feeling bass - a coloration?

[david h.]

Is the bass that you feel from a speaker system a coloration? I might
argue that it is because only changing air pressure over time is
recorded on a sound medium, not tactile vibrations. Also, is bass only
felt because of vibrations from the enclosure coupling to the floor?
Are low frequency vibrations in the air perceptible on the skin or
chest cavity at less than marching band levels? Regardless if it is a
coloration, I would not enjoy many types of music as much without the
physical sensations.

[Arny Krueger]

"david h." > wrote in message
om

> Is the bass that you feel from a speaker system a coloration?

Not necessarily.

>I might
> argue that it is because only changing air pressure over time is
> recorded on a sound medium, not tactile vibrations. Also, is bass only
> felt because of vibrations from the enclosure coupling to the floor?

Not at all. Only a small portion of the bass energy of a speaker is coupled
from the enclosure to the floor.

> Are low frequency vibrations in the air perceptible on the skin or
> chest cavity at less than marching band levels?

Yes. Even a string quartet can produce noticeable tactile sensations.

>Regardless if it is a
> coloration, I would not enjoy many types of music as much without the
> physical sensations.

I guess you don't listen to much live music.

[Robertg Morein]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "david h." > wrote in message
> om
>[snip]
>
> I guess you don't listen to much live music.
>
A good answer, except for the last line, which is an unncessary put-down.

[Arny Krueger]

"Robertg Morein" > wrote in message

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "david h." > wrote in message
>> om
>> [snip]

>> I guess you don't listen to much live music.

> A good answer, except for the last line, which is an unnecessary
> put-down.

Only if you think that listening to live music somehow makes you a better
person than someone who doesn't. I think I've detected that attitude in your
past posts, Robert. Don't try to load me up with your baggage.

One day I woke up and realized that with all these people ranting and raving
and bragging about listening to live music, I'd been listening to live
music a minimum of once a week since a week or two after I was born. That's
almost 58 years. I have also regularly performed live music for several
years. I currently am routinely and intimately involved producing and
recording live music. Whatever!

[Robertg Morein]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Robertg Morein" > wrote in message
>
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> "david h." > wrote in message
> >> om
> >> [snip]
>
> >> I guess you don't listen to much live music.
>
> > A good answer, except for the last line, which is an unnecessary
> > put-down.
>
> Only if you think that listening to live music somehow makes you a better
> person than someone who doesn't. I think I've detected that attitude in
your
> past posts, Robert. Don't try to load me up with your baggage.
>
Don't make it complicated.
You stuck the guy, and you're trying to use complicated logic to excuse
yourself.
Insults are not complicated.

[Arny Krueger]

"Robertg Morein" > wrote in message

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Robertg Morein" > wrote in message
>>
>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> "david h." > wrote in message
>>>> om
>>>> [snip]
>>
>>>> I guess you don't listen to much live music.
>>
>>> A good answer, except for the last line, which is an unnecessary
>>> put-down.
>>
>> Only if you think that listening to live music somehow makes you a
>> better person than someone who doesn't. I think I've detected that
>> attitude in your past posts, Robert. Don't try to load me up with
>> your baggage.

> Don't make it complicated.

If you could only take your own advice, Rob.

> You stuck the guy,

Only in your mind, Rob. I read what he wrote and realized that he couldn't
be listening to a lot of live music, and just wanted to confirm that.

>and you're trying to use complicated logic to excuse yourself.

You are probably attacking me in a vain attempt to exorcise those personal
demons that keep bothering you, Rob. Last time it was your highly ironic
"Bad scientist" schtick. I thought maybe you had found some meds that were
helping you with your problems.

> Insults are not complicated.

Often they are perceived by busybodies who have agendas of their own, and
turn them into far more than they would be if just left alone.

[Sockpuppet Yustabe]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Robertg Morein" > wrote in message
>
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> "david h." > wrote in message
> >> om
> >> [snip]
>
> >> I guess you don't listen to much live music.
>
> > A good answer, except for the last line, which is an unnecessary
> > put-down.
>
> Only if you think that listening to live music somehow makes you a better
> person than someone who doesn't. I think I've detected that attitude in
your
> past posts, Robert. Don't try to load me up with your baggage.
>
> One day I woke up and realized that with all these people ranting and
raving
> and bragging about listening to live music, I'd been listening to live
> music a minimum of once a week since a week or two after I was born.
That's
> almost 58 years. I have also regularly performed live music for several
> years. I currently am routinely and intimately involved producing and
> recording live music. Whatever!
>
>

What instrument do you play?
Or do you sing?




----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
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[Robert Morein]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Robertg Morein" > wrote in message
>
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> "Robertg Morein" > wrote in message
> >>
> >>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> >>> ...
> >>>> "david h." > wrote in message
> >>>> om
> >>>> [snip]
> >>
> >>>> I guess you don't listen to much live music.
> >>
> >>> A good answer, except for the last line, which is an unnecessary
> >>> put-down.
> >>
> >> Only if you think that listening to live music somehow makes you a
> >> better person than someone who doesn't. I think I've detected that
> >> attitude in your past posts, Robert. Don't try to load me up with
> >> your baggage.
>
> > Don't make it complicated.
>
> If you could only take your own advice, Rob.
>
> > You stuck the guy,
>
> Only in your mind, Rob. I read what he wrote and realized that he couldn't
> be listening to a lot of live music, and just wanted to confirm that.
>
> >and you're trying to use complicated logic to excuse yourself.
>
> You are probably attacking me in a vain attempt to exorcise those personal
> demons that keep bothering you, Rob. Last time it was your highly ironic
> "Bad scientist" schtick. I thought maybe you had found some meds that were
> helping you with your problems.
>
> > Insults are not complicated.
>
> Often they are perceived by busybodies who have agendas of their own, and
> turn them into far more than they would be if just left alone.
>
No agenda here, Arny.
It would have been a perfect post, except for the last sentence.

[Arny Krueger]

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote in message

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...

>> One day I woke up and realized that with all these people ranting and
raving
>> and bragging about listening to live music, I'd been listening to
>> live music a minimum of once a week since a week or two after I was
>> born.

>> That's
>> almost 58 years. I have also regularly performed live music for
>> several years. I currently am routinely and intimately involved
>> producing and recording live music. Whatever!

> What instrument do you play?

Piano, once upon a time.

> Or do you sing?

Once upon a time.

[Robert Morein]

"david h." > wrote in message
om...
> Is the bass that you feel from a speaker system a coloration? I might
> argue that it is because only changing air pressure over time is
> recorded on a sound medium, not tactile vibrations. Also, is bass only
> felt because of vibrations from the enclosure coupling to the floor?
> Are low frequency vibrations in the air perceptible on the skin or
> chest cavity at less than marching band levels? Regardless if it is a
> coloration, I would not enjoy many types of music as much without the
> physical sensations.

David,
First, I would like to apologize for the insulting behavior of Arny
Krueger, who belittled your question.

The perception of bass is always colored, to a some degree, except in
the most carefully engineered listening environments. However, the low
frequency vibrations that are your interest are more related to the
recording technique. In jazz and popular recording, drums are frequently
"close miked", which means that the microphone, frequently a specialized
type, is placed within a foot of the instrument. When this is done, the
microphone picks up what is called the "near field".

The physical definition of the near field in audio is similar to that in
electrodynamics. It refers to the part of the pressure picked up by the
microphone that is not radiated further into the room, because close to the
instrument the air is still coupled to the diaphram of the drum. If you were
actually present at the performance, and the venue was a large room, and the
sound was not artificially reinforced, you would not hear the near field,
and most of the visceral impact would not be present. On the other hand, if
the venue was a small room, then it is likely you would experience the
visceral impact, as the drum would pressurize the entire room.

In physics, the difference between the near field and the far field is
modeled by the "retarded potentials", which take into account the finite
speed of propagation of a wave.

Once again, I apologize for Arny Krueger's uncouth remark.

Best regards,
Bob Morein

[MINe 109]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "Robertg Morein" > wrote in message
>
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> "david h." > wrote in message
> >> om
> >> [snip]
>
> >> I guess you don't listen to much live music.
>
> > A good answer, except for the last line, which is an unnecessary
> > put-down.
>
> Only if you think that listening to live music somehow makes you a better
> person than someone who doesn't. I think I've detected that attitude in your
> past posts, Robert. Don't try to load me up with your baggage.
>
> One day I woke up and realized that with all these people ranting and raving
> and bragging about listening to live music, I'd been listening to live
> music a minimum of once a week since a week or two after I was born. That's
> almost 58 years. I have also regularly performed live music for several
> years. I currently am routinely and intimately involved producing and
> recording live music. Whatever!

It's a worldwide symphony.

Stephen

[dave weil]

On Sat, 6 Mar 2004 01:43:49 -0500, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>"Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote in message

>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> ...
>
>>> One day I woke up and realized that with all these people ranting and
>raving
>>> and bragging about listening to live music, I'd been listening to
>>> live music a minimum of once a week since a week or two after I was
>>> born.
>
>>> That's
>>> almost 58 years. I have also regularly performed live music for
>>> several years. I currently am routinely and intimately involved
>>> producing and recording live music. Whatever!
>
>> What instrument do you play?
>
>Piano, once upon a time.
>
>> Or do you sing?
>
>Once upon a time.

So, what kind of music are you currently performing live?

[ScottW]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Robertg Morein" > wrote in message
>
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> "david h." > wrote in message
> >> om
> >> [snip]
>
> >> I guess you don't listen to much live music.
>
> > A good answer, except for the last line, which is an unnecessary
> > put-down.
>
> Only if you think that listening to live music somehow makes you a better
> person than someone who doesn't. I think I've detected that attitude in
your
> past posts, Robert. Don't try to load me up with your baggage.
>
> One day I woke up and realized that with all these people ranting and
raving
> and bragging about listening to live music, I'd been listening to live
> music a minimum of once a week since a week or two after I was born.
That's
> almost 58 years. I have also regularly performed live music for several
> years. I currently am routinely and intimately involved producing and
> recording live music. Whatever!

Since this final paragraph is clearly boasting, the inverse or putdown
of someone who isn't doing these things is clear.

ScottW

[Arny Krueger]

"dave weil" > wrote in message

> On Sat, 6 Mar 2004 01:43:49 -0500, "Arny Krueger" >
> wrote:
>
>> "Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote in message
>>
>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>
>>>> One day I woke up and realized that with all these people ranting
>>>> and raving and bragging about listening to live music, I'd been
>>>> listening to live music a minimum of once a week since a week or
>>>> two after I was born.
>>
>>>> That's
>>>> almost 58 years. I have also regularly performed live music for
>>>> several years. I currently am routinely and intimately involved
>>>> producing and recording live music. Whatever!
>>
>>> What instrument do you play?
>>
>> Piano, once upon a time.
>>
>>> Or do you sing?
>>
>> Once upon a time.
>
> So, what kind of music are you currently performing live?

Reading-disability-related inability to discern time frame from the phrase
"Once upon a time" noted.

[Arny Krueger]

"ScottW" > wrote in message
news:g2n2c.15969$id3.5950@fed1read01
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Robertg Morein" > wrote in message
>>
>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> "david h." > wrote in message
>>>> om
>>>> [snip]
>>
>>>> I guess you don't listen to much live music.
>>
>>> A good answer, except for the last line, which is an unnecessary
>>> put-down.
>>
>> Only if you think that listening to live music somehow makes you a
>> better person than someone who doesn't. I think I've detected that
>> attitude in your past posts, Robert. Don't try to load me up with
>> your baggage.
>>
>> One day I woke up and realized that with all these people ranting
>> and raving and bragging about listening to live music, I'd been
>> listening to live music a minimum of once a week since a week or two
>> after I was born. That's almost 58 years. I have also regularly
>> performed live music for several years. I currently am routinely and
>> intimately involved producing and recording live music. Whatever!
>
> Since this final paragraph is clearly boasting, the inverse or
> putdown of someone who isn't doing these things is clear.

Sorry about those feelings of inferiority that seem to be constantly
bedeviling you, Scott.

[dave weil]

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 10:24:26 -0600, dave weil >
wrote:

>>>> That's
>>>> almost 58 years. I have also regularly performed live music for
>>>> several years. I currently am routinely and intimately involved
>>>> producing and recording live music. Whatever!
>>
>>> What instrument do you play?
>>
>>Piano, once upon a time.
>>
>>> Or do you sing?
>>
>>Once upon a time.
>
>So, what kind of music are you currently performing live?

Sorry. Upon rereading your paragraph more carefully, I realize that
you aren't necessarily performing live music currently. I assume that
your reference to performing live music "for several years" ties in to
your previous statement about singing in the past. Correct?

[ScottW]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "ScottW" > wrote in message
> news:g2n2c.15969$id3.5950@fed1read01
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> "Robertg Morein" > wrote in message
> >>
> >>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> >>> ...
> >>>> "david h." > wrote in message
> >>>> om
> >>>> [snip]
> >>
> >>>> I guess you don't listen to much live music.
> >>
> >>> A good answer, except for the last line, which is an unnecessary
> >>> put-down.
> >>
> >> Only if you think that listening to live music somehow makes you a
> >> better person than someone who doesn't. I think I've detected that
> >> attitude in your past posts, Robert. Don't try to load me up with
> >> your baggage.
> >>
> >> One day I woke up and realized that with all these people ranting
> >> and raving and bragging about listening to live music, I'd been
> >> listening to live music a minimum of once a week since a week or two
> >> after I was born. That's almost 58 years. I have also regularly
> >> performed live music for several years. I currently am routinely and
> >> intimately involved producing and recording live music. Whatever!
> >
> > Since this final paragraph is clearly boasting, the inverse or
> > putdown of someone who isn't doing these things is clear.
>
> Sorry about those feelings of inferiority that seem to be constantly
> bedeviling you, Scott.

Nice try Arny. But upon further review you have proven Robert's point.
You're an ass. And you were an ass to a newb who has done
absolutely nothing to warrant it. No history no nothing.
Unless you did so because you were sure he would soon be
attacking you so you were just acting preemptively. But how could
you be assured of that, unless, subconsciously at least,
you know you're an ass and you will make people hate you
because you like it.

ScottW

[Arny Krueger]

"ScottW" > wrote in message
news:0Cn2c.15982$id3.9358@fed1read01
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "ScottW" > wrote in message
>> news:g2n2c.15969$id3.5950@fed1read01
>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> "Robertg Morein" > wrote in message
>>>>
>>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> "david h." > wrote in message
>>>>>> om
>>>>>> [snip]
>>>>
>>>>>> I guess you don't listen to much live music.
>>>>
>>>>> A good answer, except for the last line, which is an unnecessary
>>>>> put-down.
>>>>
>>>> Only if you think that listening to live music somehow makes you a
>>>> better person than someone who doesn't. I think I've detected that
>>>> attitude in your past posts, Robert. Don't try to load me up with
>>>> your baggage.
>>>>
>>>> One day I woke up and realized that with all these people ranting
>>>> and raving and bragging about listening to live music, I'd been
>>>> listening to live music a minimum of once a week since a week or
>>>> two after I was born. That's almost 58 years. I have also
>>>> regularly performed live music for several years. I currently am
>>>> routinely and intimately involved producing and recording live
>>>> music. Whatever!

>>> Since this final paragraph is clearly boasting, the inverse or
>>> putdown of someone who isn't doing these things is clear.

>> Sorry about those feelings of inferiority that seem to be constantly
>> bedeviling you, Scott.

> Nice try Arny.

No, its a painful indictment of you,. Scott.

> But upon further review you have proven Robert's
> point. You're an ass.

Scotty, shall I post just a small sample of the gratuitous insults that
you've directed towards me on RAO?

This is just another one, except this time it is a lame comeback, instead of
being gratuitous. However, your initial involvement in this issue was
gratuitous, wasn't it. I'm sure they are very pleased with you at the
Phillips-Yustabe-Middius busybody's school.

Scotty aren't you one of the ingrates that I've provided technical help to
repeatedly, but who wouldn't **** on me even if I were on fire?

[Marc Phillips]

Arny said:

>Scotty aren't you one of the ingrates that I've provided technical help to
>repeatedly, but who wouldn't **** on me even if I were on fire?

Thanks Krueger for admitting that you like that sort of thing.

Boon

[dave weil]

On Sat, 6 Mar 2004 11:48:03 -0500, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>"dave weil" > wrote in message

>> On Sat, 6 Mar 2004 01:43:49 -0500, "Arny Krueger" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> "Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote in message
>>>
>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>
>>>>> One day I woke up and realized that with all these people ranting
>>>>> and raving and bragging about listening to live music, I'd been
>>>>> listening to live music a minimum of once a week since a week or
>>>>> two after I was born.
>>>
>>>>> That's
>>>>> almost 58 years. I have also regularly performed live music for
>>>>> several years. I currently am routinely and intimately involved
>>>>> producing and recording live music. Whatever!
>>>
>>>> What instrument do you play?
>>>
>>> Piano, once upon a time.
>>>
>>>> Or do you sing?
>>>
>>> Once upon a time.
>>
>> So, what kind of music are you currently performing live?
>
>Reading-disability-related inability to discern time frame from the phrase
>"Once upon a time" noted.

Nice response to a simple question.

[normanstrong]

"david h." > wrote in message
om...
> Is the bass that you feel from a speaker system a coloration? I
might
> argue that it is because only changing air pressure over time is
> recorded on a sound medium, not tactile vibrations. Also, is bass
only
> felt because of vibrations from the enclosure coupling to the floor?
> Are low frequency vibrations in the air perceptible on the skin or
> chest cavity at less than marching band levels? Regardless if it is
a
> coloration, I would not enjoy many types of music as much without
the
> physical sensations.

For 2 sounds to have the same sound pressure level, the velocity must
be the same. Lower frequencies thus require higher peak excursions
to obtain the same SPL. Such excursions are easily felt as tactile
pressure on your body. That's why they make "bass shakers"; it's an
attempt to replace the effect of varying air pressure on your body,
which is hard to come by, with varying tactile vibration, which is
easier to produce.

Norm Strong

[Robertg Morein]

"George M. Middius" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Robert Morein said:
>
> > I would like to apologize for the insulting behavior of Arny Krueger
>
> Nobody has ever come out with it like that before.
>
> It's both revolting and a bit moving.
>
>
You've been giving him the forehand.
I'm giving him a backhand.

[Bruce J. Richman]

Robert Morein wrote:


>"George M. Middius" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>
>> Robert Morein said:
>>
>> > I would like to apologize for the insulting behavior of Arny Krueger
>>
>> Nobody has ever come out with it like that before.
>>
>> It's both revolting and a bit moving.
>>
>>
>You've been giving him the forehand.
>I'm giving him a backhand.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

2 Questions:

(1) How far can you guys hit a lob?

(2) Do the Laws of Gravity always apply?
:(






Bruce J. Richman

[ScottW]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "ScottW" > wrote in message
> news:0Cn2c.15982$id3.9358@fed1read01
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> "ScottW" > wrote in message
> >> news:g2n2c.15969$id3.5950@fed1read01
> >>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> >>> ...
> >>>> "Robertg Morein" > wrote in message
> >>>>
> >>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> >>>>> ...
> >>>>>> "david h." > wrote in message
> >>>>>> om
> >>>>>> [snip]
> >>>>
> >>>>>> I guess you don't listen to much live music.
> >>>>
> >>>>> A good answer, except for the last line, which is an unnecessary
> >>>>> put-down.
> >>>>
> >>>> Only if you think that listening to live music somehow makes you a
> >>>> better person than someone who doesn't. I think I've detected that
> >>>> attitude in your past posts, Robert. Don't try to load me up with
> >>>> your baggage.
> >>>>
> >>>> One day I woke up and realized that with all these people ranting
> >>>> and raving and bragging about listening to live music, I'd been
> >>>> listening to live music a minimum of once a week since a week or
> >>>> two after I was born. That's almost 58 years. I have also
> >>>> regularly performed live music for several years. I currently am
> >>>> routinely and intimately involved producing and recording live
> >>>> music. Whatever!
>
> >>> Since this final paragraph is clearly boasting, the inverse or
> >>> putdown of someone who isn't doing these things is clear.
>
> >> Sorry about those feelings of inferiority that seem to be constantly
> >> bedeviling you, Scott.
>
> > Nice try Arny.
>
> No, its a painful indictment of you,. Scott.
>
> > But upon further review you have proven Robert's
> > point. You're an ass.
>
> Scotty, shall I post just a small sample of the gratuitous insults that
> you've directed towards me on RAO?

Any insults I've tossed your way were well deserved.

I used to offer you well intended words of advice.
What did I get for that?

>
> This is just another one, except this time it is a lame comeback, instead
of
> being gratuitous. However, your initial involvement in this issue was
> gratuitous, wasn't it. I'm sure they are very pleased with you at the
> Phillips-Yustabe-Middius busybody's school.
>
> Scotty aren't you one of the ingrates that I've provided technical help
to
> repeatedly, but who wouldn't **** on me even if I were on fire?

Any occasion of technical help has been swamped by occasions of
insanity like the full circle you ran on dither and the J-test.
If we took about 6 months worth of posts on that subject
and sped 'em up, you come out looking like a dog snapping at it's
own tail.

ScottW

[Robertg Morein]

"Bruce J. Richman" > wrote in message
...
> Robert Morein wrote:
[snip]
>
> 2 Questions:
>
> (1) How far can you guys hit a lob?
>
> (2) Do the Laws of Gravity always apply?
> :(
>
Think "Pong."
You're in for the price of a quarter.

[S888Wheel]

>
> Any occasion of technical help has been swamped by occasions of
>insanity like the full circle you ran on dither and the J-test.
>If we took about 6 months worth of posts on that subject
>and sped 'em up, you come out looking like a dog snapping at it's
>own tail.
>
>ScottW
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

He blamed his technical incompetence over that issue on typos.

[david h.]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message >...
> "david h." > wrote in message
> om
>
> >Regardless if it is a
> > coloration, I would not enjoy many types of music as much without the
> > physical sensations.
>
> I guess you don't listen to much live music.

You are correct, I don't listen to much live music. That
is unfortunate for me because in the rare instances I
have attended a concert at the Kennedy Center here in D.C. it
was wonderful. Obviously, I don't know if the bass
I feel from my speakers on any given song would have been felt at the
recording studio or live event. Thus, my original questions.

[david h.]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message >...
> "david h." > wrote in message
> om...

> David,
> First, I would like to apologize for the insulting behavior of Arny
> Krueger, who belittled your question.
>
> The perception of bass is always colored, to a some degree, except in
> the most carefully engineered listening environments. However, the low
> frequency vibrations that are your interest are more related to the
> recording technique. In jazz and popular recording, drums are frequently
> "close miked", which means that the microphone, frequently a specialized
> type, is placed within a foot of the instrument. When this is done, the
> microphone picks up what is called the "near field".
>
> The physical definition of the near field in audio is similar to that in
> electrodynamics. It refers to the part of the pressure picked up by the
> microphone that is not radiated further into the room, because close to the
> instrument the air is still coupled to the diaphram of the drum. If you were
> actually present at the performance, and the venue was a large room, and the
> sound was not artificially reinforced, you would not hear the near field,
> and most of the visceral impact would not be present. On the other hand, if
> the venue was a small room, then it is likely you would experience the
> visceral impact, as the drum would pressurize the entire room.
>
> In physics, the difference between the near field and the far field is
> modeled by the "retarded potentials", which take into account the finite
> speed of propagation of a wave.
>
> Once again, I apologize for Arny Krueger's uncouth remark.
>
> Best regards,
> Bob Morein

Thank you, Mr. Morein. I was asking because of my interest in the
way sound is produced by the HyperSonic Sound System (atcsd.com).
Since it uses ultrasonic frequencies to produce audible ones, I
was wondering if the bass it produces would be felt as it is
by a conventional loudspeaker. If the bass could not be felt, I was
curious to know if that would be similar to listening to headphones,
but with a proper soundstage.

[Sockpuppet Yustabe]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
>
> Scotty aren't you one of the ingrates that I've provided technical help to
> repeatedly, but who wouldn't **** on me even if I were on fire?
>

There's one way to find out.
Anybody got a light?




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[Arny Krueger]

"ScottW" > wrote in message
news:YWr2c.16012$id3.1826@fed1read01
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...

>> This is just another one, except this time it is a lame comeback,
>> instead of being gratuitous. However, your initial involvement in
>> this issue was gratuitous, wasn't it. I'm sure they are very pleased
>> with you at the Phillips-Yustabe-Middius busybody's school.

>> Scotty aren't you one of the ingrates that I've provided technical
>> help to repeatedly, but who wouldn't **** on me even if I were on
>> fire?

> Any occasion of technical help has been swamped by occasions of
> insanity like the full circle you ran on dither and the J-test.

You're technically incompetent to comment on this discussion, or any
discussion with any technical depth, Scotty.

You're just Marc Phillips with a pocket protector and a pickup truck.

[Arny Krueger]

"david h." > wrote in message
om
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> >...
>> "david h." > wrote in message
>> om
>>
>>> Regardless if it is a
>>> coloration, I would not enjoy many types of music as much without
>>> the physical sensations.
>>
>> I guess you don't listen to much live music.

> You are correct, I don't listen to much live music.

Please correct that at your earliest convenience.

>That is unfortunate for me because in the rare instances I
> have attended a concert at the Kennedy Center here in D.C. it
> was wonderful.

Never did that, but I have been to Lincoln Center in NY.

> Obviously, I don't know if the bass
> I feel from my speakers on any given song would have been felt at the
> recording studio or live event.

Probably it was felt more than you can imagine. Subsonics and bass are one
thing that most stereos make go away or trash, but somehow very few people
manage to write about it.

> Thus, my original questions.

You got to get some face time with live music. Move mountains.

[Robertg Morein]

"david h." > wrote in message
om...
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>...
> > "david h." > wrote in message
> > om...
>
> > David,
[snip]
> >
> > Once again, I apologize for Arny Krueger's uncouth remark.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Bob Morein
>
> Thank you, Mr. Morein. I was asking because of my interest in the
> way sound is produced by the HyperSonic Sound System (atcsd.com).
> Since it uses ultrasonic frequencies to produce audible ones, I
> was wondering if the bass it produces would be felt as it is
> by a conventional loudspeaker. If the bass could not be felt, I was
> curious to know if that would be similar to listening to headphones,
> but with a proper soundstage.

The physics in that system is so complex that I am afraid we have to reply
on the reports of users.

[Arny Krueger]

"david h." > wrote in message
om


> Thank you, Mr. Morein.

Morien is well known for his vendettas and he has a long-term vendetta going
against me. He is also quite deceptive and self-deceptive. I seriously doubt
that he will ever be a productive person - permanently damaged goods. He
comes from a wealthy family and has long been a "professional college
student", which should tell you everything you need to know.

>I was asking because of my interest in the
> way sound is produced by the HyperSonic Sound System (atcsd.com).
> Since it uses ultrasonic frequencies to produce audible ones, I
> was wondering if the bass it produces would be felt as it is
> by a conventional loudspeaker. If the bass could not be felt, I was
> curious to know if that would be similar to listening to headphones,
> but with a proper soundstage.

Good point. I don't think that anybody is seriously proposing HSS as a
substitute for a large scale high quality audio system. Instead it is being
proposed as a problem solver in situations where pinpoint distribution of
sound is desired.

I see that http://www.atcsd.com/index.html has on their home page a
product called "Pure Bass".

"PureBass is the first cone based, extended range sub-woofer available to
ATC licensees with superior sound quality, output capability and higher
crossover frequencies than conventional sub-woofers."

I think that gives every clue that is needed.

[Robert Morein]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "david h." > wrote in message
> om
>
>
> > Thank you, Mr. Morein.
>
> Morien is well known for his vendettas and he has a long-term vendetta
going
> against me. He is also quite deceptive and self-deceptive. I seriously
doubt
> that he will ever be a productive person - permanently damaged goods. He
> comes from a wealthy family and has long been a "professional college
> student", which should tell you everything you need to know.
>
Arny, this is the kind of post that gets you in trouble.
I apologized for your behavior, which embarasses us all.
When you have a tantrum, it would be best for you to go away quietly and
come back when you regain control of yourself.

Apologies to the public at large, on behalf of Arny Krueger.

[S888Wheel]

>I seriously doubt
>that he will ever be a productive person - permanently damaged goods. He
>comes from a wealthy family and has long been a "professional college
>student", which should tell you everything you need to know.
>

Jealous? It is ironic that a chronic underachiever would hypocritically make
such attacks on another person's productivity. How productive could someone
whose life is lived on Usenet possibly be?

[Robert Morein]

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > Scotty aren't you one of the ingrates that I've provided technical help
to
> > repeatedly, but who wouldn't **** on me even if I were on fire?
> >
>
> There's one way to find out.
> Anybody got a light?
>
I don't smoke, but I'll provide the fluid :).

[Bruce J. Richman]

Art Sackman wrote:


>"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> Scotty aren't you one of the ingrates that I've provided technical help to
>> repeatedly, but who wouldn't **** on me even if I were on fire?
>>
>
>There's one way to find out.
>Anybody got a light?
>
>
>
>
>----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
>News==----
>http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000
>Newsgroups
>---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption
>=---
>
>
>
>
>
>

Thanks, Sackman, for admitting that you favor empirical research and hypothesis
testing.



Bruce J. Richman

[ScottW]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "ScottW" > wrote in message
> news:YWr2c.16012$id3.1826@fed1read01
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> > ...
>
> >> This is just another one, except this time it is a lame comeback,
> >> instead of being gratuitous. However, your initial involvement in
> >> this issue was gratuitous, wasn't it. I'm sure they are very pleased
> >> with you at the Phillips-Yustabe-Middius busybody's school.
>
> >> Scotty aren't you one of the ingrates that I've provided technical
> >> help to repeatedly, but who wouldn't **** on me even if I were on
> >> fire?
>
> > Any occasion of technical help has been swamped by occasions of
> > insanity like the full circle you ran on dither and the J-test.
>
> You're technically incompetent to comment on this discussion, or any
> discussion with any technical depth, Scotty.

How much technical competence is required to know you
changed your story and refuse to admit it?

How much technical competence is required to know that
you are deeply jealous of anyone in the audio world of
significant accomplishment?

How much technical competence is required to know that
comparing digital samples of amplifiers through a PC or
another masking amplifier is a stupid idea?

How much technical competence is required to know that
you would rather lie and obfuscsate with personal attacks
before admitting a mistake?

How much technical competence is required to know that
your life is pathetically centered on usenet?

How much technical competence is required to know that
your degree is meaningless?

ScottW

[Sockpuppet Yustabe]

"Bruce J. Richman" > wrote in message
...
> Art Sackman wrote:
>
>
> >"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>
> >> Scotty aren't you one of the ingrates that I've provided technical help
to
> >> repeatedly, but who wouldn't **** on me even if I were on fire?
> >>
> >
> >There's one way to find out.
> >Anybody got a light?
> >
> >

> >
>
> Thanks, Sackman, for admitting that you favor empirical research and
hypothesis
> testing.
>


score!




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[Arny Krueger]

"ScottW" > wrote in message
news:HsI2c.16159$id3.4582@fed1read01

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...

>> "ScottW" > wrote in message
>> news:YWr2c.16012$id3.1826@fed1read01

>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>> ...

>>>> This is just another one, except this time it is a lame comeback,
>>>> instead of being gratuitous. However, your initial involvement in
>>>> this issue was gratuitous, wasn't it. I'm sure they are very
>>>> pleased with you at the Phillips-Yustabe-Middius busybody's school.

>>>> Scotty aren't you one of the ingrates that I've provided technical
>>>> help to repeatedly, but who wouldn't **** on me even if I were on
>>>> fire?

>>> Any occasion of technical help has been swamped by occasions of
>>> insanity like the full circle you ran on dither and the J-test.

Since you don't understand dither or the J-test Scotty, how can you presume
to comment on these topics?

>> You're technically incompetent to comment on this discussion, or any
>> discussion with any technical depth, Scotty.

> How much technical competence is required to know you
> changed your story and refuse to admit it?

More than you've got Scotty, because in order to know that I'd changed my
story you'd have to understand my story. My technical discussions shoot
over your head about the time I mention Ohm's law.

> How much technical competence is required to know that
> you are deeply jealous of anyone in the audio world of
> significant accomplishment?

More than you've got Scotty, because it takes some technical competence to
know what constitutes a significant accomplishment. Furthermore you raising
the issue of significant accomplishments only damns yourself because you
ain't got any.

> How much technical competence is required to know that
> comparing digital samples of amplifiers through a PC or
> another masking amplifier is a stupid idea?

More than you've got Scotty, because it takes some technical competence to
know what constitutes a stupid idea. You've also exposed your ignorance
Scotty because we know you accept the idea of listening to amplifiers
through loudspeakers and it's no secret that it is entirely feasible for a
PC or another amplifier to have less masking than a speaker.

> How much technical competence is required to know that
> you would rather lie and obfuscsate with personal attacks
> before admitting a mistake?

It takes more technical competence than you've got Scotty, because it takes
some technical competence to know what constitutes a mistake. Heck, you
can't even spell obfuscate and you're too arrogant to use a spell-checker.
You're so technically incompetent that it's dangerous to answer your
technical questions because you don't understand the meaning of many of the
technical terms you throw around.

> How much technical competence is required to know that
> your life is pathetically centered on Usenet?

More than you've got Scotty, because my life is not centered on Usenet.

> How much technical competence is required to know that
> your degree is meaningless?

Given that I received my degree more than 30 years ago, you're beating a
dead horse. My 30-year-old degree was meaningless within 5 years of when I
received it. What of it?

[ScottW]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...

I know you get confused dealing with more than a couple issues
simultaneously so I'll simplify this thread to two.

>
> > How much technical competence is required to know that
> > comparing digital samples of amplifiers through a PC or
> > another masking amplifier is a stupid idea?
>
> More than you've got Scotty, because it takes some technical competence
to
> know what constitutes a stupid idea. You've also exposed your ignorance
> Scotty because we know you accept the idea of listening to amplifiers
> through loudspeakers and it's no secret that it is entirely feasible for
a
> PC or another amplifier to have less masking than a speaker.

Thanks for admitting that PCABX of amplifiers is stupid
because the ultimate listening result is masked by a second
amplifier AND speaker.
It was and forever will be one of the real snake oils of the
audio world.


>
> > How much technical competence is required to know that
> > you would rather lie and obfuscsate with personal attacks
> > before admitting a mistake?
>
> > How much technical competence is required to know that
> > your degree is meaningless?
>
> Given that I received my degree more than 30 years ago, you're beating a
> dead horse. My 30-year-old degree was meaningless within 5 years of when
I
> received it. What of it?

In 5 years your degree was meaningless? What school was that?
Meanwhile my degree from Illinois still opens doors of opportunity
for me 20+ years later.
Here's how Illinois stands in the ranks.

<http://www.engr.uiuc.edu/publications/engineering_research/2002/selected_r
ankings.html>

Where's your alma mater rank?

ScottW

[Mikermckelvy]

>From: "Robert Morein"
>Date: 3/6/04 9:40 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: >

>"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
>> "david h." > wrote in message
>> om
>>
>>
>> > Thank you, Mr. Morein.
>>
>> Morien is well known for his vendettas and he has a long-term vendetta
>going
>> against me. He is also quite deceptive and self-deceptive. I seriously
>doubt
>> that he will ever be a productive person - permanently damaged goods. He
>> comes from a wealthy family and has long been a "professional college
>> student", which should tell you everything you need to know.
>>
>Arny, this is the kind of post that gets you in trouble.
>I apologized for your behavior, which embarasses us all.

Speak only for yourself dip****.

You can't apologize for somebody else's actions.

>When you have a tantrum, it would be best for you to go away quietly and
>come back when you regain control of yourself.
>
Irony?

>Apologies to the public at large, on behalf of Arny Krueger.
>
**** off. How big is that telescope?

[Robert Morein]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Robertg Morein" > wrote in message
>
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> "Robertg Morein" > wrote in message
> >>
> >>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> >>> ...
> >>>> "david h." > wrote in message
> >>>> om
> >>>> [snip]
> >>
> >>>> I guess you don't listen to much live music.
> >>
> >>> A good answer, except for the last line, which is an unnecessary
> >>> put-down.
> >>
> >> Only if you think that listening to live music somehow makes you a
> >> better person than someone who doesn't. I think I've detected that
> >> attitude in your past posts, Robert. Don't try to load me up with
> >> your baggage.
>
> > Don't make it complicated.
>
> If you could only take your own advice, Rob.
>
> > You stuck the guy,
>
> Only in your mind, Rob. I read what he wrote and realized that he couldn't
> be listening to a lot of live music, and just wanted to confirm that.
>
> >and you're trying to use complicated logic to excuse yourself.
>
> You are probably attacking me in a vain attempt to exorcise those personal
> demons that keep bothering you, Rob. Last time it was your highly ironic
> "Bad scientist" schtick. I thought maybe you had found some meds that were
> helping you with your problems.
>
Arny, I have been needling you pretty hard.
However, the above post is a forgery.