Well, my pastor has finally discovered the problems of trying to rely on
alkaline batteries for the w/l mic. We ran out of alkalines this Sunday and
only had some HD carbon batteries. The mic sounded terrible and quit in the
middle of service. He even agreed to go ahead and get the $60 charger!

I went to Thomas Distributing and discovered that the nice 9.6V, 260 mah
Ni-Mh battery is no longer available. OUCH! The best they have is an 8.4v
200 mah. Searching the web all I find is more of the same. I did find a
8.4v 260 mah at onlybatteries.com, but I would prefer to have a full 9.6v.
Anybody have a source for this? Thanks.

--
Mike D.

www.stopassaultnow.org

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Mike Dobony wrote:
Well, my pastor has finally discovered the problems of trying to rely on
alkaline batteries for the w/l mic. We ran out of alkalines this Sunday and
only had some HD carbon batteries. The mic sounded terrible and quit in the
middle of service. He even agreed to go ahead and get the $60 charger!

Just buy alkalines by the case and change them before every service. Much
less headache.

If you really want you can try the disposable Superlife lithiums. About
four times the cost of alkalines for about five times the life.

I just don't trust any rechargeables enough to use them for critical work.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Mike Dobony wrote:
Well, my pastor has finally discovered the problems of trying to rely on
alkaline batteries for the w/l mic. We ran out of alkalines this Sunday and
only had some HD carbon batteries. The mic sounded terrible and quit in the
middle of service. He even agreed to go ahead and get the $60 charger!

Just buy alkalines by the case and change them before every service. Much
less headache.

If you really want you can try the disposable Superlife lithiums. About
four times the cost of alkalines for about five times the life.

I just don't trust any rechargeables enough to use them for critical work.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Mike Dobony wrote:

Well, my pastor has finally discovered the problems of trying to rely on
alkaline batteries for the w/l mic. We ran out of alkalines this Sunday and
only had some HD carbon batteries. The mic sounded terrible and quit in the
middle of service. He even agreed to go ahead and get the $60 charger!

I went to Thomas Distributing and discovered that the nice 9.6V, 260 mah
Ni-Mh battery is no longer available. OUCH! The best they have is an 8.4v
200 mah.

That's odd. I just looked at http://www.thomas-distributing.com/ , and
they don't seem to have a single 8.4V "9V" battery at all, just 9.6 and
9.4 ones. Their site is sometimes disorganized with broken links though,
so maybe they are messing with it, or maybe you have to go through the
right links in the right order to see the page. :-)

- Logan

Mike Dobony wrote:

Well, my pastor has finally discovered the problems of trying to rely on
alkaline batteries for the w/l mic. We ran out of alkalines this Sunday and
only had some HD carbon batteries. The mic sounded terrible and quit in the
middle of service. He even agreed to go ahead and get the $60 charger!

I went to Thomas Distributing and discovered that the nice 9.6V, 260 mah
Ni-Mh battery is no longer available. OUCH! The best they have is an 8.4v
200 mah.

That's odd. I just looked at http://www.thomas-distributing.com/ , and
they don't seem to have a single 8.4V "9V" battery at all, just 9.6 and
9.4 ones. Their site is sometimes disorganized with broken links though,
so maybe they are messing with it, or maybe you have to go through the
right links in the right order to see the page. :-)

- Logan

Mike Dobony wrote:

Well, my pastor has finally discovered the problems of trying to rely on
alkaline batteries for the w/l mic. We ran out of alkalines this Sunday and
only had some HD carbon batteries. The mic sounded terrible and quit in the
middle of service. He even agreed to go ahead and get the $60 charger!

I went to Thomas Distributing and discovered that the nice 9.6V, 260 mah
Ni-Mh battery is no longer available. OUCH! The best they have is an 8.4v
200 mah. Searching the web all I find is more of the same. I did find a
8.4v 260 mah at onlybatteries.com, but I would prefer to have a full 9.6v.
Anybody have a source for this? Thanks.

--
Mike D.

www.stopassaultnow.org

Remove .spamnot to respond by email


Plainview makes a true 9.6volt. Its 170 ma though.
Do a google search.

Bob



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Mike Dobony wrote:

Well, my pastor has finally discovered the problems of trying to rely on
alkaline batteries for the w/l mic. We ran out of alkalines this Sunday and
only had some HD carbon batteries. The mic sounded terrible and quit in the
middle of service. He even agreed to go ahead and get the $60 charger!

I went to Thomas Distributing and discovered that the nice 9.6V, 260 mah
Ni-Mh battery is no longer available. OUCH! The best they have is an 8.4v
200 mah. Searching the web all I find is more of the same. I did find a
8.4v 260 mah at onlybatteries.com, but I would prefer to have a full 9.6v.
Anybody have a source for this? Thanks.

--
Mike D.

www.stopassaultnow.org

Remove .spamnot to respond by email


Plainview makes a true 9.6volt. Its 170 ma though.
Do a google search.

Bob



-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

Mike Dobony wrote:
Well, my pastor has finally discovered the problems of trying to rely
on alkaline batteries for the w/l mic. We ran out of alkalines this
Sunday and only had some HD carbon batteries. The mic sounded
terrible and quit in the middle of service. He even agreed to go
ahead and get the $60 charger!

I went to Thomas Distributing and discovered that the nice 9.6V, 260
mah Ni-Mh battery is no longer available. OUCH! The best they have
is an 8.4v 200 mah. Searching the web all I find is more of the
same. I did find a
8.4v 260 mah at onlybatteries.com, but I would prefer to have a full
9.6v. Anybody have a source for this? Thanks.

http://www.thomas-distributing.com/new-products.htm#9V shows no lack of
9.6v 200 mAh NiMH. I get this feeling that the 260 mAh NiMH never actually
were, and all that we now see is improved truth-in-advertising.

Mike Dobony wrote:
Well, my pastor has finally discovered the problems of trying to rely
on alkaline batteries for the w/l mic. We ran out of alkalines this
Sunday and only had some HD carbon batteries. The mic sounded
terrible and quit in the middle of service. He even agreed to go
ahead and get the $60 charger!

I went to Thomas Distributing and discovered that the nice 9.6V, 260
mah Ni-Mh battery is no longer available. OUCH! The best they have
is an 8.4v 200 mah. Searching the web all I find is more of the
same. I did find a
8.4v 260 mah at onlybatteries.com, but I would prefer to have a full
9.6v. Anybody have a source for this? Thanks.

http://www.thomas-distributing.com/new-products.htm#9V shows no lack of
9.6v 200 mAh NiMH. I get this feeling that the 260 mAh NiMH never actually
were, and all that we now see is improved truth-in-advertising.

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Mike Dobony wrote:
Well, my pastor has finally discovered the problems of trying to rely on
alkaline batteries for the w/l mic. We ran out of alkalines this Sunday
and
only had some HD carbon batteries. The mic sounded terrible and quit in
the
middle of service. He even agreed to go ahead and get the $60 charger!

Just buy alkalines by the case and change them before every service. Much
less headache.


The Energizer lasts 2 Sundays of 3 services. A case is too much. I want
them fresh. A case will last 3-4 years, with problems questionable life
after the first year or so. For the same cost a good recharger and 3
batteries, one battery assigned to one service, will last at least 6-8 years
if using a proper smart charger. I'm looking at the Maha 10 cell charger.

If you really want you can try the disposable Superlife lithiums. About
four times the cost of alkalines for about five times the life.


No, 60% LESS life. See above and the lithium lasts less than 3 services.
It dies in the middle of the evening service on the first day.

I just don't trust any rechargeables enough to use them for critical work.

Many people do trust them. Just don't rely on the consumer grade chargers.
They are fine for cheap VHF mics, but not pro-grade UHF.

--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


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"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Mike Dobony wrote:
Well, my pastor has finally discovered the problems of trying to rely on
alkaline batteries for the w/l mic. We ran out of alkalines this Sunday
and
only had some HD carbon batteries. The mic sounded terrible and quit in
the
middle of service. He even agreed to go ahead and get the $60 charger!

Just buy alkalines by the case and change them before every service. Much
less headache.


The Energizer lasts 2 Sundays of 3 services. A case is too much. I want
them fresh. A case will last 3-4 years, with problems questionable life
after the first year or so. For the same cost a good recharger and 3
batteries, one battery assigned to one service, will last at least 6-8 years
if using a proper smart charger. I'm looking at the Maha 10 cell charger.

If you really want you can try the disposable Superlife lithiums. About
four times the cost of alkalines for about five times the life.


No, 60% LESS life. See above and the lithium lasts less than 3 services.
It dies in the middle of the evening service on the first day.

I just don't trust any rechargeables enough to use them for critical work.

Many people do trust them. Just don't rely on the consumer grade chargers.
They are fine for cheap VHF mics, but not pro-grade UHF.

--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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Version: 6.0.682 / Virus Database: 444 - Release Date: 5/11/2004

Mike Dobony wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Mike Dobony wrote:
Well, my pastor has finally discovered the problems of trying to rely on
alkaline batteries for the w/l mic. We ran out of alkalines this Sunday
and
only had some HD carbon batteries. The mic sounded terrible and quit in
the
middle of service. He even agreed to go ahead and get the $60 charger!

Just buy alkalines by the case and change them before every service. Much
less headache.

The Energizer lasts 2 Sundays of 3 services. A case is too much. I want
them fresh. A case will last 3-4 years, with problems questionable life
after the first year or so. For the same cost a good recharger and 3
batteries, one battery assigned to one service, will last at least 6-8 years
if using a proper smart charger. I'm looking at the Maha 10 cell charger.

Right, but you replace them LONG before they are going to run out. If they
last 2 sundays, you replace them every sunday. Better to spend a little
more on batteries than have a failure.

If you really want you can try the disposable Superlife lithiums. About
four times the cost of alkalines for about five times the life.

No, 60% LESS life. See above and the lithium lasts less than 3 services.
It dies in the middle of the evening service on the first day.

I'm talking about regular lithiums and not the rechargeable lithium ion
types. If you are getting reduced life with real (disposable) lithiums,
you have some other mechanism at work here (like people leaving packs on).

I just don't trust any rechargeables enough to use them for critical work.

Many people do trust them. Just don't rely on the consumer grade chargers.
They are fine for cheap VHF mics, but not pro-grade UHF.

What about pro grade VHF?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Mike Dobony wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Mike Dobony wrote:
Well, my pastor has finally discovered the problems of trying to rely on
alkaline batteries for the w/l mic. We ran out of alkalines this Sunday
and
only had some HD carbon batteries. The mic sounded terrible and quit in
the
middle of service. He even agreed to go ahead and get the $60 charger!

Just buy alkalines by the case and change them before every service. Much
less headache.

The Energizer lasts 2 Sundays of 3 services. A case is too much. I want
them fresh. A case will last 3-4 years, with problems questionable life
after the first year or so. For the same cost a good recharger and 3
batteries, one battery assigned to one service, will last at least 6-8 years
if using a proper smart charger. I'm looking at the Maha 10 cell charger.

Right, but you replace them LONG before they are going to run out. If they
last 2 sundays, you replace them every sunday. Better to spend a little
more on batteries than have a failure.

If you really want you can try the disposable Superlife lithiums. About
four times the cost of alkalines for about five times the life.

No, 60% LESS life. See above and the lithium lasts less than 3 services.
It dies in the middle of the evening service on the first day.

I'm talking about regular lithiums and not the rechargeable lithium ion
types. If you are getting reduced life with real (disposable) lithiums,
you have some other mechanism at work here (like people leaving packs on).

I just don't trust any rechargeables enough to use them for critical work.

Many people do trust them. Just don't rely on the consumer grade chargers.
They are fine for cheap VHF mics, but not pro-grade UHF.

What about pro grade VHF?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Mike Dobony wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message

If you really want you can try the disposable Superlife lithiums.
About
four times the cost of alkalines for about five times the life.

No, 60% LESS life. See above and the lithium lasts less than 3 services.
It dies in the middle of the evening service on the first day.

I'm talking about regular lithiums and not the rechargeable lithium ion
types. If you are getting reduced life with real (disposable) lithiums,
you have some other mechanism at work here (like people leaving packs on).

So am I. We tried them and they do not last.

That's weird. What kind of current is the wireless pack pulling?
I have added r.a.m.p.s to the crossposts here, because I know a lot of
folks there are using the lithum units on their packs.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Mike Dobony wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message

If you really want you can try the disposable Superlife lithiums.
About
four times the cost of alkalines for about five times the life.

No, 60% LESS life. See above and the lithium lasts less than 3 services.
It dies in the middle of the evening service on the first day.

I'm talking about regular lithiums and not the rechargeable lithium ion
types. If you are getting reduced life with real (disposable) lithiums,
you have some other mechanism at work here (like people leaving packs on).

So am I. We tried them and they do not last.

That's weird. What kind of current is the wireless pack pulling?
I have added r.a.m.p.s to the crossposts here, because I know a lot of
folks there are using the lithum units on their packs.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
Mike Dobony wrote:
Well, my pastor has finally discovered the problems of trying to rely
on alkaline batteries for the w/l mic. We ran out of alkalines this
Sunday and only had some HD carbon batteries. The mic sounded
terrible and quit in the middle of service. He even agreed to go
ahead and get the $60 charger!

I went to Thomas Distributing and discovered that the nice 9.6V, 260
mah Ni-Mh battery is no longer available. OUCH! The best they have
is an 8.4v 200 mah. Searching the web all I find is more of the
same. I did find a
8.4v 260 mah at onlybatteries.com, but I would prefer to have a full
9.6v. Anybody have a source for this? Thanks.

http://www.thomas-distributing.com/new-products.htm#9V shows no lack of
9.6v 200 mAh NiMH. I get this feeling that the 260 mAh NiMH never actually
were, and all that we now see is improved truth-in-advertising.



From the experience from the 8.4v at 150mah, the 9.6v @ 200 does not give me
much extra time to work with. The 8.4 lasts 1.5 hours. I need a minimum of
2.5 hours to allow for communion time. Granted, the 1.5 hours is on
"cooked" batteries and we will be getting a proper computer controlled
charger this time : ). Through basic, and admittedly incomplete,
calculations the 8.4v at 260mah *should* give me a much longer life than the
9.6v at 200mah by almost a half an hour. If I can get a 9.4v at 240 I might
settle for that.

--
Mike D.

www.stopassaultnow.org

Remove .spamnot to respond by email



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"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
Mike Dobony wrote:
Well, my pastor has finally discovered the problems of trying to rely
on alkaline batteries for the w/l mic. We ran out of alkalines this
Sunday and only had some HD carbon batteries. The mic sounded
terrible and quit in the middle of service. He even agreed to go
ahead and get the $60 charger!

I went to Thomas Distributing and discovered that the nice 9.6V, 260
mah Ni-Mh battery is no longer available. OUCH! The best they have
is an 8.4v 200 mah. Searching the web all I find is more of the
same. I did find a
8.4v 260 mah at onlybatteries.com, but I would prefer to have a full
9.6v. Anybody have a source for this? Thanks.

http://www.thomas-distributing.com/new-products.htm#9V shows no lack of
9.6v 200 mAh NiMH. I get this feeling that the 260 mAh NiMH never actually
were, and all that we now see is improved truth-in-advertising.



From the experience from the 8.4v at 150mah, the 9.6v @ 200 does not give me
much extra time to work with. The 8.4 lasts 1.5 hours. I need a minimum of
2.5 hours to allow for communion time. Granted, the 1.5 hours is on
"cooked" batteries and we will be getting a proper computer controlled
charger this time : ). Through basic, and admittedly incomplete,
calculations the 8.4v at 260mah *should* give me a much longer life than the
9.6v at 200mah by almost a half an hour. If I can get a 9.4v at 240 I might
settle for that.

--
Mike D.

www.stopassaultnow.org

Remove .spamnot to respond by email



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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Mike Dobony wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message

If you really want you can try the disposable Superlife lithiums.
About
four times the cost of alkalines for about five times the life.

No, 60% LESS life. See above and the lithium lasts less than 3
services.
It dies in the middle of the evening service on the first day.

I'm talking about regular lithiums and not the rechargeable lithium ion
types. If you are getting reduced life with real (disposable)
lithiums,
you have some other mechanism at work here (like people leaving packs
on).

So am I. We tried them and they do not last.

That's weird. What kind of current is the wireless pack pulling?
I have added r.a.m.p.s to the crossposts here, because I know a lot of
folks there are using the lithum units on their packs.

I don't have the book at home, but we have the Sennheiser EW 100 with the
handheld 835 element.

--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


---
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"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Mike Dobony wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message

If you really want you can try the disposable Superlife lithiums.
About
four times the cost of alkalines for about five times the life.

No, 60% LESS life. See above and the lithium lasts less than 3
services.
It dies in the middle of the evening service on the first day.

I'm talking about regular lithiums and not the rechargeable lithium ion
types. If you are getting reduced life with real (disposable)
lithiums,
you have some other mechanism at work here (like people leaving packs
on).

So am I. We tried them and they do not last.

That's weird. What kind of current is the wireless pack pulling?
I have added r.a.m.p.s to the crossposts here, because I know a lot of
folks there are using the lithum units on their packs.

I don't have the book at home, but we have the Sennheiser EW 100 with the
handheld 835 element.

--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.682 / Virus Database: 444 - Release Date: 5/11/2004

Mike Dobony wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...

Just buy alkalines by the case and change them before every service. Much
less headache.


The Energizer lasts 2 Sundays of 3 services.

That's excellent life in my book. So change the battery every Sunday
and you're safe.



A case is too much. I want
them fresh. A case will last 3-4 years, with problems questionable life
after the first year or so.

So buy the 10- or 12-packs at Costco. They turn them so fast I doubt
you'll have freshness problems.

Mike Dobony wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...

Just buy alkalines by the case and change them before every service. Much
less headache.


The Energizer lasts 2 Sundays of 3 services.

That's excellent life in my book. So change the battery every Sunday
and you're safe.



A case is too much. I want
them fresh. A case will last 3-4 years, with problems questionable life
after the first year or so.

So buy the 10- or 12-packs at Costco. They turn them so fast I doubt
you'll have freshness problems.

Mike Dobony wrote:

From the experience from the 8.4v at 150mah, the 9.6v @ 200 does not give me
much extra time to work with. The 8.4 lasts 1.5 hours. I need a minimum of
2.5 hours to allow for communion time. Granted, the 1.5 hours is on
"cooked" batteries and we will be getting a proper computer controlled
charger this time : ). Through basic, and admittedly incomplete,
calculations the 8.4v at 260mah *should* give me a much longer life than the
9.6v at 200mah by almost a half an hour.

Your assumptions may not be valid. The performance differences will
depend on the design of the TX power supply, its LVD setpoint, and the
battery discharge curve. Buy one and try it...

Mike Dobony wrote:

From the experience from the 8.4v at 150mah, the 9.6v @ 200 does not give me
much extra time to work with. The 8.4 lasts 1.5 hours. I need a minimum of
2.5 hours to allow for communion time. Granted, the 1.5 hours is on
"cooked" batteries and we will be getting a proper computer controlled
charger this time : ). Through basic, and admittedly incomplete,
calculations the 8.4v at 260mah *should* give me a much longer life than the
9.6v at 200mah by almost a half an hour.

Your assumptions may not be valid. The performance differences will
depend on the design of the TX power supply, its LVD setpoint, and the
battery discharge curve. Buy one and try it...

Scott Dorsey wrote:
I just don't trust any rechargeables enough to use them for critical work.

Interesting. I'm sort of the opposite.

I guess my main problem is that I know there is enough juice in
an alkaline to use it more than once. But, because it's such a
pain to track how much they have been used (I guess I could
individually number the batteries and keep a log book...), I don't
trust them unless they're brand new.

I guess if I you have lots of money, you can just use an alkaline
once and then throw it away (or give it away), even if the one
time you use it is just for 30 minutes. But that just seems
really wasteful and expensive to me.

On the other hand, with today's improved rechargeable technology,
if I give someone a wireless mic and they use it for only 30
minutes, I can drop that battery in the charger and it will
quickly charge back up to 100%. In the old days, we had NiCd
batteries and they had "memory", so you had to discharge them all
the way or risk shortening their life. You don't have to do that
anymore with NiMH batteries. Also, in the old days, chargers were
dumb and based on timers, so if you put a partially-discharged
battery in there, it would charge it like it was fully drained
and reduce its life. But modern chargers sense voltage and
temperature changes and and can just stop when the battery is
actually charged. So there is no problem putting a battery in
when it has only discharged by, say, 25%.

Basically, when I'm putting a battery in a mic, if I am choosing
between using a NiMH that might've been used 50 times before but
has been freshly charged to 100% vs. using an Alkaline that has
been used "a little", supposedly, and *should* have 50+% of its
charge left but may only have 25%, then I am more comfortable
choosing the NiMH.

Also, I like rechargeables because they free you up to replace the
batteries as often as you wish. If you have two or three shows
in a row, or a long show with an intermission, you can switch
everybody to a fresh(-ly charged) battery between every show if
you feel like it.

Now if there were a solution to the "hey, this battery is dead,
I think I'll throw it out" problem. They should come up with
an internationally recognized symbol (like the slow-moving
vehicle triangle) that says "this battery is rechargeable --
do not put it in the trash". I guess I could label them myself,
but I can't write that small with a Sharpie...

- Logan

Scott Dorsey wrote:
I just don't trust any rechargeables enough to use them for critical work.

Interesting. I'm sort of the opposite.

I guess my main problem is that I know there is enough juice in
an alkaline to use it more than once. But, because it's such a
pain to track how much they have been used (I guess I could
individually number the batteries and keep a log book...), I don't
trust them unless they're brand new.

I guess if I you have lots of money, you can just use an alkaline
once and then throw it away (or give it away), even if the one
time you use it is just for 30 minutes. But that just seems
really wasteful and expensive to me.

On the other hand, with today's improved rechargeable technology,
if I give someone a wireless mic and they use it for only 30
minutes, I can drop that battery in the charger and it will
quickly charge back up to 100%. In the old days, we had NiCd
batteries and they had "memory", so you had to discharge them all
the way or risk shortening their life. You don't have to do that
anymore with NiMH batteries. Also, in the old days, chargers were
dumb and based on timers, so if you put a partially-discharged
battery in there, it would charge it like it was fully drained
and reduce its life. But modern chargers sense voltage and
temperature changes and and can just stop when the battery is
actually charged. So there is no problem putting a battery in
when it has only discharged by, say, 25%.

Basically, when I'm putting a battery in a mic, if I am choosing
between using a NiMH that might've been used 50 times before but
has been freshly charged to 100% vs. using an Alkaline that has
been used "a little", supposedly, and *should* have 50+% of its
charge left but may only have 25%, then I am more comfortable
choosing the NiMH.

Also, I like rechargeables because they free you up to replace the
batteries as often as you wish. If you have two or three shows
in a row, or a long show with an intermission, you can switch
everybody to a fresh(-ly charged) battery between every show if
you feel like it.

Now if there were a solution to the "hey, this battery is dead,
I think I'll throw it out" problem. They should come up with
an internationally recognized symbol (like the slow-moving
vehicle triangle) that says "this battery is rechargeable --
do not put it in the trash". I guess I could label them myself,
but I can't write that small with a Sharpie...

- Logan

Kurt Albershardt wrote:
Mike Dobony wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...

Just buy alkalines by the case and change them before every
service. Much less headache.


The Energizer lasts 2 Sundays of 3 services.

That's excellent life in my book. So change the battery every Sunday
and you're safe.

Given that the usage pattern provides limited opportunities for resting, I
agree.

We use alkalines, usage is about 45 minutes once a week, Batteries last 6-8
weeks. Check them before each service and know that when the voltage gives
a certain arbitrary indication, its time for a new 'un. There's always
enough in the offering plate to buy at least a new battery when we need it!
;-)

A case is too much. I want them fresh. A case will last 3-4 years,
with problems questionable
life after the first year or so.

So buy the 10- or 12-packs at Costco. They turn them so fast I doubt
you'll have freshness problems.

Agreed. I have the church secretary get 4-packs or 12-packs from Staples.
Not the cheapest, but as long as the giving pattern will allow... ;-)

Kurt Albershardt wrote:
Mike Dobony wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...

Just buy alkalines by the case and change them before every
service. Much less headache.


The Energizer lasts 2 Sundays of 3 services.

That's excellent life in my book. So change the battery every Sunday
and you're safe.

Given that the usage pattern provides limited opportunities for resting, I
agree.

We use alkalines, usage is about 45 minutes once a week, Batteries last 6-8
weeks. Check them before each service and know that when the voltage gives
a certain arbitrary indication, its time for a new 'un. There's always
enough in the offering plate to buy at least a new battery when we need it!
;-)

A case is too much. I want them fresh. A case will last 3-4 years,
with problems questionable
life after the first year or so.

So buy the 10- or 12-packs at Costco. They turn them so fast I doubt
you'll have freshness problems.

Agreed. I have the church secretary get 4-packs or 12-packs from Staples.
Not the cheapest, but as long as the giving pattern will allow... ;-)

"Kurt Albershardt" wrote in message
...
Mike Dobony wrote:

From the experience from the 8.4v at 150mah, the 9.6v @ 200 does not
give me
much extra time to work with. The 8.4 lasts 1.5 hours. I need a
minimum of
2.5 hours to allow for communion time. Granted, the 1.5 hours is on
"cooked" batteries and we will be getting a proper computer controlled
charger this time : ). Through basic, and admittedly incomplete,
calculations the 8.4v at 260mah *should* give me a much longer life than
the
9.6v at 200mah by almost a half an hour.

Your assumptions may not be valid. The performance differences will
depend on the design of the TX power supply, its LVD setpoint, and the
battery discharge curve. Buy one and try it...



I agree, my assumption may not be valid. That is why I admitted that my
calculation is incomplete and said "should" not will. There are a lot of
variables. I need to know what the "death voltage" of the battery is. The
"dead" batteries that can no longer power the mic do fine on my answering
machine. I am only using part of the capacity of the battery because of
power needs of the mic. etc. etc. etc. That is why I am trying to find
both increased voltage and increased mah. I may have to buy one of each and
check it out at home to determine the actual useful life and then buy 2 more
of the best option. So again, do you know of a source of 9.6v 250+mah nimh
batteries?

--
Mike D.

www.stopassaultnow.org

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"Kurt Albershardt" wrote in message
...
Mike Dobony wrote:

From the experience from the 8.4v at 150mah, the 9.6v @ 200 does not
give me
much extra time to work with. The 8.4 lasts 1.5 hours. I need a
minimum of
2.5 hours to allow for communion time. Granted, the 1.5 hours is on
"cooked" batteries and we will be getting a proper computer controlled
charger this time : ). Through basic, and admittedly incomplete,
calculations the 8.4v at 260mah *should* give me a much longer life than
the
9.6v at 200mah by almost a half an hour.

Your assumptions may not be valid. The performance differences will
depend on the design of the TX power supply, its LVD setpoint, and the
battery discharge curve. Buy one and try it...



I agree, my assumption may not be valid. That is why I admitted that my
calculation is incomplete and said "should" not will. There are a lot of
variables. I need to know what the "death voltage" of the battery is. The
"dead" batteries that can no longer power the mic do fine on my answering
machine. I am only using part of the capacity of the battery because of
power needs of the mic. etc. etc. etc. That is why I am trying to find
both increased voltage and increased mah. I may have to buy one of each and
check it out at home to determine the actual useful life and then buy 2 more
of the best option. So again, do you know of a source of 9.6v 250+mah nimh
batteries?

--
Mike D.

www.stopassaultnow.org

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Logan Shaw wrote:
I guess my main problem is that I know there is enough juice in
an alkaline to use it more than once. But, because it's such a
pain to track how much they have been used (I guess I could
individually number the batteries and keep a log book...), I don't
trust them unless they're brand new.

Right. So you never use them unless they're brand new.

I guess if I you have lots of money, you can just use an alkaline
once and then throw it away (or give it away), even if the one
time you use it is just for 30 minutes. But that just seems
really wasteful and expensive to me.

Well, it depends on what the consequences of having it fail are.
I figure an extra dozen batteries is worth five minutes worth of
film stock alone.

On the other hand, with today's improved rechargeable technology,
if I give someone a wireless mic and they use it for only 30
minutes, I can drop that battery in the charger and it will
quickly charge back up to 100%. In the old days, we had NiCd
batteries and they had "memory", so you had to discharge them all
the way or risk shortening their life. You don't have to do that
anymore with NiMH batteries. Also, in the old days, chargers were
dumb and based on timers, so if you put a partially-discharged
battery in there, it would charge it like it was fully drained
and reduce its life. But modern chargers sense voltage and
temperature changes and and can just stop when the battery is
actually charged. So there is no problem putting a battery in
when it has only discharged by, say, 25%.

I still constantly encounter premature battery failure on NiMH packs
even today. I have three packs for the HHb recorder that only last
half an hour six months after being recelled, in spite of the computerized
charger. Six more packs that were recelled at the same time by the same
people and have been treated similarly are just fine.

Basically, when I'm putting a battery in a mic, if I am choosing
between using a NiMH that might've been used 50 times before but
has been freshly charged to 100% vs. using an Alkaline that has
been used "a little", supposedly, and *should* have 50+% of its
charge left but may only have 25%, then I am more comfortable
choosing the NiMH.

Don't trust alkalines that have been used "a little" on a critical
job. Keep them for your walkman, your flashlights, and other noncritical
things. If you're being paid on a gig, use a fresh battery.

Also, I like rechargeables because they free you up to replace the
batteries as often as you wish. If you have two or three shows
in a row, or a long show with an intermission, you can switch
everybody to a fresh(-ly charged) battery between every show if
you feel like it.

You can still do this! When you buy disposable batteries by the case,
they don't cost very much.

Now if there were a solution to the "hey, this battery is dead,
I think I'll throw it out" problem. They should come up with
an internationally recognized symbol (like the slow-moving
vehicle triangle) that says "this battery is rechargeable --
do not put it in the trash". I guess I could label them myself,
but I can't write that small with a Sharpie...

How about fluorescent orange tape? DON'T DISCARD THE ORANGE BATTERIES.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Logan Shaw wrote:
I guess my main problem is that I know there is enough juice in
an alkaline to use it more than once. But, because it's such a
pain to track how much they have been used (I guess I could
individually number the batteries and keep a log book...), I don't
trust them unless they're brand new.

Right. So you never use them unless they're brand new.

I guess if I you have lots of money, you can just use an alkaline
once and then throw it away (or give it away), even if the one
time you use it is just for 30 minutes. But that just seems
really wasteful and expensive to me.

Well, it depends on what the consequences of having it fail are.
I figure an extra dozen batteries is worth five minutes worth of
film stock alone.

On the other hand, with today's improved rechargeable technology,
if I give someone a wireless mic and they use it for only 30
minutes, I can drop that battery in the charger and it will
quickly charge back up to 100%. In the old days, we had NiCd
batteries and they had "memory", so you had to discharge them all
the way or risk shortening their life. You don't have to do that
anymore with NiMH batteries. Also, in the old days, chargers were
dumb and based on timers, so if you put a partially-discharged
battery in there, it would charge it like it was fully drained
and reduce its life. But modern chargers sense voltage and
temperature changes and and can just stop when the battery is
actually charged. So there is no problem putting a battery in
when it has only discharged by, say, 25%.

I still constantly encounter premature battery failure on NiMH packs
even today. I have three packs for the HHb recorder that only last
half an hour six months after being recelled, in spite of the computerized
charger. Six more packs that were recelled at the same time by the same
people and have been treated similarly are just fine.

Basically, when I'm putting a battery in a mic, if I am choosing
between using a NiMH that might've been used 50 times before but
has been freshly charged to 100% vs. using an Alkaline that has
been used "a little", supposedly, and *should* have 50+% of its
charge left but may only have 25%, then I am more comfortable
choosing the NiMH.

Don't trust alkalines that have been used "a little" on a critical
job. Keep them for your walkman, your flashlights, and other noncritical
things. If you're being paid on a gig, use a fresh battery.

Also, I like rechargeables because they free you up to replace the
batteries as often as you wish. If you have two or three shows
in a row, or a long show with an intermission, you can switch
everybody to a fresh(-ly charged) battery between every show if
you feel like it.

You can still do this! When you buy disposable batteries by the case,
they don't cost very much.

Now if there were a solution to the "hey, this battery is dead,
I think I'll throw it out" problem. They should come up with
an internationally recognized symbol (like the slow-moving
vehicle triangle) that says "this battery is rechargeable --
do not put it in the trash". I guess I could label them myself,
but I can't write that small with a Sharpie...

How about fluorescent orange tape? DON'T DISCARD THE ORANGE BATTERIES.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On Mon, 17 May 2004, Logan Shaw wrote:

I guess my main problem is that I know there is enough juice in
an alkaline to use it more than once. But, because it's such a
pain to track how much they have been used (I guess I could
individually number the batteries and keep a log book...), I don't
trust them unless they're brand new.

We used to put white mailing labels on the 9Vs and then put tick marks on
them to indicate the number of hours the battery had been used. We always
rounded to the next hour. If it was past the 17 hours of life the unit
was "rated" at, we would use a new 9V.

A new person working with us took care of that for a couple of gigs, and
when I looked at a battery, there were 25 ticks on it. Got our money out
of that one.

We don't do a good job of keeping the labels on the batteries lately.

Doug

On Mon, 17 May 2004, Logan Shaw wrote:

I guess my main problem is that I know there is enough juice in
an alkaline to use it more than once. But, because it's such a
pain to track how much they have been used (I guess I could
individually number the batteries and keep a log book...), I don't
trust them unless they're brand new.

We used to put white mailing labels on the 9Vs and then put tick marks on
them to indicate the number of hours the battery had been used. We always
rounded to the next hour. If it was past the 17 hours of life the unit
was "rated" at, we would use a new 9V.

A new person working with us took care of that for a couple of gigs, and
when I looked at a battery, there were 25 ticks on it. Got our money out
of that one.

We don't do a good job of keeping the labels on the batteries lately.

Doug

Logan Shaw wrote:

Scott Dorsey wrote:

I just don't trust any rechargeables enough to use them for critical
work.


Interesting. I'm sort of the opposite.
...
with today's improved rechargeable technology,
if I give someone a wireless mic and they use it for only 30
minutes, I can drop that battery in the charger and it will
quickly charge back up to 100%. In the old days, we had NiCd
batteries and they had "memory", so you had to discharge them all
the way or risk shortening their life. You don't have to do that
anymore with NiMH batteries. Also, in the old days, chargers were
dumb and based on timers, so if you put a partially-discharged
battery in there, it would charge it like it was fully drained
and reduce its life. But modern chargers sense voltage and
temperature changes and and can just stop when the battery is
actually charged. So there is no problem putting a battery in
when it has only discharged by, say, 25%.

I have very high confidence in AA NiMH cells but my experience with the 9V (and other multi-cell packs) is not so great.

If more of the wireless TX manufacturers would put modern switchmode supplies in their products, they would run nicely off AA NiMH cells.

9.6V x 200 mAH = 1.92 Watt-hours
1.2V x 2200 mAH = 2.64 Watt-hours

See what I mean? The higer voltage cells suffer in terms of volumetric efficiency...

Logan Shaw wrote:

Scott Dorsey wrote:

I just don't trust any rechargeables enough to use them for critical
work.


Interesting. I'm sort of the opposite.
...
with today's improved rechargeable technology,
if I give someone a wireless mic and they use it for only 30
minutes, I can drop that battery in the charger and it will
quickly charge back up to 100%. In the old days, we had NiCd
batteries and they had "memory", so you had to discharge them all
the way or risk shortening their life. You don't have to do that
anymore with NiMH batteries. Also, in the old days, chargers were
dumb and based on timers, so if you put a partially-discharged
battery in there, it would charge it like it was fully drained
and reduce its life. But modern chargers sense voltage and
temperature changes and and can just stop when the battery is
actually charged. So there is no problem putting a battery in
when it has only discharged by, say, 25%.

I have very high confidence in AA NiMH cells but my experience with the 9V (and other multi-cell packs) is not so great.

If more of the wireless TX manufacturers would put modern switchmode supplies in their products, they would run nicely off AA NiMH cells.

9.6V x 200 mAH = 1.92 Watt-hours
1.2V x 2200 mAH = 2.64 Watt-hours

See what I mean? The higer voltage cells suffer in terms of volumetric efficiency...

Arny Krueger wrote:

Kurt Albershardt wrote:


So buy the 10- or 12-packs at Costco. They turn them so fast I doubt
you'll have freshness problems.


Agreed. I have the church secretary get 4-packs or 12-packs from Staples.
Not the cheapest, but as long as the giving pattern will allow... ;-)


Costco is very, very competetive on batteries.

Arny Krueger wrote:

Kurt Albershardt wrote:


So buy the 10- or 12-packs at Costco. They turn them so fast I doubt
you'll have freshness problems.


Agreed. I have the church secretary get 4-packs or 12-packs from Staples.
Not the cheapest, but as long as the giving pattern will allow... ;-)


Costco is very, very competetive on batteries.

I have a suggestion for you to try. I would not have believed it, but a
local sound contractor suggested it. I have some Sennheiser UHF digital
wireless mikes. I have long been an Energizer user. I even tried the
Titanium E2 batteries. Those Sennheisers are battery hogs. I was lucky
to get 3-4 hours even with the Titaniums. They are factory rated at 6-8
hours on a fresh alkaline battery. I was told that the Energizer
batteries are lousy for wireless mikes, to go with Duracells.

Last week, we had a group using a wireless for four days. With an
Industrial Energizer alkaline, I had to change the batteries during
their lunch break, or it would go dead shortly after lunch. So, I went
to Wal-Mart and got a pack of consumer Duracells. The first day I tried
one, I did not have to change the battery at all that day. And, it ran
fine until half way through the next day. Needless to say, I have now
ordered a stock of Duracells! I was really surprised at this test.
But, I was tired of keeping Energizer in business.

By the way, the Sennheisers are the only ones I've ever run into a
battery problem with. Over the years, I have used Radio Schlock, Nady,
A/T, CSI, Sennheiser, and Sony. I am curently buying Sony UHF for the
new ones and replacements. They use a pair of AA batteries, and seem to
be very happy with the Energizers. When I start to run low on AAs, I
will go ahead and order Duracells, though.

Mike Dobony wrote:

Well, my pastor has finally discovered the problems of trying to rely on
alkaline batteries for the w/l mic. We ran out of alkalines this Sunday and
only had some HD carbon batteries. The mic sounded terrible and quit in the
middle of service. He even agreed to go ahead and get the $60 charger!

I went to Thomas Distributing and discovered that the nice 9.6V, 260 mah
Ni-Mh battery is no longer available. OUCH! The best they have is an 8.4v
200 mah. Searching the web all I find is more of the same. I did find a
8.4v 260 mah at onlybatteries.com, but I would prefer to have a full 9.6v.
Anybody have a source for this? Thanks.

--
Mike D.

www.stopassaultnow.org

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I have a suggestion for you to try. I would not have believed it, but a
local sound contractor suggested it. I have some Sennheiser UHF digital
wireless mikes. I have long been an Energizer user. I even tried the
Titanium E2 batteries. Those Sennheisers are battery hogs. I was lucky
to get 3-4 hours even with the Titaniums. They are factory rated at 6-8
hours on a fresh alkaline battery. I was told that the Energizer
batteries are lousy for wireless mikes, to go with Duracells.

Last week, we had a group using a wireless for four days. With an
Industrial Energizer alkaline, I had to change the batteries during
their lunch break, or it would go dead shortly after lunch. So, I went
to Wal-Mart and got a pack of consumer Duracells. The first day I tried
one, I did not have to change the battery at all that day. And, it ran
fine until half way through the next day. Needless to say, I have now
ordered a stock of Duracells! I was really surprised at this test.
But, I was tired of keeping Energizer in business.

By the way, the Sennheisers are the only ones I've ever run into a
battery problem with. Over the years, I have used Radio Schlock, Nady,
A/T, CSI, Sennheiser, and Sony. I am curently buying Sony UHF for the
new ones and replacements. They use a pair of AA batteries, and seem to
be very happy with the Energizers. When I start to run low on AAs, I
will go ahead and order Duracells, though.

Mike Dobony wrote:

Well, my pastor has finally discovered the problems of trying to rely on
alkaline batteries for the w/l mic. We ran out of alkalines this Sunday and
only had some HD carbon batteries. The mic sounded terrible and quit in the
middle of service. He even agreed to go ahead and get the $60 charger!

I went to Thomas Distributing and discovered that the nice 9.6V, 260 mah
Ni-Mh battery is no longer available. OUCH! The best they have is an 8.4v
200 mah. Searching the web all I find is more of the same. I did find a
8.4v 260 mah at onlybatteries.com, but I would prefer to have a full 9.6v.
Anybody have a source for this? Thanks.

--
Mike D.

www.stopassaultnow.org

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David L. Cottrell wrote:

By the way, the Sennheisers are the only ones I've ever run into a
battery problem with. Over the years, I have used Radio Schlock, Nady,
A/T, CSI, Sennheiser, and Sony. I am curently buying Sony UHF for the
new ones and replacements. They use a pair of AA batteries, and seem to
be very happy with the Energizers. When I start to run low on AAs, I
will go ahead and order Duracells, though.

Shorter battery life is the unfortunate downside of higher output power.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."