OK, this is weirdness. When some new cell phones ring (with the ringer
muted) they emit an electronic pulse that has been causing a extremely loud
electronic BAZAAAAP! noise in my Sennheiser Lavalier mics. I have been
wondering on occasion lately, "Hey what the hell was that?", and now I have
found that the ridiculous electronic noise is invariably accompanied by a muted
cell phone going off.

So you guys might like to be specific when you ask people to turn their
cells off, some people will just mute them and if they have an offending model
it could screw up a take pretty damn well and leave you wondering what is wrong
with your gear! Doesn't sound anything like mic noise, it's digital pulse buzz
like I might imagine an "E-Bomb" might give off to knock down electronic
communications or something. Could something like that screw up a digital
mixer or interfere with a computer/DAW? Hey maybe that's the nefarious plan,
when all the Samsung cell phone go off at once Dr. Evil takes down all our
communications!

Or something...

Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Audioist / Fox News
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

"WillStG" wrote in message
...
OK, this is weirdness. When some new cell phones ring (with the
ringer
muted) they emit an electronic pulse that has been causing a extremely
loud
electronic BAZAAAAP! noise in my Sennheiser Lavalier mics. I have been
wondering on occasion lately, "Hey what the hell was that?", and now I
have
found that the ridiculous electronic noise is invariably accompanied by a
muted
cell phone going off.

So you guys might like to be specific when you ask people to turn
their
cells off, some people will just mute them and if they have an offending
model
it could screw up a take pretty damn well and leave you wondering what is
wrong
with your gear! Doesn't sound anything like mic noise, it's digital pulse
buzz
like I might imagine an "E-Bomb" might give off to knock down electronic
communications or something. Could something like that screw up a digital
mixer or interfere with a computer/DAW? Hey maybe that's the nefarious
plan,
when all the Samsung cell phone go off at once Dr. Evil takes down all our
communications!

Or something...

Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Audioist / Fox News
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

nothing like running a small motor near a sensitive mic to add to ones
headaches.

makes me wonder is there mght be a market for MU metal jumpsuits.

On Mon, 6 Dec 2004 01:00:02 -0500, "TimPerry"
wrote:

makes me wonder is there mght be a market for MU metal jumpsuits. snip

Not too many years ago, ABC actually had all their wire run ducts
coated with mu metal to allay any fears about "electromagnetic
radiation" illnesses! This was at the Talmadge and Prospect studios.
The contractor, a personal friend of mine, laughed all the way to the
bank, but the dunderheaded ABC brass were QUITE serious! Mind you,
the hottest thing in those ducts was 480. LOL!

dB

DeserTBoB wrote:
On Mon, 6 Dec 2004 01:00:02 -0500, "TimPerry"
wrote:

makes me wonder is there mght be a market for MU metal jumpsuits. snip

Not too many years ago, ABC actually had all their wire run ducts
coated with mu metal to allay any fears about "electromagnetic
radiation" illnesses! This was at the Talmadge and Prospect studios.
The contractor, a personal friend of mine, laughed all the way to the
bank, but the dunderheaded ABC brass were QUITE serious! Mind you,
the hottest thing in those ducts was 480. LOL!

Given the number of lawsuits out there, this might have been a good idea.
You wouldn't believe some of the bizarre suits out there from folks claiming
damage due to electromagnetic radiation. It's at the point where OSHA has
now made guidelines for RF exposure, in the absence of any actual physical
data. If a few tens of thousands of dollars of overpriced conduit keeps
away a million-dollar lawsuit, it's a good investment even if it really does
nothing.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
DeserTBoB wrote:
On Mon, 6 Dec 2004 01:00:02 -0500, "TimPerry"
wrote:

makes me wonder is there mght be a market for MU metal jumpsuits. snip

Not too many years ago, ABC actually had all their wire run ducts
coated with mu metal to allay any fears about "electromagnetic
radiation" illnesses! This was at the Talmadge and Prospect studios.
The contractor, a personal friend of mine, laughed all the way to the
bank, but the dunderheaded ABC brass were QUITE serious! Mind you,
the hottest thing in those ducts was 480. LOL!

Given the number of lawsuits out there, this might have been a good idea.
You wouldn't believe some of the bizarre suits out there from folks
claiming
damage due to electromagnetic radiation. It's at the point where OSHA has
now made guidelines for RF exposure, in the absence of any actual physical
data. If a few tens of thousands of dollars of overpriced conduit keeps
away a million-dollar lawsuit, it's a good investment even if it really
does
nothing.

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, note that the plantiff has spent
20-30x more of his lifetime in private dwellings where all the
power wiring is completely unshielded. I submit that the defendant's
ordinary thin steel conduit is vastly superior in terms of both
electrostatic and electromagnetic shielding to anything the plantif
has in any of the places he had lived during his lifetime.

On Mon, 6 Dec 2004 21:20:32 -0800, "Richard Crowley"
wrote:


It's at the point where OSHA has
now made guidelines for RF exposure, in the absence of any actual physical
data. snip

Now THAT I agree with, it's been long overdue, and the assertion that
there's "no physical data" is corporate hogwash. Having worked
microwave for years, and knowing other fellow microwave techs who
wound up with cataracts by age 40, as well as leukemia and various
cancers, I know for a fact that non-ionizing radiation IS dangerous,
no doubt about it.

Case in point: For years since 1950, AT&T Long Lines maintained 4 and
11 GHz transmitters at the top of the Empire State in NYC. Western
Electric always used flanged rigid copper waveguide with absorptive
gaskets, but radio sites in the entire Bell System were notoriously
leaky. A communication tech who had the Empire State job for ages had
a desk directly under the elbows for the waveguide runs coming in off
the roof. One day, he simply keeled over dead. Autopsy showed he was
literally cooked from the inside out. He had been experiencing
fatigue, unexplained fevers, cataract problems for years and other
maladies, but his doctors were unsure of the causes. Once he was
opened up, the cause was pretty obvious. Remember, this was before
the advent of the RadaRange, and most people were clueless about the
effects of MW radiation.

AT&T tried desperately to keep this hushed up, but the rumor mill in
the Bell System at the time was better than most of their
transcontinental carrier systems. A Narda was used to "sniff" the
Empire State radio room, and horrendous leakage was found right in the
area where he spent most of his time during his shift. The widow was
paid off handsomely to avoid a suit, and a spate of waveguide
inspections started nationwide. Crappy installation, misaligned
flanges, missing gaskets, cracked solder and other maladies showed up
nationwide, including in the office were I worked. Once many of these
were fixed, of course, transmitter powers had to be decreased in many
locations; the receiving end was simply running out of AGC due to
higher power from the transmit end!

Another case: A technician in Los Angeles had a roll-around rack of
various KS-spec H-P test gear arranged as an MLA in the radio room
there. This set was always kept "hot," since the line-up time from
cold was considerable. The unterminated 50 ohm output from the MW
generator in the test set was within a few feet of this guy's desk for
years. Result: Loss of sight in one eye, serious cataracts with iris
damage in the other. One day, a 50 ohm N-connector dummy load
appeared on the output connector, with a missive, "Generator MUST be
terminated at all times." 'Nuff said there!

It's a documented fact that AT&T tried very hard for years to keep
OSHA from issuing RF radiation standards, fearing a spate of suits
after the Empire State caper. When proof came that the Soviets had
set standards less than HALF of accepted US standards for
environmental exposure, the suits came and went anyway, but many
peoples' lives were ruined before that time. I know I have health
problems from MW exposure, but fortunately, they're pretty minor.
Since I quit working in MW locations, my cataracts quit growing, but
I'll need surgery anyway pretty soon. Proof enough for me!

EMR claims have largely been debunked as a non-issue, but don't tell
me about "harmless" non-ionizing radiation from microwave. Been
there, SEEN that. Why do you think AT&T junked their massive MW
network during the analog-to-digital conversion in the '90s? It sure
as hell wasn't for cost savings of operation. A plan was in effect to
convert all 4 GHz TD-type radio routes from 1200-to-1800 channel
analog to 90 MB/s PCM back in those days, but suddenly, word came down
from Noo Joisey that microwave was out...no explanation given. Tells
volumes right there.

You want to look down an open hot waveguide? Be my guest. Then,
years later when your functionally blind, you can remember you heard
it here first.

dB

WillStG wrote:

OK, this is weirdness. When some new cell phones ring (with the ringer
muted) they emit an electronic pulse that has been causing a extremely loud
electronic BAZAAAAP! noise in my Sennheiser Lavalier mics. I have been
wondering on occasion lately, "Hey what the hell was that?", and now I have
found that the ridiculous electronic noise is invariably accompanied by a muted
cell phone going off.

So you guys might like to be specific when you ask people to turn their
cells off, some people will just mute them and if they have an offending model
it could screw up a take pretty damn well and leave you wondering what is wrong
with your gear! Doesn't sound anything like mic noise, it's digital pulse buzz
like I might imagine an "E-Bomb" might give off to knock down electronic
communications or something. Could something like that screw up a digital
mixer or interfere with a computer/DAW? Hey maybe that's the nefarious plan,
when all the Samsung cell phone go off at once Dr. Evil takes down all our
communications!

Maybe a simple explanation of the meaning of *off* would help ?


Graham

In article ospam writes:

OK, this is weirdness. When some new cell phones ring (with the ringer
muted) they emit an electronic pulse that has been causing a extremely loud
electronic BAZAAAAP! noise in my Sennheiser Lavalier mics. I have been
wondering on occasion lately, "Hey what the hell was that?", and now I have
found that the ridiculous electronic noise is invariably accompanied by a muted
cell phone going off.

Why would anyone wearing (or near) an active mic want to have his cell
phone turned on at all? EMI is worse than ever. Remind people to turn
their phones completely off, or leave them outside the studio with
someone who will answer if it's really that important to not miss a
call.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

WillStG wrote:
OK, this is weirdness. When some new cell phones ring (with the ringer
muted) they emit an electronic pulse that has been causing a extremely loud
electronic BAZAAAAP! noise in my Sennheiser Lavalier mics. I have been
wondering on occasion lately, "Hey what the hell was that?", and now I have
found that the ridiculous electronic noise is invariably accompanied by a muted
cell phone going off.

Not only this, but occasionally cellphones that aren't in use will produce
brief ticking sounds in nearby mikes. They aren't very loud, but they can
also be a real nightmare to track down. I hate the things.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

I've been asking for cell phones to be turned off for all sessions I do for
about 4-5 years now. I can't control the concerts, but I can do the
sessions. BTW, many wired mics also have issues. The Neumann KM 18x series
is particularly sensitive to cellular interference. The early Yamaha
digital consoles are also pretty easily hit.

--Ben

--
Benjamin Maas
Fifth Circle Audio
Los Angeles, CA
http://www.fifthcircle.com

Please remove "Nospam" from address for replies

"WillStG" wrote in message
...
OK, this is weirdness. When some new cell phones ring (with the
ringer
muted) they emit an electronic pulse that has been causing a extremely
loud
electronic BAZAAAAP! noise in my Sennheiser Lavalier mics. I have been
wondering on occasion lately, "Hey what the hell was that?", and now I
have
found that the ridiculous electronic noise is invariably accompanied by a
muted
cell phone going off.

So you guys might like to be specific when you ask people to turn
their
cells off, some people will just mute them and if they have an offending
model
it could screw up a take pretty damn well and leave you wondering what is
wrong
with your gear! Doesn't sound anything like mic noise, it's digital pulse
buzz
like I might imagine an "E-Bomb" might give off to knock down electronic
communications or something. Could something like that screw up a digital
mixer or interfere with a computer/DAW? Hey maybe that's the nefarious
plan,
when all the Samsung cell phone go off at once Dr. Evil takes down all our
communications!

Or something...

Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Audioist / Fox News
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

"WillStG" wrote in message
...
OK, this is weirdness. When some new cell phones ring (with the
ringer
muted) they emit an electronic pulse that has been causing a extremely
loud
electronic BAZAAAAP! noise in my Sennheiser Lavalier mics. I have been
wondering on occasion lately, "Hey what the hell was that?", and now I
have
found that the ridiculous electronic noise is invariably accompanied by a
muted
cell phone going off.

I've found in my experience that it's the GSM type cell phones (ATT,
TMobile, etc.) whose frequency somehow gets into audio equipment. CDMA (as
in my Verizon cell phone) doesn't. Perhaps there's a technical explanation
related to the frequencies at which these services operate. I've been
warning people about it for a couple of years now after someone with a cell
phone ruined a take in a session, and this person was in the control room,
not in front of a mic.

Also, I think it doesn't have to do with it being muted. It happens when
it's on and it's ringing or about to, as far as I've seen.



JLRevelo
www.jlrevelo.com

I always know when I'm about to get a call in my car, because I get
that tick-tick-tick bzz oscillation over my car stereo speakers just
before the phone rings.
Briefly,
In my experience, condenser mics with unbalanced or
"impedance-balanced" outputs are all susceptible to cell phone
interference to varying degrees.
Mics with transistor-balanced outputs, i.e. mics that have the Schoeps
CMC3 topology as a common ancestor fare much better than the unbalanced
mics, but will still oscillate if the phone is near (within a foot or
two of) the cable or XLR output of the mic.
Hybrid mics, such as the Schoeps CMC6's reject this interference better
than the discrete balanced mics.
However,
Mics equipped with output transformers that I have tested are
completely immune to this problem.
The offending phones appear to be CDMA and GSM based and the resulting
noise occuring as a result of the carrier signal coupling through the
cable, causing the active circuitry to oscillate.
Brent Casey
PMI Audio Group
877-563-6335

I concur. I have also noticed over the years that the GSM phones are the
culprits. Like you, I find CDMA doesn't usually present the same problems.
The EMF from GSM phones seems to find its way into all kinds of lines. I've
even seen the display on a CRT completely collapse as the GSM cell phone
sitting next to it rings.

What worries me is that even next to some fairly low impedance audio lines,
I've had pretty horrendous noises come buzzing out of my monitors. Even
when the phone is being used on a call (not ringing), the buzz radiates into
even low impedance circuits.

Makes me wonder how bad those things really do fry your brain!

Bill Ruys.

"JL" wrote in message
news
"WillStG" wrote in message
...
OK, this is weirdness. When some new cell phones ring (with the
ringer
muted) they emit an electronic pulse that has been causing a extremely
loud
electronic BAZAAAAP! noise in my Sennheiser Lavalier mics. I have been
wondering on occasion lately, "Hey what the hell was that?", and now I
have
found that the ridiculous electronic noise is invariably accompanied by a
muted
cell phone going off.

I've found in my experience that it's the GSM type cell phones (ATT,
TMobile, etc.) whose frequency somehow gets into audio equipment. CDMA (as
in my Verizon cell phone) doesn't. Perhaps there's a technical explanation
related to the frequencies at which these services operate. I've been
warning people about it for a couple of years now after someone with a
cell
phone ruined a take in a session, and this person was in the control room,
not in front of a mic.

Also, I think it doesn't have to do with it being muted. It happens when
it's on and it's ringing or about to, as far as I've seen.



JLRevelo
www.jlrevelo.com

"WillStG" wrote in message ...
OK, this is weirdness. When some new cell phones ring (with the ringer
muted) they emit an electronic pulse that has been causing a extremely loud
electronic BAZAAAAP! noise in my Sennheiser Lavalier mics. I have been
wondering on occasion lately, "Hey what the hell was that?", and now I have
found that the ridiculous electronic noise is invariably accompanied by a muted
cell phone going off.

So you guys might like to be specific when you ask people to turn their
cells off, some people will just mute them and if they have an offending model
it could screw up a take pretty damn well and leave you wondering what is wrong
with your gear! Doesn't sound anything like mic noise, it's digital pulse buzz
like I might imagine an "E-Bomb" might give off to knock down electronic
communications or something. Could something like that screw up a digital
mixer or interfere with a computer/DAW? Hey maybe that's the nefarious plan,
when all the Samsung cell phone go off at once Dr. Evil takes down all our
communications!

Or something...

Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Audioist / Fox News
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits




I find that it very rarely prints to tracks, and some phones induce noise
into the monitoring system simply when searching for cells or are
otherwise in a totally passive mode... little chirps or a series of tapping
sounds while no calls are incoming or notification messages being rec'd..
They just seem to inherently make noise. My five year old Nokia (on Verizon)
never induces any noise at all... even when ringing.

--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s DOT com
Morgan Audio Media Service
Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901
_______________________________________
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com

"David Morgan (MAMS)" wrote in message...


I find that it very rarely prints to tracks,

You know... I can't remember the last time I had one go off near a mic,
I'm pretty animate about getting them turned off duing tracking. It's
having them laying around the control room where I find they get into
the monitors but generally not onto tracks.

DM

David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:

My five year old Nokia (on Verizon)
never induces any noise at all... even when ringing.

Verizon is using CDMA over cellular frequencies.

AT&T phones are so predictably buzzy I can tell from the far end of a landline call when the other guy's phone is about to ring.