Looking to buy one of these small mixers to sum and eq the channels of the new
DAW we are putting in our new room. Its not going to be possible to demo these
units. They both have excellent reps.. Can you please give us your opinion
as to which in your mind, has the more musical eq sound?
Steve

"BlacklineMusic" wrote in message
...
Looking to buy one of these small mixers to sum and eq the channels of the
new
DAW we are putting in our new room. Its not going to be possible to demo
these
units. They both have excellent reps.. Can you please give us your
opinion
as to which in your mind, has the more musical eq sound?

if EQ is your only point of evaluation go midas
one of the sweetest eq's I have ever used
the desk has other issues that were deal killers to me
but you did not ask about anything except eq
the xr-20 has some real limitations for my applications as well
George

In article ,
BlacklineMusic wrote:
Looking to buy one of these small mixers to sum and eq the channels of the new
DAW we are putting in our new room. Its not going to be possible to demo these
units. They both have excellent reps.. Can you please give us your opinion
as to which in your mind, has the more musical eq sound?

The Crest felt better to me. The stubby little faders on the Venice just
annoyed me a lot.

But both of them had very fine EQ. I didn't hear them together and so I
cannot compare them, really. But neither one struck me as a problem, like
the EQ on some other consoles in that price range do.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

In article writes:

Looking to buy one of these small mixers to sum and eq the channels of the new
DAW we are putting in our new room. Its not going to be possible to demo these
units. They both have excellent reps.. Can you please give us your opinion
as to which in your mind, has the more musical eq sound?

The usual approach to an outboard DAW summing mixer is no EQ at all.
While it never hurts to have a different flavor of EQ to try, the most
important question (and I don't have the answer) is "Which, if either,
has an EQ bypass?"


--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )

Scott knows my XR20, and obviously I made the decision to buy it so I'm only
supporting his statements here, but, in deferrence to George, I still didn't
like the Venice enough to spend the extra money and I don't believe the EQ
is all that much better.

And if you look back through the messages, George has some other problems
with the Venice that may or may not have some determination for your
purchase.

The XR20 is a pain in the but on setup. The Venice is not. If you're
putting it into play as you suggested, and EQ is what you are after, I might
nudge the Venice out a little further than the Crest, but it wasn't enough
for me to spend another $700, even with the Midas having a doghouse to work
with for connections. They are NOT the same beast and shouldn't be compared
that way. If you've got money to spend, then the Venice looks cool but
doesn't feel that way. The Crest feels cools but doesn't set up that way.

Both have musical EQ.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




"BlacklineMusic" wrote in message
...
Looking to buy one of these small mixers to sum and eq the channels of the
new
DAW we are putting in our new room. Its not going to be possible to demo
these
units. They both have excellent reps.. Can you please give us your
opinion
as to which in your mind, has the more musical eq sound?
Steve

They both do, as I recall. Certainly the Crest does. I've often considered
setting it up as my recording input and using my Soundtracs Solo simply for
mixdown purposes, but it's too close to call. The Soundtracs was $10k new
and easy to set up. The Crest is $2k and hard to set up. My final decision
was to keep the Soundtracs as the studio console and the Crest as a sidecar
if needed.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1066218918k@trad...

In article
writes:

Looking to buy one of these small mixers to sum and eq the channels of
the new
DAW we are putting in our new room. Its not going to be possible to
demo these
units. They both have excellent reps.. Can you please give us your
opinion
as to which in your mind, has the more musical eq sound?

The usual approach to an outboard DAW summing mixer is no EQ at all.
While it never hurts to have a different flavor of EQ to try, the most
important question (and I don't have the answer) is "Which, if either,
has an EQ bypass?"


--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )

I own both boards and have used them extensively for live sound and
sparingly for recording.

Hands down, the mic pres and EQs on the Venice are unreal for the price. It
is an easy to use board with superior sonics and outstanding headroom. The
small faders are not an issue and have not been with anyone who has operated
the board while I've been present. I intend to mix a current studio project
on the Venice in about 1 month. I'll probably use the mic pres for some of
the guitar tracks. (I own API, Buzz, CraneSong, and others)

The Crest is a much more versatile board. It is relatively neutral
sonically, but the features make it a very powerful piece of gear. With
options in connectors and insert points that the Venice does not offer, it
has become my "go to" board if I'm to interface with unknown gear. I just
did a recording with it-direct to 2 track, for the studio project that I
mentioned above. The EQ is quite useable and the mic pres are very clear
with plenty of headroom. There are no built in talk back functions, BTW.

If I could only have one, I'd take the Crest for versatility. If my
application were fixed and the features fit, I would not hesitate to use the
Venice for sonics. As for the "musical sounding EQ," the Venice kicks butt!
There is a sweetness to everything it touches that just makes the sound rich
and big. If that's all you are looking for, this should be an easy
decision. The Crest gets the job done, but is nothing special. I'd call it
very useful but not exciting.

If you would like to contact me directly, I'd be happy to answer any
questions about the boards. If you are local, we might be able to make
arrangements for a little hands-on time with each.

Let me know.

Mike Kovach


"BlacklineMusic" wrote in message
...
Looking to buy one of these small mixers to sum and eq the channels of the
new
DAW we are putting in our new room. Its not going to be possible to demo
these
units. They both have excellent reps.. Can you please give us your
opinion
as to which in your mind, has the more musical eq sound?
Steve

I don't know if I'd call the Crest nothing special, but mostly I look at
ease of setup and sound quality. To me the Crest won out on sound quality
and the Venice on setup. Setup wasn't my first concern. It's interesting
how each of us views what we do and how equipment allows us to do it.

So there you have it Steve. Two people with differing opinions, and one
whom has both pieces of equipment. My guess is that Michael has more
experience with them both! g

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




"Michael Kovach" wrote in message
...
I own both boards and have used them extensively for live sound and
sparingly for recording.

Hands down, the mic pres and EQs on the Venice are unreal for the price.
It
is an easy to use board with superior sonics and outstanding headroom.
The
small faders are not an issue and have not been with anyone who has
operated
the board while I've been present. I intend to mix a current studio
project
on the Venice in about 1 month. I'll probably use the mic pres for some
of
the guitar tracks. (I own API, Buzz, CraneSong, and others)

The Crest is a much more versatile board. It is relatively neutral
sonically, but the features make it a very powerful piece of gear. With
options in connectors and insert points that the Venice does not offer, it
has become my "go to" board if I'm to interface with unknown gear. I just
did a recording with it-direct to 2 track, for the studio project that I
mentioned above. The EQ is quite useable and the mic pres are very clear
with plenty of headroom. There are no built in talk back functions, BTW.

If I could only have one, I'd take the Crest for versatility. If my
application were fixed and the features fit, I would not hesitate to use
the
Venice for sonics. As for the "musical sounding EQ," the Venice kicks
butt!
There is a sweetness to everything it touches that just makes the sound
rich
and big. If that's all you are looking for, this should be an easy
decision. The Crest gets the job done, but is nothing special. I'd call
it
very useful but not exciting.

If you would like to contact me directly, I'd be happy to answer any
questions about the boards. If you are local, we might be able to make
arrangements for a little hands-on time with each.

Let me know.

Mike Kovach


"BlacklineMusic" wrote in message
...
Looking to buy one of these small mixers to sum and eq the channels of
the
new
DAW we are putting in our new room. Its not going to be possible to
demo
these
units. They both have excellent reps.. Can you please give us your
opinion
as to which in your mind, has the more musical eq sound?
Steve

The usual approach to an outboard DAW summing mixer is no EQ at all.

I guess I'm unusual because I hate digital eqs, even the top dogs like Sony
Oxford get smoked by the most modest of outboard eqs. Sure the Sony sounds
pretty and adds glamour, but it doesn't give the 3D brilliance that analog eq
gives. Some might disagree but every time I have a few extra hours and do a
mix using analog console eq, it always KILLS the mix with the software eq.
Steve

There is some great info in this thread and its all much appreciated. Can you
guys talk about why it is hard to set up the Crest? Remember that all I will
do is run balanced line outs from my Apogee DA-16 to the boards channel ins
(inserts or 1.4" ins if they bypass the pres..??) and then mix to two track. I
won't be using that many features besides that. From what I'm hearing, it
seems that the Midas really will have the sonic edge and sonics are obviously
something I'm after.

Mike, I currently have an outboard summing box with no eq and it is a league
above the sound of the "in computer" digitally summed mix, but as soon as I sum
to a console and use analog eqs, like I said before, it sounds more like a
record. Thanks again for the comments, more are ofcourse appreciated. Does
anyone else find the Crest more on the neutral side and the Midas more on the
warm fat musical side?
Steve

BlacklineMusic wrote:

Mike, I currently have an outboard summing box with no eq and it is a league
above the sound of the "in computer" digitally summed mix, but as soon as I sum
to a console and use analog eqs, like I said before, it sounds more like a
record. Thanks again for the comments, more are ofcourse appreciated. Does
anyone else find the Crest more on the neutral side and the Midas more on the
warm fat musical side?

Why not save your money, then, and get a few channels of some old API console
EQs or something like that? The little Speck isn't all that expensive
either and will beat any console EQ hands down.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Why not save your money, then, and get a few channels of some old API console
EQs or something like that?

The Crest and Midas will have 16 channels of 4 band eq for 1600 and 3500 est...
The API for the same amount of channels is much more. In the upstairs room,
we have 4 channels of API just recently bought and its incredible. We use
those with the summing buss. Instead of buying another summing buss and more
eqs, I figure the console route should be good. From what people are saying
about the Midas, it seems like a good idea. Go Sox.
Steve

BlacklineMusic wrote:

Why not save your money, then, and get a few channels of some old API console
EQs or something like that?

The Crest and Midas will have 16 channels of 4 band eq for 1600 and 3500
est...
The API for the same amount of channels is much more. In the upstairs room,
we have 4 channels of API just recently bought and its incredible. We use
those with the summing buss. Instead of buying another summing buss and more
eqs, I figure the console route should be good. From what people are saying
about the Midas, it seems like a good idea. Go Sox.


But why do you need 16 channels of EQ on a mix? I'd rather have four
great EQs than 128 good ones. If you need to equalize every track in
the mix, somebody's not doing their job in tracking. In my opinion.

ulysses

If you need to equalize every track in
the mix, somebody's not doing their job in tracking. In my opinion.

I'd like you to find me one current commercial hard rock/ alt rock mix that you
believe has no eq on a particular instrument. Tracking perfectly looks good on
paper, but I always find that there is something that can use a little tweak,
even if its just a dip of .5 db at 300Hz... Also, even if something is mic'd
perfectly, its always convenient to have a decent eq if need be. You have an
analog board and I don't think you realize the FLATNESS of digital eq. People
blame summing of digital to make their mixes 2D, but the digital EQ is a close
second... But the key is summing out of the damn computer.. thats step number
one.... Hey hows my Samson doing???
Steve

I really encourage you to listen for yourself, Steve. Some folks actually
like the "dry and surgical" type of EQ. SSL used to offer different kinds
of EQ on their digital boards for that-the E and G series. That's not
necessarily a bad thing. I like the sound of that "something special" when
you just give the signal a little "oomph!" from a great EQ.

Are you anywhere near Indianapolis? I really think you'd do yourself a
favor by listening to both side by side. I'd be happy to throw up a simple
mix out of DP and let you listen to both boards. If you'd like, you can
bring your own files and use your converters.

Mikey


"BlacklineMusic" wrote in message
...
There is some great info in this thread and its all much appreciated. Can
you
guys talk about why it is hard to set up the Crest? Remember that all I
will
do is run balanced line outs from my Apogee DA-16 to the boards channel
ins
(inserts or 1.4" ins if they bypass the pres..??) and then mix to two
track. I
won't be using that many features besides that. From what I'm hearing, it
seems that the Midas really will have the sonic edge and sonics are
obviously
something I'm after.

Mike, I currently have an outboard summing box with no eq and it is a
league
above the sound of the "in computer" digitally summed mix, but as soon as
I sum
to a console and use analog eqs, like I said before, it sounds more like a
record. Thanks again for the comments, more are ofcourse appreciated.
Does
anyone else find the Crest more on the neutral side and the Midas more on
the
warm fat musical side?
Steve

I'd be happy to throw up a simple
mix out of DP and let you listen to both boards. If you'd like, you can
bring your own files and use your converters.

Mike that is a very kind and generous offer, but unfortunately I'm in Boston.
Do you mix your DP rig out to one of the boards?

Can you tell me why it is harder to set up the Crest? Also, how much more
sonic goodness does the Midas have over the Crest in its eq and overall sound?
Are the eqs radically different? Is one surgical and the other wide bandwidth
colorful?

I can't demo them anywhere in Boston. I can however buy them and return them
if I don't like them, but I'd at least like to start in the direction that I
think would be best, which is, sound quality. thanks for you opinions,
Steve

BlacklineMusic wrote:

I'd like you to find me one current commercial hard rock/ alt rock
mix that you believe has no eq on a particular instrument. Tracking
perfectly looks good on paper, but I always find that there is
something that can use a little tweak, even if its just a dip of .5
db at 300Hz... Also, even if something is mic'd perfectly, its
always convenient to have a decent eq if need be. You have an analog
board and I don't think you realize the FLATNESS of digital eq.
People blame summing of digital to make their mixes 2D, but the
digital EQ is a close second... But the key is summing out of the
damn computer.. thats step number one....


Okay, I understand. But I still think a few channels of Kick Ass brand
EQ on your guitars, vocals, maybe a drum or two, and your "2D" plug-ins
for the hi-hat and tambourine would be better than 16 channels of "not
bad" EQ for every channel.

Still, what you should be looking for is a used Speck 16-channel stereo
EQ. They seem to go for a lot less than I'd expect, considering what
you get. Find one of those and you can still afford a couple of APIs.


Hey hows my Samson doing???

Still waiting for the schematic.


ulysses

BlacklineMusic wrote:

I'd like you to find me one current commercial hard rock/ alt rock
mix that you believe has no eq on a particular instrument. Tracking
perfectly looks good on paper, but I always find that there is
something that can use a little tweak, even if its just a dip of .5
db at 300Hz... Also, even if something is mic'd perfectly, its
always convenient to have a decent eq if need be. You have an analog
board and I don't think you realize the FLATNESS of digital eq.
People blame summing of digital to make their mixes 2D, but the
digital EQ is a close second... But the key is summing out of the
damn computer.. thats step number one....


Okay, I understand. But I still think a few channels of Kick Ass brand
EQ on your guitars, vocals, maybe a drum or two, and your "2D" plug-ins
for the hi-hat and tambourine would be better than 16 channels of "not
bad" EQ for every channel.

Still, what you should be looking for is a used Speck 16-channel stereo
EQ. They seem to go for a lot less than I'd expect, considering what
you get. Find one of those and you can still afford a couple of APIs.


Hey hows my Samson doing???

Still waiting for the schematic.


ulysses

Hey hows my Samson doing???

Still waiting for the schematic.

Oh yeah. Ha ha! My fault. I'll find it in the closet like I said I would a
week ago. Go Sox??? Oh **** it.... we're cursed. Go Marlins....
Steve

Hey hows my Samson doing???

Still waiting for the schematic.

Oh yeah. Ha ha! My fault. I'll find it in the closet like I said I would a
week ago. Go Sox??? Oh **** it.... we're cursed. Go Marlins....
Steve

"BlacklineMusic" wrote in message
...

Can you tell me why it is harder to set up the Crest? Also, how much more
sonic goodness does the Midas have over the Crest in its eq and overall
sound?
Are the eqs radically different? Is one surgical and the other wide
bandwidth
colorful?

Considering that you won't be doing a setup day in and day out, it's a no
brainer to setup the Crest. I don't recall that you'd mentioned it before,
so I'd assumed a live mixing situation. You can scratch that as a negative
in a install setup.

As far as sonics are concerned I assume that if Tonebarge can get what he
gets out of ADATs and a Mackie 1604, the difference in choice between the
Venice and the XR20 is of minimal difference.

I don't know who your retailer is for Crest, but I borrowed an XR20 for a
live jazz recording at the local Improv as a test from the Mid-Atlantic
distributor out of Huntvalley, MD. I've also tried out a full blown SADiE
system from Washington Professional Systems by giving SADiE a call in
Nashberg without a problem. I don't know why Crest wouldn't be willing to
do the same for you.

Try contacting
New England Tech
John Gagne (Sales)
9 Terrace Drive
Worcester, MA 01609
Tel: 508-797-4603
Fax: 508-865-8855


--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.

"BlacklineMusic" wrote in message
...

Can you tell me why it is harder to set up the Crest? Also, how much more
sonic goodness does the Midas have over the Crest in its eq and overall
sound?
Are the eqs radically different? Is one surgical and the other wide
bandwidth
colorful?

Considering that you won't be doing a setup day in and day out, it's a no
brainer to setup the Crest. I don't recall that you'd mentioned it before,
so I'd assumed a live mixing situation. You can scratch that as a negative
in a install setup.

As far as sonics are concerned I assume that if Tonebarge can get what he
gets out of ADATs and a Mackie 1604, the difference in choice between the
Venice and the XR20 is of minimal difference.

I don't know who your retailer is for Crest, but I borrowed an XR20 for a
live jazz recording at the local Improv as a test from the Mid-Atlantic
distributor out of Huntvalley, MD. I've also tried out a full blown SADiE
system from Washington Professional Systems by giving SADiE a call in
Nashberg without a problem. I don't know why Crest wouldn't be willing to
do the same for you.

Try contacting
New England Tech
John Gagne (Sales)
9 Terrace Drive
Worcester, MA 01609
Tel: 508-797-4603
Fax: 508-865-8855


--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.

I can't demo them anywhere in Boston. I can however buy them and return
them
if I don't like them,

PA companies are starting to keep a lot of Midas Venice mixers in stock for
smaller industrial gigs. I'd call all the PA people in your area & rent one for
a day.

Scott Fraser

The
small faders are not an issue and have not been with anyone who has operated
the board while I've been present.

I'll weigh in as one of those who do find the small faders to be an issue for
live work. On every other pro mixer I know that a certain amount of fader
travel, corresponding to a certain amount of unconscious muscle response, will
yield a certain amount of gain change. With the little faders, not only does a
given move encompass a greater percentage of the overall travel, but it seems
that the taper is different too. I don't like them. This would not be something
I see as a problem in Steve's scenario, though, mixing with a DAW.


Scott Fraser

Much thanks to all who have contributed, I have a Venice 160 on demo now and
I'll report back soon.
Steve