Don't know what God, or the producers were thinking, but what the story on
the little end guitar ditty on this song ?

It sounds like a recorder and some guitars given to a bunch of 11-year-olds.
It embarasses me to hear it.

geoff

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 23:07:31 +1300, "Geoff Wood"
wrote:

Don't know what God, or the producers were thinking, but what the story on
the little end guitar ditty on this song ?

It sounds like a recorder and some guitars given to a bunch of 11-year-olds.
It embarasses me to hear it.

geoff


Not only for Layla but for the entire album, I've always been thinking
that everyone must have been quite drunk at recording sessions. If I'm
forgiving, it's quite sympatic. But if I am not...

Edi Zubovic, Crikvenica, Croatia

"Geoff Wood" wrote in message
...
Don't know what God, or the producers were thinking, but what the story on
the little end guitar ditty on this song ?

It sounds like a recorder and some guitars given to a bunch of
11-year-olds.
It embarasses me to hear it.

That's Duane Allman on the slide.
A little out in spots, eh? GGG

Poly

[Fletcher]

Originally Posted by Geoff Wood

Don't know what God, or the producers were thinking, but what the story on
the little end guitar ditty on this song ?

It sounds like a recorder and some guitars given to a bunch of 11-year-olds.
It embarasses me to hear it.

geoff

Embarasses you? I have always found it to be a great example of what rock and roll really is... a good middle finger in the air expression of the moment... then again Steely Dan records make me ill so what do I know...

"Geoff Wood" wrote in message
...
Don't know what God, or the producers were thinking, but what the story on
the little end guitar ditty on this song ?

It sounds like a recorder and some guitars given to a bunch of
11-year-olds. It embarasses me to hear it.

I've always thought the same thing. The piano part is nice but I think part
of my dislike of Duane (that took a long time to get over) was directly
related to this ending. It's horrid. The ending was tagged on weeks later.
See the movie "Tom Dowd & the Language of Music" (a _fantastic_ doc BTW) for
more including him pulling up each part track by track. Luckily it cuts off
before the real ugliness starts.

A little too much heroin on the date I think!!
kevin

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 13:45:15 +0100, Edi Zubovic edi.zubovic[rem
wrote:

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 23:07:31 +1300, "Geoff Wood"
wrote:

Don't know what God, or the producers were thinking, but what the story on
the little end guitar ditty on this song ?

It sounds like a recorder and some guitars given to a bunch of 11-year-olds.
It embarasses me to hear it.

geoff


Not only for Layla but for the entire album, I've always been thinking
that everyone must have been quite drunk at recording sessions.

Well, they weren't drunk, they were on heroin. But there is still
some great music on there IMO... sorry if you can't hear that.

Al

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 15:41:24 +0000, Fletcher
wrote:


Geoff Wood Wrote:
Don't know what God, or the producers were thinking, but what the story
on
the little end guitar ditty on this song ?

It sounds like a recorder and some guitars given to a bunch of
11-year-olds.
It embarasses me to hear it.

geoff

Embarasses you? I have always found it to be a great example of what
rock and roll really is... a good middle finger in the air expression
of the moment... then again Steely Dan records make me ill so what do I
know...

I just watched a DVD, (one of those VH-1 "Classic Album" series) about
the making of Steely Dan's Aja. What a cold vibe those two dudes
have. I like the classic album series though, I watched another one
about the making of The Band's 1st and 2nd albums, Music From Big
Pink, etc. What a contrast...

Al

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 19:52:11 GMT, "Ricky Hunt"
wrote:

"Geoff Wood" wrote in message
...
Don't know what God, or the producers were thinking, but what the story on
the little end guitar ditty on this song ?

It sounds like a recorder and some guitars given to a bunch of
11-year-olds. It embarasses me to hear it.

I've always thought the same thing. The piano part is nice but I think part
of my dislike of Duane (that took a long time to get over) was directly
related to this ending. It's horrid. The ending was tagged on weeks later.
See the movie "Tom Dowd & the Language of Music" (a _fantastic_ doc BTW) for
more including him pulling up each part track by track. Luckily it cuts off
before the real ugliness starts.

The piano coda was actually taken from an line Duane played on the
slide... he contributed quite a bit on that LP, in spite of the
occasional out-of-tuneness.

Al

Geoff Wood wrote:

Don't know what God, or the producers were thinking, but what the story on
the little end guitar ditty on this song ?

It sounds like a recorder and some guitars given to a bunch of 11-year-olds.
It embarasses me to hear it.


It's one of my favorite pieces of music on my favorite album ever. That
said, I didn't like the remix from the 1988 box set, although I knew the
guy who did it, and he was a very nice guy.

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 13:07:43 -0800, play on
wrote:

------------------------------------------
Not only for Layla but for the entire album, I've always been thinking
that everyone must have been quite drunk at recording sessions.

Well, they weren't drunk, they were on heroin. But there is still
some great music on there IMO... sorry if you can't hear that.

Al

Oh, I didn't mean _that_. Layla is indeed one of my all-time
favorites. Just it could have been technically better I think.
But sure, those flaws -- if I may call them so -- are today pieces of
the picture of that legendary album, yes. I think if it would be
possible to correct them by "remastering", I'd opt to leave them as
they are, if nothing than for the sake of the truth.

But I don't like working drunk and I hate heroin and btw I don't like
drugs -- no need for well do you see _that_ subtle difference I wrote
heh g?

Edi Zubovic, Crikvenica, Croatia

Even if it was tacked on later (and it does sound like it), I like it.
It reminds me of little singing birdies, which I like. Sometimes
things are just that simple. I read something once comparing the
analysis of music to pulling the wings off a butterfly to see what
makes it tick. As much as I like analyzing music, let's not forget the
butterflies.

Mikey Wozniak
Nova Music Productions
this sig is haiku

Watch the Tom Dowd DVD and learn. He actually sits at the console and
brings up the faders. He doesn't explain what you hear, but if you can't
get the idea from the man, then you'll just spend some more years learning.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/

"Geoff Wood" wrote in message
...
Don't know what God, or the producers were thinking, but what the story on
the little end guitar ditty on this song ?

It sounds like a recorder and some guitars given to a bunch of
11-year-olds.
It embarasses me to hear it.

geoff

Bull****. Watch the Tom Dowd DVD. The musicians don't do the fades, play
on. You know that.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/

"play on" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 13:45:15 +0100, Edi Zubovic edi.zubovic[rem
wrote:

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 23:07:31 +1300, "Geoff Wood"
wrote:

Don't know what God, or the producers were thinking, but what the story
on
the little end guitar ditty on this song ?

It sounds like a recorder and some guitars given to a bunch of
11-year-olds.
It embarasses me to hear it.

geoff


Not only for Layla but for the entire album, I've always been thinking
that everyone must have been quite drunk at recording sessions.

Well, they weren't drunk, they were on heroin. But there is still
some great music on there IMO... sorry if you can't hear that.

Al

None of the album was tacked on later. All done live, in the studio with
Tom Dowd engineering and his mixing after the project was done.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/

"Ricky Hunt" wrote in message
news:LXlZd.67982$Ze3.16108@attbi_s51...
"Geoff Wood" wrote in message
...
Don't know what God, or the producers were thinking, but what the story
on
the little end guitar ditty on this song ?

It sounds like a recorder and some guitars given to a bunch of
11-year-olds. It embarasses me to hear it.

I've always thought the same thing. The piano part is nice but I think
part
of my dislike of Duane (that took a long time to get over) was directly
related to this ending. It's horrid. The ending was tagged on weeks later.
See the movie "Tom Dowd & the Language of Music" (a _fantastic_ doc BTW)
for
more including him pulling up each part track by track. Luckily it cuts
off
before the real ugliness starts.

"Roger W. Norman" wrote:

Watch the Tom Dowd DVD and learn. He actually sits at the console and
brings up the faders. He doesn't explain what you hear, but if you can't
get the idea from the man, then you'll just spend some more years learning.


I love that movie! I could watch it a gaziliion times.

Huh??? 'scuse you? I didn't say anything about the fade. I said that
the piano coda, that melody was orignally created by something that
Duane Allman played, ie he wrote that part, although it ended up being
played on piano by someone else, it was originally Duane's idea. I
heard this from people who would know.

Al

"novamusic" wrote in message
oups.com...

Even if it was tacked on later (and it does sound like it), I like it.
It reminds me of little singing birdies, which I like.


Those birdies were well and truly out of their trees, I suspect. But so
must have been teh producer to let it on the master. Just the piano would
have been fine.

geoff

Tom played the tape and showed the fade, as far as I remember. You take it
from there. I don't know who should know more than the engineer that
recorded and mixed the album so I will take Tom Dowd at face value.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/

"play on" wrote in message
ups.com...
Huh??? 'scuse you? I didn't say anything about the fade. I said that
the piano coda, that melody was orignally created by something that
Duane Allman played, ie he wrote that part, although it ended up being
played on piano by someone else, it was originally Duane's idea. I
heard this from people who would know.

Al

Indeed it is an eye opener. From the hands and ears of a master.

Sometimes I worry about dying because I have my grandchildren and children,
not to mention my wife to worry about. But the fact is if I done a good job
in all the different aspects of what I've worked at in my life, that makes
things much easier. Tom Dowd obviously loved what he was doing. He wasn't
just an engineer, he was a participant. He made things work. He worked
hard. He loved what he was doing. These last three sentences would be nice
to see on my headstone and my family will have to deal with it. Love in
life usually comes around a number of times. One can love a number of women
for what they are, one can love their children as they change and grow, and
one can even love their life-long friends. But one's true love is what they
do and who they are. That's a type of love that transcends all timelines
and personal involvements.

Tom Dowd expressed this every day of his life. Excellence comes from the
the expression. Tom Dowd and excellence are the same thing.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/

"Don Cooper" wrote in message
...


"Roger W. Norman" wrote:

Watch the Tom Dowd DVD and learn. He actually sits at the console and
brings up the faders. He doesn't explain what you hear, but if you
can't
get the idea from the man, then you'll just spend some more years
learning.


I love that movie! I could watch it a gaziliion times.

play on wrote:

Huh??? 'scuse you? I didn't say anything about the fade. I said that
the piano coda, that melody was orignally created by something that
Duane Allman played, ie he wrote that part, although it ended up being
played on piano by someone else, it was originally Duane's idea. I
heard this from people who would know.

Al

Odd. The story I've read a few places (Mojo, Rolling Stone) is that
Jim Gordon wrote the outro on piano. IIRC, he was saving it for his
solo album, but Eric talked him into including it in "Layla".
And the writing credit on my LP copy is Eric Clapton/Jim Gordon.

Again IIRC Duane came up with "the riff". The lazy unplugged version
of "Layla" Clapton recorded much later was more his original idea.

This place claims roughly the same things, quoting Bobby Whitlock.
http://www.songfacts.com/detail.lasso?id=785

But none of this makes Duane's playing in the outro any more
in tune: but I'll settle for great playing out of tune....

Henry Salvia.

Thanks for the reference. The stories might not be the same, but then
again, it is some decades later.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/

"Henry Salvia" wrote in message
...
play on wrote:

Huh??? 'scuse you? I didn't say anything about the fade. I said that
the piano coda, that melody was orignally created by something that
Duane Allman played, ie he wrote that part, although it ended up being
played on piano by someone else, it was originally Duane's idea. I
heard this from people who would know.

Al

Odd. The story I've read a few places (Mojo, Rolling Stone) is that
Jim Gordon wrote the outro on piano. IIRC, he was saving it for his
solo album, but Eric talked him into including it in "Layla".
And the writing credit on my LP copy is Eric Clapton/Jim Gordon.

Again IIRC Duane came up with "the riff". The lazy unplugged version
of "Layla" Clapton recorded much later was more his original idea.

This place claims roughly the same things, quoting Bobby Whitlock.
http://www.songfacts.com/detail.lasso?id=785

But none of this makes Duane's playing in the outro any more
in tune: but I'll settle for great playing out of tune....

Henry Salvia.

Henry Salvia wrote:

Odd. The story I've read a few places (Mojo, Rolling Stone) is that
Jim Gordon wrote the outro on piano. IIRC, he was saving it for his
solo album, but Eric talked him into including it in "Layla".
And the writing credit on my LP copy is Eric Clapton/Jim Gordon.

Right, but there's even more to this story. Gordon performed with Rita
Coolidge (Delaney and Bonnie and Friends) previous to these sessions.
She claims to have written the piano piece and that Gordon stole it from
her. I read this in Rolling Stone some years ago in a Coolidge
interview. I always believed she was telling the truth, but impossible
to say for sure.

Also... the Layla sessions were fantastic, and I even like the Dominoes
live album. Some of us could choose to get all PC about the use of
heroin, but it served its purpose. A lot of great music has been made on
junk. Like it or not.

-Naren

Gordon wrote it, I just heard that the inspiration for some the melody
came from something he heard Duane play at some point in the sessions
(not neccessarily what he was playing on the outro). I heard this from
some of the members of Bonnie Bramlett's band when I was playing guitar
for her.

I guess Gordon still gets lots of royalties from it, although he can't
really spend them since he's in the asylum...

Al

"Roger W. Norman" wrote in message
...
None of the album was tacked on later. All done live, in the studio with
Tom Dowd engineering and his mixing after the project was done.

Actually it was. I believe Tom said the end section (where the piano starts)
was recording two weeks after the first section.

Mikey likes it, and so do I! He wrote:

Even if it was tacked on later (and it does sound like it), I like
it.
It reminds me of little singing birdies, which I like.

To me it sounds more like the screaming of angels as they have their
wings ripped off, which is pretty much the theme of the song. I think
this is one of the best examples of "incorrect" being way better than
if it had been mechanically perfect. Screams are not meant to be
perfectly in tune or in time.
The first time I heard Layla I was 16 and driving home from work
around midnight. The song was so overwhelmingly powerful that I
couldn't even drive. I had to pull over to the side of the road, turn
the engine off, crank up the radio and just listen in awe. By the end
I was practically comatose.
As amazing as the first half was, the second half was almost even
better in it's elegance and majesty. That turn-around chord gets my
vote as the single most amazing chord in the history of rock and roll.
I figured it out on piano once, but now I've lost it. Doesn't really
work on guitar. It's a voicing/passing-notes type of thing.
I genuinely feel sorry for anyone who can't appreciate that song
for whatever reason.
My sympathies, Rick Novak.

eric clapton stealing george harrison's wife

Embarasses you? I have always found it to be a great example of what
rock and roll really is... a good middle finger in the air expression
of the moment...

I think this is one of the best examples of "incorrect" being way
better than
if it had been mechanically perfect...........
I genuinely feel sorry for anyone who can't appreciate that .....

amen, it is the essence of how they were expressing the angst
"you know it's just your foolish pride"
then the last song.......
it fits....

dale

Edi Zubovic edi.zubovic[rem wrote:

Not only for Layla but for the entire album, I've always been thinking
that everyone must have been quite drunk at recording sessions. If I'm
forgiving, it's quite sympatic. But if I am not...

My ex's husband attributes the quality of the album to the musicians being
on "every drug known to science in the 1970s." He cited the more recent
acoustic version of Layla as being what happens when the drugs are removed.

When he said this, I hadn't heard it, but I have since heard the acoustic
version, and to be honest I like it more at the slower tempo and with the
simpler arrangement.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

The ending to Layla was tacked on!
Tom
"Roger W. Norman" wrote in message
...
None of the album was tacked on later. All done live, in the studio with
Tom Dowd engineering and his mixing after the project was done.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/

"Ricky Hunt" wrote in message
news:LXlZd.67982$Ze3.16108@attbi_s51...
"Geoff Wood" wrote in message
...
Don't know what God, or the producers were thinking, but what the
story
on
the little end guitar ditty on this song ?

It sounds like a recorder and some guitars given to a bunch of
11-year-olds. It embarasses me to hear it.

I've always thought the same thing. The piano part is nice but I think
part
of my dislike of Duane (that took a long time to get over) was directly
related to this ending. It's horrid. The ending was tagged on weeks
later.
See the movie "Tom Dowd & the Language of Music" (a _fantastic_ doc BTW)
for
more including him pulling up each part track by track. Luckily it cuts
off
before the real ugliness starts.

It's funny, but WHEN pulling off the road to listen to a song happens,
there's no cop in the world that will accept that explanation. I mean,
we've all heard about it happening or it's happened to us, but how do you
tell a cop you're listening to some music that's so powerful you can't
drive?

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/

"rickymix" wrote in message
oups.com...
Mikey likes it, and so do I! He wrote:

Even if it was tacked on later (and it does sound like it), I like
it.
It reminds me of little singing birdies, which I like.

To me it sounds more like the screaming of angels as they have their
wings ripped off, which is pretty much the theme of the song. I think
this is one of the best examples of "incorrect" being way better than
if it had been mechanically perfect. Screams are not meant to be
perfectly in tune or in time.
The first time I heard Layla I was 16 and driving home from work
around midnight. The song was so overwhelmingly powerful that I
couldn't even drive. I had to pull over to the side of the road, turn
the engine off, crank up the radio and just listen in awe. By the end
I was practically comatose.
As amazing as the first half was, the second half was almost even
better in it's elegance and majesty. That turn-around chord gets my
vote as the single most amazing chord in the history of rock and roll.
I figured it out on piano once, but now I've lost it. Doesn't really
work on guitar. It's a voicing/passing-notes type of thing.
I genuinely feel sorry for anyone who can't appreciate that song
for whatever reason.
My sympathies, Rick Novak.

That's what happens when you buy adjoining townhouses in Old Town
Alexandria. "Hey, I went to the wrong house and, well, frankly George, Eric
was just out of the shower and things went from there."

The good thing is that in didn't totally kill Eric and George's
relationship, although it put a crimp in it for a few years. I think it's
kinda funny that guys seem to be able to get over women problems between
them and women seem to want to kill. My best friend's wife is my old high
school sweetheart. Never had an effect on our relationship.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/

"dale" wrote in message
ups.com...
eric clapton stealing george harrison's wife

Embarasses you? I have always found it to be a great example of what
rock and roll really is... a good middle finger in the air expression
of the moment...

I think this is one of the best examples of "incorrect" being way
better than
if it had been mechanically perfect...........
I genuinely feel sorry for anyone who can't appreciate that .....

amen, it is the essence of how they were expressing the angst
"you know it's just your foolish pride"
then the last song.......
it fits....

dale

I shall repeat this story, so those of you who have read it may skip it. ;-)
I have had the chance to play with the muti track of Layla, which was quite
the deja vu, when I watched the Tom Dowd disk. Pitch and rock and roll,
there's a non sequitor.
Listen to the "greatest rock & roll song" ever recorded
"Like a Rolling Stone". Not my pick, but hey.
Listen to the Bob's guitar part, and try to figure out what planet he tuned
his guitar on.
Guess that didn't matter too much, did it?
Duane Allman was a brilliant guitar player,and I don't care if he was "out
of tune". The most amazing playing was at the end of Layla, that no one
heard, but I did!
That recording sounded great when it was made!
Karl Richardson eng. the whole record, and he's no slouch by the way. If you
don't know who he is, google him.
Oh yeah, for the trivia addicts in all of us, the mortorcycle helmet that
Eric's wearing in a pic,
on the Layla "album jacket", was Karl's too.
The "talk box" he used on "461" was a big Altec or JBL horn driver, that
Seth Snyder, "built".
That made your teeth vibrate quite a bit, to say the least.
I'm done,
Tom






"Fletcher" wrote in message
...

Geoff Wood Wrote:
Don't know what God, or the producers were thinking, but what the story
on
the little end guitar ditty on this song ?

It sounds like a recorder and some guitars given to a bunch of
11-year-olds.
It embarasses me to hear it.

geoff

Embarasses you? I have always found it to be a great example of what
rock and roll really is... a good middle finger in the air expression
of the moment... then again Steely Dan records make me ill so what do I
know...


--
Fletcher

Geoff Wood wrote:
Don't know what God, or the producers were thinking, but what the
story on
the little end guitar ditty on this song ?

It sounds like a recorder and some guitars given to a bunch of
11-year-olds.
It embarasses me to hear it.

geoff

Drugs are mentioned quite a bit in this thread. Some years back I set
off on a project to examine the connection between drugs and music,
going way back in history, up to modern times. I even scored a few
candid interviews with noted musicians. But I just plain soured on the
project. For whatever perceived plus there was to the drug/music link,
the minuses were just appalling. I didn't want to write a book
glorifying it. It is such a shame, a lot of good music was created with
drug influence (and a lot of crap, too), but at what a price. Thank God
most of these people finally outgrew it.

Scott Dorsey wrote:


When he said this, I hadn't heard it, but I have since heard the acoustic
version, and to be honest I like it more at the slower tempo and with the
simpler arrangement.

I can't help but disagree. This acoustic version, like many "unplugged"
songs would be totally useless without having followed the original. It
is one of those things, when you hear it, the mind fills in the blanks
because you know how it is *suppose* to sound.

I find this with very low fidelity and/or low volume as well. You hear a
song at the grocery store and it has a much larger impact than otherwise
would be the case, because the image of (the normally) soaring guitar
leads and thundering drums is conjured up in your brain as you hear it.

I think it's more like "what happens when people get old". Drugs or
not, people generally rock harder when they are younger. What I didn't
like about the unplugged version was the shuffle feel, but then I guess
they had to do something different to it.

Al

I think Eric sings much better now, than he did 30 years ago.

Tom


"play on" wrote in message
oups.com...
I think it's more like "what happens when people get old". Drugs or
not, people generally rock harder when they are younger. What I didn't
like about the unplugged version was the shuffle feel, but then I guess
they had to do something different to it.

Al

The story that I read (several times over the years) was that Jim Gordon was
using the studio's down time (that is, when the dominos weren't there) to
work on his own record without paying studio time. The piano part at the end
of Layla was part of that project. When the band found out about it, that
particular piece was hijacked into the Dominos record...

--
Dave Martin
Java Jive Studio
Nashville, TN
www.javajivestudio.com


"Ricky Hunt" wrote in message
news:1jwZd.68924$r55.63957@attbi_s52...
"Roger W. Norman" wrote in message
...
None of the album was tacked on later. All done live, in the studio
with
Tom Dowd engineering and his mixing after the project was done.

Actually it was. I believe Tom said the end section (where the piano
starts)
was recording two weeks after the first section.

Layla seems to be one of those record. People either consider it the
greatest musical statement ever made or they don't care for it. For me
(who cares, right?) I always felt the record has way too many guitar
tracks and too many simultaneous notes going on at once in general.

blu (frankie?) wrote:
...the record has way too many guitar
tracks and too many simultaneous notes going on at once in general."

Which is why I love it. Reminds me of the inside of my head! :)

Layla seems to be one of those records. People either consider it the

greatest musical statement ever made or they don't care for it.

You're absolutey right about that. I understand why it bothers people,
but it works for me. The chaos supports the theme.
Cheers, Rick.

On 16 Mar 2005 11:13:05 -0800, wrote:

Layla seems to be one of those record. People either consider it the
greatest musical statement ever made or they don't care for it. For me
(who cares, right?) I always felt the record has way too many guitar
tracks and too many simultaneous notes going on at once in general.

That's a fair criticsm but the songs hold up, and the arrangments,
while guitar heavy, do work pretty well.

Al