I was wondering what to look for in headphones if I'll be doing field
recording of grand pianos and want to do sound checks to make sure mic
placement is decent (or is there a better approach available that's
reasonably portable?). Also, generally speaking, what considerations should
I make when doing these checks with respect to how things will translate to
my studio monitors?

Thanks,

Dave

David Grant wrote:
I was wondering what to look for in headphones if I'll be doing field
recording of grand pianos and want to do sound checks to make sure mic
placement is decent (or is there a better approach available that's
reasonably portable?). Also, generally speaking, what considerations should
I make when doing these checks with respect to how things will translate to
my studio monitors?

You really are better off with almost anything rather than headphones for
this job. I use a pair of old NHT Super Ones. But what you really need
the thing for is to judge the balance between direct and room sound, which
is the one thing headphones are very bad for.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

I use a set of the Sony MDR V-700 DJ headphones in the field... I prefer
using speakers, but it is often not possible to do that. The low end on
them is a bit large, but they aren't as harsh and fatiguing as 7506's.
Sennheisers and Beyer headphones are good, but often don't have enough
isolation from the room sound- also I find that the Sennheiser Headphones
sound too good. It is difficult for me to hear problems with a recording on
them.

Make sure you have a good headphone amp if you are monitoring on cans... I
use my Benchmark DAC-1 for monitoring speakers and my main headphone amp off
of my DAW.

--Ben

--
Benjamin Maas
Fifth Circle Audio
Los Angeles, CA
http://www.fifthcircle.com

Please remove "Nospam" from address for replies
"David Grant" wrote in message
...
I was wondering what to look for in headphones if I'll be doing field
recording of grand pianos and want to do sound checks to make sure mic
placement is decent (or is there a better approach available that's
reasonably portable?). Also, generally speaking, what considerations
should
I make when doing these checks with respect to how things will translate
to
my studio monitors?

Thanks,

Dave

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
David Grant wrote:
I was wondering what to look for in headphones if I'll be doing field
recording of grand pianos and want to do sound checks to make sure mic
placement is decent (or is there a better approach available that's
reasonably portable?). Also, generally speaking, what considerations
should
I make when doing these checks with respect to how things will translate
to
my studio monitors?

You really are better off with almost anything rather than headphones for
this job. I use a pair of old NHT Super Ones. But what you really need
the thing for is to judge the balance between direct and room sound, which
is the one thing headphones are very bad for.


Interesting...

I've never seen anyone pull out a pair of speakers on a field recording job
before, not that I think you're at all wrong.

Mind me asking what amp you drive them with?
Also I've read they're pretty weak in the bass end, how do you cope?

Dave

1. Good isolation.

2. The ability to play at a high volume level with the equipment you own. This
lets you judge the sound without having to go to another room.

3. When using phones, remember that headphones tend to exaggerate spatiality.
Therefore, make sure the recording sounds overly spacious over 'phones, so it
will sound "normal" on speakers.

I used the Sony MDR-CD6. It had excellent sealing, very high sensitivity and
high power-handling capacity, which meant I could cover the sound of a full
orchestra even when I was standing directly behind the conductor. They are,
unfortunately. long discontinued.

David,

In general it is not so easy to translate from headphones to speakers.
I've found that it takes me a certain amount of trial and error--the
first few recordings that I make with any new set of headphones are not
likely to sound very much the way I expect when played over speakers.

You'll need to learn to listen not for things to sound as you want them
to sound, but more quantitatively/analytically. Only closed headphones
can be seriously considered for situations in which you're in the same
room with the musician(s) you're recording. And headphone sound that is
consistently pleasurable is usually a sign that you're being misled.

For 20+ years I used Beyer DT 48 headphones--then I tried the Sony MDR-V6
which everyone else was using. They have their good points, but they are
not even remotely neutral sounding, and can lead to false conclusions
particularly about the amount of low frequency energy that you're getting.

More recently I tried some AKG headphones (K 270 perhaps?) which were not
at all bad, and then I found the Sennheiser 280 Pro phones which do a much
better job at blocking out room sound than anything else I've ever heard,
and are decent sounding headphones in general, though not super-smooth.
(Something about that upper midrange is not quite right somehow.) Still,
with some practice I can get enough information from them to figure out
where the microphones should go, and they are not hard to drive.

David Grant wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
David Grant wrote:
I was wondering what to look for in headphones if I'll be doing field
recording of grand pianos and want to do sound checks to make sure mic
placement is decent (or is there a better approach available that's
reasonably portable?). Also, generally speaking, what considerations
should
I make when doing these checks with respect to how things will translate
to
my studio monitors?

You really are better off with almost anything rather than headphones for
this job. I use a pair of old NHT Super Ones. But what you really need
the thing for is to judge the balance between direct and room sound, which
is the one thing headphones are very bad for.

Interesting...

I've never seen anyone pull out a pair of speakers on a field recording job
before, not that I think you're at all wrong.

I do it whenever I can. Sometimes I'm stuck in situation where it's
impossible and I am stuck with headphones, and that's never fun.

Mind me asking what amp you drive them with?

I have a 1U high homebrew. It's one of the Nelson Pass boards built into
an old Crown D-60 cabinet. About fifteen watts total. Before that, I was
using a Krell 5W headphone amp, but that weighed more. I think I have
the whole field rack down to about 25 pounds total, plus speakers, mikes,
cables, and stands.

Also I've read they're pretty weak in the bass end, how do you cope?

I can live with that for classical work; I'm not spending a lot of time
balancing low end stuff in the field. And in a pinch, I can always compare
with headphones.

Before the Super Ones, I was using LS 3/5as in the field, and they have far
more restricted low end. But for me, it's a lot more important to be able
to judge soundstage than low end in the field, in part because there isn't
all that much I can really do about low end problems in the field.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

In Article , "David Grant"
wrote:
I was wondering what to look for in headphones if I'll be doing field
recording of grand pianos and want to do sound checks to make sure mic
placement is decent (or is there a better approach available that's
reasonably portable?). Also, generally speaking, what considerations should
I make when doing these checks with respect to how things will translate to
my studio monitors?

Thanks,

Dave



1. Don't expect any sort of translation frequency response-wise.
2. Use Sony MDR7506

Use the phones to get good placement in terms of proximity and off-axis
response of the mics. Don't even try to torture yourself with getting phones
to sound like studio monitors. Have you ever heard two sets of different
make/model studio monitors that sound the same?

Regards,

Ty Ford

For Ty Ford V/O demos, audio services and equipment reviews,
click on http://www.jagunet.com/~tford

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message ...
1. Good isolation.

2. The ability to play at a high volume level with the equipment you own. This
lets you judge the sound without having to go to another room.

3. When using phones, remember that headphones tend to exaggerate spatiality.
Therefore, make sure the recording sounds overly spacious over 'phones, so it
will sound "normal" on speakers.

I used the Sony MDR-CD6. It had excellent sealing, very high sensitivity and
high power-handling capacity, which meant I could cover the sound of a full
orchestra even when I was standing directly behind the conductor. They are,
unfortunately. long discontinued.



Imagine my flabbergastedness at finding myself in sustantial
agreement with Mr. Sommerwerck! :-)

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On 2004-03-05 (ScottDorsey) said:
I was wondering what to look for in headphones if I'll be doing
field recording of grand pianos and want to do sound checks to
make sure mic placement is decent (or is there a better approach
available that's reasonably portable?).
You really are better off with almost anything rather than
headphones for this job. I use a pair of old NHT Super Ones. But
what you really need the thing for is to judge the balance between
direct and room sound, which is the one thing headphones are very
bad for.

I used to carry this so-called boom box, a portable stereo I used a
lot in motel rooms etc. THe speakers were detachable. I'd set up in
another room, sometimes not that well isolated from the performance
space either, but some isolation was helpful and get balances.

About a decade ago I took a REvox a77 and some not real great mics to
do a vocal sextet in a church basement in southeastern IOwa. I sat
my rig up in a separate space which was mainly isolated by distance
and some curtains and movable walls. THe director of this group and
also the accompanist said they planned on knocking out twelve pieces
in this six hour session. I laughed and said if they got six to eight
we'd be doing good, but we'd probably have to schedule another
session.

A few run through while I moved microphones and got things dialed in
took a little over an hour. Once I had everything where I wanted it
I taped markers to the floor so that the group would assume the same
positions after we would take a break. IT was a pleasnt surprise, we
knocked out all twelve songs. Even got some alternate takes of two or
three that they really wanted to feature.

I'd threatened to take some other speakers and an amp so I coudl a/b
between them but a helper talked me into keeping it simple and just
bringing the portable stereo. WHen I went to a decent control room
to do the edits I swore I'd never fight with headphones and trying to
rough it in that way again.

THat was one of those gigs that I took for the money and thought it
was going to be drudgery. THe ladies were a pleasure to work with and
everything went smooth. I worked harder getting the editing done at
the studio and preparing the tapes for transfer at the pressing plant,
including making safeties etc. THe ladies were relaxed and in a
familiar environment whic made things go better as well.





Richard Webb
Electric Spider Productions
REplace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real email

--