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#1
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tricks for fattening vocals ?
With many commercial songs, I hear this kind of effect that sounds like
vocals are doubled (often on choruses). I've been wondering how it is done... it is somekind of effect ? Or is that a mixing trick with the vocals doubled ? We've been trying to double vocals often on several songs, but no matter how close the two takes are, it doesn't sound good, two takes at the same time sound like it is phasing. Even panned, two takes sound still strange... That far, I only got good sounding backings when they are on a different pitch than the main. What tricks are you guys using to fatten vocals on choruses ???? Erik -- www.ens-music.com |
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#2
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"Erik Putrycz" wrote in message ... With many commercial songs, I hear this kind of effect that sounds like vocals are doubled (often on choruses). I've been wondering how it is done... it is somekind of effect ? Or is that a mixing trick with the vocals doubled ? We've been trying to double vocals often on several songs, but no matter how close the two takes are, it doesn't sound good, two takes at the same time sound like it is phasing. Even panned, two takes sound still strange... That far, I only got good sounding backings when they are on a different pitch than the main. What tricks are you guys using to fatten vocals on choruses ???? Erik -- www.ens-music.com --------------------------- Triple them, quadruple them, eq them differently, compress them, chorus them, slap delay them, delay some, pan them around, work at it a lot. Do a mix or two on headphones. -bg- -- www.thelittlecanadaheadphoneband.ca -- www.thelittlecanadaheadphoneband.ca |
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#3
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"Erik Putrycz" wrote in message ... With many commercial songs, I hear this kind of effect that sounds like vocals are doubled (often on choruses). I've been wondering how it is done... it is somekind of effect ? Or is that a mixing trick with the vocals doubled ? We've been trying to double vocals often on several songs, but no matter how close the two takes are, it doesn't sound good, two takes at the same time sound like it is phasing. Even panned, two takes sound still strange... That far, I only got good sounding backings when they are on a different pitch than the main. What tricks are you guys using to fatten vocals on choruses ???? Erik -- www.ens-music.com --------------------------- Triple them, quadruple them, eq them differently, compress them, chorus them, slap delay them, delay some, pan them around, work at it a lot. Do a mix or two on headphones. -bg- -- www.thelittlecanadaheadphoneband.ca -- www.thelittlecanadaheadphoneband.ca |
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#4
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"Erik Putrycz" wrote in message
... With many commercial songs, I hear this kind of effect that sounds like vocals are doubled (often on choruses). I've been wondering how it is done... it is somekind of effect ? Or is that a mixing trick with the vocals doubled ? What type of music? Any song in particular you hear this on? |
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#5
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"Erik Putrycz" wrote in message
... With many commercial songs, I hear this kind of effect that sounds like vocals are doubled (often on choruses). I've been wondering how it is done... it is somekind of effect ? Or is that a mixing trick with the vocals doubled ? What type of music? Any song in particular you hear this on? |
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#6
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Lots of carbs.
--------------------------------------- "I know enough to know I don't know enough" |
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#7
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Lots of carbs.
--------------------------------------- "I know enough to know I don't know enough" |
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#8
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On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 12:06:57 -0400, Erik Putrycz wrote:
With many commercial songs, I hear this kind of effect that sounds like vocals are doubled (often on choruses). I've been wondering how it is done... it is somekind of effect ? Or is that a mixing trick with the vocals doubled ? We've been trying to double vocals often on several songs, but no matter how close the two takes are, it doesn't sound good, two takes at the same time sound like it is phasing. Even panned, two takes sound still strange... That far, I only got good sounding backings when they are on a different pitch than the main. What tricks are you guys using to fatten vocals on choruses ???? Erik Some peoples voices just don't double well. Other than that... Mixdown of the whole track Speed it up a semitone (Not pitch shift!) Get the singer to double track to the speeded up version. Slow down the singer's new take to the original speed. Now, all the formants of the double track voice will be shifted, and it won't sound so phasy. You can try slowing or speeding up the track different amounts depending on whether you want higher or lower formants. |
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#9
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On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 12:06:57 -0400, Erik Putrycz wrote:
With many commercial songs, I hear this kind of effect that sounds like vocals are doubled (often on choruses). I've been wondering how it is done... it is somekind of effect ? Or is that a mixing trick with the vocals doubled ? We've been trying to double vocals often on several songs, but no matter how close the two takes are, it doesn't sound good, two takes at the same time sound like it is phasing. Even panned, two takes sound still strange... That far, I only got good sounding backings when they are on a different pitch than the main. What tricks are you guys using to fatten vocals on choruses ???? Erik Some peoples voices just don't double well. Other than that... Mixdown of the whole track Speed it up a semitone (Not pitch shift!) Get the singer to double track to the speeded up version. Slow down the singer's new take to the original speed. Now, all the formants of the double track voice will be shifted, and it won't sound so phasy. You can try slowing or speeding up the track different amounts depending on whether you want higher or lower formants. |
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#10
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"Erik Putrycz" wrote in message
... With many commercial songs, I hear this kind of effect that sounds like vocals are doubled (often on choruses). I've been wondering how it is done... The vocals are doubled. it is somekind of effect ? Yes, it's an effect known as "doubling". Or is that a mixing trick with the vocals doubled ? It's both a recording 'trick', and a mixing 'trick'... it's two tricks in one! We've been trying to double vocals often on several songs, but no matter how close the two takes are, it doesn't sound good, Both takes have to sounds relatively good in their own right for this to work... do they? two takes at the same time sound like it is phasing. Are you running both of the doubled tracks at the same level or damn close to it? If so,STOP THAT! Use the main take as.. well, the main take; and then run the second or doubled track down much lower... like anywhere from 7 to 15 dB lower, perhaps. Even panned, two takes sound still strange... That's because it's rare that the same person can appear on both sides of your head simultaneously - maybe in some bizarro universe if you had the normal Superman standing at your right & Bizarro Superman standing on your left and both were singing the same song in unison it could happen, but then again recording only resembles comic books in Mixerman's BitchSlap diaries. That far, I only got good sounding backings when they are on a different pitch than the main. What tricks are you guys using to fatten vocals on choruses ???? Doubling. Hextupling. Perhaps a VERY subtle chorus effect (Did I mention "subtle"? Remember, we're not in the 80's anymore). A very, very, very, small room 'verb. A very, very, very slight slapback. One track non-Autotuned, and another, cloned/identical track using Autotune, lined up a few milliseconds behind the original (make sure it's set so that you can hear the artifacts, the drop the level on that track & blend to taste). Sound Forge's Acoustic Mirror, using the original vocal waveform as the impulse, set to like a 1/8th or 1/16th note timing in milliseconds, then bring the resultant waveform back into your project, but at a *much* lower level (this method's kinda cool, actually... you get that ethereal thing going that I can only describe as "not quite a reverb"). Whisper tracks (killer). Also, clone the track & drive the **** out of it using an external box or a soft-overdrive (t0oB) plugin, then using that to blend with the original... again the keyword here would be "subtle". Or any combination of the above. There's others, to be sure, but those are the most common things I use. All depends on what you're going for in a given piece - they aren't exactly interchangeable. -- Neil Henderson Saqqara Records http://www.saqqararecords.com |
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#11
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"Erik Putrycz" wrote in message
... With many commercial songs, I hear this kind of effect that sounds like vocals are doubled (often on choruses). I've been wondering how it is done... The vocals are doubled. it is somekind of effect ? Yes, it's an effect known as "doubling". Or is that a mixing trick with the vocals doubled ? It's both a recording 'trick', and a mixing 'trick'... it's two tricks in one! We've been trying to double vocals often on several songs, but no matter how close the two takes are, it doesn't sound good, Both takes have to sounds relatively good in their own right for this to work... do they? two takes at the same time sound like it is phasing. Are you running both of the doubled tracks at the same level or damn close to it? If so,STOP THAT! Use the main take as.. well, the main take; and then run the second or doubled track down much lower... like anywhere from 7 to 15 dB lower, perhaps. Even panned, two takes sound still strange... That's because it's rare that the same person can appear on both sides of your head simultaneously - maybe in some bizarro universe if you had the normal Superman standing at your right & Bizarro Superman standing on your left and both were singing the same song in unison it could happen, but then again recording only resembles comic books in Mixerman's BitchSlap diaries. That far, I only got good sounding backings when they are on a different pitch than the main. What tricks are you guys using to fatten vocals on choruses ???? Doubling. Hextupling. Perhaps a VERY subtle chorus effect (Did I mention "subtle"? Remember, we're not in the 80's anymore). A very, very, very, small room 'verb. A very, very, very slight slapback. One track non-Autotuned, and another, cloned/identical track using Autotune, lined up a few milliseconds behind the original (make sure it's set so that you can hear the artifacts, the drop the level on that track & blend to taste). Sound Forge's Acoustic Mirror, using the original vocal waveform as the impulse, set to like a 1/8th or 1/16th note timing in milliseconds, then bring the resultant waveform back into your project, but at a *much* lower level (this method's kinda cool, actually... you get that ethereal thing going that I can only describe as "not quite a reverb"). Whisper tracks (killer). Also, clone the track & drive the **** out of it using an external box or a soft-overdrive (t0oB) plugin, then using that to blend with the original... again the keyword here would be "subtle". Or any combination of the above. There's others, to be sure, but those are the most common things I use. All depends on what you're going for in a given piece - they aren't exactly interchangeable. -- Neil Henderson Saqqara Records http://www.saqqararecords.com |
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#12
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#13
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#14
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"Erik" wrote in message
. .. Neil, Thanks alot for your suggestions!!!!! OSPAM wrote: "Erik Putrycz" wrote in message ... We've been trying to double vocals often on several songs, but no matter how close the two takes are, it doesn't sound good, Both takes have to sounds relatively good in their own right for this to work... do they? Yes that is usually the case. two takes at the same time sound like it is phasing. Are you running both of the doubled tracks at the same level or damn close to it? If so,STOP THAT! Use the main take as.. well, the main take; and then run the second or doubled track down much lower... like anywhere from 7 to 15 dB lower, perhaps. That thing is just not working for my project. Her voice does phase no matter how low the second take is. That far, I only got good sounding backings when they are on a different pitch than the main. What tricks are you guys using to fatten vocals on choruses ???? Doubling. Hextupling. Perhaps a VERY subtle chorus effect (Did I mention "subtle"? Remember, we're not in the 80's anymore). A very, very, very, small room 'verb. A very, very, very slight slapback. One track non-Autotuned, and another, cloned/identical track using Autotune, lined up a few milliseconds behind the original (make sure it's set so that you can hear the artifacts, the drop the level on that track & blend to taste). Oh I tried this one without the sliding the autotuned take... I'll give it a try!!! Sound Forge's Acoustic Mirror, using the original vocal waveform as the impulse, set to like a 1/8th or 1/16th note timing in milliseconds, then bring the resultant waveform back into your project, but at a *much* lower level (this method's kinda cool, actually... you get that ethereal thing going that I can only describe as "not quite a reverb"). That sounds very cool. I'll try that too. Whisper tracks (killer). How do you blend the whisper tracks ? I tried this one too but I couldn't find any way to get them blended no matter what level or panning I tried. Do you have any example I could listen where you did that ? Yes, I do, in fact... here's an example: http://www.saqqararecords.com/images...y%20Spaces%20C lip.mp3 The part where he sings "I've got to scare myself and run...." through: "... and fill those Empty Spaces." (ignoring the obvious harsh doubling of just the "Empty Spaces" bit) is doubled with a whisper track. You should be able to pick this up fairly easily now that it's been pointed out. In this case, it was a slightly more aggressive whisper, but it certainly serves to thicken things up. BTW, the verse - where he's virtually screaming just before that part - is an example of the "driving the **** out of the track" method I mentioned; we ran that channel of the vocal track through a Summit DCL-200 compressor & just cranked up the input gain to "11". In that case, we didn't blend it with a clean track, but just used it by itself, as that effect ended up working for that part. Hearing this, though, I'm sure you can picture how it would have sounded if we had blended that with a clean track of vocals. We probably "de-comped" the vocals into five separate tracks for this song, in order to get the different effects/processes right for each section, as needed. Wanna hear another one? http://www.saqqararecords.com/images...%20Squeeze.mp3 This one uses a whisper track in the entire verse section, each verse, and one which ends where the aggressive last line of each verse comes in (in the case of the first verse it ends at: "...before I lose control", where the obvious double hits). This is a full song, not a clip - just so you're aware, in case you're not on broadband. Now, on this clip: http://www.saqqararecords.com/images...20Spark%20Clip ..mp3 If you listen to the part where he sings: "I don't believe in fairy tales... " ALL THE WAY to the end of the clip, that part is doubled... just a straight double all the way through. There is also a more obvious double on the "Gonna spread my wings", and the "wo-oh-oh-ohhh" right before that section - that's another track altogether. There is also a unison/harmony track that you an hear on: "I don't believe in fairy tales", which is yet another track - all with slighty different treatment. We're just using all these different tracks to get just the right amount of subtlety between the lead vocal and what's enhancing it... and none of it sounds phased/flanged. Maybe you're still just running the level of the doubled tracks too high? -- Neil Henderson Saqqara Records http://www.saqqararecords.com |
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#15
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"Erik" wrote in message
. .. Neil, Thanks alot for your suggestions!!!!! OSPAM wrote: "Erik Putrycz" wrote in message ... We've been trying to double vocals often on several songs, but no matter how close the two takes are, it doesn't sound good, Both takes have to sounds relatively good in their own right for this to work... do they? Yes that is usually the case. two takes at the same time sound like it is phasing. Are you running both of the doubled tracks at the same level or damn close to it? If so,STOP THAT! Use the main take as.. well, the main take; and then run the second or doubled track down much lower... like anywhere from 7 to 15 dB lower, perhaps. That thing is just not working for my project. Her voice does phase no matter how low the second take is. That far, I only got good sounding backings when they are on a different pitch than the main. What tricks are you guys using to fatten vocals on choruses ???? Doubling. Hextupling. Perhaps a VERY subtle chorus effect (Did I mention "subtle"? Remember, we're not in the 80's anymore). A very, very, very, small room 'verb. A very, very, very slight slapback. One track non-Autotuned, and another, cloned/identical track using Autotune, lined up a few milliseconds behind the original (make sure it's set so that you can hear the artifacts, the drop the level on that track & blend to taste). Oh I tried this one without the sliding the autotuned take... I'll give it a try!!! Sound Forge's Acoustic Mirror, using the original vocal waveform as the impulse, set to like a 1/8th or 1/16th note timing in milliseconds, then bring the resultant waveform back into your project, but at a *much* lower level (this method's kinda cool, actually... you get that ethereal thing going that I can only describe as "not quite a reverb"). That sounds very cool. I'll try that too. Whisper tracks (killer). How do you blend the whisper tracks ? I tried this one too but I couldn't find any way to get them blended no matter what level or panning I tried. Do you have any example I could listen where you did that ? Yes, I do, in fact... here's an example: http://www.saqqararecords.com/images...y%20Spaces%20C lip.mp3 The part where he sings "I've got to scare myself and run...." through: "... and fill those Empty Spaces." (ignoring the obvious harsh doubling of just the "Empty Spaces" bit) is doubled with a whisper track. You should be able to pick this up fairly easily now that it's been pointed out. In this case, it was a slightly more aggressive whisper, but it certainly serves to thicken things up. BTW, the verse - where he's virtually screaming just before that part - is an example of the "driving the **** out of the track" method I mentioned; we ran that channel of the vocal track through a Summit DCL-200 compressor & just cranked up the input gain to "11". In that case, we didn't blend it with a clean track, but just used it by itself, as that effect ended up working for that part. Hearing this, though, I'm sure you can picture how it would have sounded if we had blended that with a clean track of vocals. We probably "de-comped" the vocals into five separate tracks for this song, in order to get the different effects/processes right for each section, as needed. Wanna hear another one? http://www.saqqararecords.com/images...%20Squeeze.mp3 This one uses a whisper track in the entire verse section, each verse, and one which ends where the aggressive last line of each verse comes in (in the case of the first verse it ends at: "...before I lose control", where the obvious double hits). This is a full song, not a clip - just so you're aware, in case you're not on broadband. Now, on this clip: http://www.saqqararecords.com/images...20Spark%20Clip ..mp3 If you listen to the part where he sings: "I don't believe in fairy tales... " ALL THE WAY to the end of the clip, that part is doubled... just a straight double all the way through. There is also a more obvious double on the "Gonna spread my wings", and the "wo-oh-oh-ohhh" right before that section - that's another track altogether. There is also a unison/harmony track that you an hear on: "I don't believe in fairy tales", which is yet another track - all with slighty different treatment. We're just using all these different tracks to get just the right amount of subtlety between the lead vocal and what's enhancing it... and none of it sounds phased/flanged. Maybe you're still just running the level of the doubled tracks too high? -- Neil Henderson Saqqara Records http://www.saqqararecords.com |
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#16
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Erik,
Here's an example of the whisper track method, it's a mix I did for Phoebe Snow last year. http://www.bennettstudios.com/audio/...utifulsnip.mp3 Listen closely to the outer edges, we did 2 tracks hard panned, with the melodic singing dead center. There's also some reverse reverb on the chorus, which if used very sparingly (unlike here) will impart a "fattness" if you will to the vocals. regards, Dave Kowalski Bennett Studios www.bennettstudios.com "Erik" wrote in message . .. Neil, Thanks alot for your suggestions!!!!! OSPAM wrote: "Erik Putrycz" wrote in message ... We've been trying to double vocals often on several songs, but no matter how close the two takes are, it doesn't sound good, Both takes have to sounds relatively good in their own right for this to work... do they? Yes that is usually the case. two takes at the same time sound like it is phasing. Are you running both of the doubled tracks at the same level or damn close to it? If so,STOP THAT! Use the main take as.. well, the main take; and then run the second or doubled track down much lower... like anywhere from 7 to 15 dB lower, perhaps. That thing is just not working for my project. Her voice does phase no matter how low the second take is. That far, I only got good sounding backings when they are on a different pitch than the main. What tricks are you guys using to fatten vocals on choruses ???? Doubling. Hextupling. Perhaps a VERY subtle chorus effect (Did I mention "subtle"? Remember, we're not in the 80's anymore). A very, very, very, small room 'verb. A very, very, very slight slapback. One track non-Autotuned, and another, cloned/identical track using Autotune, lined up a few milliseconds behind the original (make sure it's set so that you can hear the artifacts, the drop the level on that track & blend to taste). Oh I tried this one without the sliding the autotuned take... I'll give it a try!!! Sound Forge's Acoustic Mirror, using the original vocal waveform as the impulse, set to like a 1/8th or 1/16th note timing in milliseconds, then bring the resultant waveform back into your project, but at a *much* lower level (this method's kinda cool, actually... you get that ethereal thing going that I can only describe as "not quite a reverb"). That sounds very cool. I'll try that too. Whisper tracks (killer). How do you blend the whisper tracks ? I tried this one too but I couldn't find any way to get them blended no matter what level or panning I tried. Do you have any example I could listen where you did that ? Erik. |
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#17
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Erik,
Here's an example of the whisper track method, it's a mix I did for Phoebe Snow last year. http://www.bennettstudios.com/audio/...utifulsnip.mp3 Listen closely to the outer edges, we did 2 tracks hard panned, with the melodic singing dead center. There's also some reverse reverb on the chorus, which if used very sparingly (unlike here) will impart a "fattness" if you will to the vocals. regards, Dave Kowalski Bennett Studios www.bennettstudios.com "Erik" wrote in message . .. Neil, Thanks alot for your suggestions!!!!! OSPAM wrote: "Erik Putrycz" wrote in message ... We've been trying to double vocals often on several songs, but no matter how close the two takes are, it doesn't sound good, Both takes have to sounds relatively good in their own right for this to work... do they? Yes that is usually the case. two takes at the same time sound like it is phasing. Are you running both of the doubled tracks at the same level or damn close to it? If so,STOP THAT! Use the main take as.. well, the main take; and then run the second or doubled track down much lower... like anywhere from 7 to 15 dB lower, perhaps. That thing is just not working for my project. Her voice does phase no matter how low the second take is. That far, I only got good sounding backings when they are on a different pitch than the main. What tricks are you guys using to fatten vocals on choruses ???? Doubling. Hextupling. Perhaps a VERY subtle chorus effect (Did I mention "subtle"? Remember, we're not in the 80's anymore). A very, very, very, small room 'verb. A very, very, very slight slapback. One track non-Autotuned, and another, cloned/identical track using Autotune, lined up a few milliseconds behind the original (make sure it's set so that you can hear the artifacts, the drop the level on that track & blend to taste). Oh I tried this one without the sliding the autotuned take... I'll give it a try!!! Sound Forge's Acoustic Mirror, using the original vocal waveform as the impulse, set to like a 1/8th or 1/16th note timing in milliseconds, then bring the resultant waveform back into your project, but at a *much* lower level (this method's kinda cool, actually... you get that ethereal thing going that I can only describe as "not quite a reverb"). That sounds very cool. I'll try that too. Whisper tracks (killer). How do you blend the whisper tracks ? I tried this one too but I couldn't find any way to get them blended no matter what level or panning I tried. Do you have any example I could listen where you did that ? Erik. |
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#18
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daveski wrote:
Erik, Here's an example of the whisper track method, it's a mix I did for Phoebe kewl! Me at: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/5/andymostmusic.htm |
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#19
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daveski wrote:
Erik, Here's an example of the whisper track method, it's a mix I did for Phoebe kewl! Me at: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/5/andymostmusic.htm |
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#20
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Damn! Nice playing there, Andy!
but which one has the whisper track? Dave Kowalski www.bennettstudios.com "Mondoslug1" wrote in message ... daveski wrote: Erik, Here's an example of the whisper track method, it's a mix I did for Phoebe kewl! Me at: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/5/andymostmusic.htm |
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#21
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Damn! Nice playing there, Andy!
but which one has the whisper track? Dave Kowalski www.bennettstudios.com "Mondoslug1" wrote in message ... daveski wrote: Erik, Here's an example of the whisper track method, it's a mix I did for Phoebe kewl! Me at: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/5/andymostmusic.htm |
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#22
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Dave K. wrote:
Damn! Nice playing there, Andy! thanks. but which one has the whisper track? hah hah - this one: http://tinyurl.com/3883p well does hollering count the same? |
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#23
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Dave K. wrote:
Damn! Nice playing there, Andy! thanks. but which one has the whisper track? hah hah - this one: http://tinyurl.com/3883p well does hollering count the same? |
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#24
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On Jul 14, 2004, Erik commented:
How do you blend the whisper tracks ? I tried this one too but I couldn't find any way to get them blended no matter what level or panning I tried. Do you have any example I could listen where you did that ? --------------------------------snip---------------------------------- First time I ever heard a "whisper track" was on The Doors' "Riders On the Storm," listening with headphones in 1971. Gave me the WILLIES. You gotta listen for it, but it's there. --MFW [remove the extra M above for email] |
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#25
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"Marc Wielage" wrote in message
... On Jul 14, 2004, Erik commented: How do you blend the whisper tracks ? I tried this one too but I couldn't find any way to get them blended no matter what level or panning I tried. Do you have any example I could listen where you did that ? --------------------------------snip---------------------------------- First time I ever heard a "whisper track" was on The Doors' "Riders On the Storm," listening with headphones in 1971. Gave me the WILLIES. You gotta listen for it, but it's there. THAT's the key, IMO... get 'em down to a level where they're not noticeable as such. Find the fine line that makes it barely apparent wherein if you were to mute it you'd miss it, but not that you can really identify it as a separate voice. -- Neil Henderson Saqqara Records http://www.saqqararecords.com |
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#26
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On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 23:41:14 GMT,
wrote: "Marc Wielage" wrote in message ... On Jul 14, 2004, Erik commented: How do you blend the whisper tracks ? I tried this one too but I couldn't find any way to get them blended no matter what level or panning I tried. Do you have any example I could listen where you did that ? --------------------------------snip---------------------------------- First time I ever heard a "whisper track" was on The Doors' "Riders On the Storm," listening with headphones in 1971. Gave me the WILLIES. You gotta listen for it, but it's there. THAT's the key, IMO... get 'em down to a level where they're not noticeable as such. Find the fine line that makes it barely apparent wherein if you were to mute it you'd miss it, but not that you can really identify it as a separate voice. It's been a while since I heard it, but back when "Riders" was played on "underground" FM radio in the early '70's, the whispered track was loud enough to seem obvious to me, even on a cheap clock radio. What other popular songs have a "whisper track" doubling a regular singing voice? I think "Riders" quickly comes to mind because the whisper track wasn't really that subtle. But maybe I should listen again. |
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#27
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"Ben Bradley" wrote in message
... THAT's the key, IMO... get 'em down to a level where they're not noticeable as such. Find the fine line that makes it barely apparent wherein if you were to mute it you'd miss it, but not that you can really identify it as a separate voice. It's been a while since I heard it, but back when "Riders" was played on "underground" FM radio in the early '70's, the whispered track was loud enough to seem obvious to me, even on a cheap clock radio. What I was referring to was Marc's statement that "you gotta listen for it, but it's there". I haven't heard "Rider's" in quite some time, either, so I can't recall if that's the case with that one. -- Neil Henderson Saqqara Records http://www.saqqararecords.com |
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#28
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Vocal Doubling is hard hard work...the performance is the main
key....if its not on its just not on...a producer can save a doubling projects...doesnt have to be someone you pay for...a buddy that you think has really goo music sense can work on a small budget...I recently worked on a project in which i was fortunate enough to work with a producer in some high end L.A. studios and Ive never had vocal sessions go so smooth...I had to double every single line of every song...even if it wasnt used...and man its tough...the producer helps because you have an outside ear that can flat out tell you its good or its wrong do it again...your vocalist may have to do it and do it and do it again till its right...it took me a while to master the whole process but with practice you start to feel it...Vocalign is a really great pro tools plugin that uses your master take and can line up your dub take to it...can really help if there are small timing issues between takes...in the mix "as someone mentioned before" your dub is going to have to be substanially lower to get a decent sound....but to reitterate...its really up to the singer doing right and really sticking the syllabants on time and having great pitch control...ive spent hours getting one line right..but its worth it when you get it.... good luck Erik Putrycz wrote in message ... With many commercial songs, I hear this kind of effect that sounds like vocals are doubled (often on choruses). I've been wondering how it is done... it is somekind of effect ? Or is that a mixing trick with the vocals doubled ? We've been trying to double vocals often on several songs, but no matter how close the two takes are, it doesn't sound good, two takes at the same time sound like it is phasing. Even panned, two takes sound still strange... That far, I only got good sounding backings when they are on a different pitch than the main. What tricks are you guys using to fatten vocals on choruses ???? Erik |
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