"S888Wheel" wrote in message
From: "Arny Krueger"
Date: 8/27/2004 4:19 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:
"JBorg" wrote in message
om
Pooh Bear wrote:
The 6L6 ( or whatever ) is still around in its original form since
it isn't capable of being significantly improved. It's stuck in a
time warp so to speak.
Agreed.
You believed that SS op-amp seems to be going strong after 30 yrs
while 6L6 tubes, otoh, are stuck in this "time warp" and so cannot
be significantly improve but yet, audiophiles continue to appreciate
and embrace these tubes by buying millions of them today.
Turntablists whose interests are making music far less so than
reproducing music, have created a short-term bulge in the sales of
turntables.
That doesn't account for sales in the high end.
I'll believe that as soon as you produce audited, high-end only sales
figures. I still remember the US Rega distributor when he was dancing in the
street because he was selling more than two dozen turntables a month.
Similarly, guitarists whose interests are making clearly music and
not reproducing music, have created a long-term but declining market
share for tubed MI equipment.
As opposed to the musicians who buy amps in the interest of
reproducing music? Is there some bizarre dichotomy in the guitar amp
world?
Thanks for demonstrating your support for people who base their home audio
systems on guitar amps.
Therefore, while we know that tubes are widely sold as specialty
items primarily for rock musicans, we know far less about the sales
of tubes to audiophiles.
Nah, you know little about it but these sales are hardly a secret to
those who wish to find out.
I'll believe that as soon as you produce audited, high-end only sales
figures.
In the Detroit area there are any number of music stores
selling tubed guitar amps. AFAIK there is only one small
hole-in-the-wall audio store that sells tubed equipment. It does not
exclusively sell tubed equipment and I don't know what proportion of
its miniscule sales are tubed equipment.
Sorry to hear that High end audio retail is in such a state of
disrepair in Detroit. Yet another reason not to live there.
I'll believe that as soon as you produce audited, high-end only sales
figures.
Is this difference you speak of above then reason enough not to
silence techies from continuously harassing ppl who cherish vacuum
tubes?
Ironically, it seems to be the people who cherish tubes who are the
major harassers around here.
That would be a rather highly biased opinion.
Google is my friend, and Dr. Richman is my ally in this quest.
For example, we a certain Dr Richman, arguably
currently the largest source of vile, harassing, off-topic posts on
RAO, who is a tube advocate.
Yes, your position is quite arguable.
Google is my friend.
Modern semiconductors are being improved all the time. The
consequent low demand for old ones makes them uneconomic to
continue manufacturing.
Exactly. It would be interesting to see an objective comparison of
the 6L6 tube to one of the more modern tube designs such as the
6C33. If the 6C33 is a better device, then why hasn't it driven the
6L6 off the market like improved semiconductor designs have driven
legacy semiconductors off the market? Does this mean that the tube
market is not about improved performance?
No it doesn't mean that.
Prove it, heck just provide a convincing argument.
You got your self encase in clouds way up there in the ozone layer
seemingly carried away with the word "improve". If
SS/semiconductor are so improve, won't you come down and tell why
ppl cuddle the tubes buying millions after 60 yrs.
Same reason people cuddle an old tobacco pipe or an old
walking-stick. Sentimentality.
No, it isn't the same reason.
Prove it, heck just provide a convincing argument.
In terms of audio sound, if semiconductor are being improve all the
time to make them sound better, why are they being improve all the
time to make them sound better?
In terms of amplifiers for high fidelity reproduction there have
been no sound quality improvements in them since the latter days of
tubes. All that has happened since the best tubed amps became
sonically transparent is that amplifiers in general have gotten more
reliable, common, smaller, cheaper, efficient, adaptable, etc.
OSAF
Vain attemp to dismiss a killer factual argument noted.
I'm afraid your premise falls at the first hurdle - unless you like
unimprovable old products.
But thats according to you with your favorite "improve" partially
paired with "old" products.
How do you account for those buying tubes by millions after 60 yrs?
(1) Sales to a different market than high fidelity audio
(2) Sentimentality
Note that Scott has zero rebuttal of any kind for this statement.