What is the most popular high-end speaker brand?

[Robert Morein]

A while back, I may have heard that Magnepans were owned by a surprising
percentage of Stereophile subscribers, on the order of 20%.

[Arny Krueger]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message

> A while back, I may have heard that Magnepans were owned by a
> surprising percentage of Stereophile subscribers, on the order of 20%.

But are Magnepans truly "High End"?

[Marc Phillips]

Arny said:

>"Robert Morein" > wrote in message

>> A while back, I may have heard that Magnepans were owned by a
>> surprising percentage of Stereophile subscribers, on the order of 20%.
>
>But are Magnepans truly "High End"?

Why wouldn't they be?

Boon

[MINe 109]

In article >,
George M. Middius > wrote:

> Marc Phillips said to Turd-on-a-Rope:
>
> > >But are Magnepans truly "High End"?
>
> > Why wouldn't they be?
>
> Presumably because they're bi-wired, which means, as every 'borg
> knows, that they're full of snake oil or anti-Kroo dust or something.

And ribbons are so last century.

If Quad ESL 63s are "mid-eighties," why do they call them "63s"?

Stephen

[S888Wheel]

>
>But are Magnepans truly "High End"?

Unlike your speakers they are, if one is talking about their top models

[Bruce J. Richman]

George M. Middius wrote:


>Marc Phillips said to Turd-on-a-Rope:
>
>> >But are Magnepans truly "High End"?
>
>> Why wouldn't they be?
>
>Presumably because they're bi-wired, which means, as every 'borg
>knows, that they're full of snake oil or anti-Kroo dust or something.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Also, you can never trust the sound of speakers that don't 3-sided wooden
cabinets !!!

Besides, numerous audio reviewers have had the unmitigated gall to engage in
heresy by publishing quite positive subjective reviews about these speakers.

As if subjective reviews had any place in a "scientific" field such as audio.
:(

LOT'S !!!!



Bruce J. Richman

[Arny Krueger]

"Marc Phillips" > wrote in message

> Arny said:
>
>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>>
>>> A while back, I may have heard that Magnepans were owned by a
>>> surprising percentage of Stereophile subscribers, on the order of
>>> 20%.
>>
>> But are Magnepans truly "High End"?

> Why wouldn't they be?

Too practical

Too reliable

Not nearly costly enough.

Sold mail order.

[Arny Krueger]

"S888Wheel" > wrote in message

>> But are Magnepans truly "High End"?
>
> Unlike your speakers they are, if one is talking about their top
> models

Thanks for admitting that Magnepan is not a high end brand.

[S888Wheel]

>>> But are Magnepans truly "High End"?
>>
>> Unlike your speakers they are, if one is talking about their top
>> models
>
>Thanks for admitting that Magnepan is not a high end brand.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Thanks for once again showing your complete lack of intelegence.

[Robert Morein]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Marc Phillips" > wrote in message
>
> > Arny said:
> >
> >> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> >>
> >>> A while back, I may have heard that Magnepans were owned by a
> >>> surprising percentage of Stereophile subscribers, on the order of
> >>> 20%.
> >>
> >> But are Magnepans truly "High End"?
>
> > Why wouldn't they be?
>
> Too practical
>
> Too reliable
>
I have never heard anyone say they were too reliable.
Ten years ago, they were known for separation of the wires from the
membrane, which limited the lifespan of a panel to three years or so.
I heard that the manufacturing process improved, but I don't know what the
result, in terms of improved reliability, is.

[dave weil]

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 12:21:26 -0500, "Robert Morein"
> wrote:

>
>"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
>> "Marc Phillips" > wrote in message
>>
>> > Arny said:
>> >
>> >> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>> >>
>> >>> A while back, I may have heard that Magnepans were owned by a
>> >>> surprising percentage of Stereophile subscribers, on the order of
>> >>> 20%.
>> >>
>> >> But are Magnepans truly "High End"?
>>
>> > Why wouldn't they be?
>>
>> Too practical
>>
>> Too reliable
>>
>I have never heard anyone say they were too reliable.
>Ten years ago, they were known for separation of the wires from the
>membrane, which limited the lifespan of a panel to three years or so.
>I heard that the manufacturing process improved, but I don't know what the
>result, in terms of improved reliability, is.

This delamination is indeed fairly common. I have a pair of MG-1s that
has this problem in one area of one panel (they had this problem when
I bought them at a steal of a price). I've read about quick fixes of
injecting the appropriate adhesive at the appropriate points, but I
don't know the particulars. Fortunately, Magnapan will replace the
panels for all of their speakers to bring them back to factory specs
(I *think* that they'll do all of their models). It ain't cheap, but
for the MG-1s, I think it's about $450 including shipping. It's
obviously not as easy or cheap as replacing conventional drivers, but
at least Magnapan still supports their older models by allowing the
speakers to perform virtually as they did when they came from the
factory (of course, packing Maggies for shipment is a bit of a pain as
well). Plus, all you need for a DIY fix is a hypodermic needle, the
appropriate glue and a little savvy. The only reason I haven't done it
is that I haven't had the requisite room to employ the speakers, so I
haven't bothered to really investigate the particulars.

This brings up another subcategory of high end that can be important,
and that's the tendency to support their discontinued models.
Obviously this is an ancillary definition.

I count the Tympani (sp?) as the first "high end" speaker system I
ever heard and the one that really propelled my interest in seeking
out better sound. And yes, they were definitely "high end" speakers by
any definition as they were among the most expensive speakers you
could buy at the time. I remember hearing ELP's "from the Beginning"
on a pair at a local high-end shop and the "transparency" was
astounding. Shortly after that, I met someone who actually had a pair
in his home system and I spent a lot of time enjoying the sound (I
think he was using Macintosh amplification).

Oh, BTW, I'm really enjoying my "new" TASCAM 122 cassette deck. This
should make Arnold mad.

[Acne Krooker]

(S888Wheel) wrote
>>>> But are Magnepans truly "High End"?
>>>
>>> Unlike your speakers they are, if one is talking about their top
>>> models
>>
>>Thanks for admitting that Magnepan is not a high end brand.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>Thanks for once again showing your complete lack of intelegence.
>
Thanks sockpuppet wheel for showing us you're inability to use a spell
checker Weil that which makes me look smarter than you LoT;"s ! ;-)

[Arny Krueger]

"dave weil" > wrote in message


> Oh, BTW, I'm really enjoying my "new" TASCAM 122 cassette deck. This
> should make Arnold mad.

Why?

[dave weil]

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 13:06:56 -0500, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>"dave weil" > wrote in message

>
>> Oh, BTW, I'm really enjoying my "new" TASCAM 122 cassette deck. This
>> should make Arnold mad.
>
>Why?

Because it's obviously wasted on someone like me. Evil "subjectivists"
shouldn't be allowed to get their hands on stuff like this.

[S888Wheel]

>
>
>Oh, BTW, I'm really enjoying my "new" TASCAM 122 cassette deck. This
>should make Arnold mad.
>

Any time you enjoy anything it makes him mad.

[Arny Krueger]

"dave weil" > wrote in message

> On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 13:06:56 -0500, "Arny Krueger" >
> wrote:
>
>> "dave weil" > wrote in message
>>
>>
>>> Oh, BTW, I'm really enjoying my "new" TASCAM 122 cassette deck. This
>>> should make Arnold mad.
>>
>> Why?
>
> Because it's obviously wasted on someone like me. Evil "subjectivists"
> shouldn't be allowed to get their hands on stuff like this.

Given that by modern standards there is no such thing as a good-sounding
cassette deck, this would be another example of your delusional behavior,
Weil.

[dave weil]

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 13:36:30 -0500, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>"dave weil" > wrote in message

>> On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 13:06:56 -0500, "Arny Krueger" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> "dave weil" > wrote in message
>>>
>>>
>>>> Oh, BTW, I'm really enjoying my "new" TASCAM 122 cassette deck. This
>>>> should make Arnold mad.
>>>
>>> Why?
>>
>> Because it's obviously wasted on someone like me. Evil "subjectivists"
>> shouldn't be allowed to get their hands on stuff like this.
>
>Given that by modern standards there is no such thing as a good-sounding
>cassette deck, this would be another example of your delusional behavior,
>Weil.

I guess I'll need to play my cassettes in the hair dryer then.

[Joseph Oberlander]

Arny Krueger wrote:

> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>
>
>>A while back, I may have heard that Magnepans were owned by a
>>surprising percentage of Stereophile subscribers, on the order of 20%.
>
>
> But are Magnepans truly "High End"?

That's a bit of the mystique - they sound like high-end" speakers,
yet are relatively low-priced. It's not surprizing that people
who are frugal with their money,(despite what they recommend)
would seek a lower cost alternative like this.

It's the old "So what car do you drive?" aimed at the car salesman.
Most of the time it's not the overpriced crap they are selling. :)

[Joseph Oberlander]

Arny Krueger wrote:


>>>But are Magnepans truly "High End"?
>
>
>>Why wouldn't they be?
>
>
> Too practical
>
> Too reliable
>
> Not nearly costly enough.
>
> Sold mail order.

Lol. :) That just about sums up the "high end" market.

[Arny Krueger]

"Le Artiste" > wrote in message

> "Arny Krueger" emitted :
>
>>> Oh, BTW, I'm really enjoying my "new" TASCAM 122 cassette deck. This
>>> should make Arnold mad.
>>
>> Why?
>
> Because it's a broadcast and production industry standard? ;-)

No, because he's trolling.

[Robert Morein]

"dave weil" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 12:21:26 -0500, "Robert Morein"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> "Marc Phillips" > wrote in message
> >>
> >> > Arny said:
> >> >
> >> >> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> >> >>
> >> >>> A while back, I may have heard that Magnepans were owned by a
> >> >>> surprising percentage of Stereophile subscribers, on the order of
> >> >>> 20%.
> >> >>
> >> >> But are Magnepans truly "High End"?
> >>
> >> > Why wouldn't they be?
> >>
> >> Too practical
> >>
> >> Too reliable
> >>
> >I have never heard anyone say they were too reliable.
> >Ten years ago, they were known for separation of the wires from the
> >membrane, which limited the lifespan of a panel to three years or so.
> >I heard that the manufacturing process improved, but I don't know what
the
> >result, in terms of improved reliability, is.
>
> This delamination is indeed fairly common. I have a pair of MG-1s that
> has this problem in one area of one panel (they had this problem when
> I bought them at a steal of a price). I've read about quick fixes of
> injecting the appropriate adhesive at the appropriate points, but I
> don't know the particulars.

You find them listenable inspite?
Is there any evidence that the problem has been fixed by a change in the
manufacturing process?

BTW, I have a set of Acoustat 2+2's, which while different in execution, are
similar in concept.
Since the Acoustat membranes have no wires, they do not suffer from
delamination.
The membranes are known to sag, but apparently, a hair dryer is enough to
tighten them up again.

[Arny Krueger]

"dave weil" > wrote in message

> On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 13:36:30 -0500, "Arny Krueger" >
> wrote:
>
>> "dave weil" > wrote in message
>>
>>> On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 13:06:56 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> "dave weil" > wrote in message
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Oh, BTW, I'm really enjoying my "new" TASCAM 122 cassette deck.
>>>>> This should make Arnold mad.
>>>>
>>>> Why?
>>>
>>> Because it's obviously wasted on someone like me. Evil
>>> "subjectivists" shouldn't be allowed to get their hands on stuff
>>> like this.
>>
>> Given that by modern standards there is no such thing as a
>> good-sounding cassette deck, this would be another example of your
>> delusional behavior, Weil.
>
> I guess I'll need to play my cassettes in the hair dryer then.

Morein's recent post suggests that this may tighten them up, if they're
loose...

[dave weil]

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 16:22:36 -0500, "Robert Morein"
> wrote:

>
>"dave weil" > wrote in message
...
>> On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 12:21:26 -0500, "Robert Morein"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >> "Marc Phillips" > wrote in message
>> >>
>> >> > Arny said:
>> >> >
>> >> >> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> A while back, I may have heard that Magnepans were owned by a
>> >> >>> surprising percentage of Stereophile subscribers, on the order of
>> >> >>> 20%.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> But are Magnepans truly "High End"?
>> >>
>> >> > Why wouldn't they be?
>> >>
>> >> Too practical
>> >>
>> >> Too reliable
>> >>
>> >I have never heard anyone say they were too reliable.
>> >Ten years ago, they were known for separation of the wires from the
>> >membrane, which limited the lifespan of a panel to three years or so.
>> >I heard that the manufacturing process improved, but I don't know what
>the
>> >result, in terms of improved reliability, is.
>>
>> This delamination is indeed fairly common. I have a pair of MG-1s that
>> has this problem in one area of one panel (they had this problem when
>> I bought them at a steal of a price). I've read about quick fixes of
>> injecting the appropriate adhesive at the appropriate points, but I
>> don't know the particulars.
>
>You find them listenable inspite?

They're really not my cup 'o tea (the MG1s I mean). They aren't bad,
but this particular speaker just doesn't have the presence that I've
come to expect from better Maggies. That's another reason I haven't
been in a huge hurry to fix them up.

>Is there any evidence that the problem has been fixed by a change in the
>manufacturing process?

I think it depends on the model that you buy. Ribbon tweeters are
pretty cool. I don't think that mine even has quasi-ribbons.

>BTW, I have a set of Acoustat 2+2's, which while different in execution, are
>similar in concept.
>Since the Acoustat membranes have no wires, they do not suffer from
>delamination.
>The membranes are known to sag, but apparently, a hair dryer is enough to
>tighten them up again.

IIRC, a hair dryer is a component that I forgot to mention in the
procedure for fixing the Maggies. I think that sagging was the main
problem with the Tympanies.

[dave weil]

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 16:27:19 -0500, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>"dave weil" > wrote in message

>> On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 13:36:30 -0500, "Arny Krueger" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> "dave weil" > wrote in message
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 13:06:56 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "dave weil" > wrote in message
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh, BTW, I'm really enjoying my "new" TASCAM 122 cassette deck.
>>>>>> This should make Arnold mad.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why?
>>>>
>>>> Because it's obviously wasted on someone like me. Evil
>>>> "subjectivists" shouldn't be allowed to get their hands on stuff
>>>> like this.
>>>
>>> Given that by modern standards there is no such thing as a
>>> good-sounding cassette deck, this would be another example of your
>>> delusional behavior, Weil.
>>
>> I guess I'll need to play my cassettes in the hair dryer then.
>
>Morein's recent post suggests that this may tighten them up, if they're
>loose...

Does not.

Now, I'm waiting for you to inform us how to hook up the hair dryer to
my dbx 400X.

[Robert Morein]

"Joseph Oberlander" > wrote in message
link.net...
>
>
> Arny Krueger wrote:
>
> > "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> >
> >
> >>A while back, I may have heard that Magnepans were owned by a
> >>surprising percentage of Stereophile subscribers, on the order of 20%.
> >
> >
> > But are Magnepans truly "High End"?
>
> That's a bit of the mystique - they sound like high-end" speakers,
> yet are relatively low-priced. It's not surprizing that people
> who are frugal with their money,(despite what they recommend)
> would seek a lower cost alternative like this.
>
> It's the old "So what car do you drive?" aimed at the car salesman.
> Most of the time it's not the overpriced crap they are selling. :)
>
Actually, Stereophile reviews give a lot of evidence that high end boutique
speakers usually have less regular response and dispersion than many less
expensive offerings.

Companies like Kef, Koss, Thiel, Dunlavy, various brands under the HK
umbrella such as AR, and so forth, have given evidence of a great deal of
engineering work, with extensive use of scientific thinking from inception
to the final adjustments for anticipated listening environment.

It seems that many (but not all) offerings above the moderate level
emphasize subjective appeal over accuracy. While this is a perfectly
acceptable goal, the naive buyer may think he his getting technical
perfection, when in fact, he is getting something else.

For the small maker, there is little upfront cost in use of expensive
drivers. But it is problematic for a small maker to integrate very fine
drivers through months or years of cabinet and crossover design and testing.

There have also been many speakers that have been engineered for technical
perfection -- as the engineers know it -- and have seemed highly
unsatisfactory to my ears. These include the PSB's, and practically
everything else that came out of Canada's national facility.

Occasionally, a small maker produces a speaker that sometimes becomes a
legend.
The one instance that comes to mind are the Spicas.

I have a set of very ordinary looking 10" bookshelves of completely
anonymous manufacture in my living room that give the best sound in the
house. I actually discovered these waiting for the trash at the curb. My
curiousity was piqued by what appears to be a Morel tweeter, surrounded by
felt. The drivers were pronounced by Bill Legall, who refoamed them, to look
like the MicroAcoustics driver. The crossover is 1st order.

I drive them with an Acoustat TNT-200 amp. The speaker cables are Radio
Shack zipcord.
The experience of listening to them produces severe cognitive dissonance in
audiophiles.

[Sockpuppet Yustabe]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...

> I actually discovered these waiting for the trash at the curb.

What day do they deliver your trash?




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[ScottW]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...
>
> I have a set of very ordinary looking 10" bookshelves of completely
> anonymous manufacture in my living room that give the best sound in the
> house.

What else is in the house that sounds worse?

I have a pair of original large Advents that I enjoy very much.
I listened to a pair of PSB Stratus Golds once in a shop
and I couldn't get over how much they reminded me of my Advents.
I was looking for something more dynamic at the time and
ended up with a pair of Legacy Focus.
From there I went to Quads (talk about a dynamic shift :) )
and now use the Focus for home theatre. I am surprised
how good the Focus sound driven by an inexpensive
Pioneer receiver.
For me, high end is what sounds good to you.

ScottW

[Arny Krueger]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message



> various brands under the HK umbrella such as AR,

AR is not part of Harman, it has long been part of Recoton. Recoton went
Chapter 11 April of last year.

http://www.defaultrisk.com/news_2003_q2.htm

The AR accessories business is now part of Thomson

http://www.thomson.net/gb/06/c03/030604.htm

NHT is now a Rockford brand:

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/news/1202/

The AR audio components business is now owned by Audiovox

http://biz.yahoo.com/e/031015/voxx10-q.html

[Robert Morein]

"ScottW" > wrote in message
news:kg90c.22114$aZ3.310@fed1read04...
>
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > I have a set of very ordinary looking 10" bookshelves of completely
> > anonymous manufacture in my living room that give the best sound in the
> > house.
>
> What else is in the house that sounds worse?
>
Kef Reference III's, Polk Lsi15's, NEAR 50ME's, Acoustat 2+2's., Spica
TC-50's.

They all sound very good.

However, there is something astonishing about the livingroom setup. While no
claim for accurate reproduction is made, the sound is sumptuous, like a
meal at a fine restaraunt. For all instrumental music, the presentation is
remarkable. It does fall down a bit on vocals, due to the large woofer, but
not as much as one might expect.

[Marc Phillips]

S888Wheel said:

>>
>>But are Magnepans truly "High End"?
>
>Unlike your speakers they are, if one is talking about their top models

You don't even have to go that far. The 1.6s are very highly regarded in
audiophile circles, and they're only $1475 a pair. But to Arny, that's
high-end, I suppose.

Boon

[Marc Phillips]

Arny said:

>"S888Wheel" > wrote in message

>>> But are Magnepans truly "High End"?
>>
>> Unlike your speakers they are, if one is talking about their top
>> models
>
>Thanks for admitting that Magnepan is not a high end brand.

Can't you ****ing read?

Boon

[Marc Phillips]

Arny said:

>"Marc Phillips" > wrote in message

>> Arny said:
>>
>>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>>>
>>>> A while back, I may have heard that Magnepans were owned by a
>>>> surprising percentage of Stereophile subscribers, on the order of
>>>> 20%.
>>>
>>> But are Magnepans truly "High End"?
>
>> Why wouldn't they be?
>
>Too practical
>
>Too reliable
>
>Not nearly costly enough.
>
>Sold mail order.
>

Irrelevant.

Boon

[Marc Phillips]

Joseph Oberlander said:

>Arny Krueger wrote:
>
>
>>>>But are Magnepans truly "High End"?
>>
>>
>>>Why wouldn't they be?
>>
>>
>> Too practical
>>
>> Too reliable
>>
>> Not nearly costly enough.
>>
>> Sold mail order.
>
>Lol. :) That just about sums up the "high end" market.

That just about sums up the objectivist fantasy about the high-end market, you
mean. Meanwhile, I continue to own high-end products that run for years
without incident, and are all considered good values for the money. Rega,
Naim, Spendor, Michell, LFD, SME...tell me again about their impractical and
unreliable natures.

Boon

[Bruce J. Richman]

Mr. Phillips wrote:


>Joseph Oberlander said:
>
>>Arny Krueger wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>>But are Magnepans truly "High End"?
>>>
>>>
>>>>Why wouldn't they be?
>>>
>>>
>>> Too practical
>>>
>>> Too reliable
>>>
>>> Not nearly costly enough.
>>>
>>> Sold mail order.
>>
>>Lol. :) That just about sums up the "high end" market.
>
>That just about sums up the objectivist fantasy about the high-end market,
>you
>mean. Meanwhile, I continue to own high-end products that run for years
>without incident, and are all considered good values for the money. Rega,
>Naim, Spendor, Michell, LFD, SME...tell me again about their impractical and
>unreliable natures.
>
>Boon
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

What anti-individual-preference, anti-subjective-opinion "objectives" like
Krueger fail to realize is that even the concept of "high-end audio" is not
solely dependent on a predetermined list of variables, but also to a
significant extent
by individual tastes. It's hard, sometimes, to even make the distinction
*solely* on thee basis of what brands are carried in what most call "high-end"
stores. For example, in Florida, there is a large chain called Sound Advice,
which is part of an even larger conglomerate called Tweeter, Inc. with stores
in New England and elsewhere. Sound Advice carries brands with "high-end"
cachet like Martin Logan, Krell, and B&W, but also carries Yamaha receivers -
some of which might be found in stores not typically considered "high end.

As you've pointed out, Marc, the designation of high-end is not solely
dependent on price but on things like build quality, value/dollar ratios, and
above all, perhaps subjective enjoyment - a concept alien to objectivists who
seem only to take pleasure from reading graphs, statistical specifications,
and/or yelling "prove it" whenever an individual preference or opinion is
expressed.

I've had most of the same components in my system for a number of years with
very few mechanical or electrical problems encountered during that time.
Models from VPI, Grado, California Audio Labs, Conrad Johnson, Nakamichi, MB
Quart (mobile high-end in the opinions of some enthusiasts) and Audio Arts
(also mobile high end) have provided years of enjoyment with very high
cost/benefits ratios.



Bruce J. Richman

[Torresists]

>From: (S888Wheel)
>Date: 2/28/2004 10:58 AM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
Scott "I'm really smart, just ask me" Wheeler scrawled:

>>>> But are Magnepans truly "High End"?
>>>
>>> Unlike your speakers they are, if one is talking about their top
>>> models
>>
>>Thanks for admitting that Magnepan is not a high end brand.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>Thanks for once again showing your complete lack of intelegence.
>
"intelegence"??? Hey, Wheeler, are you really as jackass stupid as you appear
to be on RAO? Or is this just an act? ;-)

[Robert Morein]

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > I actually discovered these waiting for the trash at the curb.
>
> What day do they deliver your trash?
>
Were you in the waste hauling business?
Nothing to be ashamed of.

[Sockpuppet Yustabe]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> > > I actually discovered these waiting for the trash at the curb.
> >
> > What day do they deliver your trash?
> >
> Were you in the waste hauling business?
> Nothing to be ashamed of.
>

I took usenet losers like you to the landfill




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[Joseph Oberlander]

Le Artiste wrote:

> "Marc Phillips" emitted :
>
>
>>>>>>But are Magnepans truly "High End"?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Why wouldn't they be?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Too practical
>>>>
>>>>Too reliable
>>>>
>>>>Not nearly costly enough.
>>>>
>>>>Sold mail order.
>>>
>>>Lol. :) That just about sums up the "high end" market.
>>
>>That just about sums up the objectivist fantasy about the high-end market, you
>>mean. Meanwhile, I continue to own high-end products that run for years
>>without incident, and are all considered good values for the money. Rega,
>>Naim, Spendor, Michell, LFD, SME...tell me again about their impractical and
>>unreliable natures.
>
>
> In my experience high end products are extremely reliable and are of
> significantly better quality. Also quality control and customer
> service is better than with your typical mass market products. Caveat
> emptor, but you get what you pay for.

But, there are exceptions. You see, technology is great.

Eventually, you get better results at a lower cost - and turn the
industry on its ear. Magnepan's little $300 pair they just came out
with are astonishing at their price. New technology, relatively
speaking, compared to conventional drivers - and I defy you to find
a $300 pair of speakers that sounds as good.

The same thing applies to cars. A new Civic will blow the doors off
of a 1965 Mustang in just about every way other than a straight line,
just due to advances in technology.

It's actually getting hard to find a speaker anymore that doesn't
do a decent job. A few do exist, like Bose, but they are becoming
the exception rather than the norm, like they were 20 years ago.

[Robert Morein]

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > >
> > > > I actually discovered these waiting for the trash at the curb.
> > >
> > > What day do they deliver your trash?
> > >
> > Were you in the waste hauling business?
> > Nothing to be ashamed of.
> >
>
> I took usenet losers like you to the landfill
>
If you were an undertaker, that's nothing to be ashamed of.
Lighten up -- it'll be a while longer before they inject formaldehyde into
your veins.

[Robert Morein]

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > >
> > > > I actually discovered these waiting for the trash at the curb.
> > >
> > > What day do they deliver your trash?
> > >
> > Were you in the waste hauling business?
> > Nothing to be ashamed of.
> >
>
> I took usenet losers like you to the landfill
>
Socks, are you in chronic pain, from arthritis or back injury? That can make
a person sour without realizing it.

[Marc Phillips]

Le Artiste said:

>"Marc Phillips" emitted :
>
>>>>>>But are Magnepans truly "High End"?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Why wouldn't they be?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Too practical
>>>>
>>>> Too reliable
>>>>
>>>> Not nearly costly enough.
>>>>
>>>> Sold mail order.
>>>
>>>Lol. :) That just about sums up the "high end" market.
>>
>>That just about sums up the objectivist fantasy about the high-end market,
>you
>>mean. Meanwhile, I continue to own high-end products that run for years
>>without incident, and are all considered good values for the money. Rega,
>>Naim, Spendor, Michell, LFD, SME...tell me again about their impractical and
>>unreliable natures.
>
>In my experience high end products are extremely reliable and are of
>significantly better quality. Also quality control and customer
>service is better than with your typical mass market products. Caveat
>emptor, but you get what you pay for.

Exactly. For instance, I bought my Naim CD3 back in 1996 after the laser
assembly for my Creek CD60 went tits up after just three years. Before the
Creek died, I owned a Magnavox, a Mitsubishi, and a Sony CD player, and none of
them lasted even that long. I bought the Naim because it sounded spectacular,
but also, as the dealer said, because "Naims never break down." Indeed, I've
had this player for eight years now, and it has performed flawlessly all this
time. And the entry'level Naims, in their various incarnations, have always
been the least expensive CD players ever to make Stereophile's Class A in the
RC list.

I can say the same thing about my Spendor S20s, which have been in service for
twelve years now, which are definitely classic British minimonitors in every
sense. And those cost me less than a grand. My Spendor SP100s are more than
six years old...same deal, same value. And the Regas I've had were always a
joy to own and use.

Boon

[Sockpuppet Yustabe]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >
> > > > "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > >
> > > > > I actually discovered these waiting for the trash at the curb.
> > > >
> > > > What day do they deliver your trash?
> > > >
> > > Were you in the waste hauling business?
> > > Nothing to be ashamed of.
> > >
> >
> > I took usenet losers like you to the landfill
> >
> If you were an undertaker, that's nothing to be ashamed of.
> Lighten up -- it'll be a while longer before they inject formaldehyde into
> your veins.
>

Keep guessng, fool. This is fun.




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[Sockpuppet Yustabe]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >
> > > > "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > >
> > > > > I actually discovered these waiting for the trash at the curb.
> > > >
> > > > What day do they deliver your trash?
> > > >
> > > Were you in the waste hauling business?
> > > Nothing to be ashamed of.
> > >
> >
> > I took usenet losers like you to the landfill
> >
> Socks, are you in chronic pain, from arthritis or back injury? That can
make
> a person sour without realizing it.
>

I am well aware of my 'sourness' towards you.




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[Sander deWaal]

Joseph Oberlander > said:

>> But are Magnepans truly "High End"?

>That's a bit of the mystique - they sound like high-end" speakers,
>yet are relatively low-priced. It's not surprizing that people
>who are frugal with their money,(despite what they recommend)
>would seek a lower cost alternative like this.

Dunno if Magnepans are high end, but my MG1-As in conjunction with the
SMGAs, driven by resp. KT88 PPP triode and hybrid MOSFET amps give a
wide and deep soundstage, almost hallucinating.
Seldom I've had more pleasure and satisfaction from a music
reproduction system than from my current one.

BTW Dave, it's entirely possible to do repairs on your Magnepan
panels. Just make sure you get the right glue, a blueish sticky stuff
which you can order right from the factory.
When done right, Magnepan panels can live for ages and they don't
suffer from diminishing efficiency like some electrostatic speakers.

--
Sander deWaal
Vacuum Audio Consultancy

[Sander deWaal]

"ScottW" > said:

>For me, high end is what sounds good to you.

Agreed.

--
Sander deWaal
Vacuum Audio Consultancy

[dave weil]

On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 15:51:41 +0100, Sander deWaal
> wrote:

>Joseph Oberlander > said:
>
>>> But are Magnepans truly "High End"?
>
>>That's a bit of the mystique - they sound like high-end" speakers,
>>yet are relatively low-priced. It's not surprizing that people
>>who are frugal with their money,(despite what they recommend)
>>would seek a lower cost alternative like this.
>
>Dunno if Magnepans are high end, but my MG1-As in conjunction with the
>SMGAs, driven by resp. KT88 PPP triode and hybrid MOSFET amps give a
>wide and deep soundstage, almost hallucinating.
>Seldom I've had more pleasure and satisfaction from a music
>reproduction system than from my current one.

Perhaps they don't take kindly to SS. My MG-1s are rather pallid
sounding. Maybe I should try them with the Fisher X202.

>BTW Dave, it's entirely possible to do repairs on your Magnepan
>panels. Just make sure you get the right glue, a blueish sticky stuff
>which you can order right from the factory.

Do you know the exact procedure? You've got me interested now. I'm
going to be speaker poor shortly, since I've decided to sell my
Cornwalls for space reasons.

>When done right, Magnepan panels can live for ages and they don't
>suffer from diminishing efficiency like some electrostatic speakers.

[Sander deWaal]

dave weil > said:

>Perhaps they don't take kindly to SS. My MG-1s are rather pallid
>sounding. Maybe I should try them with the Fisher X202.

One of the requirements of the amp is that it must be able to deliver
enough current over the audio band.
A 2 or 4 ohms tap on a tube amp or enough current reserve in the power
supply of a SS amp should make your panels come to life.
OTOH, those older Maggies lack much of the dynamics of a good modern
cone speaker, so IMHO there's no fair comparison between them.
Old Maggies have a charm of their own, but they can prosper both on
tube and solid state amps.

>>BTW Dave, it's entirely possible to do repairs on your Magnepan
>>panels. Just make sure you get the right glue, a blueish sticky stuff
>>which you can order right from the factory.

>Do you know the exact procedure? You've got me interested now. I'm
>going to be speaker poor shortly, since I've decided to sell my
>Cornwalls for space reasons.

Depending on the condition of the panels, loose wires can always be
glued back in place.
If you are so unfortunate that the tweeter aluminum wire corroded,
it's best to order new aluminum wire of the right gauge and rewire the
entire tweeter part.
DON'T attempt to use copper wire instead, you'll never be able to get
the right tweeter characteristics back! Believe me, I tried : (
I've done so with one of my MG1 improved (NOT MG1A as I wrote earlier)
and, besides the tedious work of getting the wire in the right place
and keeping it there, this was a fairly easy job, be it timeconsuming.
You should be able to obtain wire and glue from the manufacturer, I
got my stuff from the Dutch importer without too many questions asked.
In total, it cost me about 80 euro for 10 meters, which should be
nearly the amount in dollars.
In case of the distributor rewiring the panel, it would have cost me
about euro 350 ex shipping.
Another worthwile tweak is swapping the bipolar electrolytic for a
polypropylene type of the same value, if not already done.

Bass panels usually don't give problems, as they're thick bifilar
wound copper wires. They can let loose, but glueing them back is very
easy.

To determine loose wire ends, connect a sine wave generator or a wave
synth to your amp and sweep over the frequency range.
You'll be able to detect resonances very easy this way.
Another good test is the CD "Lyle Mays", track 6 "Invocation".
The electronic "flute" on this track is a Magnepan obstacle course !
(Also good for determining distortion by overload of a small amp).
Be sure to start at low SPL !

If you want detailed information, pls. darken the doors of my mailbox.
Remember to reverse the "ln" suffix !

--
Sander deWaal
Vacuum Audio Consultancy

[Sander deWaal]

George M. Middius > said:

>> >For me, high end is what sounds good to you.

>> Agreed.

>Aside from the absurdity of a sensible person like you agreeing -- in
>public, no less -- with the slobbering Terrierdork, that "definition"
>is meaningless. Boomboxes sound "good" to a lot of people. Does that
>make boomboxes high end?

I took Scott's comment in the context of knowing what speakers he has.
I'm assuming the rest of the system does justice to the Quads.
Ergo, Scott knows what sounds good to him, and I agreed on that :-)
His political views don't interest me.

PS. I don't agree that boomboxes sound good to many people.
I think most people just don't care, as long as the "thing" puts out
noise, preferably on 5.1 channels. Lots!

--
Sander deWaal
Vacuum Audio Consultancy

[ScottW]

"George M. Middius" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Sander deWaal said:
>
> > >For me, high end is what sounds good to you.
> >
> > Agreed.
>
> Aside from the absurdity of a sensible person like you agreeing -- in
> public, no less -- with the slobbering Terrierdork, that "definition"
> is meaningless. Boomboxes sound "good" to a lot of people. Does that
> make boomboxes high end?

So what's your definition George?
Cost? Marketing? Magazine reviews?
Low production volume?

Perhaps I should have said, "high end is what sounds good to
me". That would leave you out of it.

ScottW

[ScottW]

"Sander deWaal" > wrote in message
...
> George M. Middius > said:
>
> >> >For me, high end is what sounds good to you.
>
> >> Agreed.
>
> >Aside from the absurdity of a sensible person like you agreeing -- in
> >public, no less -- with the slobbering Terrierdork, that "definition"
> >is meaningless. Boomboxes sound "good" to a lot of people. Does that
> >make boomboxes high end?
>
> I took Scott's comment in the context of knowing what speakers he has.
> I'm assuming the rest of the system does justice to the Quads.
> Ergo, Scott knows what sounds good to him, and I agreed on that :-)

I'm driving 'em with solid state, Krell KSA-150. One of my tubeophile
friends said (and correct me if misquote), "These speakers even make
solid state sound good."
Also have a small sub, HSU VTF-2 which is set to just add a little body
to the bass.
My turntable is a 20 year old Mitsubishi LT-30 with an aging Signet TK-7
cart.
(I've been assured by Trots that this rig is a POS and only worth $15
but it sounds good to me.) Preamp is a Yamaha C-70, also a nice
sounding POS :).
My CD (AMC CD-9) is run through a passive attenuator.
I also have a Panasonic RP-91 DVD player for DVD-A (built in
decoders allow me to send analog to stereo or digital to the receiver)
that also runs into my home theater with a pair Legacy Focus mains
and Mirage OM-5 rears. Receiver is a Pioneer VSX D412 which I just picked
up.
Thing does an amazing job for the price.
So I guess I have a mixed bag of high end and not so high end stuff.
Still, my stereo and my home theater sound pretty good to me.

ScottW

[Robert Morein]

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >
> > > > "Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > >
> > > > > "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> > > > > ...
> > > > >
> > > > > > I actually discovered these waiting for the trash at the curb.
> > > > >
> > > > > What day do they deliver your trash?
> > > > >
> > > > Were you in the waste hauling business?
> > > > Nothing to be ashamed of.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I took usenet losers like you to the landfill
> > >
> > Socks, are you in chronic pain, from arthritis or back injury? That can
> make
> > a person sour without realizing it.
> >
>
> I am well aware of my 'sourness' towards you.
>
So, what do (did) you do for a living?

[ScottW]

"George M. Middius" > wrote in message
...
> >
> > I took Scott's comment in the context of knowing what speakers he has.
> > I'm assuming the rest of the system does justice to the Quads.
> > Ergo, Scott knows what sounds good to him, and I agreed on that :-)
>
> He also has some Legacy Focus speakers that have seldom been seen
> rising above rank mediocrity.

You wouldn't be one those guys who goes about dissing equipment
he's never heard, would you?

Have you ever heard them?

ScottW

[ScottW]

"George M. Middius" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Yappity.....
>
> > > Aside from the absurdity of a sensible person like you agreeing -- in
> > > public, no less -- with the slobbering Terrierdork, that "definition"
> > > is meaningless. Boomboxes sound "good" to a lot of people. Does that
> > > make boomboxes high end?
> >
> > So what's your definition George?
> > Cost? Marketing? Magazine reviews?
> > Low production volume?
>
> Sounding *excellent* is a key for me. What I have now sounds good, but
> I know I could get better sound from other (better) stuff.

That is fine, but I feel excellent is too restrictive.
The list of equipment that would be "high end"
would be very short.
For example, only Martin Logan Statements could be
considered high end of all the Martin Logans.
Is that what you intend?

>
> > Perhaps I should have said, "high end is what sounds good to
> > me". That would leave you out of it.
>
> It wouldn't correct the basic error, which seems to be that you are
> unwilling (or unable) to describe sound as anything other than "good"
> or "not good".

So, all you have is "excellent" or "not excellent".
This defintion doesn't address how much enjoyment you can get.
It simply pits equipment against equipment
and only the best qualifies.

Excellent:
1.. Of the highest or finest quality; exceptionally good of its kind.
2.. Archaic Superior.
How Borgish.


ScottW

[ScottW]

"George M. Middius" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> The Terrierdork bites its dorky little tail.
>
> > > > I took Scott's comment in the context of knowing what speakers he
has.
>
> > > He also has some Legacy Focus speakers that have seldom been seen
> > > rising above rank mediocrity.
> >
> > You wouldn't be one those guys who goes about dissing equipment
> > he's never heard, would you?
> >
> > Have you ever heard them?
>
> You wouldn't be one of those folks who thinks he knows a lot more than
> he does know, would you?

I'm going to take this as a definite no.

>
> Have you ever known anything?

I know you're as big a hifi biggot as Trotsky.

ScottW

[ScottW]

"George M. Middius" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Robert Morein said:
>
> > So, what do (did) you do for a living?
>
> Please, can we leave out the slurs about undertaking? It's a necessary
> job, and somebody has to do it.

But why would you leave a lucrative IT career for that?

ScottW

[ScottW]

"George M. Middius" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> More yapping from the empty hole.
>
> > > > > He also has some Legacy Focus speakers that have seldom been seen
> > > > > rising above rank mediocrity.
> > > >
> > > > You wouldn't be one those guys who goes about dissing equipment
> > > > he's never heard, would you?
> > > >
> > > > Have you ever heard them?
> > >
> > > You wouldn't be one of those folks who thinks he knows a lot more
than
> > > he does know, would you?
> >
> > I'm going to take this as a definite no.
>
> Thanks for admitting you are still in love with Krooger.
>
> > > Have you ever known anything?
> >
> > I know you're as big a hifi biggot as Trotsky.
>
> .... and for showing you're as blissfully free of self-awareness as
> you are of reasoning skill.

Your busted George and the truth hurts.
Deal with it.

ScottW

[Sockpuppet Yustabe]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >
> > > > "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > >
> > > > > "Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote in message
> > > > > ...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> > > > > > ...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I actually discovered these waiting for the trash at the curb.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What day do they deliver your trash?
> > > > > >
> > > > > Were you in the waste hauling business?
> > > > > Nothing to be ashamed of.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > I took usenet losers like you to the landfill
> > > >
> > > Socks, are you in chronic pain, from arthritis or back injury? That
can
> > make
> > > a person sour without realizing it.
> > >
> >
> > I am well aware of my 'sourness' towards you.
> >
> So, what do (did) you do for a living?


None of your business




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[ScottW]

"George M. Middius" > wrote in message
...
>
> Oh, I never realized you were that discriminating. Until you got the
> Quads (which you did kicking and screaming, I recall),

Now you're delusional. What do you know about my
Quad purchasing experience (which was one of the
easiest decisions I ever made)?

> you were
> perfectly willing to settle for non-high end stuff.

More hifi bigotry?

>
> > For example, only Martin Logan Statements could be
> > considered high end of all the Martin Logans.
> > Is that what you intend?
>
> Boy, you are some piece of work.

It's your flawed logic, defend it if you can.
So far, you haven't put forth much of an argument.

Why not admit you ****ed up using "excellent" and we
can move on?

>
> All I said is "sounding excellent". If something sounds excellent to
> you, then by that standard, it would be high-end.
>
> Let it be said, though, that my standard of excellence applies more to
> systems than to individual components. Although speakers have the most
> influence in the sound of a system, it would be simple-minded to claim
> that a certain set of speakers alone makes a system "high end".

And would it be simple minded to claim that a single piece of equipment
not perceived by many to be high end could prevent a system from being so?

ScottW

[dave weil]

On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 11:33:55 -0800, "ScottW" >
wrote:

> I know you're as big a hifi biggot as Trotsky.

Is "biggot" in your dictionary?

[Sander deWaal]

George M. Middius > said:

>> I took Scott's comment in the context of knowing what speakers he has.
>> I'm assuming the rest of the system does justice to the Quads.
>> Ergo, Scott knows what sounds good to him, and I agreed on that :-)

>He also has some Legacy Focus speakers that have seldom been seen
>rising above rank mediocrity.

Never heard (of) them, so I can't comment on that.

>> PS. I don't agree that boomboxes sound good to many people.
>> I think most people just don't care, as long as the "thing" puts out
>> noise, preferably on 5.1 channels. Lots!

>I think one has to care before one can decide what sounds good. YMMV.

Exactly! That's why I can't agree with your statement:

>>Boomboxes sound "good" to a lot of people.

--
Sander deWaal
Vacuum Audio Consultancy

[Sander deWaal]

"ScottW" > said:

>> I took Scott's comment in the context of knowing what speakers he has.
>> I'm assuming the rest of the system does justice to the Quads.
>> Ergo, Scott knows what sounds good to him, and I agreed on that :-)
>
> I'm driving 'em with solid state, Krell KSA-150. One of my tubeophile
>friends said (and correct me if misquote), "These speakers even make
>solid state sound good."

Ego te absolvo, my son.

--
Sander deWaal
Vacuum Audio Consultancy

[Sander deWaal]

Cockpuppet Yeast Infection > said:

>I'm not making an anti-feedback argument, and there's no question that
>Quads, like every other speaker, store energy and a little while later
>attempt to dump current back to the amp. But maybe there's something
>less sonically objectionable in this process with Quads than in the
>case of many dynamic drivers?

I happen to think that certain speakers just don't send back as much
rubbish into the feedback loop as others.
I also happen to think that Quad ESL63s and 989s are among those
speakers.

>A few days ago, I swapped my Rotel RB-1090 for my Chord SPM-1200C
>driving the 989s at my office. The Rotel sounded a bit darker, a
>little less fluid in the mids than the Chord, but it was perhaps a
>sideways move in presentation, not at all a race between a paraplegic
>with a high-quality invalid carriage and a formula one driver with
>cutting-edge combustion. I honestly couldn't say I prefered one over
>the other. OTOH, a little while ago I compared those amps driving my
>Maggie 3.6s at home and the difference was night and day: the Chord
>was *greatly* superior to the Rotel in the midrange--if not so
>definitively anywhere else (maybe the Chord had a little more 'grip'
>in the bottom end, but I couldn't swear to it).

Maggies require current.
As long as the amp doesn't run out of that, they're fairly easy to
drive.
Driving Maggies with cheap solid state amps will fry'em.
The amps, that is.

>I've reached the conclusion that expensive transistor amplification,
>while it probably will pay dividends with other speakers, doesn't make
>that much difference with Quads--the 63s, 988s, or 989s. If I was
>driving my 989s with my £200 RA-931 and covered everything over with a
>cloth, I'm certain no one would raise an eyebrow if I told them there
>was £4K of amplification driving the speakers. The system sounds about
>as far removed from 'hi-fi sound' you can get bar having real
>instruments in your listening room.

Ah, the required "wife in the kitchen" tale.

*grin*

>One final point about SS driving Quads, however. If you want loudness,
>*real loudness*, my experiences run contrary to Quad's advice: don't
>skimp on amplifier power. Low-power SS amplifiers *are not* suitable
>for driving Quads to loud levels, IMO. This amp requirement has
>nothing at all to do with sound quality or loudness per se, but with
>Quad's protection circuitry. The speakers shut down with low-powered
>SS amps (this isn't true of valve amps, I have found). While the
>RA-931 plays loud and without distortion, it won't take Quads to their
>extremes--nor will any other amp I've tried with less than 150W per
>channel. I don't understand why this is so, but it *is* so. I haven't
>tried feedback-free SS, but I have a sneaking suspicion things will be
>quite different.

You should try my zero-global-feedback hybrids.
In the most recent version with 4 x 4 complementary MOSFETS in class
A, driven by 2 x E288CC in parallel SRPP, you'll be astonished.
I'm expecting these puppies to drive the Quads with ease, with their
800 VA/ch power supplies and current doubling capacity up to 1 ohms.
Yup, 1 ohms ! They'll bury a Krell KSA50 and sound better to boot :-)

LOL!

--
Sander deWaal
Vacuum Audio Consultancy

[ScottW]

"dave weil" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 11:33:55 -0800, "ScottW" >
> wrote:
>
> > I know you're as big a hifi biggot as Trotsky.
>
> Is "biggot" in your dictionary?

Nope. Thank god there isn't a phonetically
equivalent yiddish word in there,
or is there?

ScottW

[MINe 109]

In article >,
Sander deWaal > wrote:

> Cockpuppet Yeast Infection > said:
>
> >I'm not making an anti-feedback argument, and there's no question that
> >Quads, like every other speaker, store energy and a little while later
> >attempt to dump current back to the amp. But maybe there's something
> >less sonically objectionable in this process with Quads than in the
> >case of many dynamic drivers?
>
> I happen to think that certain speakers just don't send back as much
> rubbish into the feedback loop as others.
> I also happen to think that Quad ESL63s and 989s are among those
> speakers.
>
> >A few days ago, I swapped my Rotel RB-1090 for my Chord SPM-1200C
> >driving the 989s at my office. The Rotel sounded a bit darker, a
> >little less fluid in the mids than the Chord, but it was perhaps a
> >sideways move in presentation, not at all a race between a paraplegic
> >with a high-quality invalid carriage and a formula one driver with
> >cutting-edge combustion. I honestly couldn't say I prefered one over
> >the other. OTOH, a little while ago I compared those amps driving my
> >Maggie 3.6s at home and the difference was night and day: the Chord
> >was *greatly* superior to the Rotel in the midrange--if not so
> >definitively anywhere else (maybe the Chord had a little more 'grip'
> >in the bottom end, but I couldn't swear to it).

Hmm. I have a 13 watt Sansui receiver not doing anything. Maybe I have a
Rotel beater and didn't know it!

> Maggies require current.
> As long as the amp doesn't run out of that, they're fairly easy to
> drive.
> Driving Maggies with cheap solid state amps will fry'em.
> The amps, that is.

With Quads, one runs the risk of sacrificing a cheap amp to the ghost of
Peter Walker due to his clamp circuit. Better than losing an expensive
speaker.

> >I've reached the conclusion that expensive transistor amplification,
> >while it probably will pay dividends with other speakers, doesn't make
> >that much difference with Quads--the 63s, 988s, or 989s. If I was
> >driving my 989s with my £200 RA-931 and covered everything over with a
> >cloth, I'm certain no one would raise an eyebrow if I told them there
> >was £4K of amplification driving the speakers. The system sounds about
> >as far removed from 'hi-fi sound' you can get bar having real
> >instruments in your listening room.
>
> Ah, the required "wife in the kitchen" tale.
>
> *grin*

If there's a bar and real instruments, you're in a pub! Especially if
you've left the wife in the kitchen...

> >One final point about SS driving Quads, however. If you want loudness,
> >*real loudness*, my experiences run contrary to Quad's advice: don't
> >skimp on amplifier power. Low-power SS amplifiers *are not* suitable
> >for driving Quads to loud levels, IMO. This amp requirement has
> >nothing at all to do with sound quality or loudness per se, but with
> >Quad's protection circuitry. The speakers shut down with low-powered
> >SS amps (this isn't true of valve amps, I have found). While the
> >RA-931 plays loud and without distortion, it won't take Quads to their
> >extremes--nor will any other amp I've tried with less than 150W per
> >channel. I don't understand why this is so, but it *is* so. I haven't
> >tried feedback-free SS, but I have a sneaking suspicion things will be
> >quite different.
>
> You should try my zero-global-feedback hybrids.
> In the most recent version with 4 x 4 complementary MOSFETS in class
> A, driven by 2 x E288CC in parallel SRPP, you'll be astonished.
> I'm expecting these puppies to drive the Quads with ease, with their
> 800 VA/ch power supplies and current doubling capacity up to 1 ohms.
> Yup, 1 ohms ! They'll bury a Krell KSA50 and sound better to boot :-)
>
> LOL!

You two are having too much fun! I hope matching those MOSFETs was
tedious. :-)

I was curious about the NAD S-300 sometime back because of the claim of
low feedback. Are there other low or no feedback amps available?
Preferably cheap. I settled for a used NAD C340 for much less than the
Silverline would have been.

Stephen

[Sockpuppet Yustabe]

"ScottW" > wrote in message
news:bbt0c.22461$aZ3.8406@fed1read04...
>
> "dave weil" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 11:33:55 -0800, "ScottW" >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I know you're as big a hifi biggot as Trotsky.
> >
> > Is "biggot" in your dictionary?
>
> Nope. Thank god there isn't a phonetically
> equivalent yiddish word in there,
> or is there?
>

I don't know what we call someone who doesn't like the fegelas or the
schvatzes.




----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

[dave weil]

On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 13:53:04 -0800, "ScottW" >
wrote:

>
>"dave weil" > wrote in message
...
>> On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 11:33:55 -0800, "ScottW" >
>> wrote:
>>
>> > I know you're as big a hifi biggot as Trotsky.
>>
>> Is "biggot" in your dictionary?
>
>Nope. Thank god there isn't a phonetically
>equivalent yiddish word in there,
>or is there?

I dunno. It's *your* dictionary, after all...

[Sandman]

"George M. Middius" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> dave weil said to the Terrierdork:
>
> > > I know you're as big a hifi biggot as Trotsky.
> >
> > Is "biggot" in your dictionary?
>
> Poor Scottie. An hour ago, he disdained a phonetic approach to
> language. If orthographic is out too, that probably just leaves paw
> gestures. ;-)

Maybe he just got it confused with his mouth: a "spiggot". :0)~

[Arny Krueger]

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote in message

> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote in message
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I actually discovered these waiting for the trash at the curb.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What day do they deliver your trash?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Were you in the waste hauling business?
>>>>>> Nothing to be ashamed of.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I took usenet losers like you to the landfill
>>>>>
>>>> Socks, are you in chronic pain, from arthritis or back injury?
>>>> That can make a person sour without realizing it.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I am well aware of my 'sourness' towards you.
>>>
>> So, what do (did) you do for a living?
>
>
> None of your business

Yustabe, like sockpuppet wheel, you made it our business when you first
attacked others based on their occupations. Just another example of your
hypocrisy and predatory behavior.

[Arny Krueger]

"ScottW" > wrote in message
news:kg90c.22114$aZ3.310@fed1read04
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> I have a set of very ordinary looking 10" bookshelves of completely
>> anonymous manufacture in my living room that give the best sound in
>> the house.
>
> What else is in the house that sounds worse?
>
> I have a pair of original large Advents that I enjoy very much.
> I listened to a pair of PSB Stratus Golds once in a shop
> and I couldn't get over how much they reminded me of my Advents.

Letsee, they both had bass and treble...

> I was looking for something more dynamic at the time and
> ended up with a pair of Legacy Focus.

Not a bad choice.

> From there I went to Quads (talk about a dynamic shift :) )

Yup, absence of dynamic range based on very limited SPL capacity.

> and now use the Focus for home theatre. I am surprised
> how good the Focus sound driven by an inexpensive
> Pioneer receiver.

Obvious lesson that Scottie apparently missed: Modern electronics are really
pretty good, even at the lower price points.
> For me, high end is what sounds good to you.
>
> ScottW

[Arny Krueger]

"dave weil" > wrote in message

> On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 13:53:04 -0800, "ScottW" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>> "dave weil" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 11:33:55 -0800, "ScottW" >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I know you're as big a hifi biggot as Trotsky.
>>>
>>> Is "biggot" in your dictionary?
>>
>> Nope. Thank god there isn't a phonetically
>> equivalent yiddish word in there,
>> or is there?
>
> I dunno. It's *your* dictionary, after all...

Part of the Weil hypocrisy act - spelling errors and typos don't matter when
he carelessly makes them by the bundle, but screw up just once, and he
shouts it from the housetops.

[Arny Krueger]

"dave weil" > wrote in message

> On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 15:51:41 +0100, Sander deWaal
> > wrote:
>
>> Joseph Oberlander > said:
>>
>>>> But are Magnepans truly "High End"?
>>
>>> That's a bit of the mystique - they sound like high-end" speakers,
>>> yet are relatively low-priced. It's not surprizing that people
>>> who are frugal with their money,(despite what they recommend)
>>> would seek a lower cost alternative like this.
>>
>> Dunno if Magnepans are high end, but my MG1-As in conjunction with
>> the SMGAs, driven by resp. KT88 PPP triode and hybrid MOSFET amps
>> give a wide and deep soundstage, almost hallucinating.
>> Seldom I've had more pleasure and satisfaction from a music
>> reproduction system than from my current one.
>
> Perhaps they don't take kindly to SS. My MG-1s are rather pallid
> sounding. Maybe I should try them with the Fisher X202.

Maybe you ought to fix the broken panels, and find a proper room for them.

[dave weil]

On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 08:57:15 -0500, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>"dave weil" > wrote in message

>> On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 13:53:04 -0800, "ScottW" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "dave weil" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 11:33:55 -0800, "ScottW" >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I know you're as big a hifi biggot as Trotsky.
>>>>
>>>> Is "biggot" in your dictionary?
>>>
>>> Nope. Thank god there isn't a phonetically
>>> equivalent yiddish word in there,
>>> or is there?
>>
>> I dunno. It's *your* dictionary, after all...
>
>Part of the Weil hypocrisy act - spelling errors and typos don't matter when
>he carelessly makes them by the bundle, but screw up just once, and he
>shouts it from the housetops.

Yep, you missed the point YET again.

So, what else is new, Mr. Ham Sandwich Chomper?

[dave weil]

On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 08:58:01 -0500, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>"dave weil" > wrote in message

>> On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 15:51:41 +0100, Sander deWaal
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Joseph Oberlander > said:
>>>
>>>>> But are Magnepans truly "High End"?
>>>
>>>> That's a bit of the mystique - they sound like high-end" speakers,
>>>> yet are relatively low-priced. It's not surprizing that people
>>>> who are frugal with their money,(despite what they recommend)
>>>> would seek a lower cost alternative like this.
>>>
>>> Dunno if Magnepans are high end, but my MG1-As in conjunction with
>>> the SMGAs, driven by resp. KT88 PPP triode and hybrid MOSFET amps
>>> give a wide and deep soundstage, almost hallucinating.
>>> Seldom I've had more pleasure and satisfaction from a music
>>> reproduction system than from my current one.
>>
>> Perhaps they don't take kindly to SS. My MG-1s are rather pallid
>> sounding. Maybe I should try them with the Fisher X202.
>
>Maybe you ought to fix the broken panels,

Incorrect assumption.

> and find a proper room for them.

I've got one, thank you. They'll go in the bedroom *if* they'll sound
good enough for me.

[Arny Krueger]

"dave weil" > wrote in message

> On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 08:57:15 -0500, "Arny Krueger" >
> wrote:
>
>> "dave weil" > wrote in message
>>
>>> On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 13:53:04 -0800, "ScottW" >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "dave weil" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 11:33:55 -0800, "ScottW"
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I know you're as big a hifi biggot as Trotsky.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is "biggot" in your dictionary?
>>>>
>>>> Nope. Thank god there isn't a phonetically
>>>> equivalent yiddish word in there,
>>>> or is there?
>>>
>>> I dunno. It's *your* dictionary, after all...
>>
>> Part of the Weil hypocrisy act - spelling errors and typos don't
>> matter when he carelessly makes them by the bundle, but screw up
>> just once, and he shouts it from the housetops.

> Yep, you missed the point YET again.

Weil, that's your specialty, I just play along with your arrogance and
stupidity for irony's sake.

> So, what else is new, Mr. Ham Sandwich Chomper?

What's your problem with ham sandwiches Weil, is it that they're not
Kosher? If so, why are you trying to ram your religious beliefs down my
throat, both figuratively and literally?

If it will make you feel more stupid Weil, let me point out that most of the
so-called ham I eat actually comes from turkeys. I think there's even a
circled-K someplace on the packaging.

[Arny Krueger]

"dave weil" > wrote in message

> On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 08:58:01 -0500, "Arny Krueger" >
> wrote:
>
>> "dave weil" > wrote in message
>>
>>> On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 15:51:41 +0100, Sander deWaal
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Joseph Oberlander > said:
>>>>
>>>>>> But are Magnepans truly "High End"?
>>>>
>>>>> That's a bit of the mystique - they sound like high-end" speakers,
>>>>> yet are relatively low-priced. It's not surprizing that people
>>>>> who are frugal with their money,(despite what they recommend)
>>>>> would seek a lower cost alternative like this.
>>>>
>>>> Dunno if Magnepans are high end, but my MG1-As in conjunction with
>>>> the SMGAs, driven by resp. KT88 PPP triode and hybrid MOSFET amps
>>>> give a wide and deep soundstage, almost hallucinating.
>>>> Seldom I've had more pleasure and satisfaction from a music
>>>> reproduction system than from my current one.
>>>
>>> Perhaps they don't take kindly to SS. My MG-1s are rather pallid
>>> sounding. Maybe I should try them with the Fisher X202.
>>
>> Maybe you ought to fix the broken panels,

> Incorrect assumption.

Why wouldn't you fix the broken panels?

>> and find a proper room for them.

> I've got one, thank you. They'll go in the bedroom *if* they'll sound
> good enough for me.

Thanks for contradicting yourself so quickly, Weil.

[dave weil]

On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 09:39:43 -0500, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>"dave weil" > wrote in message

>> On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 08:57:15 -0500, "Arny Krueger" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> "dave weil" > wrote in message
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 13:53:04 -0800, "ScottW" >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "dave weil" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 11:33:55 -0800, "ScottW"
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I know you're as big a hifi biggot as Trotsky.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is "biggot" in your dictionary?
>>>>>
>>>>> Nope. Thank god there isn't a phonetically
>>>>> equivalent yiddish word in there,
>>>>> or is there?
>>>>
>>>> I dunno. It's *your* dictionary, after all...
>>>
>>> Part of the Weil hypocrisy act - spelling errors and typos don't
>>> matter when he carelessly makes them by the bundle, but screw up
>>> just once, and he shouts it from the housetops.
>
>> Yep, you missed the point YET again.
>
>Weil, that's your specialty, I just play along with your arrogance and
>stupidity for irony's sake.
>
>> So, what else is new, Mr. Ham Sandwich Chomper?
>
>What's your problem with ham sandwiches Weil, is it that they're not
>Kosher?

Sure, That's it. That's why I'm having a bacon and biscuit sandwich as
we speak.

> If so, why are you trying to ram your religious beliefs down my
>throat, both figuratively and literally?

Frankly, coming from someone who brags about *his* religion at any
chance that he gets, this is pretty darn funny, Mr. Velveeta.

>If it will make you feel more stupid Weil, let me point out that most of the
>so-called ham I eat actually comes from turkeys. I think there's even a
>circled-K someplace on the packaging.

If you're too stupid to eat real ham, that's *your* problem, not mine.

And who in the hell knows what a "circled-K" is anyway. Do you buy
your meat at a gas station or something?

[dave weil]

On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 09:41:05 -0500, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>"dave weil" > wrote in message

>> On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 08:58:01 -0500, "Arny Krueger" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> "dave weil" > wrote in message
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 15:51:41 +0100, Sander deWaal
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Joseph Oberlander > said:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> But are Magnepans truly "High End"?
>>>>>
>>>>>> That's a bit of the mystique - they sound like high-end" speakers,
>>>>>> yet are relatively low-priced. It's not surprizing that people
>>>>>> who are frugal with their money,(despite what they recommend)
>>>>>> would seek a lower cost alternative like this.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dunno if Magnepans are high end, but my MG1-As in conjunction with
>>>>> the SMGAs, driven by resp. KT88 PPP triode and hybrid MOSFET amps
>>>>> give a wide and deep soundstage, almost hallucinating.
>>>>> Seldom I've had more pleasure and satisfaction from a music
>>>>> reproduction system than from my current one.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps they don't take kindly to SS. My MG-1s are rather pallid
>>>> sounding. Maybe I should try them with the Fisher X202.
>>>
>>> Maybe you ought to fix the broken panels,
>
>> Incorrect assumption.
>
>Why wouldn't you fix the broken panels?

Because I don't have broken panels.

>>> and find a proper room for them.
>
>> I've got one, thank you. They'll go in the bedroom *if* they'll sound
>> good enough for me.
>
>Thanks for contradicting yourself so quickly, Weil.

No contradiction.

[Arny Krueger]

"dave weil" > wrote in message

> On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 09:39:43 -0500, "Arny Krueger" >
> wrote:
>
>> "dave weil" > wrote in message
>>
>>> On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 08:57:15 -0500, "Arny Krueger" >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "dave weil" > wrote in message
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 13:53:04 -0800, "ScottW"
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "dave weil" > wrote in message
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 11:33:55 -0800, "ScottW"
>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I know you're as big a hifi biggot as Trotsky.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is "biggot" in your dictionary?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nope. Thank god there isn't a phonetically
>>>>>> equivalent yiddish word in there,
>>>>>> or is there?
>>>>>
>>>>> I dunno. It's *your* dictionary, after all...
>>>>
>>>> Part of the Weil hypocrisy act - spelling errors and typos don't
>>>> matter when he carelessly makes them by the bundle, but screw up
>>>> just once, and he shouts it from the housetops.
>>
>>> Yep, you missed the point YET again.
>>
>> Weil, that's your specialty, I just play along with your arrogance
>> and stupidity for irony's sake.
>>
>>> So, what else is new, Mr. Ham Sandwich Chomper?
>>
>> What's your problem with ham sandwiches Weil, is it that they're not
>> Kosher?
>
> Sure, That's it. That's why I'm having a bacon and biscuit sandwich as
> we speak.

OK Weil, so you're just being a bully-boy.

>> If so, why are you trying to ram your religious beliefs down my
>> throat, both figuratively and literally?

> Frankly, coming from someone who brags about *his* religion at any
> chance that he gets, this is pretty darn funny, Mr. Velveeta.

Weil, you obviously lack the creativity to imagine what "every chance I get"
would really look like.

>> If it will make you feel more stupid Weil, let me point out that
>> most of the so-called ham I eat actually comes from turkeys. I think
>> there's even a circled-K someplace on the packaging.

> If you're too stupid to eat real ham, that's *your* problem, not mine.

So now not eating *real* ham is some kind of a major malfunction? Just shows
how hard-up you are Weil, to find something to complain about.

> And who in the hell knows what a "circled-K" is anyway. Do you buy
> your meat at a gas station or something?

Shows how completely uninformed you are, Weil. Your education is not my job.
Maybe someone will fill you in with a little private email.

[S888Wheel]

>
>Yustabe, like sockpuppet wheel, you made it our business when you first
>attacked others based on their occupations. Just another example of your
>hypocrisy and predatory behavior.
>
>

Bull****. You attacked Dave Weil for being a waiter despite the fact that you
are unemployed and have never amounted to anything in the professional world. I
was calling you on your hypocrisy. That hypocrisy is a fact that is independent
of my occupation. I never would have made an issue of it had you not
hypocritically done so first. You might notice that I never make an issue of it
with anyone else. Now you foolishly choose to make **** up about me to try to
compensate for your well known failures in life. Two old sayings come to mind.
"Look before you leap" and "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones."

[S888Wheel]

>
>Part of the Weil hypocrisy act - spelling errors and typos don't matter when
>he carelessly makes them by the bundle, but screw up just once, and he
>shouts it from the housetops.

If you don't like it why do you do the same? Hypocrite.

[dave weil]

On 01 Mar 2004 16:18:13 GMT, (S888Wheel) wrote:

>>
>>Yustabe, like sockpuppet wheel, you made it our business when you first
>>attacked others based on their occupations. Just another example of your
>>hypocrisy and predatory behavior.
>>
>>
>
>Bull****. You attacked Dave Weil for being a waiter despite the fact that you
>are unemployed and have never amounted to anything in the professional world. I
>was calling you on your hypocrisy. That hypocrisy is a fact that is independent
>of my occupation. I never would have made an issue of it had you not
>hypocritically done so first. You might notice that I never make an issue of it
>with anyone else. Now you foolishly choose to make **** up about me to try to
>compensate for your well known failures in life. Two old sayings come to mind.
>"Look before you leap" and "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones."

How did the hearing go?

[Arny Krueger]

"S888Wheel" > wrote in message


>> Yustabe, like sockpuppet wheel, you made it our business when you
>> first attacked others based on their occupations. Just another
>> example of your hypocrisy and predatory behavior.

> Bull****.

More evidence that you like to act like you are too ignorant to be accused
of lying, sockpuppet wheel.

>You attacked Dave Weil for being a waiter despite the fact
> that you are unemployed and have never amounted to anything in the
> professional world.

Horsefeathers. You may be ignorant enough to believe that Weil was as pure
as the driven snow before I turned his own attacks back at him this way,
sockpuppet wheel. More likely, you know better but need to have a one-sided
view to continue your vendetta against me.

Tell us about your employment and professional accomplishments, sockpuppet
wheel.

(This always puts a nice quick end any on-topic responses from you!)

Let the incredible edible sockpuppet wheel "Look over there, cake" act begin
again, for the forty-eleventh time.

[Arny Krueger]

"dave weil" > wrote in message

> On 01 Mar 2004 16:18:13 GMT, (S888Wheel) wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Yustabe, like sockpuppet wheel, you made it our business when you
>>> first attacked others based on their occupations. Just another
>>> example of your hypocrisy and predatory behavior.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Bull****. You attacked Dave Weil for being a waiter despite the fact
>> that you are unemployed and have never amounted to anything in the
>> professional world. I was calling you on your hypocrisy. That
>> hypocrisy is a fact that is independent of my occupation. I never
>> would have made an issue of it had you not hypocritically done so
>> first. You might notice that I never make an issue of it with anyone
>> else. Now you foolishly choose to make **** up about me to try to
>> compensate for your well known failures in life. Two old sayings
>> come to mind. "Look before you leap" and "people in glass houses
>> shouldn't throw stones."
>
> How did the hearing go?

He still doesn't have any. That's why he switched hobbies to photography.

[Arny Krueger]

"S888Wheel" > wrote in message

>> Part of the Weil hypocrisy act - spelling errors and typos don't
>> matter when he carelessly makes them by the bundle, but screw up
>> just once, and he shouts it from the housetops.
>
> If you don't like it why do you do the same?

Because Weil makes on the average about three times as many typos and
spelling errors as I do. He started it. It's fun to hoist him up by his own
petard, again and again.

> Hypocrite.

More like, opportunist. I wouldn't have a leg to stand on if either of you
had the brains equal or greater than that of a carrot.

[dave weil]

On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:51:06 -0500, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>"S888Wheel" > wrote in message

>>> Part of the Weil hypocrisy act - spelling errors and typos don't
>>> matter when he carelessly makes them by the bundle, but screw up
>>> just once, and he shouts it from the housetops.
>>
>> If you don't like it why do you do the same?
>
>Because Weil makes on the average about three times as many typos and
>spelling errors as I do.

This, of course, is a total lie and completely unuspportable.

>He started it. It's fun to hoist him up by his own
>petard, again and again.
>
>> Hypocrite.
>
>More like, opportunist.

Total lack of grammatical knowledge noted.

>I wouldn't have a leg to stand on if either of you
>had the brains equal or greater than that of a carrot.

At least you finally got the apostrophe thing correct in the first
paragraph. Was it accidental?

BTW, I note that you tacitly admit that you lied about the state of my
MG-1s. Thanks, Arnold.

[S888Wheel]

>
>>>
>>>Yustabe, like sockpuppet wheel, you made it our business when you first
>>>attacked others based on their occupations. Just another example of your
>>>hypocrisy and predatory behavior.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Bull****. You attacked Dave Weil for being a waiter despite the fact that
>you
>>are unemployed and have never amounted to anything in the professional
>world. I
>>was calling you on your hypocrisy. That hypocrisy is a fact that is
>independent
>>of my occupation. I never would have made an issue of it had you not
>>hypocritically done so first. You might notice that I never make an issue of
>it
>>with anyone else. Now you foolishly choose to make **** up about me to try
>to
>>compensate for your well known failures in life. Two old sayings come to
>mind.
>>"Look before you leap" and "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones."
>
>How did the hearing go?
>
>
>
>
>
>

I couldn't go. I was working. I have to refile for the default judgement. The
clerk lost the summons. There is another meeting scheduled for April. It should
be over before then.

[S888Wheel]

>
>> How did the hearing go?
>
>He still doesn't have any. That's why he switched hobbies to photography.

Still ****ing clueless I see. Photographt is not one of my hobbies. One does
not have to drop one hobby to have another and my hearing is just fine. Care to
compare hearing acuity Arny?

[Arny Krueger]

"S888Wheel" > wrote in message


> I couldn't go.

Fear of being humiliated by a court clerk.

>I was working.

....with his right hand.

>I have to refile for the default judgment.

Yawn.

>The clerk lost the summons.

Likely story.

>There is another meeting scheduled for April.

On or about April 1, no doubt.

> It should be over before then.

Hey, maybe sockpuppet wheel has finally wised up and is abandoning his
little adventure.

[Arny Krueger]

"S888Wheel" > wrote in message

>>> How did the hearing go?
>>
>> He still doesn't have any. That's why he switched hobbies to
>> photography.
>
> Still ****ing clueless I see. Photographt is not one of my hobbies.

I'm quite sure that Photographt is not one of your hobbies.

[S888Wheel]

>
>>> Yustabe, like sockpuppet wheel, you made it our business when you
>>> first attacked others based on their occupations. Just another
>>> example of your hypocrisy and predatory behavior.
>
>> Bull****.
>
>More evidence that you like to act like you are too ignorant to be accused
>of lying, sockpuppet wheel.

Your stupdity never fails to amaze me.

>
>>You attacked Dave Weil for being a waiter despite the fact
>> that you are unemployed and have never amounted to anything in the
>> professional world.

>
>Horsefeathers.

Nope. It is a fact.


> You may be ignorant enough to believe that Weil was as pure
>as the driven snow before I turned his own attacks back at him this way,
>sockpuppet wheel.

Strawman. I never claimed anything one way or another about Dave dip****. You
attacked him for being a waiter. That is a fact. The attacks I saw were made
without any provocation from Dave.


> More likely, you know better but need to have a one-sided
>view to continue your vendetta against me.

Claims of mind reading noted. Funny you should whine about this sort of thing
so often.


>
>Tell us about your employment and professional accomplishments, sockpuppet
>wheel.

Why?

>
>(This always puts a nice quick end any on-topic responses from you!)
>

No it doesn't.

>
>Let the incredible edible sockpuppet wheel "Look over there, cake" act begin
>again, for the forty-eleventh time.
>

Like I said, my occupation and achievements in life have no bearing on your
hypocrisy. You attacked Dave for being a waiter even though you are unemployed
and have lived a life of underachievement and have admittedly never excelled at
anything. There is no prerequisit that I brag about my career or achievements
in life to call you on your hypocrisy. As I have said so many times, I see no
reason to grand stand over what I have done in my life since none of it is
audio related. Besides, Art gave you all the information you need to find out
everything you seem to want to know. I guess you are just too stupid or too
lazy or both to find these things out for yourself.

[S888Wheel]

>>> Part of the Weil hypocrisy act - spelling errors and typos don't
>>> matter when he carelessly makes them by the bundle, but screw up
>>> just once, and he shouts it from the housetops.
>>
>> If you don't like it why do you do the same?
>
>Because Weil makes on the average about three times as many typos and
>spelling errors as I do.

That is "definately" bull**** and an illogical rationalization.

> He started it.

That makes it OK for you to do it to others? More bull**** rationalizations for
your hypocrisy.

>It's fun to hoist him up by his own
>petard, again and again.

And Saddam declared victory against U.N. forces. Everyone has their own
perspective.

>
>> Hypocrite.
>
>More like, opportunist.

No. Hypocrite is dead on. You do it and then complain when others do it to you.

> I wouldn't have a leg to stand on if either of you
>had the brains equal or greater than that of a carrot.
>

But you don't have a leg to stand on. Haven't you figured out why you keep
falling on your ass?

[Arny Krueger]

"S888Wheel" > wrote in message


> Your stupdity never fails to amaze me.

I'm quite sure that I have no stupdity at all, sockpuppet wheel.

>>"S888Wheel" > wrote in message


>>> You attacked Dave Weil for being a waiter despite the fact
>>> that you are unemployed and have never amounted to anything in the
>>> professional world.

>> Tell us about your employment and professional accomplishments,
>> sockpuppet wheel.
>
> Why?

Because you raised the issue of my employment and professional
accomplishments.

>> (This always puts a nice quick end any on-topic responses from you!)

> No it doesn't.

It did this time, last time, the time before that...

>> Let the incredible edible sockpuppet wheel "Look over there, cake"
>> act begin again, for the forty-eleventh time.

> Like I said, my occupation and achievements in life have no bearing
> on your hypocrisy.

That's right sockpuppet wheel, but it's irrelevant to the fact that you have
repeatedly attacked me for my employment and professional accomplishments,
while continuing to conceal your own. It's pretty clear that you have some
embarrassing facts to hide, just like your good buddy Yustabe.

Like I said just a little while ago:

Let the incredible edible sockpuppet wheel "Look over there, cake" act begin
again, for the forty-eleventh time.

This would be the forty-twelfth time, right?

[S888Wheel]

>> Your stupdity never fails to amaze me.
>
>I'm quite sure that I have no stupdity at all, sockpuppet wheel.
>

You are clearly to stupid or hypocritical to deal with a typo. You are
amazingly stupid.

[S888Wheel]

>>>> How did the hearing go?
>>>
>>> He still doesn't have any. That's why he switched hobbies to
>>> photography.
>>
>> Still ****ing clueless I see. Photographt is not one of my hobbies.
>
>I'm quite sure that Photographt is not one of your hobbies.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

"definately" not. Hypocrite.

[Arny Krueger]

"S888Wheel" > wrote in message

>>> Your stupdity never fails to amaze me.
>>
>> I'm quite sure that I have no stupdity at all, sockpuppet wheel.
>>
>
> You are clearly to stupid or hypocritical to deal with a typo. You are
> amazingly stupid.

That would be "stupd", according to your dictionary, no?

[S888Wheel]

>
>> I couldn't go.
>
>Fear of being humiliated by a court clerk.
>

Nope. i can' t let this get in the way of a four figure pay check. I am sorry
that a poverty stricken unemployed loooser such as yourself can't relate to my
situation. By the way. the meeting would have been with the judge not the
clerk. What was your excuse for not showing? You know if you had you would have
won. You would have had your expenses covered as well by sanctions. You
certainly can't use work as an excuse for not showing up.

>
>>I was working.
>
>...with his right hand.

I suppose that is what you think of when the word work is mentioned.

>
>>I have to refile for the default judgment.
>
>Yawn.
>
>>The clerk lost the summons.
>
>Likely story.

Call and ask.

>
>>There is another meeting scheduled for April.
>
>On or about April 1, no doubt.

I guess you didn't get the notice yet.

>
>> It should be over before then.
>
>Hey, maybe sockpuppet wheel has finally wised up and is abandoning his
>little adventure.

I am certainly not letting it interfere with my career. What is your excuse?

[Arny Krueger]

"S888Wheel" > wrote in message

>>> I couldn't go.
>>
>> Fear of being humiliated by a court clerk.
>>
>
> Nope. i can' t let this get in the way of a four figure pay check.

OK, so you'd be docked a full day's pay - up to $99.99 if you had yet
another unexcused absence.

[S888Wheel]

>>>> Your stupdity never fails to amaze me.
>>>
>>> I'm quite sure that I have no stupdity at all, sockpuppet wheel.
>>>
>>
>> You are clearly to stupid or hypocritical to deal with a typo. You are
>> amazingly stupid.
>
>That would be "stupd", according to your dictionary, no?
>
>

No. You are still struggling with the concept of typos I see. Of course we must
remember that you blame your own technical incompetence on typos. Listen to any
Fold es Eg recordings lately? LOL

[Arny Krueger]

"S888Wheel" > wrote in message

>>>>> Your stupdity never fails to amaze me.
>>>>
>>>> I'm quite sure that I have no stupdity at all, sockpuppet wheel.
>>>>
>>>
>>> You are clearly to stupid or hypocritical to deal with a typo. You
>>> are amazingly stupid.

>> That would be "stupd", according to your dictionary, no?

> No. You are still struggling with the concept of typos I see.

Nice job of projection, sockpuppet wheel. It is you who is obviously
struggling with typos, and losing again and again.

>Of course we must remember that you blame your own technical
> incompetence on typos.

Prove it.

[S888Wheel]

>
>>> Fear of being humiliated by a court clerk.
>>>
>>
>> Nope. i can' t let this get in the way of a four figure pay check.
>
>OK, so you'd be docked a full day's pay - up to $99.99 if you had yet
>another unexcused absence.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I should have known some one in your state of poverty would have such a skewed
perspective on what is meant by "four figured." Here is a hint. It is 1,000
dollars or more. Even a dip**** like you should understand that hint.

[Arny Krueger]

"S888Wheel" > wrote in message

>>>> Fear of being humiliated by a court clerk.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Nope. i can' t let this get in the way of a four figure pay check.
>>
>> OK, so you'd be docked a full day's pay - up to $99.99 if you had
>> yet another unexcused absence.

> I should have known some one in your state of poverty would have such
> a skewed perspective on what is meant by "four figured."

You're lying again sockpuppet wheel. You didn't say "four figured".

> Here is a
> hint. It is 1,000 dollars or more. Even a dip**** like you should
> understand that hint.

Prove your claim by posting your occupation and employer's name and address.
Other than that, we can safely assume its just another one of your lies.

[S888Wheel]

>>>> I couldn't go.
>>>
>>> Fear of being humiliated by a court clerk.
>>>
>>
>> Nope. i can' t let this get in the way of a four figure pay check.
>
>OK, so you'd be docked a full day's pay - up to $99.99 if you had yet
>another unexcused absence.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
I noticed you didn't respond to the following...

I am sorry
that a poverty stricken unemployed loooser such as yourself can't relate to my
situation.

By your standards that is an admission. thank you for confirming my assertion
that you are a poverty stricken unemployed loooser.

You also ignored this bit.

By the way. the meeting would have been with the judge not the
clerk. What was your excuse for not showing? You know if you had you would have
won. You would have had your expenses covered as well by sanctions. You
certainly can't use work as an excuse for not showing up.

Are you ignoring it because you feel so stupid or are you just ashamed to admit
you couldn't afford the trip even though you had nothing better to do?

[Arny Krueger]

"S888Wheel" > wrote in message

>>>>> I couldn't go.
>>>>
>>>> Fear of being humiliated by a court clerk.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Nope. i can' t let this get in the way of a four figure pay check.
>>
>> OK, so you'd be docked a full day's pay - up to $99.99 if you had
>> yet another unexcused absence.

> I noticed you didn't respond to the following...

I'm under no obligation to respond to your lies.

BTW, in accordance with your own standards you have no job, sockpuppet
wheel.

[S888Wheel]

>>>>>> Your stupdity never fails to amaze me.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm quite sure that I have no stupdity at all, sockpuppet wheel.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You are clearly to stupid or hypocritical to deal with a typo. You
>>>> are amazingly stupid.
>
>>> That would be "stupd", according to your dictionary, no?
>
>> No. You are still struggling with the concept of typos I see.
>
>Nice job of projection, sockpuppet wheel. It is you who is obviously
>struggling with typos, and losing again and again.

Once again you show your stupidity. I said you were struggling with the
*concept* of typos.

>
>>Of course we must remember that you blame your own technical
>> incompetence on typos.
>
>Prove it

Asked and answered. If you doubt it just do a Google search if you are not too
lazy or inept.

[S888Wheel]

>>>>> Fear of being humiliated by a court clerk.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nope. i can' t let this get in the way of a four figure pay check.
>>>
>>> OK, so you'd be docked a full day's pay - up to $99.99 if you had
>>> yet another unexcused absence.
>
>> I should have known some one in your state of poverty would have such
>> a skewed perspective on what is meant by "four figured."
>
>You're lying again sockpuppet wheel. You didn't say "four figured".
>

I'm not lying. I was just using the correct tense. You have struggled with this
beofre so it is no surprise that it would go over your head.

>
>> Here is a
>> hint. It is 1,000 dollars or more. Even a dip**** like you should
>> understand that hint.
>
>Prove your claim by posting your occupation and employer's name and address.

I am not going to try to prove anything to an idiot like you. You have already
proven that you are too stupid to figure out my occupation despite all the
obvious clues Art has given you. Why would I deny myself the entertainment fo
seeing you flounder in your stupidity?


>Other than that, we can safely assume its just another one of your lies.
>
>

We? Do you have a retarded frog in your pocket? You are the only one who has
asked about my occupation and failed to figure out what it is. Prove that I
have ever lied on RAO. Prove that you even know what the dictionary meaning of
"lies" actually is. I must say though, it speaks volumes about your own poverty
given you find a four figure payday so unbelievable that you would demand
proof. Do you think those on RAO that know what I do for a living find it
unbelievable?

[Arny Krueger]

"S888Wheel" > wrote in message


>You are the only one
> who has asked about my occupation and failed to figure out what it
> is.

Who else asked you about your occupation?

Who else did you attack on the grounds of occupation and professional
accomplishments?

[S888Wheel]

>>>>>> I couldn't go.
>>>>>
>>>>> Fear of being humiliated by a court clerk.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nope. i can' t let this get in the way of a four figure pay check.
>>>
>>> OK, so you'd be docked a full day's pay - up to $99.99 if you had
>>> yet another unexcused absence.
>
>> I noticed you didn't respond to the following...
>
>I'm under no obligation to respond to your lies.

No lies were told. I guess I should repost what you deleted out of obvious
shame.

i can' t let this get in the way of a four figure pay check. I am sorry
that a poverty stricken unemployed loooser such as yourself can't relate to my
situation. By the way. the meeting would have been with the judge not the
clerk. What was your excuse for not showing? You know if you had you would have
won. You would have had your expenses covered as well by sanctions. You
certainly can't use work as an excuse for not showing up.


All of the above is true. You are free to disprove any of these assertions.


>
>BTW, in accordance with your own standards you have no job, sockpuppet
>wheel.
>

Wrong. Thanks for showing us you are incapable of understanding my posts.

[Sockpuppet Yustabe]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote in message
>
> > "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >>
> >> "Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >>>
> >>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> >>> ...
> >>>>
> >>>> "Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote in message
> >>>> ...
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> >>>>> ...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote in message
> >>>>>> ...
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> >>>>>>> ...
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I actually discovered these waiting for the trash at the curb.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> What day do they deliver your trash?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> Were you in the waste hauling business?
> >>>>>> Nothing to be ashamed of.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I took usenet losers like you to the landfill
> >>>>>
> >>>> Socks, are you in chronic pain, from arthritis or back injury?
> >>>> That can make a person sour without realizing it.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> I am well aware of my 'sourness' towards you.
> >>>
> >> So, what do (did) you do for a living?
> >
> >
> > None of your business
>
> Yustabe, like sockpuppet wheel, you made it our business when you first
> attacked others based on their occupations. Just another example of your
> hypocrisy and predatory behavior.
>

I have a lot of respect for guys that design ashtrays for Omnis.




----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

[S888Wheel]

>
>>You are the only one
>> who has asked about my occupation and failed to figure out what it
>> is.
>
>Who else asked you about your occupation?

Howard Ferstler. So I have to correct myself. You are one of two people who has
asked and failed to figure it out. A few others have asked and I have told them
but they aren't sociopaths.

>
>Who else did you attack on the grounds of occupation and professional
>accomplishments?
>

I have stuck to those who have hypocritically done it to others. You are the
only one. By the way, pointing out one's hypocrisy is not an attack. It is
fair. That is what I have done. If you had never made it an issue I never would
have made it an issue. Kharma is a bitch when you are an asshole.

[Arny Krueger]

"S888Wheel" > wrote in message

>>> You are the only one
>>> who has asked about my occupation and failed to figure out what it
>>> is.
>>
>> Who else asked you about your occupation?
>
> Howard Ferstler. So I have to correct myself. You are one of two
> people who has asked and failed to figure it out. A few others have
> asked and I have told them but they aren't sociopaths.

Paranoia and cowardice noted.

>> Who else did you attack on the grounds of occupation and professional
>> accomplishments?

> I have stuck to those who have hypocritically done it to others.

The why haven't you attacked David Weil, George Middius, Sockupppet Yustabe,
and Marc Phillips, just to name a few well-known offenders?

> You are the only one.

You've already forgotten the lie you purpounded at the top of the post.
Howard Ferstler is the other one, or so you said.

>By the way, pointing out one's hypocrisy is not an attack. It is fair.
That is what I have done.

It's a clear case of "look over there, cake!".

> If you had never made
> it an issue I never would have made it an issue.

If David Weil, George Middius, Sockupppet Yustabe, and Marc Phillips, just
to name a few well-known offenders hadn't have done it, I would have never
made it an issue. Your inability to see the faults of your co-conspirators
is noted.

> Kharma is a bitch when you are an asshole.

That is obviously the story of your life, sockpuppet Wheel.

[S888Wheel]

>>>> You are the only one
>>>> who has asked about my occupation and failed to figure out what it
>>>> is.
>>>
>>> Who else asked you about your occupation?
>>
>> Howard Ferstler. So I have to correct myself. You are one of two
>> people who has asked and failed to figure it out. A few others have
>> asked and I have told them but they aren't sociopaths.
>
>Paranoia and cowardice noted.

It's just common sense not to give personal information to a sociopath. Besides
it is far more entertaining to see you make an ass of yourself over your
inability to do a simple Google search. Like I said, Art gave you all the info
you need to find all the answers to your questions. Thanks for proving you
can't catch a clue even when you are slapped in the face with it.

>
>>> Who else did you attack on the grounds of occupation and professional
>>> accomplishments?
>
>> I have stuck to those who have hypocritically done it to others.
>
>The why haven't you attacked David Weil, George Middius, Sockupppet Yustabe,
>and Marc Phillips, just to name a few well-known offenders?
>

None of them have been hypocrites about the subject of occupations.

>
>> You are the only one.
>
>You've already forgotten the lie you purpounded at the top of the post.
>Howard Ferstler is the other one, or so you said.
>


What are you trying to say? This time in English please.


>
>> Howard Ferstler. So I have to correct myself. You are one of two
>> people who has asked and failed to figure it out. A few others have
>> asked and I have told them but they aren't sociopaths.
>
>Paranoia and cowardice noted.

In your fantasy world.

>
>>> Who else did you attack on the grounds of occupation and professional
>>> accomplishments?
>
>> I have stuck to those who have hypocritically done it to others.
>
>The why haven't you attacked David Weil, George Middius, Sockupppet Yustabe,
>and Marc Phillips, just to name a few well-known offenders?
>

Asked and answered.


>
>> You are the only one.
>
>You've already forgotten the lie you purpounded at the top of the post.
>Howard Ferstler is the other one, or so you said.
>

What are you trying to say? Maybe you should ask again using real words only.
WTF is "purpounded?"

>
>>By the way, pointing out one's hypocrisy is not an attack. It is fair.
>That is what I have done.
>
>It's a clear case of "look over there, cake!".

Wrong.

>
>> If you had never made
>> it an issue I never would have made it an issue.
>
>If David Weil, George Middius, Sockupppet Yustabe, and Marc Phillips, just
>to name a few well-known offenders hadn't have done it, I would have never
>made it an issue. Your inability to see the faults of your co-conspirators
>is noted.

Bull****.

>
>> Kharma is a bitch when you are an asshole.
>
>That is obviously the story of your life, sockpuppet Wheel.
>

Do you have anything original to say? "I know you are but what am I? I know you
are but what am I?" No wonder you have never excelled at anything, You lack
imagination and originality for starters.

[Arny Krueger]

"S888Wheel" > wrote in message

>>>>> You are the only one
>>>>> who has asked about my occupation and failed to figure out what it
>>>>> is.
>>>>
>>>> Who else asked you about your occupation?
>>>
>>> Howard Ferstler. So I have to correct myself. You are one of two
>>> people who has asked and failed to figure it out. A few others have
>>> asked and I have told them but they aren't sociopaths.

>> Paranoia and cowardice noted.

> It's just common sense not to give personal information to a
> sociopath.

It's an example of your hypocrisy and cowardice that you continue to make
public attacks on my work and professional and then hide behind your
irrational fears, to avoid revealing the nature of your own work and
professional non-accomplishments.

>Besides it is far more entertaining to see you make an ass
> of yourself over your inability to do a simple Google search.

Show me how, sockpuppet wheel.

> Like I said, Art gave you all the info you need to find all the answers
to
> your questions.

If it's so easy to find why not just summarize it for us here?

> Thanks for proving you can't catch a clue even when
> you are slapped in the face with it.

It's far more fun to watch you hide behind Sockpuppet Yustabe's skirts.

>
>>>> Who else did you attack on the grounds of occupation and
>>>> professional accomplishments?
>>
>>> I have stuck to those who have hypocritically done it to others.
>>
>> The why haven't you attacked David Weil, George Middius, Sockpuppet
>> Yustabe, and Marc Phillips, just to name a few well-known offenders?

> None of them have been hypocrites about the subject of occupations.

I guess you are so stupid that you actually believe that, sockpuppet wheel.
Therefore you aren't lying.

>> You are the only one.

>> You've already forgotten the lie you purpounded at the top of the
>> post. Howard Ferstler is the other one, or so you said.

> What are you trying to say? This time in English please.

I guess you are so stupid that you actually believe that, sockpuppet wheel.
Therefore you aren't lying.

>>> Howard Ferstler. So I have to correct myself. You are one of two
>>> people who has asked and failed to figure it out. A few others have
>>> asked and I have told them but they aren't sociopaths.

>> Paranoia and cowardice noted.

> In your fantasy world.

You keep changing your story, sockpuppet wheel.

>>>> Who else did you attack on the grounds of occupation and
>>>> professional accomplishments?

>>> I have stuck to those who have hypocritically done it to others.

>> The why haven't you attacked David Weil, George Middius, Sockpuppet
>> Yustabe, and Marc Phillips, just to name a few well-known offenders?

> Asked and answered.

I guess you are so stupid that you actually believe that, sockpuppet wheel.
Therefore you aren't lying.

>>> You are the only one.

>> You've already forgotten the lie you purpounded at the top of the
>> post. Howard Ferstler is the other one, or so you said.

> What are you trying to say? Maybe you should ask again using real
> words only. WTF is "purpounded?"

I guess you are so stupid that you can't decode a word with a typo in it,
sockpuppet wheel. Shall I pull up all the nasty things you've recently said
about people who can't do that?

>>> By the way, pointing out one's hypocrisy is not an attack. It is
>>> fair.

>> That is what I have done.

>> It's a clear case of "look over there, cake!".

> Wrong.

OSAF.

>>> If you had never made
>>> it an issue I never would have made it an issue.

>> If David Weil, George Middius, Sockpuppet Yustabe, and Marc
>> Phillips, just to name a few well-known offenders hadn't have done
>> it, I would have never made it an issue. Your inability to see the
>> faults of your co-conspirators is noted.

> Bull****.

Fact. Quit hiding from the truth, sockpuppet. BTW, thanks for admitting that
these people are your co-conspirators.

>>> Kharma is a bitch when you are an asshole.

>> That is obviously the story of your life, sockpuppet Wheel.

> Do you have anything original to say?

I guess you are so stupid that you actually believe that, sockpuppet wheel.
Therefore you aren't lying.


>"I know you are but what am I?

You are a paranoid fool who hides behind the lies of others, sockpuppet
wheel.

> I know you are but what am I?"

You are a person who tells lie after lie to conceal his own inadequacies,
sockpuppet wheel.

> No wonder you have never excelled at
> anything, You lack imagination and originality for starters.

Tell us about how your great imagination and wonderful originality has made
you a success in your occupation, sockpuppet wheel.

Then sockpuppet wheel, please explain to the nice people why you are such a
success that you just wasted your money on an inadequate, out-of-date
off-the-shelf computer, and then bragged on an audio forum about attaching
some relatively cheap non-audio-related peripheral to it.

[S888Wheel]

>>>>>> You are the only one
>>>>>> who has asked about my occupation and failed to figure out what it
>>>>>> is.
>>>>>
>>>>> Who else asked you about your occupation?
>>>>
>>>> Howard Ferstler. So I have to correct myself. You are one of two
>>>> people who has asked and failed to figure it out. A few others have
>>>> asked and I have told them but they aren't sociopaths.
>
>>> Paranoia and cowardice noted.
>
>> It's just common sense not to give personal information to a
>> sociopath.

>
>It's an example of your hypocrisy and cowardice that you continue to make
>public attacks on my work and professional

Your work and your professional? What is your "professional?" Is it like a
confessional? Seriously though, it is your hypocrisy that I am attacking not
your lack of achievement. If you weren't going after Dave and now blindly going
after me over such issues, I never woud have brought it up with you.


>and then hide behind your
>irrational fears, to avoid revealing the nature of your own work and
>professional non-accomplishments.

Well, you may think it is irrational to not feed sociopaths with personal
information but you would be in the minority on that opinion. I see you make no
denial about being a sociopath though. So by your standards that would be an
admission. By the way what are you asking for? Are you asking to know my
acomplishments or non-acomplishments? There are things I have yet to accomplish
in my profession.

>
>>Besides it is far more entertaining to see you make an ass
>> of yourself over your inability to do a simple Google search.
>
>Show me how, sockpuppet wheel.

You will have to learn to do Google searches on your own. I'm not going to
teach a sociopath how to better stalk me. Thanks for the admission though your
cry for help though.


>
>> Like I said, Art gave you all the info you need to find all the answers
>to
>> your questions.
>
>If it's so easy to find why not just summarize it for us here?
>

It is far more entertaining to see you flounder in your stupidity. It's funny
to see you ask the same questions over and over again. I guess this simple
answer just keeps sailing right over your head.

>
>> Thanks for proving you can't catch a clue even when
>> you are slapped in the face with it.
>
>It's far more fun to watch you hide behind Sockpuppet Yustabe's skirts.
>

You have no idea how funny you are.


>
>>>>> Who else did you attack on the grounds of occupation and
>>>>> professional accomplishments?
>>>
>>>> I have stuck to those who have hypocritically done it to others.
>>>
>>> The why haven't you attacked David Weil, George Middius, Sockpuppet
>>> Yustabe, and Marc Phillips, just to name a few well-known offenders?
>
>> None of them have been hypocrites about the subject of occupations.
>

>
>I guess you are so stupid that you actually believe that, sockpuppet wheel.
>Therefore you aren't lying.

Feel free to prove otherwise. Show an example of any of them making unprovoked
attacks on other people's occupations.


>
>>> You are the only one.
>
>>> You've already forgotten the lie you purpounded at the top of the
>>> post. Howard Ferstler is the other one, or so you said.
>
>> What are you trying to say? This time in English please.
>
>I guess you are so stupid that you actually believe that, sockpuppet wheel.
>Therefore you aren't lying.
>

You are just babbling now. You sound like Rainman. Is this the beginings of one
of your meltdowns where you repeat the same phrase over and over again even if
it makes no sense in the context of the post?


>
>>>> Howard Ferstler. So I have to correct myself. You are one of two
>>>> people who has asked and failed to figure it out. A few others have
>>>> asked and I have told them but they aren't sociopaths.
>
>>> Paranoia and cowardice noted.
>
>> In your fantasy world.
>
>You keep changing your story, sockpuppet wheel.

No. You live in a fantasy world. I have never said otherwise.

>
>>>>> Who else did you attack on the grounds of occupation and
>>>>> professional accomplishments?
>
>>>> I have stuck to those who have hypocritically done it to others.
>
>>> The why haven't you attacked David Weil, George Middius, Sockpuppet
>>> Yustabe, and Marc Phillips, just to name a few well-known offenders?
>
>> Asked and answered.
>
>I guess you are so stupid that you actually believe that, sockpuppet wheel.
>Therefore you aren't lying.

Yep. Meltdown.


>
>>>> You are the only one.
>
>>> You've already forgotten the lie you purpounded at the top of the
>>> post. Howard Ferstler is the other one, or so you said.
>
>> What are you trying to say? Maybe you should ask again using real
>> words only. WTF is "purpounded?"
>
>I guess you are so stupid that you can't decode a word with a typo in it,
>sockpuppet wheel.

No Arny that would be you. Please show us the typo in this word. What letter is
missing or needs to be replaced to turn "purpounded" into a real word? It must
be a small typo since you repeated the same exact mistake. Show us that this
was a typo Arny. Liar.

> Shall I pull up all the nasty things you've recently said
>about people who can't do that?

Thanks for the admission that you cannot navigate typos. Now show us what word
you were trying to *spell* but mangled beyond recognition.

>
>>>> By the way, pointing out one's hypocrisy is not an attack. It is
>>>> fair.
>
>>> That is what I have done.
>
>>> It's a clear case of "look over there, cake!".
>
>> Wrong.
>
>OSAF.

No. opinion stated as opinion. But you have alreadt demonstrated an inability
to tell the difference.


>
>>>> If you had never made
>>>> it an issue I never would have made it an issue.
>
>>> If David Weil, George Middius, Sockpuppet Yustabe, and Marc
>>> Phillips, just to name a few well-known offenders hadn't have done
>>> it, I would have never made it an issue. Your inability to see the
>>> faults of your co-conspirators is noted.
>
>> Bull****.
>
>Fact.

Bull****


>Quit hiding from the truth, sockpuppet. BTW, thanks for admitting that
>these people are your co-conspirators.

By your twisted standards this would be an admission not by mine. Thanks for
confirming all your previous admissions by your standards though.

>
>>>> Kharma is a bitch when you are an asshole.
>
>>> That is obviously the story of your life, sockpuppet Wheel.
>
>> Do you have anything original to say?
>
>I guess you are so stupid that you actually believe that, sockpuppet wheel.
>Therefore you aren't lying.

Meltdown complete. LOL

>
>
>>"I know you are but what am I?
>
>You are a paranoid fool who hides behind the lies of others, sockpuppet
>wheel.

Nonsense


>
>> I know you are but what am I?"
>
>You are a person who tells lie after lie to conceal his own inadequacies,
>sockpuppet wheel.

Prove that I have told any lies. Prove it now or admit you are lying.


>
>> No wonder you have never excelled at
>> anything, You lack imagination and originality for starters.
>
>Tell us about how your great imagination and wonderful originality has made
>you a success in your occupation, sockpuppet wheel.

I already told you such things are not audio related and do not belong on and
audio forum IMO. And you are so entertaining. I have no intention of spoiling
that.


>
>Then sockpuppet wheel, please explain to the nice people why you are such a
>success

Why would I want to bore people with stories about my success?

>that you just wasted your money on an inadequate, out-of-date
>off-the-shelf computer,

Actually it is current and more than adaquate to do the work for which I bought
it.

> and then bragged on an audio forum about attaching
>some relatively cheap non-audio-related peripheral to it.


Thanks for showing your ignorance on computers and peripherals. Maybe you can
show us your ignorance on music again and tell us more about your listening
sessions with that recording group Fold es Eg. I hear from a sociopathic music
hater who lied about listening to their music (chuckle) that they are just like
ELP even though they don't exist.

[normanstrong]

Has anyone tried to answer the question (as opposed to engaging in
personal attack?) I guess there would have to be agreement on the
meaning of the words "high-end" and "popular."

It would be fun to hear some answers to the question, right along with
definitions of the 2 aforementioned words.

Norm Strong

[Bruce J. Richman]

Norman Strong wrote:





>Has anyone tried to answer the question (as opposed to engaging in
>personal attack?) I guess there would have to be agreement on the
>meaning of the words "high-end" and "popular."
>
>It would be fun to hear some answers to the question, right along with
>definitions of the 2 aforementioned words.
>
>Norm Strong
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Among the brands mentioned is being very popular are Magnepan.

It's quite likely that "popular high-end speaker brands" are *not* the same as
"popular" brands. The latter could probably be defined purely on the basis of
sales volume, whereas the former would more likely be defined as part of a
much smaller "population" inhabited by speakers commonly sold in stores
generally considered to cater to audiophiles.




Bruce J. Richman

[MaxH]

> >Is there any evidence that the problem has been fixed by a change in the
> >manufacturing process?
>
> I think it depends on the model that you buy. Ribbon tweeters are
> pretty cool. I don't think that mine even has quasi-ribbons.

Old maggies like my MG-IIB's have aluminum wire glued to the mylar film, new ones
have a printed on flat wire bonded to the film like the traces of a PC board. I
have never heard of the new ones delaminating, but I had plenty of problems with
my old ones.

Maganaplanars are not only sold by mail order, there are many dealers who carry
the full line. I think they had one of their cheap models available as mail order
only, but not the full line.

Magnaplanars require a lot of power, and have limited dynamic range, especially
in the bass region. They are visually imposing, and difficult to place in the
room. Imaging is very good, but the old ones at least have a very tight "sweet
spot", and off axis sound is much, much less satisfying. I think that the true
ribons corrected this problem.

All in all, I would say that my MG-IIB's were a good introduction to high quality
sound, but they are so comprimised in other ways that I don't think I would go
back to using them.

[Joseph Oberlander]

MaxH wrote:

> All in all, I would say that my MG-IIB's were a good introduction to high quality
> sound, but they are so comprimised in other ways that I don't think I would go
> back to using them.

Their new curved center channel model appears to be a winner, though.
Very small, wall-mountable, and I'd suspect that they would have
stunning dispersion. A pair in the horizontal (wide) position
would have amazing dispersion throughout a room. In horizontal
orientation that would sound great as well. Tight sweet spot, but
great sound no matter where you sit or stand within it.

I'd think that the original horizontal would work better as you could
mount them along the top of a wall at the celing and angle them
at 30 degrees downwards or so to project down. The effect should be
more than acceptable - so that you get a huge soundstage.

I'll see if I can get the local shop next time I'm there to set up
a pair like this. For $300 each, it seems like a very good deal
if it works like I think it might.

[Joseph Oberlander]

Joseph Oberlander wrote:

> In horizontal
> orientation that would sound great as well. Tight sweet spot, but
> great sound no matter where you sit or stand within it.

Um - my bad - make that vertical position like two typical
MMG panels.

[WorldJAZZ]

"Joseph Oberlander" > wrote in message
link.net...
>
>
> Joseph Oberlander wrote:
>
> > In horizontal
> > orientation that would sound great as well. Tight sweet spot, but
> > great sound no matter where you sit or stand within it.
>
> Um - my bad - make that vertical position like two typical
> MMG panels.
>
Regardless of what they say, wall mounting a dipolar speaker is a bad idea.
Conventional cabinets absorb the backwave.
Wall mounting these speakers would cause the backwave to propagate right
through the panel.

I am not familiar with these, but if the back of the panel is bounded by
sound absorbing material, then it could work.

[Joseph Oberlander]

WorldJAZZ wrote:

> Regardless of what they say, wall mounting a dipolar speaker is a bad idea.
> Conventional cabinets absorb the backwave.
> Wall mounting these speakers would cause the backwave to propagate right
> through the panel.

These are curved and are mounted on a metal open frame - so the sound
isn't too terribly messed up from backwaves. Also, because it only goes
down to 100hz or so, the backwaves are minimal.

> I am not familiar with these, but if the back of the panel is bounded by
> sound absorbing material, then it could work.

That would also work - a piece of acoustic mat in addition would likely
be a great thing - thanks for pointing it out.

[Powell]

"Joseph Oberlander" wrote

> > Regardless of what they say, wall mounting a dipolar speaker
> > is a bad idea. Conventional cabinets absorb the backwave.
> > Wall mounting these speakers would cause the backwave to
> > propagate right through the panel.
>
> These are curved and are mounted on a metal open frame - so
> the sound isn't too terribly messed up from backwaves. Also,
> because it only goes down to 100hz or so, the backwaves are
> minimal.
>
Sound Labs has a product called the Sallie ($970 pair)
http://www.soundlab-speakers.com/accessories.htm
which acts on the backwave propergation phenomena.

[ScottW]

"Powell" > wrote in message >...
> "Joseph Oberlander" wrote
>
> > > Regardless of what they say, wall mounting a dipolar speaker
> > > is a bad idea. Conventional cabinets absorb the backwave.
> > > Wall mounting these speakers would cause the backwave to
> > > propagate right through the panel.
> >
> > These are curved and are mounted on a metal open frame - so
> > the sound isn't too terribly messed up from backwaves. Also,
> > because it only goes down to 100hz or so, the backwaves are
> > minimal.
> >
> Sound Labs has a product called the Sallie ($970 pair)
> http://www.soundlab-speakers.com/accessories.htm
> which acts on the backwave propergation phenomena.

Why would the lack of low frequency output reduce the
backwave? Something thick enough to effectively
absorb the backwave kind of negates the advantages of
wall mounting. Sally is more of a dispersion device.

ScottW

[Joseph Oberlander]

ScottW wrote:

>>Sound Labs has a product called the Sallie ($970 pair)
>>http://www.soundlab-speakers.com/accessories.htm
>>which acts on the backwave propergation phenomena.
>
>
> Why would the lack of low frequency output reduce the
> backwave? Something thick enough to effectively
> absorb the backwave kind of negates the advantages of
> wall mounting. Sally is more of a dispersion device.

It seems like that to me. If the distance to the rear wall
is less than the length of the soundwave, simple acoustic
tiles or mat or simmilar will negate almost all of it.

It's the under 100hz that is still directional that is
the problem - and maybe a dispersion device like this would
work better, but yeah - a big thing stuck to the wall isn't
exactly the right idea. Just get a pair of Magnepans and
mount them on edge if you're willing to have a foot or more
intrusion into the room. The new MMG-W has a piano type hinge
exactly for this purpose. Fold flat when not in use, move
out to 90 degrees when in use. No backwave problems.

[Powell]

"ScottW" wrote

> > > > Regardless of what they say, wall mounting a dipolar speaker
> > > > is a bad idea. Conventional cabinets absorb the backwave.
> > > > Wall mounting these speakers would cause the backwave to
> > > > propagate right through the panel.
> > >
> > > These are curved and are mounted on a metal open frame - so
> > > the sound isn't too terribly messed up from backwaves. Also,
> > > because it only goes down to 100hz or so, the backwaves are
> > > minimal.
> > >
> > Sound Labs has a product called the Sallie ($970 pair)
> > http://www.soundlab-speakers.com/accessories.htm
> > which acts on the backwave propergation phenomena.
>
> Why would the lack of low frequency output reduce the
> backwave?
>
???

> Something thick enough to effectively absorb the
> backwave kind of negates the advantages of
> wall mounting.
>
"effectively absorb "... please define this term?
Total (theoretical) absorption would have a negative
effect on a planar's sound stage performance. To
optimize performance is desirous to attenuate and
scatter the back wave.


> Sally is more of a dispersion device.
>
By design it does this, too.

[Frank O. Hodge]

Arny Krueger wrote:
> "S888Wheel" > wrote in message
>
>
>>>But are Magnepans truly "High End"?
>>
>>Unlike your speakers they are, if one is talking about their top
>>models
>
>
> Thanks for admitting that Magnepan is not a high end brand.
>
>
Except he's wrong. You're wrong, too.

As though anyone cares.