[TonyP]

I have read a lot about the DIY interconnects on various sites. There
are many different types of cables and connectors mentioned, along with
about how "great" they are. So, I decided to give it a try.
My question to those that are "in the know" is:

1. Cables, Mogami, Canare StarQuad, or Belden 89259 (which seems hard to
get).

2. Connectors: Canare F9, Eichman bullits, or generic.

Reasons for you choices would help a lot so I have a better idea of the
"whys".
Thanks

[Richard Crowley]

"TonyP" wrote ...
I have read a lot about the DIY interconnects on various sites. There are
many different types of cables and connectors mentioned, along with about
how "great" they are. So, I decided to give it a try.
My question to those that are "in the know" is:

1. Cables, Mogami, Canare StarQuad, or Belden 89259 (which seems hard to
get).

2. Connectors: Canare F9, Eichman bullits, or generic.

Reasons for you choices would help a lot so I have a better idea of the
"whys".

What is your definition of "interconnects"?
Is this for a home studio? a commercial studio? on the road?
Is this for semi-permanent wiring on the back of the equiment?,
Or something like a patch bay with frequent changes?
Can we assume that you are talking about RCA, unbalanced cables
(based on the type of connectors you mentioned)?
Why would you use 2-conductor (or 4-conductor) shielded
wire for RCA interconnects?
My preference would be whatever cable works best with the
selected connectors.
I would consider "premium" connectors only for heavy-duty
applications on the road, or frequent patch changes, etc. Else
seems like expen$ive overkill for no benefit.

The warnings about how "fragile" the Eichman connectors would
convince me to stay away from them. All downside and no benefit
from the looks of it.

[Laurence Payne]

On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 16:23:43 -0500, TonyP
wrote:

I have read a lot about the DIY interconnects on various sites. There
are many different types of cables and connectors mentioned, along with
about how "great" they are. So, I decided to give it a try.
My question to those that are "in the know" is:

1. Cables, Mogami, Canare StarQuad, or Belden 89259 (which seems hard to
get).

2. Connectors: Canare F9, Eichman bullits, or generic.

A connector needs to connect. A cable needs to conduct, and have
shielding where appropriate. Good enough is good enough. But the
term "interconnect" worries me. It's often used by believers in magic
:-)

[Mr.T]

"Laurence Payne" lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote in message
...
A connector needs to connect. A cable needs to conduct, and have
shielding where appropriate. Good enough is good enough.

Whilst I hate the "magic cable" attitude, I do believe there is a huge
difference in long term performance between the crappiest cables on the
market, and higher quality ones. The difference is as much mechanical as
electrical, but to be "good enough" often requires more than just some
conductivity and minimal shielding.
Fortunately it doesn't require large amounts of cash though, as some sellers
would have you believe.

MrT.

[Laurence Payne]

On Sat, 18 Nov 2006 16:23:57 +1100, "Mr.T" MrT@home wrote:

A connector needs to connect. A cable needs to conduct, and have
shielding where appropriate. Good enough is good enough.

Whilst I hate the "magic cable" attitude, I do believe there is a huge
difference in long term performance between the crappiest cables on the
market, and higher quality ones. The difference is as much mechanical as
electrical, but to be "good enough" often requires more than just some
conductivity and minimal shielding.
Fortunately it doesn't require large amounts of cash though, as some sellers
would have you believe.


I wonder if this is for a static rig or for location
recording/performance? In the latter case, mechanical durability is
indeed an issue.

Star-quad forced into platinum-plated RCA plugs for hi-fi line
connections is just silly though :-)

[Serge Auckland]

Laurence Payne wrote:
On Sat, 18 Nov 2006 16:23:57 +1100, "Mr.T" MrT@home wrote:

A connector needs to connect. A cable needs to conduct, and have
shielding where appropriate. Good enough is good enough.
Whilst I hate the "magic cable" attitude, I do believe there is a huge
difference in long term performance between the crappiest cables on the
market, and higher quality ones. The difference is as much mechanical as
electrical, but to be "good enough" often requires more than just some
conductivity and minimal shielding.
Fortunately it doesn't require large amounts of cash though, as some sellers
would have you believe.


I wonder if this is for a static rig or for location
recording/performance? In the latter case, mechanical durability is
indeed an issue.

Star-quad forced into platinum-plated RCA plugs for hi-fi line
connections is just silly though :-)

Absolutely! Star-quad only works for balanced connections, it doesn't do
anything over standard coax for unbalanced.

My own interconnects are mostly RG59 cable using any good quality phono
(RCA) plugs. Audio Technica used to make some very nice ones a few years
ago, and I use those and Neutrix. RG59 has the benefit of having low
capacitance, being well screened, reasonably flexible and being a 5 ohm
cable, will work equally well for analogue as for digital.

S.

[TonyP]

Richard Crowley wrote:
"TonyP" wrote ...

I have read a lot about the DIY interconnects on various sites. There are
many different types of cables and connectors mentioned, along with about
how "great" they are. So, I decided to give it a try.
My question to those that are "in the know" is:

1. Cables, Mogami, Canare StarQuad, or Belden 89259 (which seems hard to
get).

2. Connectors: Canare F9, Eichman bullits, or generic.

Reasons for you choices would help a lot so I have a better idea of the
"whys".


What is your definition of "interconnects"?
Is this for a home studio? a commercial studio? on the road?
Is this for semi-permanent wiring on the back of the equiment?,
Or something like a patch bay with frequent changes?
Can we assume that you are talking about RCA, unbalanced cables
(based on the type of connectors you mentioned)?
Why would you use 2-conductor (or 4-conductor) shielded
wire for RCA interconnects?
My preference would be whatever cable works best with the
selected connectors.
I would consider "premium" connectors only for heavy-duty
applications on the road, or frequent patch changes, etc. Else
seems like expen$ive overkill for no benefit.

The warnings about how "fragile" the Eichman connectors would
convince me to stay away from them. All downside and no benefit
from the looks of it.

I have read so much about DIY cables for home audio, I figured I would
give it a shot and listen for myself. The cost of the ones I listed are
certainly not budget busting by any stretch. These would be in my stereo
or HT system. RCA connections.
Just something to toy with on a cold winter evening.

[Richard Crowley]

"TonyP" wrote ...
I have read so much about DIY cables for home audio, I figured I would
give it a shot and listen for myself. The cost of the ones I listed
are certainly not budget busting by any stretch. These would be in my
stereo or HT system. RCA connections.
Just something to toy with on a cold winter evening.

I use RG-59 coax and the crimp-on RCA connectors made
for RG-59. The center pin is soldered, of course. Like this...
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=090-263

Be sure to use the RG-59 that has a stranded inner conductor,
and copper-braid shield without layers of foil, etc. My
favorite is Belden 9259 Good for audio as well as for
video, digital, and RF interconnects. Not as good for long
(100 ft or more) runs of RF, though.

With different colors of heat-shrink tubing, you can color-
code them in the usual manner. Satisfying to make, and a
fraction of the cost of equivalent commercial cables.

[Eeyore]

TonyP wrote:

I have read a lot about the DIY interconnects on various sites. There
are many different types of cables and connectors mentioned, along with
about how "great" they are. So, I decided to give it a try.
My question to those that are "in the know" is:

1. Cables, Mogami, Canare StarQuad, or Belden 89259 (which seems hard to
get).

2. Connectors: Canare F9, Eichman bullits, or generic.

Reasons for you choices would help a lot so I have a better idea of the
"whys".

Neither the *make* of the connector or the cable will make any difference.

Graham

[Eeyore]

"Mr.T" wrote:

"Laurence Payne" lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote in message

A connector needs to connect. A cable needs to conduct, and have
shielding where appropriate. Good enough is good enough.

Whilst I hate the "magic cable" attitude, I do believe there is a huge
difference in long term performance between the crappiest cables on the
market, and higher quality ones. The difference is as much mechanical as
electrical, but to be "good enough" often requires more than just some
conductivity and minimal shielding.
Fortunately it doesn't require large amounts of cash though, as some sellers
would have you believe.

You can get very nice RCA 'interconnects' on ebay for a few pounds each. They
use decent quality cable and connectors.

e.g.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HQ-Pro-Signal-...QQcmdZViewItem

Graham

[Geoff]

Mr.T wrote:
"Laurence Payne" lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote in message
...
A connector needs to connect. A cable needs to conduct, and have
shielding where appropriate. Good enough is good enough.

Whilst I hate the "magic cable" attitude, I do believe there is a huge
difference in long term performance between the crappiest cables on
the market, and higher quality ones. The difference is as much
mechanical as electrical, but to be "good enough" often requires more
than just some conductivity and minimal shielding.
Fortunately it doesn't require large amounts of cash though, as some
sellers would have you believe.

I'd say 90% is 'mechanical'.

geoff

[TonyP]

Thanks to all that replied. Like I said, it's for something to do on a
winter evening. The cost is nominal to say the least. Belden 89259 seems
to be real hard to get unless you want 1000ft of it. I also looked into
89207 with the same results. Any suggestions on cable would be greatly
appreciated.

[Geoff]

TonyP wrote:
Thanks to all that replied. Like I said, it's for something to do on a
winter evening. The cost is nominal to say the least. Belden 89259
seems to be real hard to get unless you want 1000ft of it. I also
looked into 89207 with the same results. Any suggestions on cable
would be greatly appreciated.

Just get normal good quality screened audio cable from your nearest
electronic supply store.

geoff

[Michael L. Squires]

In article ,
TonyP wrote:
Thanks to all that replied. Like I said, it's for something to do on a
winter evening. The cost is nominal to say the least. Belden 89259 seems
to be real hard to get unless you want 1000ft of it. I also looked into
89207 with the same results. Any suggestions on cable would be greatly
appreciated.


If there's an electronics surplus store in your area take a look. I
used very small diameter coax made for military (aircraft?) use which
measured 3 pf per foot, and had either silver or silver-plated braid and
center conductor. I paid a few pennies per foot.

For runs of a foot or so I doubt that it matters, unless the connectors
start corroding (most likely if the plug and jack are of different metals,
it makes no sense to use gold on one side and something else on the other).

Mike Squires

[Mr.T]

"Laurence Payne" lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote in message
...
I wonder if this is for a static rig or for location
recording/performance? In the latter case, mechanical durability is
indeed an issue.

Naturally a touring rig requires higher standards of mechanical durability,
and the consequenses of failure are much greater.

Star-quad forced into platinum-plated RCA plugs for hi-fi line
connections is just silly though :-)

Of course, but I'm often amazed at the huge difference in quality between
leads at even low cost. I bought a pack of RCA-RCA leads a short while ago
for $5 (made in China and on special admittedly) that were truly amazing
quality (metal plugs not moulded plastic, heavy core cable with braided
shields, and fully repairable if ever necessary) compared with the outright
junk provided with most audio devices, which most people are happy to use.
And I've certainly seen my share of faults with those, even in domestic
installations.

But when I see what some people spend for "quality interconnects", I just
smile :-)

MrT.

[Laurence Payne]

On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 16:29:26 +1100, "Mr.T" MrT@home wrote:

. I bought a pack of RCA-RCA leads a short while ago
for $5 (made in China and on special admittedly) that were truly amazing
quality (metal plugs not moulded plastic, heavy core cable with braided
shields, and fully repairable if ever necessary) compared with the outright
junk provided with most audio devices, which most people are happy to use.
And I've certainly seen my share of faults with those, even in domestic
installations.

But wouldn't you agree that, pending physical failure, the moulded
junk gets the signal through just as well as anything else? And, in a
static system, they generally don't fail?

[Eeyore]

TonyP wrote:

Thanks to all that replied. Like I said, it's for something to do on a
winter evening. The cost is nominal to say the least. Belden 89259 seems
to be real hard to get unless you want 1000ft of it. I also looked into
89207 with the same results. Any suggestions on cable would be greatly
appreciated.

The only things that matter are....

1. Screen/shield coverage. Some are a bit better than others.
2. Cable capacitance.
3. For practical reasons, flexibility.

Graham

[Eeyore]

Laurence Payne wrote:

On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 16:29:26 +1100, "Mr.T" MrT@home wrote:

. I bought a pack of RCA-RCA leads a short while ago
for $5 (made in China and on special admittedly) that were truly amazing
quality (metal plugs not moulded plastic, heavy core cable with braided
shields, and fully repairable if ever necessary) compared with the outright
junk provided with most audio devices, which most people are happy to use.
And I've certainly seen my share of faults with those, even in domestic
installations.

But wouldn't you agree that, pending physical failure, the moulded
junk gets the signal through just as well as anything else? And, in a
static system, they generally don't fail?

Quite so !

A connection is a connection is a connection.

Boring but true.

Graham

[Arny Krueger]

"Laurence Payne" lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote in
message

But wouldn't you agree that, pending physical failure,
the moulded junk gets the signal through just as well as
anything else?

Of course. Back in the days of mono and tubes, the standard for high quality
RCA cables was Switchcraft, and their cables had molded ends with stamped
contacts. In essence, what we call cheap junk today is similar or identical
to the industry standard of 50 years ago. Ironically pehaps, some of that
so-called cheap junk may still be in service.

And, in a static system, they generally don't fail?

Point well taken. Consumer audio systems tend to be very static.

[Geoff]

Eeyore wrote:
TonyP wrote:

Thanks to all that replied. Like I said, it's for something to do on
a winter evening. The cost is nominal to say the least. Belden 89259
seems to be real hard to get unless you want 1000ft of it. I also
looked into 89207 with the same results. Any suggestions on cable
would be greatly appreciated.

The only things that matter are....

1. Screen/shield coverage. Some are a bit better than others.
2. Cable capacitance.
3. For practical reasons, flexibility.

Screens do seem to have a variation mechanical strength. Co-ax and other
braided screens are not inherently better though - I've seen some pretty
crappy and/or sparse braiding.

geoff

[Mr.T]

"Laurence Payne" lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote in message
...
But wouldn't you agree that, pending physical failure, the moulded
junk gets the signal through just as well as anything else? And, in a
static system, they generally don't fail?

But is there such a thing as a static system? Even just cleaning around the
area can cause problems.
Just this morning I replaced a cheap lead on a computer system that had lost
one channel.

MrT.

[Mr.T]

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...

A connection is a connection is a connection.

And when it no longer connects properly it can be said to have failed.
Unsurprisingly 10 cent leads seem to fail more often. YMMV.

MrT.

[Mr.T]

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
Of course. Back in the days of mono and tubes, the standard for high
quality
RCA cables was Switchcraft, and their cables had molded ends with stamped
contacts. In essence, what we call cheap junk today is similar or
identical
to the industry standard of 50 years ago. Ironically pehaps, some of that
so-called cheap junk may still be in service.

I found many of those connectors went black and gave very poor connections
decades ago.
I'd be surprised if any are still in service myself.

MrT.

[Eeyore]

"Mr.T" wrote:

"Laurence Payne" lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote in message

But wouldn't you agree that, pending physical failure, the moulded
junk gets the signal through just as well as anything else? And, in a
static system, they generally don't fail?

But is there such a thing as a static system? Even just cleaning around the
area can cause problems.
Just this morning I replaced a cheap lead on a computer system that had lost
one channel.

A mini-jack no doubt.

They are *totally*unreliable. An RCA / Cinch / Phono connector isn't even half
as bad as that. I've left them in place for years on end with no trouble at all
( even the cheapies ).

Graham

[Eeyore]

"Mr.T" wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote in message

A connection is a connection is a connection.

And when it no longer connects properly it can be said to have failed.
Unsurprisingly 10 cent leads seem to fail more often. YMMV.

If it doesn't get a chance to corrode it should never fail.

Graham

[Mr.T]

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...
And when it no longer connects properly it can be said to have failed.
Unsurprisingly 10 cent leads seem to fail more often. YMMV.

If it doesn't get a chance to corrode it should never fail.

Shame that so many do then.

MrT.

[Mr.T]

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...
Just this morning I replaced a cheap lead on a computer system that had
lost
one channel.

A mini-jack no doubt.

Surprisingly not in this case. It was RCA-RCA. (M-Audio card)

They are *totally*unreliable. An RCA / Cinch / Phono connector isn't even
half
as bad as that. I've left them in place for years on end with no trouble
at all
( even the cheapies ).

Of course, they don't ALL fail.

MrT.

[Laurence Payne]

On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 15:12:10 +1100, "Mr.T" MrT@home wrote:


A connection is a connection is a connection.

And when it no longer connects properly it can be said to have failed.
Unsurprisingly 10 cent leads seem to fail more often. YMMV.

Yeah. But, in domestic use, not VERY often. And when they do, it's
only 10 cents to replace it.

You'll actually do your system more good by replacing cheap leads
every year than by leaving expensive ones in place. At least the
contacts will get a wipe.

[Laurence Payne]

On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 05:51:36 +0000, Eeyore
wrote:


They are *totally*unreliable. An RCA / Cinch / Phono connector isn't even half
as bad as that. I've left them in place for years on end with no trouble at all
( even the cheapies ).

Is this the kid-speak usage of "totally"? "Hey, dude, it was, like,
TOTALLY unreliable". :-)

[Eeyore]

"Mr.T" wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote in message

And when it no longer connects properly it can be said to have failed.
Unsurprisingly 10 cent leads seem to fail more often. YMMV.

If it doesn't get a chance to corrode it should never fail.

Shame that so many do then.

What kind of corrosion ?

This is where gold wins of course. Nothing to do with its conductivity.

Graham

[Eeyore]

Laurence Payne wrote:

Eeyore wrote:

They are *totally*unreliable. An RCA / Cinch / Phono connector isn't even half
as bad as that. I've left them in place for years on end with no trouble at all
( even the cheapies ).

Is this the kid-speak usage of "totally"? "Hey, dude, it was, like,
TOTALLY unreliable". :-)

LOL.

Well, they crackle when rotated or flexed and that's bad enough.

Graham

[Geoff]

Mr.T wrote:
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
Of course. Back in the days of mono and tubes, the standard for high
quality RCA cables was Switchcraft, and their cables had molded ends
with stamped contacts. In essence, what we call cheap junk today is
similar or identical to the industry standard of 50 years ago.
Ironically pehaps, some of that so-called cheap junk may still be in
service.

I found many of those connectors went black and gave very poor
connections decades ago.
I'd be surprised if any are still in service myself.


The black was probably on a silver contact, and is actually and excellent
conductor !

geoff

[Mr.T]

"Geoff" wrote in message
...
I found many of those connectors went black and gave very poor
connections decades ago.
I'd be surprised if any are still in service myself.

The black was probably on a silver contact, and is actually and excellent
conductor !

I was expecting someone to suggest that, although I imagine it was caused by
other impurities entirely. Unlike much more expensive RF connectors, silver
content was probably not significant, if any, and the connectors did give
poor contact unfortunately. A regular clean or rotation was necessary IME.

MrT.