Powell. But I really think
that third parties others such as yourself injecting yourselves
into the negotiations confuse things rather than help. But please
note I didn't "start a new thread with [your] name on it." I have
no idea what you mean by that, unless you are objecting to my
quoting your original question to me.

I have outlined my basic ideas on the matter. As I
said, I am now waiting for Mr. Krueger to offer _his_
thoughts.

Arny wrote "My thoughts are that I intend to show up at
the specified time and place and see what shakes."

Enough said on the subject? Satisfied? Ready to make
business commitments?

As you will note, I have asked Arny Krueger if this response means
he is accepting my invitation. Please note that taken literally,
his response is not equivalent to accepting my invitation, only
that _that_ is what he is thinking of. Once I get a clear
commitment from Mr. Kreuger, I will arrange for the debate to
take place.

Do the metaphors about "crying wolf" or "once bitten, twice
shy" mean anything to you? I think you're ready for another
life lesson, Atkinson, Krueger style .

We shall see, Mr. Powell. My invitation was indeed serious.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile