In article writes:

I don't know if that betrays more ignorance or prejucide about
braodcat engineers & DJ's. You seem to be thinking of music station
operation

I am. I've really only known small, local stations and NPR (which was
one of the earliest adopters of automation).

I didn't really think networks cared that much about fidelity because
they were limited to 5 kHz on AM anyway.

Rotten thought apparatus indicated on the scope again:

My AM radio listening days stopped completely by 1960. The only reason
I ever listen to AM today is in my car when I'm traveling and see a
flashing "Tune to 560 for traffic information" sign. But I remember
being told by a reasonable source that the FCC regulation at the time
was a 5 kHz bandwidth for AM, 15 kHz for FM. And before FM broadcast,
AM receivers really didn't do much above 5 kHz anyway. Even the
"consoles" that contained a record player as well as a radio didn't
reproduce anything worth mentioning above 10 kHz, and there should be
no problem getting that off the inside of a transcription disk. If the
broadcast industry really did take wide frequency response and low
tracing distortion seriously, they were probably going in the wrong
direction to improve the fidelity of broadcasts.

FM was pretty good in the '70's and '80's, and there are still a few
classical stations with a conscience that broadcast in remarkably good
fidelity. Everything else has gone to the dogs.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1079884522k@trad...?
they'd never be able to start two turntables at
once and have them stay in sync well enough to crossfade between them
after 15 minutes or so.

It's really pretty easy to cue them up and start them at the same time but
hard to describe... just 'scratch cue' them to the start point, rotate them
back about a third of a turn (to keep 'em from wowing in), start the
turntable while holding the discs still and let 'em go at the same time. A
no-brainer after a little practice. Keeping them in sync was something else
but the big transcription turntables they used were steady enough to hold
sync well enough for a radio program.


--
Chris White, Freelance Advertising Writer & Voice Overs*
Email: Web: www.chriswhite.com
Phone: 757-621-1348
*Your opinion may vary

Lars wrote:
(Scott Dorsey) wrote in message ...
Don P. wrote:

Anybody remember the old picture discs from years ago?

Years ago? At least three plants I can name are still set up to make
'em. You pay a noise floor penalty in the process, though, because you
can't use the black styrene filler in the vinyl mix (which gives you
a quieter surface) and you have to modify the pressing times a bit.

Does this also mean that a "colored" vinyl disc that's not a picture
disc (for example an all red disc) would have a higher noise floor
than a black one?

Everything else being equal, yes. The swirled colors aren't any worse
than the solids, though.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

(Scott Dorsey) wrote in message news:

Sound familiar to you at all?

Not off the top of my head. It's good information though. I'll do some
research and see what I can come up with.

Paul Gold
brooklynphono
www.vinylmastering.net

I should add that the examples of "groove locked" 12"s I've seen
came from Detroit. I seem to remember reading one of the label
guys stating that they could perform some of these techniques
because the lathes they used were ex-Motown, if that's any clue. A
friend has a Detriot release where there are 2 tracks on one side
with the outer track playing outside-in and the inner track
playing inside-out, this one will screw a dj if they've been at
the herbal cigarettes!

Cheers,
Justin




----------
Sent via SPRACI - http://www.spraci.net/ - Parties,Raves,Clubs,Festivals

"Chris!" wrote in message news:V8g7c.12974$F91.5967@lakeread05...
"Paul Gold" wrote in message
om...
I For radio dramas and film
sountracks on disk the direction of playback would be outside in
followed by inside out followed by ouside in, to prevent a noticeable
change in sound quality.

The CBS radio network would sometimes cut two transcriptions at the same
time... one inside out, the other outside in. For playback they would start
them simultaneously and cross fade at the mid point so the sound quality
would be better.

It could be that all the 'nets did it that way, but I heard this from an old
time CBS engineer.


That sounds like an incredible waste of time. I haven't listened to
records in a while, but I am old enough to have grown up with them. I
certainly don't remember the difference in quality being so great as
to warrant this. Plus all the headaches of trying to make sure the
sync was perfect? Blarghh! Stupid rich people!

(Scott Dorsey) wrote in message ...

There was another Monty Python album that was done that way. It's actually
easier to do with a microgroove lathe than it was back in the 78 days. Also
there were a couple 12" singles in the eighties done that way too, just to
annoy DJs.
--scott

How is this actually done? Is the record cut four times, with the
gears set up to drive the cutter towards the center at four times the
speed? Or are four seperate cutters used at the same time? The
engineer in me wants to say that it would be more reliable, though
vastly more expensive, to do it the later.

In article ,
Ryan wrote:
(Scott Dorsey) wrote in message ...

There was another Monty Python album that was done that way. It's actually
easier to do with a microgroove lathe than it was back in the 78 days. Also
there were a couple 12" singles in the eighties done that way too, just to
annoy DJs.

How is this actually done? Is the record cut four times, with the
gears set up to drive the cutter towards the center at four times the
speed?

Yes. Modern lathes have a continuously variable control... if you are
cutting constant pitch, you just dial the number of grooves per inch that
you want and there's no need to change gears of leadscrews.

So you just turn the modulation down and turn the pitch up, and you have
plenty of space between grooves to lay down a second and third groove.
Have to be careful not to overcut things, though.

Or are four seperate cutters used at the same time? The
engineer in me wants to say that it would be more reliable, though
vastly more expensive, to do it the later.

That would require a very custom lathe.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

(Scott Dorsey) wrote in message ...

There was another Monty Python album that was done that way.

Are you sure ? I can only recall Matching Tie having a double groove.

Also
there were a couple 12" singles in the eighties done that way too, just to
annoy DJs.
--scott

As far as I recall, Matching Tie was the first double groove LP and
Pop Music by M was the first double groove 12" single.

Most unusual LP in existance?

Group: rec.audio.pro Date: Mon, Mar 22, 2004, 12:31am From:
(Scott=A0Dorsey)
Paul Gold wrote:
(Scott Dorsey) wrote in message news


I _think_ one of the things that is scratched out says "Sound
Dimensions" and the signature maybe says SSO or SSN in a circle. What
might be a phone number, 734-728-5370.


That's an active number in Canton, Michigan.

Eric





"RAMPS @ NAB: 4/20/04: Napoleons Bar, Paris Hotel"

In the
dawn of disk cutting there was a noticeable change in sound quality
between the outside and inside of a disk.

This is still true. The groove passes the stylus at a higher speed on the
outside. The slower groove speed at the inner portion of the disk often
influenced song order, inasmuch as, for example, an a capella female vocal will
be considerably more distorted when it's the last cut on a side.


Scott Fraser

there are still a few
classical stations with a conscience that broadcast in remarkably good
fidelity. Everything else has gone to the dogs.

AKA Clear Channel.


Scott Fraser

ScotFraser wrote:
there are still a few
classical stations with a conscience that broadcast in remarkably good
fidelity. Everything else has gone to the dogs.

AKA Clear Channel.

No, the Loudness Wars began long before Clear Channel started taking over.

In fact, if anything, the aggressive overcompression has been reduced
somewhat. When one company owns all the stations in a small market, the
need for processing competition is reduced.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

In fact, if anything, the aggressive overcompression has been reduced
somewhat. When one company owns all the stations in a small market, the
need for processing competition is reduced.

IF they feel a need to return to quality after they've established their
monopoly in that market.
The compression thing seems to be a virus, though, not related strictly to
market pressures. The listener supported Pacifica station in LA, KPFK, used to
have a pretty decent sounding signal chain & many of their classical & jazz
programs (now mostly replaced by political blather) sounded very good. Now I
find even the talk almost unlistenable in a car on the freeway, as the noise
modulation is simply hideous.


Scott Fraser

(Allan Young) writes:

(Scott Dorsey) wrote in message ...

There was another Monty Python album that was done that way.

Are you sure ? I can only recall Matching Tie having a double groove.

Also
there were a couple 12" singles in the eighties done that way too, just to
annoy DJs.
--scott

As far as I recall, Matching Tie was the first double groove LP and
Pop Music by M was the first double groove 12" single.

So how much is Matching Tie worth?

LRM

Nothing really weird about it, but I used to own a transparent yellow
bootleg LP of one of Elton John's first little concerts at the
Troubador in L.A (before almost anyone had ever heard of him). I sold
it about 15 years ago and have regretted it ever since.

Peter Rhalter

(Bob Morris) wrote in message ...

So how much is Matching Tie worth?

LRM

(Does a quick search on eBay)

Bugger all, it looks like. A copy sold for four quid recently and
another didn't get any bids at five quid.

Allan.

"Allan Young" wrote in message
om...
(Scott Dorsey) wrote in message
...

There was another Monty Python album that was done that way.

Are you sure ? I can only recall Matching Tie having a double groove.

IIRC, the other Monty Python album was "Monty Python's Contractural
Obligation Album". Side B was double grooved.

Derek

"Derek Gee" wrote in message .. .

IIRC, the other Monty Python album was "Monty Python's Contractural
Obligation Album". Side B was double grooved.

Derek

It's definitely not Contractual Obligation. I bought this on its
first release - complete with John Denver singing "You came on my
pillow" - and there was no double groove.

Scott Dorsey wrote:
Sound familiar to you at all? I don't know any of the guys cutting DJ
stuff these days.

nilz @ the exchange (nilesh patel) does tons of dance music vinyl
mastering.

--
Aaron J. Grier | "Not your ordinary poofy goof." |
"someday the industry will have throbbing frontal lobes and will be able
to write provably correct software. also, I want a pony." -- Zach Brown

On 18 Mar 2004 16:37:57 GMT, (Bob
Morris) wrote:

I have what is probably the most unusual LP ever made.

It's called Monty Python's Matching Tie and Handkerchief.

The sleeve is a "trompe d'oeil" which from a distance looks like
a box with a tie and handkerchief inside!

There is nothing on the box to tell you that the LP inside
is any different than ususal.

However, on one side, there are two interleaved tracks!!!!

Which track you get depends on where you put the pickup down.

The uninformed may be driven to insanity by this LP!

Any bids?

Bob morris
I had a friend in my teenage times, we used to smoke a lot of pot and
listen to records. He had a mint Miracord turntable and we always
pretty much put a record on and did the auto thing with it. Listening
to this record it always started the same track every time. One day we
went back to listen to a specific section of this record and
discovered the second audio track. With a head full of the "Herb" this
was a startling discovery.

On 18 Mar 2004 16:37:57 GMT, (Bob
Morris) wrote:

I have what is probably the most unusual LP ever made.

It's called Monty Python's Matching Tie and Handkerchief.

The sleeve is a "trompe d'oeil" which from a distance looks like
a box with a tie and handkerchief inside!

There is nothing on the box to tell you that the LP inside
is any different than ususal.

However, on one side, there are two interleaved tracks!!!!

Which track you get depends on where you put the pickup down.

The uninformed may be driven to insanity by this LP!

Not really a new idea; back in the 1920s "puzzle records" with up to three
interleaved tracks were marketed. Victor put out one by Jimmie Rodgers.

Peace,
Paul

(Bob Morris) wrote in message ...
I have what is probably the most unusual LP ever made.

It's called Monty Python's Matching Tie and Handkerchief.

The sleeve is a "trompe d'oeil" which from a distance looks like
a box with a tie and handkerchief inside!

There is nothing on the box to tell you that the LP inside
is any different than ususal.

However, on one side, there are two interleaved tracks!!!!

Which track you get depends on where you put the pickup down.

The uninformed may be driven to insanity by this LP!

Any bids?

Bob morris

How about this-

It has the standard number of grooves and no fancy packaging, but my
friend has a performance LP by Marcel Marceau (the famous French
mime).

Both sides are silent until the very end of side 2, which has
applause.

I think it's in stereo... really.

Bob Singleton

(Allan Young) wrote in message . com...

As far as I recall, Matching Tie was the first double groove LP and
Pop Music by M was the first double groove 12" single.

There was more than one version of MT&H. The earlier pressings were
the 3-sided version. Both sides were labeled "Side B".

As far as I recall, Matching Tie was the first double groove LP and
Pop Music by M was the first double groove 12" single.

There was more than one version of MT&H. The earlier pressings were
the 3-sided version. Both sides were labeled "Side B".
In the middle of the 80ties In poland, where I'm from, they issued what I
believe was the first multimedia disc ever. Last track of an LP of a band
called "Papa Dance" was a computer game for commodore 64 (just copy to tape,
load and play)

Regardz
tomek