A while back, I may have heard that Magnepans were owned by a surprising
percentage of Stereophile subscribers, on the order of 20%.

"Robert Morein" wrote in message

A while back, I may have heard that Magnepans were owned by a
surprising percentage of Stereophile subscribers, on the order of 20%.

But are Magnepans truly "High End"?

Arny said:

"Robert Morein" wrote in message

A while back, I may have heard that Magnepans were owned by a
surprising percentage of Stereophile subscribers, on the order of 20%.

But are Magnepans truly "High End"?

Why wouldn't they be?

Boon

In article ,
George M. Middius wrote:

Marc Phillips said to Turd-on-a-Rope:

But are Magnepans truly "High End"?

Why wouldn't they be?

Presumably because they're bi-wired, which means, as every 'borg
knows, that they're full of snake oil or anti-Kroo dust or something.

And ribbons are so last century.

If Quad ESL 63s are "mid-eighties," why do they call them "63s"?

Stephen

But are Magnepans truly "High End"?

Unlike your speakers they are, if one is talking about their top models

George M. Middius wrote:


Marc Phillips said to Turd-on-a-Rope:

But are Magnepans truly "High End"?

Why wouldn't they be?

Presumably because they're bi-wired, which means, as every 'borg
knows, that they're full of snake oil or anti-Kroo dust or something.













Also, you can never trust the sound of speakers that don't 3-sided wooden
cabinets !!!

Besides, numerous audio reviewers have had the unmitigated gall to engage in
heresy by publishing quite positive subjective reviews about these speakers.

As if subjective reviews had any place in a "scientific" field such as audio.


LOT'S !!!!



Bruce J. Richman

"Marc Phillips" wrote in message

Arny said:

"Robert Morein" wrote in message

A while back, I may have heard that Magnepans were owned by a
surprising percentage of Stereophile subscribers, on the order of
20%.

But are Magnepans truly "High End"?

Why wouldn't they be?

Too practical

Too reliable

Not nearly costly enough.

Sold mail order.

"S888Wheel" wrote in message

But are Magnepans truly "High End"?

Unlike your speakers they are, if one is talking about their top
models

Thanks for admitting that Magnepan is not a high end brand.

But are Magnepans truly "High End"?

Unlike your speakers they are, if one is talking about their top
models

Thanks for admitting that Magnepan is not a high end brand.









Thanks for once again showing your complete lack of intelegence.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Marc Phillips" wrote in message

Arny said:

"Robert Morein" wrote in message

A while back, I may have heard that Magnepans were owned by a
surprising percentage of Stereophile subscribers, on the order of
20%.

But are Magnepans truly "High End"?

Why wouldn't they be?

Too practical

Too reliable

I have never heard anyone say they were too reliable.
Ten years ago, they were known for separation of the wires from the
membrane, which limited the lifespan of a panel to three years or so.
I heard that the manufacturing process improved, but I don't know what the
result, in terms of improved reliability, is.

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 12:21:26 -0500, "Robert Morein"
wrote:


"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Marc Phillips" wrote in message

Arny said:

"Robert Morein" wrote in message

A while back, I may have heard that Magnepans were owned by a
surprising percentage of Stereophile subscribers, on the order of
20%.

But are Magnepans truly "High End"?

Why wouldn't they be?

Too practical

Too reliable

I have never heard anyone say they were too reliable.
Ten years ago, they were known for separation of the wires from the
membrane, which limited the lifespan of a panel to three years or so.
I heard that the manufacturing process improved, but I don't know what the
result, in terms of improved reliability, is.

This delamination is indeed fairly common. I have a pair of MG-1s that
has this problem in one area of one panel (they had this problem when
I bought them at a steal of a price). I've read about quick fixes of
injecting the appropriate adhesive at the appropriate points, but I
don't know the particulars. Fortunately, Magnapan will replace the
panels for all of their speakers to bring them back to factory specs
(I *think* that they'll do all of their models). It ain't cheap, but
for the MG-1s, I think it's about $450 including shipping. It's
obviously not as easy or cheap as replacing conventional drivers, but
at least Magnapan still supports their older models by allowing the
speakers to perform virtually as they did when they came from the
factory (of course, packing Maggies for shipment is a bit of a pain as
well). Plus, all you need for a DIY fix is a hypodermic needle, the
appropriate glue and a little savvy. The only reason I haven't done it
is that I haven't had the requisite room to employ the speakers, so I
haven't bothered to really investigate the particulars.

This brings up another subcategory of high end that can be important,
and that's the tendency to support their discontinued models.
Obviously this is an ancillary definition.

I count the Tympani (sp?) as the first "high end" speaker system I
ever heard and the one that really propelled my interest in seeking
out better sound. And yes, they were definitely "high end" speakers by
any definition as they were among the most expensive speakers you
could buy at the time. I remember hearing ELP's "from the Beginning"
on a pair at a local high-end shop and the "transparency" was
astounding. Shortly after that, I met someone who actually had a pair
in his home system and I spent a lot of time enjoying the sound (I
think he was using Macintosh amplification).

Oh, BTW, I'm really enjoying my "new" TASCAM 122 cassette deck. This
should make Arnold mad.

(S888Wheel) wrote
But are Magnepans truly "High End"?

Unlike your speakers they are, if one is talking about their top
models

Thanks for admitting that Magnepan is not a high end brand.









Thanks for once again showing your complete lack of intelegence.

Thanks sockpuppet wheel for showing us you're inability to use a spell
checker Weil that which makes me look smarter than you LoT;"s ! ;-)

"dave weil" wrote in message


Oh, BTW, I'm really enjoying my "new" TASCAM 122 cassette deck. This
should make Arnold mad.

Why?

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 13:06:56 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"dave weil" wrote in message


Oh, BTW, I'm really enjoying my "new" TASCAM 122 cassette deck. This
should make Arnold mad.

Why?

Because it's obviously wasted on someone like me. Evil "subjectivists"
shouldn't be allowed to get their hands on stuff like this.

Oh, BTW, I'm really enjoying my "new" TASCAM 122 cassette deck. This
should make Arnold mad.


Any time you enjoy anything it makes him mad.

"dave weil" wrote in message

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 13:06:56 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"dave weil" wrote in message


Oh, BTW, I'm really enjoying my "new" TASCAM 122 cassette deck. This
should make Arnold mad.

Why?

Because it's obviously wasted on someone like me. Evil "subjectivists"
shouldn't be allowed to get their hands on stuff like this.

Given that by modern standards there is no such thing as a good-sounding
cassette deck, this would be another example of your delusional behavior,
Weil.

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 13:36:30 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"dave weil" wrote in message

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 13:06:56 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"dave weil" wrote in message


Oh, BTW, I'm really enjoying my "new" TASCAM 122 cassette deck. This
should make Arnold mad.

Why?

Because it's obviously wasted on someone like me. Evil "subjectivists"
shouldn't be allowed to get their hands on stuff like this.

Given that by modern standards there is no such thing as a good-sounding
cassette deck, this would be another example of your delusional behavior,
Weil.

I guess I'll need to play my cassettes in the hair dryer then.

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Robert Morein" wrote in message


A while back, I may have heard that Magnepans were owned by a
surprising percentage of Stereophile subscribers, on the order of 20%.


But are Magnepans truly "High End"?

That's a bit of the mystique - they sound like high-end" speakers,
yet are relatively low-priced. It's not surprizing that people
who are frugal with their money,(despite what they recommend)
would seek a lower cost alternative like this.

It's the old "So what car do you drive?" aimed at the car salesman.
Most of the time it's not the overpriced crap they are selling.

Arny Krueger wrote:


But are Magnepans truly "High End"?


Why wouldn't they be?


Too practical

Too reliable

Not nearly costly enough.

Sold mail order.

Lol. That just about sums up the "high end" market.

"Le Artiste" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" emitted :

Oh, BTW, I'm really enjoying my "new" TASCAM 122 cassette deck. This
should make Arnold mad.

Why?

Because it's a broadcast and production industry standard? ;-)

No, because he's trolling.

"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 12:21:26 -0500, "Robert Morein"
wrote:


"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Marc Phillips" wrote in message

Arny said:

"Robert Morein" wrote in message

A while back, I may have heard that Magnepans were owned by a
surprising percentage of Stereophile subscribers, on the order of
20%.

But are Magnepans truly "High End"?

Why wouldn't they be?

Too practical

Too reliable

I have never heard anyone say they were too reliable.
Ten years ago, they were known for separation of the wires from the
membrane, which limited the lifespan of a panel to three years or so.
I heard that the manufacturing process improved, but I don't know what
the
result, in terms of improved reliability, is.

This delamination is indeed fairly common. I have a pair of MG-1s that
has this problem in one area of one panel (they had this problem when
I bought them at a steal of a price). I've read about quick fixes of
injecting the appropriate adhesive at the appropriate points, but I
don't know the particulars.

You find them listenable inspite?
Is there any evidence that the problem has been fixed by a change in the
manufacturing process?

BTW, I have a set of Acoustat 2+2's, which while different in execution, are
similar in concept.
Since the Acoustat membranes have no wires, they do not suffer from
delamination.
The membranes are known to sag, but apparently, a hair dryer is enough to
tighten them up again.

"dave weil" wrote in message

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 13:36:30 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"dave weil" wrote in message

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 13:06:56 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"dave weil" wrote in message


Oh, BTW, I'm really enjoying my "new" TASCAM 122 cassette deck.
This should make Arnold mad.

Why?

Because it's obviously wasted on someone like me. Evil
"subjectivists" shouldn't be allowed to get their hands on stuff
like this.

Given that by modern standards there is no such thing as a
good-sounding cassette deck, this would be another example of your
delusional behavior, Weil.

I guess I'll need to play my cassettes in the hair dryer then.

Morein's recent post suggests that this may tighten them up, if they're
loose...

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 16:22:36 -0500, "Robert Morein"
wrote:


"dave weil" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 12:21:26 -0500, "Robert Morein"
wrote:


"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Marc Phillips" wrote in message

Arny said:

"Robert Morein" wrote in message

A while back, I may have heard that Magnepans were owned by a
surprising percentage of Stereophile subscribers, on the order of
20%.

But are Magnepans truly "High End"?

Why wouldn't they be?

Too practical

Too reliable

I have never heard anyone say they were too reliable.
Ten years ago, they were known for separation of the wires from the
membrane, which limited the lifespan of a panel to three years or so.
I heard that the manufacturing process improved, but I don't know what
the
result, in terms of improved reliability, is.

This delamination is indeed fairly common. I have a pair of MG-1s that
has this problem in one area of one panel (they had this problem when
I bought them at a steal of a price). I've read about quick fixes of
injecting the appropriate adhesive at the appropriate points, but I
don't know the particulars.

You find them listenable inspite?

They're really not my cup 'o tea (the MG1s I mean). They aren't bad,
but this particular speaker just doesn't have the presence that I've
come to expect from better Maggies. That's another reason I haven't
been in a huge hurry to fix them up.

Is there any evidence that the problem has been fixed by a change in the
manufacturing process?

I think it depends on the model that you buy. Ribbon tweeters are
pretty cool. I don't think that mine even has quasi-ribbons.

BTW, I have a set of Acoustat 2+2's, which while different in execution, are
similar in concept.
Since the Acoustat membranes have no wires, they do not suffer from
delamination.
The membranes are known to sag, but apparently, a hair dryer is enough to
tighten them up again.

IIRC, a hair dryer is a component that I forgot to mention in the
procedure for fixing the Maggies. I think that sagging was the main
problem with the Tympanies.

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 16:27:19 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"dave weil" wrote in message

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 13:36:30 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"dave weil" wrote in message

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 13:06:56 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"dave weil" wrote in message


Oh, BTW, I'm really enjoying my "new" TASCAM 122 cassette deck.
This should make Arnold mad.

Why?

Because it's obviously wasted on someone like me. Evil
"subjectivists" shouldn't be allowed to get their hands on stuff
like this.

Given that by modern standards there is no such thing as a
good-sounding cassette deck, this would be another example of your
delusional behavior, Weil.

I guess I'll need to play my cassettes in the hair dryer then.

Morein's recent post suggests that this may tighten them up, if they're
loose...

Does not.

Now, I'm waiting for you to inform us how to hook up the hair dryer to
my dbx 400X.

"Joseph Oberlander" wrote in message
link.net...


Arny Krueger wrote:

"Robert Morein" wrote in message


A while back, I may have heard that Magnepans were owned by a
surprising percentage of Stereophile subscribers, on the order of 20%.


But are Magnepans truly "High End"?

That's a bit of the mystique - they sound like high-end" speakers,
yet are relatively low-priced. It's not surprizing that people
who are frugal with their money,(despite what they recommend)
would seek a lower cost alternative like this.

It's the old "So what car do you drive?" aimed at the car salesman.
Most of the time it's not the overpriced crap they are selling.

Actually, Stereophile reviews give a lot of evidence that high end boutique
speakers usually have less regular response and dispersion than many less
expensive offerings.

Companies like Kef, Koss, Thiel, Dunlavy, various brands under the HK
umbrella such as AR, and so forth, have given evidence of a great deal of
engineering work, with extensive use of scientific thinking from inception
to the final adjustments for anticipated listening environment.

It seems that many (but not all) offerings above the moderate level
emphasize subjective appeal over accuracy. While this is a perfectly
acceptable goal, the naive buyer may think he his getting technical
perfection, when in fact, he is getting something else.

For the small maker, there is little upfront cost in use of expensive
drivers. But it is problematic for a small maker to integrate very fine
drivers through months or years of cabinet and crossover design and testing.

There have also been many speakers that have been engineered for technical
perfection -- as the engineers know it -- and have seemed highly
unsatisfactory to my ears. These include the PSB's, and practically
everything else that came out of Canada's national facility.

Occasionally, a small maker produces a speaker that sometimes becomes a
legend.
The one instance that comes to mind are the Spicas.

I have a set of very ordinary looking 10" bookshelves of completely
anonymous manufacture in my living room that give the best sound in the
house. I actually discovered these waiting for the trash at the curb. My
curiousity was piqued by what appears to be a Morel tweeter, surrounded by
felt. The drivers were pronounced by Bill Legall, who refoamed them, to look
like the MicroAcoustics driver. The crossover is 1st order.

I drive them with an Acoustat TNT-200 amp. The speaker cables are Radio
Shack zipcord.
The experience of listening to them produces severe cognitive dissonance in
audiophiles.

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

I actually discovered these waiting for the trash at the curb.

What day do they deliver your trash?




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"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

I have a set of very ordinary looking 10" bookshelves of completely
anonymous manufacture in my living room that give the best sound in the
house.

What else is in the house that sounds worse?

I have a pair of original large Advents that I enjoy very much.
I listened to a pair of PSB Stratus Golds once in a shop
and I couldn't get over how much they reminded me of my Advents.
I was looking for something more dynamic at the time and
ended up with a pair of Legacy Focus.
From there I went to Quads (talk about a dynamic shift )
and now use the Focus for home theatre. I am surprised
how good the Focus sound driven by an inexpensive
Pioneer receiver.
For me, high end is what sounds good to you.

ScottW

"Robert Morein" wrote in message



various brands under the HK umbrella such as AR,

AR is not part of Harman, it has long been part of Recoton. Recoton went
Chapter 11 April of last year.

http://www.defaultrisk.com/news_2003_q2.htm

The AR accessories business is now part of Thomson

http://www.thomson.net/gb/06/c03/030604.htm

NHT is now a Rockford brand:

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/news/1202/

The AR audio components business is now owned by Audiovox

http://biz.yahoo.com/e/031015/voxx10-q.html

"ScottW" wrote in message
news:kg90c.22114$aZ3.310@fed1read04...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

I have a set of very ordinary looking 10" bookshelves of completely
anonymous manufacture in my living room that give the best sound in the
house.

What else is in the house that sounds worse?

Kef Reference III's, Polk Lsi15's, NEAR 50ME's, Acoustat 2+2's., Spica
TC-50's.

They all sound very good.

However, there is something astonishing about the livingroom setup. While no
claim for accurate reproduction is made, the sound is sumptuous, like a
meal at a fine restaraunt. For all instrumental music, the presentation is
remarkable. It does fall down a bit on vocals, due to the large woofer, but
not as much as one might expect.

S888Wheel said:


But are Magnepans truly "High End"?

Unlike your speakers they are, if one is talking about their top models

You don't even have to go that far. The 1.6s are very highly regarded in
audiophile circles, and they're only $1475 a pair. But to Arny, that's
high-end, I suppose.

Boon

Arny said:

"S888Wheel" wrote in message

But are Magnepans truly "High End"?

Unlike your speakers they are, if one is talking about their top
models

Thanks for admitting that Magnepan is not a high end brand.

Can't you ****ing read?

Boon

Arny said:

"Marc Phillips" wrote in message

Arny said:

"Robert Morein" wrote in message

A while back, I may have heard that Magnepans were owned by a
surprising percentage of Stereophile subscribers, on the order of
20%.

But are Magnepans truly "High End"?

Why wouldn't they be?

Too practical

Too reliable

Not nearly costly enough.

Sold mail order.


Irrelevant.

Boon

Joseph Oberlander said:

Arny Krueger wrote:


But are Magnepans truly "High End"?


Why wouldn't they be?


Too practical

Too reliable

Not nearly costly enough.

Sold mail order.

Lol. That just about sums up the "high end" market.

That just about sums up the objectivist fantasy about the high-end market, you
mean. Meanwhile, I continue to own high-end products that run for years
without incident, and are all considered good values for the money. Rega,
Naim, Spendor, Michell, LFD, SME...tell me again about their impractical and
unreliable natures.

Boon

Mr. Phillips wrote:


Joseph Oberlander said:

Arny Krueger wrote:


But are Magnepans truly "High End"?


Why wouldn't they be?


Too practical

Too reliable

Not nearly costly enough.

Sold mail order.

Lol. That just about sums up the "high end" market.

That just about sums up the objectivist fantasy about the high-end market,
you
mean. Meanwhile, I continue to own high-end products that run for years
without incident, and are all considered good values for the money. Rega,
Naim, Spendor, Michell, LFD, SME...tell me again about their impractical and
unreliable natures.

Boon








What anti-individual-preference, anti-subjective-opinion "objectives" like
Krueger fail to realize is that even the concept of "high-end audio" is not
solely dependent on a predetermined list of variables, but also to a
significant extent
by individual tastes. It's hard, sometimes, to even make the distinction
*solely* on thee basis of what brands are carried in what most call "high-end"
stores. For example, in Florida, there is a large chain called Sound Advice,
which is part of an even larger conglomerate called Tweeter, Inc. with stores
in New England and elsewhere. Sound Advice carries brands with "high-end"
cachet like Martin Logan, Krell, and B&W, but also carries Yamaha receivers -
some of which might be found in stores not typically considered "high end.

As you've pointed out, Marc, the designation of high-end is not solely
dependent on price but on things like build quality, value/dollar ratios, and
above all, perhaps subjective enjoyment - a concept alien to objectivists who
seem only to take pleasure from reading graphs, statistical specifications,
and/or yelling "prove it" whenever an individual preference or opinion is
expressed.

I've had most of the same components in my system for a number of years with
very few mechanical or electrical problems encountered during that time.
Models from VPI, Grado, California Audio Labs, Conrad Johnson, Nakamichi, MB
Quart (mobile high-end in the opinions of some enthusiasts) and Audio Arts
(also mobile high end) have provided years of enjoyment with very high
cost/benefits ratios.



Bruce J. Richman

From: (S888Wheel)
Date: 2/28/2004 10:58 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Scott "I'm really smart, just ask me" Wheeler scrawled:

But are Magnepans truly "High End"?

Unlike your speakers they are, if one is talking about their top
models

Thanks for admitting that Magnepan is not a high end brand.









Thanks for once again showing your complete lack of intelegence.

"intelegence"??? Hey, Wheeler, are you really as jackass stupid as you appear
to be on RAO? Or is this just an act? ;-)

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

I actually discovered these waiting for the trash at the curb.

What day do they deliver your trash?

Were you in the waste hauling business?
Nothing to be ashamed of.

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

I actually discovered these waiting for the trash at the curb.

What day do they deliver your trash?

Were you in the waste hauling business?
Nothing to be ashamed of.


I took usenet losers like you to the landfill




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Le Artiste wrote:

"Marc Phillips" emitted :


But are Magnepans truly "High End"?


Why wouldn't they be?


Too practical

Too reliable

Not nearly costly enough.

Sold mail order.

Lol. That just about sums up the "high end" market.

That just about sums up the objectivist fantasy about the high-end market, you
mean. Meanwhile, I continue to own high-end products that run for years
without incident, and are all considered good values for the money. Rega,
Naim, Spendor, Michell, LFD, SME...tell me again about their impractical and
unreliable natures.


In my experience high end products are extremely reliable and are of
significantly better quality. Also quality control and customer
service is better than with your typical mass market products. Caveat
emptor, but you get what you pay for.

But, there are exceptions. You see, technology is great.

Eventually, you get better results at a lower cost - and turn the
industry on its ear. Magnepan's little $300 pair they just came out
with are astonishing at their price. New technology, relatively
speaking, compared to conventional drivers - and I defy you to find
a $300 pair of speakers that sounds as good.

The same thing applies to cars. A new Civic will blow the doors off
of a 1965 Mustang in just about every way other than a straight line,
just due to advances in technology.

It's actually getting hard to find a speaker anymore that doesn't
do a decent job. A few do exist, like Bose, but they are becoming
the exception rather than the norm, like they were 20 years ago.

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

I actually discovered these waiting for the trash at the curb.

What day do they deliver your trash?

Were you in the waste hauling business?
Nothing to be ashamed of.


I took usenet losers like you to the landfill

If you were an undertaker, that's nothing to be ashamed of.
Lighten up -- it'll be a while longer before they inject formaldehyde into
your veins.

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

I actually discovered these waiting for the trash at the curb.

What day do they deliver your trash?

Were you in the waste hauling business?
Nothing to be ashamed of.


I took usenet losers like you to the landfill

Socks, are you in chronic pain, from arthritis or back injury? That can make
a person sour without realizing it.