I've looked at DINR and CEDAR but those are way way way too rich for my
blood. RayGun seems to be pretty good for the price.

What other low cost dehis, depop/crackle apps would you recommend? I'm
converting some old cassettes and LPs to MP3 for archival purposes.

in article , Tony Rice at
wrote on 6/25/04 4:42 PM:

I've looked at DINR and CEDAR but those are way way way too rich for my
blood. RayGun seems to be pretty good for the price.

What other low cost dehis, depop/crackle apps would you recommend? I'm
converting some old cassettes and LPs to MP3 for archival purposes.

well THAT"S a bad idea... unless you're using 'archival' to mean
'convienience' rather than 'absolute best possible preservation copies' for
which any lossy coding is a pretty lame idea. They ARE convienient though!


cheapest click and pop removal is manual... In many real respects STILL the
best way.

hiss removal/reduction is different and more problematic. It's always
dependant on each piece of audio and more often than not I leave it there
rather than live with what happens to program material when you try and
remove it.

DINR is that expensive?


--
John I-22
(that's 'I' for Initial...)
Recognising what's NOT worth your time, THAT'S the key.
--

in article , Tony Rice at
wrote on 6/25/04 4:42 PM:

I've looked at DINR and CEDAR but those are way way way too rich for my
blood. RayGun seems to be pretty good for the price.

What other low cost dehis, depop/crackle apps would you recommend? I'm
converting some old cassettes and LPs to MP3 for archival purposes.

well THAT"S a bad idea... unless you're using 'archival' to mean
'convienience' rather than 'absolute best possible preservation copies' for
which any lossy coding is a pretty lame idea. They ARE convienient though!


cheapest click and pop removal is manual... In many real respects STILL the
best way.

hiss removal/reduction is different and more problematic. It's always
dependant on each piece of audio and more often than not I leave it there
rather than live with what happens to program material when you try and
remove it.

DINR is that expensive?


--
John I-22
(that's 'I' for Initial...)
Recognising what's NOT worth your time, THAT'S the key.
--

SparkXL works well for Denoise, Declick IMO. It's been dliscontinued
(by TC - in favor of their Firewire based plug in unit) but you could
probably still find a copy. I think it was only around $700 new. I don't
believe it's available for OSX, though you might want to check that.

As for archiving LP's to mp3... I think I'd archive as AIFF or .wav files
and save a copy as mp3. Cassettes may not matter as much, depending
on how and what type of original cassette was used (and how they play
back, etc.). Although, I have to say that I've cleaned up some cassettes
using SparkXL and the resultant file wasn't bad. So, I guess...YMMV.
HTH.

From: Tony Rice
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 15:42:05 -0500
Subject: dehis depop on a budget

I've looked at DINR and CEDAR but those are way way way too rich for my
blood. RayGun seems to be pretty good for the price.

What other low cost dehis, depop/crackle apps would you recommend? I'm
converting some old cassettes and LPs to MP3 for archival purposes.

SparkXL works well for Denoise, Declick IMO. It's been dliscontinued
(by TC - in favor of their Firewire based plug in unit) but you could
probably still find a copy. I think it was only around $700 new. I don't
believe it's available for OSX, though you might want to check that.

As for archiving LP's to mp3... I think I'd archive as AIFF or .wav files
and save a copy as mp3. Cassettes may not matter as much, depending
on how and what type of original cassette was used (and how they play
back, etc.). Although, I have to say that I've cleaned up some cassettes
using SparkXL and the resultant file wasn't bad. So, I guess...YMMV.
HTH.

From: Tony Rice
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 15:42:05 -0500
Subject: dehis depop on a budget

I've looked at DINR and CEDAR but those are way way way too rich for my
blood. RayGun seems to be pretty good for the price.

What other low cost dehis, depop/crackle apps would you recommend? I'm
converting some old cassettes and LPs to MP3 for archival purposes.

JoVee wrote in
:

in article , Tony Rice at
wrote on 6/25/04 4:42 PM:

I've looked at DINR and CEDAR but those are way way way too rich for
my blood. RayGun seems to be pretty good for the price.

What other low cost dehis, depop/crackle apps would you recommend?
I'm converting some old cassettes and LPs to MP3 for archival
purposes.

well THAT"S a bad idea... unless you're using 'archival' to mean
'convienience' rather than 'absolute best possible preservation
copies' for which any lossy coding is a pretty lame idea. They ARE
convienient though!

I thought twice about mentioning the word archival and mp3 in the same
sentence for fear of having my knuckles slapped. Convenience is the most
important thing here, especially considering the quality of the
originals. Even with minor post processing, the MP3s are going to sound
much much better than the originals. So being in an inherently lossy
format isn't going to matter that much.

cheapest click and pop removal is manual... In many real respects
STILL the best way.

True.

hiss removal/reduction is different and more problematic. It's always
dependant on each piece of audio and more often than not I leave it
there rather than live with what happens to program material when you
try and remove it.

DINR is that expensive?

Wow, that was helpful, thanks.

JoVee wrote in
:

in article , Tony Rice at
wrote on 6/25/04 4:42 PM:

I've looked at DINR and CEDAR but those are way way way too rich for
my blood. RayGun seems to be pretty good for the price.

What other low cost dehis, depop/crackle apps would you recommend?
I'm converting some old cassettes and LPs to MP3 for archival
purposes.

well THAT"S a bad idea... unless you're using 'archival' to mean
'convienience' rather than 'absolute best possible preservation
copies' for which any lossy coding is a pretty lame idea. They ARE
convienient though!

I thought twice about mentioning the word archival and mp3 in the same
sentence for fear of having my knuckles slapped. Convenience is the most
important thing here, especially considering the quality of the
originals. Even with minor post processing, the MP3s are going to sound
much much better than the originals. So being in an inherently lossy
format isn't going to matter that much.

cheapest click and pop removal is manual... In many real respects
STILL the best way.

True.

hiss removal/reduction is different and more problematic. It's always
dependant on each piece of audio and more often than not I leave it
there rather than live with what happens to program material when you
try and remove it.

DINR is that expensive?

Wow, that was helpful, thanks.

will wrote in news:BD02DCBB.83F%willp17
@sio.midco.net:

As for archiving LP's to mp3... I think I'd archive as AIFF or .wav files
and save a copy as mp3. Cassettes may not matter as much, depending
on how and what type of original cassette was used (and how they play
back, etc.). Although, I have to say that I've cleaned up some cassettes
using SparkXL and the resultant file wasn't bad. So, I guess...YMMV.
HTH.


I'd planned on putting wav files on a DVD for archival purposes but need to
make the MP3s available as well for inclusion in a library's music
collection. Easy access is a priority here.

The cassettes are pretty nasty sounding. Between low quality cassette
stock being used, an overuse of reverb and a surprisingly noise 1/2" master
(which has since been destroyed which is why I've got to take it from the
mass produced cassette), the audio quality is pretty horrid. I'm not going
to let "perfect" be the enemy of "good" here.

will wrote in news:BD02DCBB.83F%willp17
@sio.midco.net:

As for archiving LP's to mp3... I think I'd archive as AIFF or .wav files
and save a copy as mp3. Cassettes may not matter as much, depending
on how and what type of original cassette was used (and how they play
back, etc.). Although, I have to say that I've cleaned up some cassettes
using SparkXL and the resultant file wasn't bad. So, I guess...YMMV.
HTH.


I'd planned on putting wav files on a DVD for archival purposes but need to
make the MP3s available as well for inclusion in a library's music
collection. Easy access is a priority here.

The cassettes are pretty nasty sounding. Between low quality cassette
stock being used, an overuse of reverb and a surprisingly noise 1/2" master
(which has since been destroyed which is why I've got to take it from the
mass produced cassette), the audio quality is pretty horrid. I'm not going
to let "perfect" be the enemy of "good" here.

In article writes:

I thought twice about mentioning the word archival and mp3 in the same
sentence for fear of having my knuckles slapped. Convenience is the most
important thing here, especially considering the quality of the
originals. Even with minor post processing, the MP3s are going to sound
much much better than the originals. So being in an inherently lossy
format isn't going to matter that much.

That's quite possibly true, providing you use one of the better
quality encoders (those who use 'em will tell you what they are, and
aren't) and use a sufficiently high bit rate. Whenever I see "archive"
I always worry about the ability to find something to play the media
on 25 years in the future. If that's not a concern, then it's hard to
beat a single hard drive that has every record and tape on it that
you've ever owned.

cheapest click and pop removal is manual... In many real respects
STILL the best way.

You'd be amazed at how tolerant you can be of clicks and pops when
listening to such "archived" recordings. If you were planning on a
"concert experience" then I could see taking care to clean them up,
but if you're just going to be putting on some music to exercise or
type or dance to, you'll be far too busy to be bothered by an
occasional tick. The time spent getting rid of it will be far more
than the time you remain annoyed that you heard it on your "digital"
playback system.

When I transfer records to CDs (for car listening, or to give someone
a copy of an out-of-print limited production album that they'd never
find a legitmate copy of) I usually just roll off the low end pretty
sharply below 50 Hz. That gets rid of the rumble from my not-so-hot
turntable that I can now hear on today's playback systems, and that's
more like how I remember hearing those recordings when they were new
anyway.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article writes:

The cassettes are pretty nasty sounding. Between low quality cassette
stock being used, an overuse of reverb and a surprisingly noise 1/2" master
(which has since been destroyed which is why I've got to take it from the
mass produced cassette), the audio quality is pretty horrid.

So you do what you can. There isn't much that you can't correct if you
put enough time and effort into it, and have the right tools. Fixing
excessive reverberation is pretty hard to do. So is fixing flutter.
You can roll off the high end to reduce hiss but you have to be
careful about removing too much so that you lose articulation. It's
really worth playing the cassettes on a high quality deck, though, one
where it's easy to get to the head alignment. Transfer one song at a
time, and tweak the head alignment each time because it tends to
wander throughout the tape. You're taking about a several-step process
to even do a halfway decent job.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

--
John I-22
(that's 'I' for Initial...)
Recognising what's NOT worth your time, THAT'S the key.
--

From: Tony Rice
I thought twice about mentioning the word archival and mp3 in the same
sentence for fear of having my knuckles slapped. Convenience is the most
important thing here, especially considering the quality of the
originals. Even with minor post processing, the MP3s are going to sound
much much better than the originals. So being in an inherently lossy
format isn't going to matter that much.

just that word 'archival' has a real meaning.

Big Message here is that you need to play with these little systems to see
that, as you get good at driving them, if what you gain is worth what you
lose on any particular recording.

--
John I-22
(that's 'I' for Initial...)
Recognising what's NOT worth your time, THAT'S the key.
--

From: Tony Rice
(snip)
need to
make the MP3s available as well for inclusion in a library's music
collection. Easy access is a priority here.

The cassettes are pretty nasty sounding. Between low quality cassette
stock being used, an overuse of reverb and a surprisingly noise 1/2" master
(which has since been destroyed which is why I've got to take it from the
mass produced cassette), the audio quality is pretty horrid. I'm not going
to let "perfect" be the enemy of "good" here.

FIRST thing here is head allignment.
Get comfortable (if you're not already) with a jewler's screwdriver and
taking the door off the best cassette deck you have and listening to how
matching the RECORDING's head-allignment works. NOTHING is more important
than matching playback azimuth for getting the best out of a recording.
(You can NOT fix this in digital)
BEIEFLY: you mix the PB to MONO and tweak/listen for maximum hi end. You'll
get the hang of it.

After that, it's on to playing with Dolby (or dbx) NR (almost NEVER is a
machine matched for DOLBY playback level spec and so it is a mess) by ear...
after a lot of practice you can get to be able to hear when you;re hitting
the decoder right, but it's NOT a fun thing even with outboard dolby
decoders (a must, since eq-ing for bad/degraded tape has to happen BEFORE it
hits the Dolby).
more often than not just leaving the NR off and EQ-ing to taste, thus living
with whatever remaining compression is there from the encoding, is the
lesser of evils.

in general it becomes a frustrating cycle of

1- ALLIGN
2- EQ
3- CURSE
(REPEAT 1-2-3 until you give up)
4- SIGH
5- TRANSFER
6- MOVE ON TO THE NEXT RECORDING

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 13:42:05 -0700, Tony Rice wrote
(in article ):

I've looked at DINR and CEDAR but those are way way way too rich for my
blood. RayGun seems to be pretty good for the price.
--------------------------------snip----------------------------------

Not in my experience. Raygun is a *terrible* program, and sounds horrible --
at least the last time I tried it.

DINR has been effectively discontinued by Digidesign, so it's not really a
current program (hasn't been for about two years).

The Waves "Restoration" package is pretty good, at least for de-click and
de-crackle. I'm not as fond of the de-hissing tools. But it's expensive --
I think it's $1200 for the native/VST version. Digidesign's TDM plug-in
version of NoNoise and the other Sonic processors are in the same price
range, and I like their de-hissing package very much.

Probably the best affordable package I've found is Berkely Audio Software's
SoundSoap. I believe the regular $99 version has both standalone and VST
plug-in modes. Note that this is only for Mac OSX. For Windows, my
preference for a low-cost package is for Sound Forge's Noise Reduction 2.0,
which is about $200 or so from Sony.

--MFW