Cubase, admin, hibernate?

[Robert Morein]

I'm using Cubase LE on XP. I find the following:

1. It requires running as admin privilige, at least to modify audio output
parameters, such as latency. If I try to do so as a regular user, Cubase
either hangs, or leaves the latency at 50 ms. If I use a copy of a project
created as administrator that has latency set to, say, 2ms, when I run the
copy as a regular user, it resets to 50 ms.

2. If the computer hibernates and is restored from hibernated state, the
midi in connection breaks. I thought this was a problem with my midiman usb
converter, so I switched to a Creative Audigy ZS game port. However, the
same happens.

Processor is an Athlon 64 3200.

Frequently, "LE" products are not as well maintained as full versions. Does
anyone have any additional experience with these limitations?

[Sander deWaal]

"Robert Morein" > said:

>I'm using Cubase LE on XP. I find the following:

>1. It requires running as admin privilige, at least to modify audio output
>parameters, such as latency. If I try to do so as a regular user, Cubase
>either hangs, or leaves the latency at 50 ms. If I use a copy of a project
>created as administrator that has latency set to, say, 2ms, when I run the
>copy as a regular user, it resets to 50 ms.


Run regedit and copy/paste the appropriate reg file from "user" to
"local machine".


>2. If the computer hibernates and is restored from hibernated state, the
>midi in connection breaks. I thought this was a problem with my midiman usb
>converter, so I switched to a Creative Audigy ZS game port. However, the
>same happens.


Simple, really, turn the hibernate function off.
If you need to put something in stand by, go to your energy settings
and just let the monitor swith off after a while.

--

"Audio as a serious hobby is going down the tubes."
- Howard Ferstler, 25/4/2005

[Robert Morein]

"Sander deWaal" > wrote in message
...
> "Robert Morein" > said:
>
>>I'm using Cubase LE on XP. I find the following:
>
>>1. It requires running as admin privilige, at least to modify audio output
>>parameters, such as latency. If I try to do so as a regular user, Cubase
>>either hangs, or leaves the latency at 50 ms. If I use a copy of a project
>>created as administrator that has latency set to, say, 2ms, when I run
>>the
>>copy as a regular user, it resets to 50 ms.
>
>
> Run regedit and copy/paste the appropriate reg file from "user" to
> "local machine".
>
Do you mean, "key", as opposed to "file"? How would I know the name of the
key?
>
>>2. If the computer hibernates and is restored from hibernated state, the
>>midi in connection breaks. I thought this was a problem with my midiman
>>usb
>>converter, so I switched to a Creative Audigy ZS game port. However, the
>>same happens.
>
>
> Simple, really, turn the hibernate function off.
> If you need to put something in stand by, go to your energy settings
> and just let the monitor swith off after a while.
>
I would like to use hibernate, because the difference in power consumption
is quite substantial. For example, my 2.6g P4 draws 110 watts operating, 70
watts standby, and 0 watts hibernating.

[Marky A]

I've been strongly warned off using Hibernation in general. My own
experience is that an awkward awakening one time really screwed up my
windows virus. I won' t use it anymore.

[Marky A]

Leave hibernating to bears. I understand that the hibernate function is
a bit of a crap shoot between the windows virus and the random hardware
abstraction layer.

[Arny Krueger]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message


>>> 2. If the computer hibernates and is restored from
>>> hibernated state, the midi in connection breaks. I
>>> thought this was a problem with my midiman usb
>>> converter, so I switched to a Creative Audigy ZS game
>>> port. However, the same happens.

>> Simple, really, turn the hibernate function off.
>> If you need to put something in stand by, go to your
>> energy settings and just let the monitor swith off after
>> a while.

> I would like to use hibernate, because the difference in
> power consumption is quite substantial. For example, my
> 2.6g P4 draws 110 watts operating, 70 watts standby, and
> 0 watts hibernating.

You do understand that when a machine hibernates, it pretty well breaks all
connections with outside I/O devices, right?

[Robert Morein]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>
>
>>>> 2. If the computer hibernates and is restored from
>>>> hibernated state, the midi in connection breaks. I
>>>> thought this was a problem with my midiman usb
>>>> converter, so I switched to a Creative Audigy ZS game
>>>> port. However, the same happens.
>
>>> Simple, really, turn the hibernate function off.
>>> If you need to put something in stand by, go to your
>>> energy settings and just let the monitor swith off after
>>> a while.
>
>> I would like to use hibernate, because the difference in
>> power consumption is quite substantial. For example, my
>> 2.6g P4 draws 110 watts operating, 70 watts standby, and
>> 0 watts hibernating.
>
> You do understand that when a machine hibernates, it pretty well breaks
> all connections with outside I/O devices, right?
You do understand that this depends upon how the driver is written, right?

[Sander deWaal]

"Robert Morein" > said:

>> You do understand that when a machine hibernates, it pretty well breaks
>> all connections with outside I/O devices, right?

>You do understand that this depends upon how the driver is written, right?


I'm afraid that Arny is right, I've never seen a WinXP machine that
keeps its connections when going into hibernating status.

And I meant reg keys instead of files, of course.
Look in the registry in "software" for something like Steinberg or
Cubase (or whatever company it is now).

--

"Audio as a serious hobby is going down the tubes."
- Howard Ferstler, 25/4/2005

[Greg Pasquariello]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
:

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> >
> >
> > You do understand that when a machine hibernates, it pretty well
> breaks
> > all connections with outside I/O devices, right?
>
> You do understand that this depends upon how the driver is written,
> right?

You do understand that this doesn't invalidate the general truth of the
previous statement, right?

[Pooh Bear]

Arny Krueger wrote:

> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>
>
> >>> 2. If the computer hibernates and is restored from
> >>> hibernated state, the midi in connection breaks. I
> >>> thought this was a problem with my midiman usb
> >>> converter, so I switched to a Creative Audigy ZS game
> >>> port. However, the same happens.
>
> >> Simple, really, turn the hibernate function off.
> >> If you need to put something in stand by, go to your
> >> energy settings and just let the monitor swith off after
> >> a while.
>
> > I would like to use hibernate, because the difference in
> > power consumption is quite substantial. For example, my
> > 2.6g P4 draws 110 watts operating, 70 watts standby, and
> > 0 watts hibernating.
>
> You do understand that when a machine hibernates, it pretty well breaks all
> connections with outside I/O devices, right?

Anything that needs a 'sync' is going to lose it for sure.

Graham

[Robert Morein]

"Pooh Bear" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Arny Krueger wrote:
>
>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>>
>>
>> >>> 2. If the computer hibernates and is restored from
>> >>> hibernated state, the midi in connection breaks. I
>> >>> thought this was a problem with my midiman usb
>> >>> converter, so I switched to a Creative Audigy ZS game
>> >>> port. However, the same happens.
>>
>> >> Simple, really, turn the hibernate function off.
>> >> If you need to put something in stand by, go to your
>> >> energy settings and just let the monitor swith off after
>> >> a while.
>>
>> > I would like to use hibernate, because the difference in
>> > power consumption is quite substantial. For example, my
>> > 2.6g P4 draws 110 watts operating, 70 watts standby, and
>> > 0 watts hibernating.
>>
>> You do understand that when a machine hibernates, it pretty well breaks
>> all
>> connections with outside I/O devices, right?
>
> Anything that needs a 'sync' is going to lose it for sure.
>
> Graham
>
Not inevitably. IME, firewire connections to external sound devices do
break. OTOH, usb connections to external hard drives generally restore when
the machine wakes up. So do HIDs (human interface devices, as defined by
Microsoft, to include typing keyboards and pointing devices.

When the Midiman 1x1 stopped working after a hibernate cycle, I did suspect
a problem of this nature. So I switched to the MIDI interface on the
Creative sound card. This is a simple, asynchronous interface similar in
nature to a serial port. The only device on it is a Fatar SL880 keyboard,
which is an output-only device.

If the Creative sound card driver is as well written as a typical serial
port driver, it should survive a hibernate sequence. OTOH, the problem may
be in the Cubase program itself. Perhaps it needs to get a new port handle
on wakeup, and fails to do so.

[Robert Morein]

"Greg Pasquariello" > wrote in message
. ..
>
>
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> :
>
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>> > "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>> >
>> >
>> > You do understand that when a machine hibernates, it pretty well
>> breaks
>> > all connections with outside I/O devices, right?
>>
>> You do understand that this depends upon how the driver is written,
>> right?
>
> You do understand that this doesn't invalidate the general truth of the
> previous statement, right?
>
You do understand it's not generally true, don't you? -- that it depends on
the specific driver interface? You do understand this, don't you?

[Greg Pasquariello]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
:

>
> > You do understand that this doesn't invalidate the general truth of
> the
> > previous statement, right?
> >
>
> You do understand it's not generally true, don't you? -- that it depends
> on
> the specific driver interface? You do understand this, don't you?

Yup. And I'm willing to put money on the fact that there are
substantially more drivers that will not behave as you seem to hope
during hibernation. Assuming that's the case, then it DOES make the
statement generally true.

You understand this, don't you?

[Robert Morein]

"Greg Pasquariello" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> :
>
>>
>> > You do understand that this doesn't invalidate the general truth of
>> the
>> > previous statement, right?
>> >
>>
>> You do understand it's not generally true, don't you? -- that it depends
>> on
>> the specific driver interface? You do understand this, don't you?
>
> Yup. And I'm willing to put money on the fact that there are
> substantially more drivers that will not behave as you seem to hope during
> hibernation. Assuming that's the case, then it DOES make the statement
> generally true.
>
> You understand this, don't you?
>
The statement is not "generally true." It is different for every driver.

You understand this, don't you?

[Arny Krueger]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>>
>>
>>>>> 2. If the computer hibernates and is restored from
>>>>> hibernated state, the midi in connection breaks. I
>>>>> thought this was a problem with my midiman usb
>>>>> converter, so I switched to a Creative Audigy ZS game
>>>>> port. However, the same happens.
>>
>>>> Simple, really, turn the hibernate function off.
>>>> If you need to put something in stand by, go to your
>>>> energy settings and just let the monitor swith off
>>>> after a while.
>>
>>> I would like to use hibernate, because the difference in
>>> power consumption is quite substantial. For example, my
>>> 2.6g P4 draws 110 watts operating, 70 watts standby, and
>>> 0 watts hibernating.
>>
>> You do understand that when a machine hibernates, it
>> pretty well breaks all connections with outside I/O
>> devices, right?

> You do understand that this depends upon how the driver
> is written, right?

No, the specs for hibernation always involve a complete power shutdown of
the computer.

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/mobility/getstarted/hibernate.mspx

"Hibernate saves an image of your desktop with all open files and documents,
and then it powers down your computer. When you turn on power, your files
and documents are open on your desktop exactly as you left them."

If a laptop computer is hibernating, then you can remove the batteries and
it will still recover from hibernation the next time you power it up.

If a desktop computer is hibernating, you can pull the power cord and remove
all other sources of power. It will then be electrically inert except for
the CMOS battery which is irrelevant to powering external I/O devices. It
will then recover from hibernation the next time you apply power.

If the computer is not powered down, it isn't hibernating, according to
Microsoft.

[Arny Krueger]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message

> "Greg Pasquariello" > wrote in
> message
> . ..
>>
>>
>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>> :
>>
>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>
>>>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You do understand that when a machine hibernates, it
>>>> pretty well breaks all connections with outside I/O
>>>> devices, right?
>>>
>>> You do understand that this depends upon how the driver
>>> is written, right?
>>
>> You do understand that this doesn't invalidate the
>> general truth of the previous statement, right?
>>
> You do understand it's not generally true, don't you? --
> that it depends on the specific driver interface? You do
> understand this, don't you?

Morein, three people (and its not like Sander and I agree about much!) and a
relevant Microsoft document say otherwise. I know that its against your
religion to admit that you're wrong, but you should really give it up!

[Robert Morein]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> 2. If the computer hibernates and is restored from
>>>>>> hibernated state, the midi in connection breaks. I
>>>>>> thought this was a problem with my midiman usb
>>>>>> converter, so I switched to a Creative Audigy ZS game
>>>>>> port. However, the same happens.
>>>
>>>>> Simple, really, turn the hibernate function off.
>>>>> If you need to put something in stand by, go to your
>>>>> energy settings and just let the monitor swith off
>>>>> after a while.
>>>
>>>> I would like to use hibernate, because the difference in
>>>> power consumption is quite substantial. For example, my
>>>> 2.6g P4 draws 110 watts operating, 70 watts standby, and
>>>> 0 watts hibernating.
>>>
>>> You do understand that when a machine hibernates, it
>>> pretty well breaks all connections with outside I/O
>>> devices, right?
>
>> You do understand that this depends upon how the driver
>> is written, right?
>
> No, the specs for hibernation always involve a complete power shutdown of
> the computer.
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/mobility/getstarted/hibernate.mspx
>
> "Hibernate saves an image of your desktop with all open files and
> documents, and then it powers down your computer. When you turn on power,
> your files and documents are open on your desktop exactly as you left
> them."
>
> If a laptop computer is hibernating, then you can remove the batteries and
> it will still recover from hibernation the next time you power it up.
>
> If a desktop computer is hibernating, you can pull the power cord and
> remove all other sources of power. It will then be electrically inert
> except for the CMOS battery which is irrelevant to powering external I/O
> devices. It will then recover from hibernation the next time you apply
> power.
>
> If the computer is not powered down, it isn't hibernating, according to
> Microsoft.
True, but utterly irrelevant to the question. When a computer restores from
hibernation, all standard USB HID devices work: keyboard and mouse. So does
an external USB drive. Obviously, there are some devices that work, and some
that don't. Some respondents on this thread have asserted "Generally___".
This is not new information; it is not responsive to the question.

[Robert Morein]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>
>> "Greg Pasquariello" > wrote in
>> message
>> . ..
>>>
>>>
>>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>>> :
>>>
>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You do understand that when a machine hibernates, it
>>>>> pretty well breaks all connections with outside I/O
>>>>> devices, right?
>>>>
>>>> You do understand that this depends upon how the driver
>>>> is written, right?
>>>
>>> You do understand that this doesn't invalidate the
>>> general truth of the previous statement, right?
>>>
>> You do understand it's not generally true, don't you? --
>> that it depends on the specific driver interface? You do
>> understand this, don't you?
>
> Morein, three people (and its not like Sander and I agree about much!) and
> a relevant Microsoft document say otherwise. I know that its against your
> religion to admit that you're wrong, but you should really give it up!
True, but utterly irrelevant to the question. When a computer restores from
hibernation, all standard USB HID devices work: keyboard and mouse. So does
an external USB drive. Obviously, there are some devices that work, and some
that don't. Some respondents on this thread have asserted "Generally___".
This is not new information; it is not responsive to the question.

[Arny Krueger]

"Pooh Bear" > wrote
in message
> Arny Krueger wrote:
>
>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>>
>>
>>>>> 2. If the computer hibernates and is restored from
>>>>> hibernated state, the midi in connection breaks. I
>>>>> thought this was a problem with my midiman usb
>>>>> converter, so I switched to a Creative Audigy ZS game
>>>>> port. However, the same happens.
>>
>>>> Simple, really, turn the hibernate function off.
>>>> If you need to put something in stand by, go to your
>>>> energy settings and just let the monitor swith off
>>>> after a while.
>>
>>> I would like to use hibernate, because the difference in
>>> power consumption is quite substantial. For example, my
>>> 2.6g P4 draws 110 watts operating, 70 watts standby, and
>>> 0 watts hibernating.
>>
>> You do understand that when a machine hibernates, it
>> pretty well breaks all connections with outside I/O
>> devices, right?
>
> Anything that needs a 'sync' is going to lose it for sure.

Agreed.

[Greg Pasquariello]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
:

>
> The statement is not "generally true." It is different for every driver.
>
> You understand this, don't you?

Are you a moron?

If drivers generally do not behave well during hiberanation, then the
statement "when a machine hibernates, it pretty well breaks all
connections with outside I/O devices" IS generally true.

But whatever. You're the one with the issue, not me, so knock yourself
out arguing false semantics.

[Robert Morein]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Pooh Bear" > wrote
> in message
>> Arny Krueger wrote:
>>
>>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> 2. If the computer hibernates and is restored from
>>>>>> hibernated state, the midi in connection breaks. I
>>>>>> thought this was a problem with my midiman usb
>>>>>> converter, so I switched to a Creative Audigy ZS game
>>>>>> port. However, the same happens.
>>>
>>>>> Simple, really, turn the hibernate function off.
>>>>> If you need to put something in stand by, go to your
>>>>> energy settings and just let the monitor swith off
>>>>> after a while.
>>>
>>>> I would like to use hibernate, because the difference in
>>>> power consumption is quite substantial. For example, my
>>>> 2.6g P4 draws 110 watts operating, 70 watts standby, and
>>>> 0 watts hibernating.
>>>
>>> You do understand that when a machine hibernates, it
>>> pretty well breaks all connections with outside I/O
>>> devices, right?
>>
>> Anything that needs a 'sync' is going to lose it for sure.
>
> Agreed.
Agreed, but MIDI is an asynchronous interface, a unidirectional asynchronous
bit stream at 31.25 Kbits/sec. with 10 bits transmitted per byte, with a
single start bit, 8 data bits, and a singles stop bit. This is identical in
format to an ANSI serial data stream.

Since it has a built in sync signal in every byte, it does not require a
continuous datastream. Each time a MIDI controller is actuated, it generates
a fresh sync at the start, and every byte thereafter. There is nothing
inherent in the protocol that would make it difficult to recover from a
hibernate, or even a physical disconnection. One can unplug and plug a MIDI
keyboard, with no ill effects.

[Robert Morein]

"Greg Pasquariello" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> :
>
>>
>> The statement is not "generally true." It is different for every driver.
>>
>> You understand this, don't you?
>
> Are you a moron?
>
> If drivers generally do not behave well during hiberanation, then the
> statement "when a machine hibernates, it pretty well breaks all
> connections with outside I/O devices" IS generally true.
>
> But whatever. You're the one with the issue, not me, so knock yourself
> out arguing false semantics.
>
But drivers do not "generally" do this, or that. Knock yourself out. I
posted with a specific question. If you don't have a contribution, you can
either try to detour it to symantics, or remain silent.

[Arny Krueger]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message

> "Pooh Bear" >
> wrote in message ...
>>
>>
>> Arny Krueger wrote:
>>
>>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> 2. If the computer hibernates and is restored from
>>>>>> hibernated state, the midi in connection breaks. I
>>>>>> thought this was a problem with my midiman usb
>>>>>> converter, so I switched to a Creative Audigy ZS game
>>>>>> port. However, the same happens.
>>>
>>>>> Simple, really, turn the hibernate function off.
>>>>> If you need to put something in stand by, go to your
>>>>> energy settings and just let the monitor swith off
>>>>> after a while.
>>>
>>>> I would like to use hibernate, because the difference
>>>> in power consumption is quite substantial. For
>>>> example, my 2.6g P4 draws 110 watts operating, 70 watts standby,
>>>> and 0 watts hibernating.
>>>
>>> You do understand that when a machine hibernates, it
>>> pretty well breaks all
>>> connections with outside I/O devices, right?
>>
>> Anything that needs a 'sync' is going to lose it for
>> sure.

> Not inevitably.

Yes, inevitably. No power, no synch.

> IME, firewire connections to external sound devices do break.

This is a debating trade ploy. The discussion was about MIDI, and now
discussion has switched to IEE1394. However, Morein's debating trade ploy
just digs him in deeper, because he quickly makes false distinctions between
USB and IEEE1394.

> OTOH, usb connections to external
> hard drives generally restore when the machine wakes up.

So do IEE1394 connections. Both IEEE1394 and USB are hot-plug interfaces.
Both can convey power to outside devices, which may confuse the unaware.

> So do HIDs (human interface devices, as defined by
> Microsoft, to include typing keyboards and pointing devices.

This is yet another debating trade ploy. The discussion was about MIDI,
IEEE1394 and USB and now discussion has switched to a class of I/O devices
which are available commonly available with USB and yet another interface,
the interface used for mini-DIN connectors such as found on legacy mice and
keyboards.

Morein has already demonstrated gross technical incompetence with his
incorrect claims about MIDI. IEE1394, and USB which share in common the fact
that they are by definition, hot-pluggable. The mini-DIN keyboard/mouse
interface is commonly impmented either way. Typically hot-pluggable for
keyboards, and mice on laptops, but not hot-pluggable on desktop computers.
Why Morein would venture into an area with this greater complexity is
unimaginable for a sane person, given how badly he's blown it with the
simpler cases.

> When the Midiman 1x1 stopped working after a hibernate
> cycle, I did suspect a problem of this nature.

Pretty simple really, you powered everything off, except perhaps the source
MIDI device the SL880 keyboard.

> So I switched to the MIDI interface on the Creative sound
> card. This is a simple, asynchronous interface similar in
> nature to a serial port.

That's MIDI, no matter what hardware implements it.

> The only device on it is a Fatar
> SL880 keyboard, which is an output-only device.


> If the Creative sound card driver is as well written as a
> typical serial port driver, it should survive a hibernate
> sequence.

That depends on the program that you are trying to control with the SL880
keyboard.

>OTOH, the problem may be in the Cubase program
> itself. Perhaps it needs to get a new port handle on
> wakeup, and fails to do so.

How about that? ;-)

[Robert Morein]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>
>> "Pooh Bear" >
>> wrote in message ...
>>>
>>>
>>> Arny Krueger wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> 2. If the computer hibernates and is restored from
>>>>>>> hibernated state, the midi in connection breaks. I
>>>>>>> thought this was a problem with my midiman usb
>>>>>>> converter, so I switched to a Creative Audigy ZS game
>>>>>>> port. However, the same happens.
>>>>
>>>>>> Simple, really, turn the hibernate function off.
>>>>>> If you need to put something in stand by, go to your
>>>>>> energy settings and just let the monitor swith off
>>>>>> after a while.
>>>>
>>>>> I would like to use hibernate, because the difference
>>>>> in power consumption is quite substantial. For
>>>>> example, my 2.6g P4 draws 110 watts operating, 70 watts standby,
>>>>> and 0 watts hibernating.
>>>>
>>>> You do understand that when a machine hibernates, it
>>>> pretty well breaks all
>>>> connections with outside I/O devices, right?
>>>
>>> Anything that needs a 'sync' is going to lose it for
>>> sure.
>
>> Not inevitably.
>
> Yes, inevitably. No power, no synch.
>
>> IME, firewire connections to external sound devices do break.
>
> This is a debating trade ploy. The discussion was about MIDI, and now
> discussion has switched to IEE1394. However, Morein's debating trade ploy
> just digs him in deeper, because he quickly makes false distinctions
> between USB and IEEE1394.
>
>> OTOH, usb connections to external
>> hard drives generally restore when the machine wakes up.
>
> So do IEE1394 connections. Both IEEE1394 and USB are hot-plug interfaces.
> Both can convey power to outside devices, which may confuse the unaware.
>
>> So do HIDs (human interface devices, as defined by
>> Microsoft, to include typing keyboards and pointing devices.
>
> This is yet another debating trade ploy. The discussion was about MIDI,
> IEEE1394 and USB and now discussion has switched to a class of I/O
> devices which are available commonly available with USB and yet another
> interface, the interface used for mini-DIN connectors such as found on
> legacy mice and keyboards.
>
> Morein has already demonstrated gross technical incompetence with his
> incorrect claims about MIDI. IEE1394, and USB which share in common the
> fact that they are by definition, hot-pluggable. The mini-DIN
> keyboard/mouse interface is commonly impmented either way. Typically
> hot-pluggable for keyboards, and mice on laptops, but not hot-pluggable on
> desktop computers. Why Morein would venture into an area with this greater
> complexity is unimaginable for a sane person, given how badly he's blown
> it with the simpler cases.
>
>> When the Midiman 1x1 stopped working after a hibernate
>> cycle, I did suspect a problem of this nature.
>
> Pretty simple really, you powered everything off, except perhaps the
> source MIDI device the SL880 keyboard.
>
>> So I switched to the MIDI interface on the Creative sound
>> card. This is a simple, asynchronous interface similar in
>> nature to a serial port.
>
> That's MIDI, no matter what hardware implements it.
>
>> The only device on it is a Fatar
>> SL880 keyboard, which is an output-only device.
>
>
>> If the Creative sound card driver is as well written as a
>> typical serial port driver, it should survive a hibernate
>> sequence.
>
> That depends on the program that you are trying to control with the SL880
> keyboard.
>
>>OTOH, the problem may be in the Cubase program
>> itself. Perhaps it needs to get a new port handle on
>> wakeup, and fails to do so.
>
> How about that? ;-)
I'm looking for answers, not sarcasm.

[Arny Krueger]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>>
>>> "Greg Pasquariello" > wrote in
>>> message
>>> . ..
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>>>> :
>>>>
>>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in
>>>>>> message
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You do understand that when a machine hibernates, it
>>>>>> pretty well breaks all connections with outside I/O
>>>>>> devices, right?
>>>>>
>>>>> You do understand that this depends upon how the
>>>>> driver is written, right?
>>>>
>>>> You do understand that this doesn't invalidate the
>>>> general truth of the previous statement, right?
>>>>
>>> You do understand it's not generally true, don't you? --
>>> that it depends on the specific driver interface? You
>>> do understand this, don't you?

>> Morein, three people (and its not like Sander and I
>> agree about much!) and a relevant Microsoft document say
>> otherwise. I know that its against your religion to
>> admit that you're wrong, but you should really give it
>> up!

> True, but utterly irrelevant to the question.

Not at all. Morein, you made them relevent with your OP and your ongoing
debating-trade inspired complexifying of the situation.

> When a
> computer restores from hibernation, all standard USB HID
> devices work: keyboard and mouse.

True, but this happens for a complex series of reasons. One reason why this
works is because the entities that you control with the keyboard and mouse
are designed to be restartable. If this is a laptop both the keyboard and
mouse are hot-pluggable. The ability to be hot-plugged extends all the way
back into the bowels of the computer. A hot-pluggable interface does not
necessarily make a hot-pluggable function. A hot-pluggable interface is a
necessary, but not a sufficient condition.

> So does an external USB drive.

That actually depends on the software that is accessing the USB drive. If
you unplug a USB hard drive while a program is writing to it, the results
can be pretty catastrophic to that program. Or not.

> Obviously, there are some devices that work, and
> some that don't.

I think the real problem is Morien that you don't understand all of the
things that must be lined up in a row for things to work as you wish.

You finally got around to admitting that you're reading this keyboard with
Cubase. Where is it written in stone that Cubase is written to be totally
interuptable and capable of fully supporting hot-pluggable I/O gear?

> Some respondents on this thread have asserted "Generally___". This is not
> new information; it
> is not responsive to the question.

Wrong again Morein. An intelligent person would see that Graham is helping
you to exclude possible causes. You're criticizing him for helping him just
as you've repeated bitten my hand with your many ludicrous "Arny is ia
psychopath" and "Arny is a bad scientist" posts. There's a crazy man on
this thread Robert, one who is no scientist at all, and he's you! :-(

I think Robert this is because you don't understand how to troubleshoot even
simple situations, let alone say the process of obtaining a PhD degree, or
even just making a MIDI keyboard work with Cubase... Your trouble-shooting
procedures generate smoke, not working systems.

[Robert Morein]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>>>
>>>> "Greg Pasquariello" > wrote in
>>>> message
>>>> . ..
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>>>>> :
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in
>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You do understand that when a machine hibernates, it
>>>>>>> pretty well breaks all connections with outside I/O
>>>>>>> devices, right?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You do understand that this depends upon how the
>>>>>> driver is written, right?
>>>>>
>>>>> You do understand that this doesn't invalidate the
>>>>> general truth of the previous statement, right?
>>>>>
>>>> You do understand it's not generally true, don't you? --
>>>> that it depends on the specific driver interface? You
>>>> do understand this, don't you?
>
>>> Morein, three people (and its not like Sander and I
>>> agree about much!) and a relevant Microsoft document say
>>> otherwise. I know that its against your religion to
>>> admit that you're wrong, but you should really give it
>>> up!
>
>> True, but utterly irrelevant to the question.
>
> Not at all. Morein, you made them relevent with your OP and your ongoing
> debating-trade inspired complexifying of the situation.
>
>> When a
>> computer restores from hibernation, all standard USB HID
>> devices work: keyboard and mouse.
>
> True, but this happens for a complex series of reasons. One reason why
> this works is because the entities that you control with the keyboard and
> mouse are designed to be restartable. If this is a laptop both the
> keyboard and mouse are hot-pluggable. The ability to be hot-plugged
> extends all the way back into the bowels of the computer. A hot-pluggable
> interface does not necessarily make a hot-pluggable function. A
> hot-pluggable interface is a necessary, but not a sufficient condition.
>
>> So does an external USB drive.
>
> That actually depends on the software that is accessing the USB drive. If
> you unplug a USB hard drive while a program is writing to it, the results
> can be pretty catastrophic to that program. Or not.
>
>> Obviously, there are some devices that work, and
>> some that don't.
>
> I think the real problem is Morien that you don't understand all of the
> things that must be lined up in a row for things to work as you wish.
>
> You finally got around to admitting that you're reading this keyboard with
> Cubase. Where is it written in stone that Cubase is written to be totally
> interuptable and capable of fully supporting hot-pluggable I/O gear?
>
That is not an answer, Arny. You don't know the answer.

>> Some respondents on this thread have asserted "Generally___". This is not
>> new information; it
>> is not responsive to the question.
>
> Wrong again Morein. An intelligent person would see that Graham is helping
> you to exclude possible causes.

Wrong again. However, I credit Graham with good intent. Obviously, there is
an answer: driver vs. app vs. Windows behavior. No one here appears to know.
There is nothing wrong about not knowing. Now stop this nonsense, because
you're adding nothing.

[Arny Krueger]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>>
>>> "Pooh Bear" >
>>> wrote in message ...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Arny Krueger wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2. If the computer hibernates and is restored from
>>>>>>>> hibernated state, the midi in connection breaks. I
>>>>>>>> thought this was a problem with my midiman usb
>>>>>>>> converter, so I switched to a Creative Audigy ZS
>>>>>>>> game port. However, the same happens.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Simple, really, turn the hibernate function off.
>>>>>>> If you need to put something in stand by, go to your
>>>>>>> energy settings and just let the monitor swith off
>>>>>>> after a while.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I would like to use hibernate, because the difference
>>>>>> in power consumption is quite substantial. For
>>>>>> example, my 2.6g P4 draws 110 watts operating, 70
>>>>>> watts standby, and 0 watts hibernating.
>>>>>
>>>>> You do understand that when a machine hibernates, it
>>>>> pretty well breaks all
>>>>> connections with outside I/O devices, right?
>>>>
>>>> Anything that needs a 'sync' is going to lose it for
>>>> sure.
>>
>>> Not inevitably.
>>
>> Yes, inevitably. No power, no synch.
>>
>>> IME, firewire connections to external sound devices do
>>> break.
>>
>> This is a debating trade ploy. The discussion was about
>> MIDI, and now discussion has switched to IEE1394.
>> However, Morein's debating trade ploy just digs him in
>> deeper, because he quickly makes false distinctions
>> between USB and IEEE1394.
>>> OTOH, usb connections to external
>>> hard drives generally restore when the machine wakes up.
>>
>> So do IEE1394 connections. Both IEEE1394 and USB are
>> hot-plug interfaces. Both can convey power to outside
>> devices, which may confuse the unaware.
>>> So do HIDs (human interface devices, as defined by
>>> Microsoft, to include typing keyboards and pointing devices.
>>
>> This is yet another debating trade ploy. The discussion
>> was about MIDI, IEEE1394 and USB and now discussion has
>> switched to a class of I/O devices which are available
>> commonly available with USB and yet another interface,
>> the interface used for mini-DIN connectors such as found
>> on legacy mice and keyboards. Morein has already demonstrated gross
>> technical
>> incompetence with his incorrect claims about MIDI.
>> IEE1394, and USB which share in common the fact that
>> they are by definition, hot-pluggable. The mini-DIN
>> keyboard/mouse interface is commonly impmented either
>> way. Typically hot-pluggable for keyboards, and mice on
>> laptops, but not hot-pluggable on desktop computers. Why
>> Morein would venture into an area with this greater
>> complexity is unimaginable for a sane person, given how
>> badly he's blown it with the simpler cases.
>>> When the Midiman 1x1 stopped working after a hibernate
>>> cycle, I did suspect a problem of this nature.
>>
>> Pretty simple really, you powered everything off, except
>> perhaps the source MIDI device the SL880 keyboard.
>>
>>> So I switched to the MIDI interface on the Creative
>>> sound card. This is a simple, asynchronous interface
>>> similar in nature to a serial port.
>>
>> That's MIDI, no matter what hardware implements it.
>>
>>> The only device on it is a Fatar
>>> SL880 keyboard, which is an output-only device.
>>
>>
>>> If the Creative sound card driver is as well written as
>>> a typical serial port driver, it should survive a
>>> hibernate sequence.
>>
>> That depends on the program that you are trying to
>> control with the SL880 keyboard.
>>
>>> OTOH, the problem may be in the Cubase program
>>> itself. Perhaps it needs to get a new port handle on
>>> wakeup, and fails to do so.
>>
>> How about that? ;-)

> I'm looking for answers, not sarcasm.

You're getting answers, Morein. Trouble is they are given in a language that
you have problems properly comprehending - American English.

[Robert Morein]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>>>
>>>> "Pooh Bear" >
>>>> wrote in message ...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Arny Krueger wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2. If the computer hibernates and is restored from
>>>>>>>>> hibernated state, the midi in connection breaks. I
>>>>>>>>> thought this was a problem with my midiman usb
>>>>>>>>> converter, so I switched to a Creative Audigy ZS
>>>>>>>>> game port. However, the same happens.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Simple, really, turn the hibernate function off.
>>>>>>>> If you need to put something in stand by, go to your
>>>>>>>> energy settings and just let the monitor swith off
>>>>>>>> after a while.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would like to use hibernate, because the difference
>>>>>>> in power consumption is quite substantial. For
>>>>>>> example, my 2.6g P4 draws 110 watts operating, 70
>>>>>>> watts standby, and 0 watts hibernating.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You do understand that when a machine hibernates, it
>>>>>> pretty well breaks all
>>>>>> connections with outside I/O devices, right?
>>>>>
>>>>> Anything that needs a 'sync' is going to lose it for
>>>>> sure.
>>>
>>>> Not inevitably.
>>>
>>> Yes, inevitably. No power, no synch.
>>>
>>>> IME, firewire connections to external sound devices do
>>>> break.
>>>
>>> This is a debating trade ploy. The discussion was about
>>> MIDI, and now discussion has switched to IEE1394.
>>> However, Morein's debating trade ploy just digs him in
>>> deeper, because he quickly makes false distinctions
>>> between USB and IEEE1394.
>>>> OTOH, usb connections to external
>>>> hard drives generally restore when the machine wakes up.
>>>
>>> So do IEE1394 connections. Both IEEE1394 and USB are
>>> hot-plug interfaces. Both can convey power to outside
>>> devices, which may confuse the unaware.
>>>> So do HIDs (human interface devices, as defined by
>>>> Microsoft, to include typing keyboards and pointing devices.
>>>
>>> This is yet another debating trade ploy. The discussion
>>> was about MIDI, IEEE1394 and USB and now discussion has
>>> switched to a class of I/O devices which are available
>>> commonly available with USB and yet another interface,
>>> the interface used for mini-DIN connectors such as found
>>> on legacy mice and keyboards. Morein has already demonstrated gross
>>> technical
>>> incompetence with his incorrect claims about MIDI.
>>> IEE1394, and USB which share in common the fact that
>>> they are by definition, hot-pluggable. The mini-DIN
>>> keyboard/mouse interface is commonly impmented either
>>> way. Typically hot-pluggable for keyboards, and mice on
>>> laptops, but not hot-pluggable on desktop computers. Why
>>> Morein would venture into an area with this greater
>>> complexity is unimaginable for a sane person, given how
>>> badly he's blown it with the simpler cases.
>>>> When the Midiman 1x1 stopped working after a hibernate
>>>> cycle, I did suspect a problem of this nature.
>>>
>>> Pretty simple really, you powered everything off, except
>>> perhaps the source MIDI device the SL880 keyboard.
>>>
>>>> So I switched to the MIDI interface on the Creative
>>>> sound card. This is a simple, asynchronous interface
>>>> similar in nature to a serial port.
>>>
>>> That's MIDI, no matter what hardware implements it.
>>>
>>>> The only device on it is a Fatar
>>>> SL880 keyboard, which is an output-only device.
>>>
>>>
>>>> If the Creative sound card driver is as well written as
>>>> a typical serial port driver, it should survive a
>>>> hibernate sequence.
>>>
>>> That depends on the program that you are trying to
>>> control with the SL880 keyboard.
>>>
>>>> OTOH, the problem may be in the Cubase program
>>>> itself. Perhaps it needs to get a new port handle on
>>>> wakeup, and fails to do so.
>>>
>>> How about that? ;-)
>
>> I'm looking for answers, not sarcasm.
>
> You're getting answers, Morein. Trouble is they are given in a language
> that you have problems properly comprehending - American English.
Arny, for the love of Christ, shut up. Nobody in this thread knows whether
the cause is the driver, the OS, or the app. There is an answer. There is no
shame on you, or me, or anybody else in not knowing the answer. So take your
adhominem crap and shove it.

[Arny Krueger]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message



> Arny, for the love of Christ, shut up.

Morien, since when did you become interested in Christianity, except to use
your pathetic misapprehensions about it to try to abuse me in public?

> Nobody in this
> thread knows whether the cause is the driver, the OS, or
> the app.

Given the operator, its probably an operator errror.

> There is an answer.

Yes Robert, but your bull-headed abuse of people who try to help you, as I
have tried to help you for years, as your PhD committed tried to help you
for years, won't help you get your problem solved.

>There is no shame on you, or
> me, or anybody else in not knowing the answer.

There is shame Robert in abusing people for your personal satisfaction,
especially people who have tried to help you for years and years.

> So take your adhominem crap and shove it.

Robert, if you had two working synapses to rub together, you'd learn from
this experience instead of accusing the people who tried to help you.

[Robert Morein]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
. ..
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>
>
>
>> Arny, for the love of Christ, shut up.
>
> Morien, since when did you become interested in Christianity, except to
> use your pathetic misapprehensions about it to try to abuse me in public?
>
>> Nobody in this
>> thread knows whether the cause is the driver, the OS, or
>> the app.
>
> Given the operator, its probably an operator errror.
>
>> There is an answer.
>
> Yes Robert, but your bull-headed abuse of people who try to help you, as I
> have tried to help you for years, as your PhD committed tried to help you
> for years, won't help you get your problem solved.
>
>>There is no shame on you, or
>> me, or anybody else in not knowing the answer.
>
> There is shame Robert in abusing people for your personal satisfaction,
> especially people who have tried to help you for years and years.
>
>> So take your adhominem crap and shove it.
>
> Robert, if you had two working synapses to rub together, you'd learn from
> this experience instead of accusing the people who tried to help you.
Arny, shut up. You don't know the answer. Fine. Nobody in this thread does.
Just shove that adhominem crap up your ass.

[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
>
> You do understand that when a machine hibernates, it pretty well breaks
> all connections with outside I/O devices, right?


You learned this on your last trip up at the mountains?
The hibernating bears were not avaiable for outside I/O connections?



--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDemon.com<<<<<<------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access

[GeoSynch]

Robert Morein wrote:

> I'm using Cubase LE on XP. I find the following:

> 2. If the computer hibernates and is restored from hibernated state, the midi
> in connection breaks. I thought this was a problem with my midiman usb
> converter, so I switched to a Creative Audigy ZS game port. However, the same
> happens.

Here's the answer to your 2nd question:
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=lang_en&as_qdr=all&q=cubase+windows+hibernate+site%3Acubase.net&lr=lang_en

Now, do the due diligence.


GeoSynch

[Citizen Ted]

On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 19:50:22 -0500, "Robert Morein"
> wrote:


>That is not an answer, Arny. You don't know the answer.

He doesn't. But I do.

When you come out of hibernate, the OS will gladly recognize external
devices that it supports natively. External devices that require 3rd
party drivers won't magikally re-appear. This hibernation return
problem is inherent in XP as well as OSX. There is no fix. Developers
can write the fanciest-shmanciest device drivers in all the world, and
they still "unplug" during hibernate.

You have options.

You can use a MIDI device supported natively by your OS. (feh)
You can re-load the device each damn time.
You can turn off hibernate.

I would recommend #3. If you are recording in the field and have
absolutely no access to AC power, then get a better battery. If you
are recording at home, in a studio or in the field with AC power, turn
off hibernate.

At some point you will have to decide whether or not your laptop is
going to be your DAW. If so, turn off the sounds, bells and whistles,
turn off unnecessary services, remove the ****e software, clean out
your nonpresent devices, streamline your system performance and turn
OFF the hibernate function.

- TR

[GeoSynch]

Citizen Ted wrote:

> At some point you will have to decide whether or not your laptop is
> going to be your DAW. If so, turn off the sounds, bells and whistles,
> turn off unnecessary services, remove the ****e software, clean out
> your nonpresent devices, streamline your system performance and turn
> OFF the hibernate function.

Here's a nice roundup of the subject:

"Optimizing Windows 2000 and Windows XP for Audio"
http://www.digitalproducer.com/2002/11_nov/features/11_04/optimize_pcaudio.htm


GeoSynch

[Agent 86]

Robert Morein wrote:

> That is not an answer, Arny. You don't know the answer.

Arny may well not know the answer, but he's got at least one leg up on you.
His computer actually works (AFAWK). Your dumb ass is here asking for
advice & when you get some pretty damn good advice (i.e. Don't ****ing run
hibernate on an audio system), you not only ignore it, you ****ing argue
with it.

Fine! take your damn dodgy, hibernating-ass computer home & play all by
****ing yourself. If you're too ****ing smart to take good advice then
nobody here really gives much of a rat's ass if your computer freezes.

Have a nice ****ing day.

[Arny Krueger]

"Citizen Ted" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 19:50:22 -0500, "Robert Morein"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>That is not an answer, Arny. You don't know the answer.
>
> He doesn't.

You're talking out of the back of your neck. You can't know what I do and
don't know without reading my mind. Given the years and years of bad blood
between Robert and I, I could have easily been giving him short shrift. I
know from years and years of bad experience that Robert makes a habit out of
biting any hand that tries to help him. In fact I gave him the short version
of what you provide below, except I failed to make an error that you made by
being overly general.

> But I do.

It turns out you screwed up by being overly general. But that's not fatal -
at least you gave it a try, and most of your advice is perfect.

> When you come out of hibernate, the OS will gladly recognize external
> devices that it supports natively. External devices that require 3rd
> party drivers won't magikally re-appear. This hibernation return
> problem is inherent in XP as well as OSX. There is no fix. Developers
> can write the fanciest-shmanciest device drivers in all the world, and
> they still "unplug" during hibernate.

That's essentially what Graham and I told Robert, before he started arguing
with us.

Except that there are external devices that require 3rd party drivers that
do re-appear without manual intervention. Just thinking about some that I
*know* work, I come up with a whole class of external third-party devices
that resume operation when the laptop comes out of hibernatiion -
USB-connected wireless network adaptors.

> You have options.

The easy, reliable one is the third one.

> You can use a MIDI device supported natively by your OS. (feh)
> You can re-load the device each damn time.
> You can turn off hibernate.


> I would recommend #3. If you are recording in the field and have
> absolutely no access to AC power, then get a better battery. If you
> are recording at home, in a studio or in the field with AC power, turn
> off hibernate.

If you read the OP, turning off hibernate was eliminated as a possibility.

> At some point you will have to decide whether or not your laptop is
> going to be your DAW. If so, turn off the sounds, bells and whistles,
> turn off unnecessary services, remove the ****e software, clean out
> your nonpresent devices, streamline your system performance and turn
> OFF the hibernate function.

That is exactly conventional wisdom, and of course very good advice.

[Robert Morein]

"Citizen Ted" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 19:50:22 -0500, "Robert Morein"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>That is not an answer, Arny. You don't know the answer.
>
> He doesn't. But I do.
>
> When you come out of hibernate, the OS will gladly recognize external
> devices that it supports natively. External devices that require 3rd
> party drivers won't magikally re-appear. This hibernation return
> problem is inherent in XP as well as OSX. There is no fix. Developers
> can write the fanciest-shmanciest device drivers in all the world, and
> they still "unplug" during hibernate.
>
> You have options.
>
> You can use a MIDI device supported natively by your OS. (feh)
> You can re-load the device each damn time.
> You can turn off hibernate.
>
Citizen Ted,
You're a standup guy! Thanks for the answer!

Regards,
Bob Morein

[Robert Morein]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Citizen Ted" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 19:50:22 -0500, "Robert Morein"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>That is not an answer, Arny. You don't know the answer.
>>
>> He doesn't.
>
> You're talking out of the back of your neck. You can't know what I do and
> don't know without reading my mind. Given the years and years of bad blood
> between Robert and I, I could have easily been giving him short shrift.

You don't know the answer, Arny.

Thanks to Ted!!!

[Robert Morein]

"GeoSynch" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Robert Morein wrote:
>
>> I'm using Cubase LE on XP. I find the following:
>
>> 2. If the computer hibernates and is restored from hibernated state, the
>> midi in connection breaks. I thought this was a problem with my midiman
>> usb converter, so I switched to a Creative Audigy ZS game port. However,
>> the same happens.
>
> Here's the answer to your 2nd question:
> http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=lang_en&as_qdr=all&q=cubase+windows+hibernate+site%3Acubase.net&lr=lang_en
>
> Now, do the due diligence.
>
>
> GeoSynch
GeoSynch,
"Citizen Ted" has answered the question. According to him, it is
impossible to author a 3rd party driver that correctly reinitializes after
awakening from hibernation. This means that it is not a QC issue with
respect to 3rd party software or hardware, but an intrinic property of the
XP kernel.

At this point, I would like to thank all those who responded in this
thread without adhomineum references. This was a technical question, and it
has now been adequately answered.

[George M. Middius]

Robert Morein said:

> > Given the years and years of bad blood
> > between Robert and I [sic], I could have easily been giving him short shrift.

> You don't know the answer, Arny.

This might be another case of Mr. **** having intended to give the right
answer only to be sidetracked by his filthy, christianity-addled brain.
As Turdborg has asserted frequently in the past: "If I'd said what I
should have said, I would have been 100's and 100's of %'s correct."

[ScottW]

Robert Morein wrote:
> "Greg Pasquariello" > wrote in message
> . ..
> >
> >
> > "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> > :
> >
> >> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >>
> >> > "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > You do understand that when a machine hibernates, it pretty well
> >> breaks
> >> > all connections with outside I/O devices, right?
> >>
> >> You do understand that this depends upon how the driver is written,
> >> right?
> >
> > You do understand that this doesn't invalidate the general truth of the
> > previous statement, right?
> >
> You do understand it's not generally true, don't you? -- that it depends on
> the specific driver interface? You do understand this, don't you?

So Bob... Citizen Ted clearly and concisely indicated that it does not
depend on the driver.
You have graciously accepted his explanation.

But in review... Sander, Greg, and Arny were right. Your endless
argument that it depended on the driver was absolutely incorrect.
Shouldn't you apologize to them?

Just wondering what kind of man you are.

ScottW

[Robert Morein]

"ScottW" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Robert Morein wrote:
>> "Greg Pasquariello" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>> >
>> >
>> > "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>> > :
>> >
>> >> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> >> ...
>> >>
>> >> > "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > You do understand that when a machine hibernates, it pretty well
>> >> breaks
>> >> > all connections with outside I/O devices, right?
>> >>
>> >> You do understand that this depends upon how the driver is written,
>> >> right?
>> >
>> > You do understand that this doesn't invalidate the general truth of the
>> > previous statement, right?
>> >
>> You do understand it's not generally true, don't you? -- that it depends
>> on
>> the specific driver interface? You do understand this, don't you?
>
> So Bob... Citizen Ted clearly and concisely indicated that it does not
> depend on the driver.
> You have graciously accepted his explanation.
>
> But in review... Sander, Greg, and Arny were right. Your endless
> argument that it depended on the driver was absolutely incorrect.
> Shouldn't you apologize to them?
>
I never made "that argument."
I wondered what the cause is. Thanks to "Citizen Ted", I know.

[Arny Krueger]

"ScottW" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Robert Morein wrote:
>> "Greg Pasquariello" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>> >
>> >
>> > "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>> > :
>> >
>> >> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> >> ...
>> >>
>> >> > "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > You do understand that when a machine hibernates, it pretty well
>> >> breaks
>> >> > all connections with outside I/O devices, right?
>> >>
>> >> You do understand that this depends upon how the driver is written,
>> >> right?
>> >
>> > You do understand that this doesn't invalidate the general truth of the
>> > previous statement, right?
>> >
>> You do understand it's not generally true, don't you? -- that it depends
>> on
>> the specific driver interface? You do understand this, don't you?
>
> So Bob... Citizen Ted clearly and concisely indicated that it does not
> depend on the driver.
> You have graciously accepted his explanation.
>
> But in review... Sander, Greg, and Arny were right. Your endless
> argument that it depended on the driver was absolutely incorrect.
> Shouldn't you apologize to them?
>
> Just wondering what kind of man you are.

We've got a zillion *men* like Robert Morein in the Grosse Pointes. None of
them can take responsibility for their mistakes and intentional
reprehensible actions.

[Arny Krueger]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...
>
> "GeoSynch" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
>> Robert Morein wrote:
>>
>>> I'm using Cubase LE on XP. I find the following:
>>
>>> 2. If the computer hibernates and is restored from hibernated state, the
>>> midi in connection breaks. I thought this was a problem with my midiman
>>> usb converter, so I switched to a Creative Audigy ZS game port. However,
>>> the same happens.
>>
>> Here's the answer to your 2nd question:
>> http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=lang_en&as_qdr=all&q=cubase+windows+hibernate+site%3Acubase.net&lr=lang_en
>>
>> Now, do the due diligence.
>>
>>
>> GeoSynch
> GeoSynch,
> "Citizen Ted" has answered the question. According to him, it is
> impossible to author a 3rd party driver that correctly reinitializes after
> awakening from hibernation. This means that it is not a QC issue with
> respect to 3rd party software or hardware, but an intrinic property of the
> XP kernel.

And I quickly proved "Citizen Ted" wrong using the well-known example of a
USB wireless network interface.

To briefly review, every properly-operating wireless USB wireless network
interface in existence correctly reinitializes itself and its communication
with the LAN when the computer it is attached to comes out of hibernation.
If it didn't people would have to manually reinitialize it. They'd never
tolerate this.

[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
. ..
>

>
> We've got a zillion *men* like Robert Morein in the Grosse Pointes. None
> of them can take responsibility for their mistakes and intentional
> reprehensible actions.
>

I see. The Neighborhood Watch is after you again.



--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDemon.com<<<<<<------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access

[Robert Morein]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "GeoSynch" > wrote in message
>> ink.net...
>>> Robert Morein wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm using Cubase LE on XP. I find the following:
>>>
>>>> 2. If the computer hibernates and is restored from hibernated state,
>>>> the midi in connection breaks. I thought this was a problem with my
>>>> midiman usb converter, so I switched to a Creative Audigy ZS game port.
>>>> However, the same happens.
>>>
>>> Here's the answer to your 2nd question:
>>> http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=lang_en&as_qdr=all&q=cubase+windows+hibernate+site%3Acubase.net&lr=lang_en
>>>
>>> Now, do the due diligence.
>>>
>>>
>>> GeoSynch
>> GeoSynch,
>> "Citizen Ted" has answered the question. According to him, it is
>> impossible to author a 3rd party driver that correctly reinitializes
>> after awakening from hibernation. This means that it is not a QC issue
>> with respect to 3rd party software or hardware, but an intrinic property
>> of the XP kernel.
>
> And I quickly proved "Citizen Ted" wrong using the well-known example of
> a USB wireless network interface.
>
> To briefly review, every properly-operating wireless USB wireless network
> interface in existence correctly reinitializes itself and its
> communication with the LAN when the computer it is attached to comes out
> of hibernation. If it didn't people would have to manually reinitialize
> it. They'd never tolerate this.
>
Thanks again to Citizen Ted, for his useful advice. It may not be univerally
true, but he has outlined a basic problem with XP drivers.

Arny, you were no help at all. You just polluted this thread, because you
consider me an "enemy." Citizen Ted's answer was short and to the point.

[Arny Krueger]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>>

>> And I quickly proved "Citizen Ted" wrong using the well-known example of
>> a USB wireless network interface.
>>
>> To briefly review, every properly-operating wireless USB wireless network
>> interface in existence correctly reinitializes itself and its
>> communication with the LAN when the computer it is attached to comes out
>> of hibernation. If it didn't people would have to manually reinitialize
>> it. They'd never tolerate this.

> Thanks again to Citizen Ted, for his useful advice. It may not be
> univerally true, but he has outlined a basic problem with XP drivers.

Wrong again. The example I cited proves that this is not a problem that is
inherent with XP drivers.

> Arny, you were no help at all.

Sue me for objecting to having my hand bitten when I provided some help.

> You just polluted this thread, because you consider me an "enemy."

Just goes to show Morein that you can't take responsibility for your years
of reprehsible action and your bad manners when Graham and I tried to help
you.

>Citizen Ted's answer was short and to the point.


OK, lets forget that the correct parts of it duplicated what Graham and I
said earlier, and that it contained a major error.

[Robert Morein]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>
>>> And I quickly proved "Citizen Ted" wrong using the well-known example
>>> of a USB wireless network interface.
>>>
>>> To briefly review, every properly-operating wireless USB wireless
>>> network interface in existence correctly reinitializes itself and its
>>> communication with the LAN when the computer it is attached to comes out
>>> of hibernation. If it didn't people would have to manually reinitialize
>>> it. They'd never tolerate this.
>
>> Thanks again to Citizen Ted, for his useful advice. It may not be
>> univerally true, but he has outlined a basic problem with XP drivers.
>
> Wrong again. The example I cited proves that this is not a problem that is
> inherent with XP drivers.
>
>> Arny, you were no help at all.
>
> Sue me for objecting to having my hand bitten when I provided some help.
>
>> You just polluted this thread, because you consider me an "enemy."
>
> Just goes to show Morein that you can't take responsibility for your years
> of reprehsible action and your bad manners when Graham and I tried to help
> you.
>
>>Citizen Ted's answer was short and to the point.
>
>
> OK, lets forget that the correct parts of it duplicated what Graham and I
> said earlier, and that it contained a major error.
Arny, you're just making noise. Citizen Ted provided accurate, concise
information. This thread could have been maybe four replies long, but
instead, you felt a need to publicly state that you are being nasty to me
because of "bad blood." Alright, so you don't like me. That is your
privilege. But what could you expect to gain by publicly stating

"Given the years and years of bad blood between Robert and I, I could have
easily been giving him short shrift. I know from years and years of bad
experience that Robert makes a habit out of biting any hand that tries to
help him."

The above statement, in which you admit mucking up the thread because of
evil impulses does not reflect well on whoever says it, for whatever reason.
Why would you want it in the public record?
???

[Arny Krueger]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>
>>>> And I quickly proved "Citizen Ted" wrong using the well-known example
>>>> of a USB wireless network interface.
>>>>
>>>> To briefly review, every properly-operating wireless USB wireless
>>>> network interface in existence correctly reinitializes itself and its
>>>> communication with the LAN when the computer it is attached to comes
>>>> out of hibernation. If it didn't people would have to manually
>>>> reinitialize it. They'd never tolerate this.
>>
>>> Thanks again to Citizen Ted, for his useful advice. It may not be
>>> univerally true, but he has outlined a basic problem with XP drivers.
>>
>> Wrong again. The example I cited proves that this is not a problem that
>> is inherent with XP drivers.
>>
>>> Arny, you were no help at all.
>>
>> Sue me for objecting to having my hand bitten when I provided some help.
>>
>>> You just polluted this thread, because you consider me an "enemy."
>>
>> Just goes to show Morein that you can't take responsibility for your
>> years of reprehsible action and your bad manners when Graham and I tried
>> to help you.
>>
>>>Citizen Ted's answer was short and to the point.
>>
>>
>> OK, lets forget that the correct parts of it duplicated what Graham and I
>> said earlier, and that it contained a major error.

> Arny, you're just making noise.

I'm talking facts.

>Citizen Ted provided accurate, concise information.

The correct portions of his information duplicated what Graham and I had
posted earlier.

> This thread could have been maybe four replies long, but instead, you felt
> a need to publicly state that you are being nasty to me because of "bad
> blood."

No, Graham and I showed our displeasure at your telling us we were wrong
when we tried to help you Robert.

>Alright, so you don't like me.

More significantly Robert, you've had a vendetta against me for years.
You've made many gratuitous attacks on me. Your negative response to the
help that Graham and I provided was typical for you.

>That is your privilege. But what could you expect to gain by publicly
>stating
> "Given the years and years of bad blood between Robert and I, I could have
> easily been giving him short shrift. I know from years and years of bad
> experience that Robert makes a habit out of biting any hand that tries to
> help him."

Just giving some background facts that explain your bad behaviour, Robert.


> The above statement, in which you admit mucking up the thread because of
> evil impulses does not reflect well on whoever says it, for whatever
> reason.

You already polluted the tread Robert, when you attacked the advice that
Graham and I provided.

> Why would you want it in the public record?

Just explaining to any lurkers that your bad behavior was typical for you,
Robert.

> ???

Come on Robert, have you forgotten your horiffic treatment of me over the
years so quickly?

Do they give you a new brain every week?

[Robert Morein]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>> And I quickly proved "Citizen Ted" wrong using the well-known example
>>>>> of a USB wireless network interface.
>>>>>
>>>>> To briefly review, every properly-operating wireless USB wireless
>>>>> network interface in existence correctly reinitializes itself and its
>>>>> communication with the LAN when the computer it is attached to comes
>>>>> out of hibernation. If it didn't people would have to manually
>>>>> reinitialize it. They'd never tolerate this.
>>>
>>>> Thanks again to Citizen Ted, for his useful advice. It may not be
>>>> univerally true, but he has outlined a basic problem with XP drivers.
>>>
>>> Wrong again. The example I cited proves that this is not a problem that
>>> is inherent with XP drivers.
>>>
>>>> Arny, you were no help at all.
>>>
>>> Sue me for objecting to having my hand bitten when I provided some help.
>>>
>>>> You just polluted this thread, because you consider me an "enemy."
>>>
>>> Just goes to show Morein that you can't take responsibility for your
>>> years of reprehsible action and your bad manners when Graham and I tried
>>> to help you.
>>>
>>>>Citizen Ted's answer was short and to the point.
>>>
>>>
>>> OK, lets forget that the correct parts of it duplicated what Graham and
>>> I said earlier, and that it contained a major error.
>
>> Arny, you're just making noise.
>
> I'm talking facts.
>
>>Citizen Ted provided accurate, concise information.
>
> The correct portions of his information duplicated what Graham and I had
> posted earlier.
>
>> This thread could have been maybe four replies long, but instead, you
>> felt a need to publicly state that you are being nasty to me because of
>> "bad blood."
>
> No, Graham and I showed our displeasure at your telling us we were wrong
> when we tried to help you Robert.
>
>>Alright, so you don't like me.
>
> More significantly Robert, you've had a vendetta against me for years.
> You've made many gratuitous attacks on me. Your negative response to the
> help that Graham and I provided was typical for you.
>
>>That is your privilege. But what could you expect to gain by publicly
>>stating
>> "Given the years and years of bad blood between Robert and I, I could
>> have easily been giving him short shrift. I know from years and years of
>> bad experience that Robert makes a habit out of biting any hand that
>> tries to help him."
>
> Just giving some background facts that explain your bad behaviour, Robert.
>
>
>> The above statement, in which you admit mucking up the thread because of
>> evil impulses does not reflect well on whoever says it, for whatever
>> reason.
>
> You already polluted the tread Robert,
THREAD

when you attacked the advice that
> Graham and I provided.
>
>> Why would you want it in the public record?
>
> Just explaining to any lurkers that your bad behavior was typical for you,
> Robert.
>
>> ???
>
> Come on Robert, have you forgotten your horiffic treatment of me over the
> years so quickly?
>
Nonsense. I have impeached your so-called "science". About Arny the
individual, I see only that you are a very unhappy person.

[paul packer]

On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 21:34:53 -0500, George M. Middius <cmndr
[underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net> wrote:


>This might be another case of Mr. **** having intended to give the right
>answer only to be sidetracked by his filthy, christianity-addled brain.

Please post proof that Christianity addled Arnie's brain, George.

[Richard Crowley]

"paul packer" wrote ...
> On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 21:34:53 -0500, George M. Middius <cmndr
> [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net> wrote:
>
>>This might be another case of Mr. **** having intended to give the
>>right
>>answer only to be sidetracked by his filthy, christianity-addled
>>brain.
>
> Please post proof that Christianity addled Arnie's brain, George.

You appear to be assuming that something else hasn't
addled George's brain. Good luck with that.

[Pooh Bear]

Richard Crowley wrote:

> "paul packer" wrote ...
> > On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 21:34:53 -0500, George M. Middius <cmndr
> > [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net> wrote:
> >
> >>This might be another case of Mr. **** having intended to give the
> >>right
> >>answer only to be sidetracked by his filthy, christianity-addled
> >>brain.
> >
> > Please post proof that Christianity addled Arnie's brain, George.
>
> You appear to be assuming that something else hasn't
> addled George's brain. Good luck with that.

You're saying that Middius actually *has* a brain ?

I hadn't considered that possibilty !

Graham

[George M. Middius]

paul packer said:

> >This might be another case of Mr. **** having intended to give the right
> >answer only to be sidetracked by his filthy, christianity-addled brain.
>
> Please post proof that Christianity addled Arnie's brain, George.

You're right. The phoney christianity might be only a symptom.

[Arny Krueger]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...

> Nonsense. I have impeached your so-called "science".

True, you've made some ludicrous accusations.

Trouble is, my so-called science isn't typical of just me. There's the
slight matter of published refereed scientific papers, international
standards organization documents, procedures widely used by large audio
manufacturers, etc., etc. ABX got to be a whole lot more than just me, and
DBTs got to be a whole lot more than just ABX.

Basically, we're now talking about Robert Morien standing in front of a big
chunk of the audio industry and even the scientific establishment, futily
shaking his fist.

> About Arny the individual, I see only that you are a very unhappy person.

About Robert the individual, I see that he externalizes a whole lot.

"ScottW" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Robert Morein wrote:
>> "Greg Pasquariello" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>> >
>> >
>> > "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>> > :
>> >
>> >> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> >> ...
>> >>
>> >> > "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > You do understand that when a machine hibernates, it pretty well
>> >> breaks
>> >> > all connections with outside I/O devices, right?
>> >>
>> >> You do understand that this depends upon how the driver is written,
>> >> right?
>> >
>> > You do understand that this doesn't invalidate the general truth of the
>> > previous statement, right?
>> >
>> You do understand it's not generally true, don't you? -- that it depends
>> on
>> the specific driver interface? You do understand this, don't you?
>
> So Bob... Citizen Ted clearly and concisely indicated that it does not
> depend on the driver.
> You have graciously accepted his explanation.
>
> But in review... Sander, Greg, and Arny were right. Your endless
> argument that it depended on the driver was absolutely incorrect.
> Shouldn't you apologize to them?
>
> Just wondering what kind of man you are.
>
> ScottW
>
The worst kind.

[Robert Morein]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> Nonsense. I have impeached your so-called "science".
>
> True, you've made some ludicrous accusations.
>
> Trouble is, my so-called science isn't typical of just me. There's the
> slight matter of published refereed scientific papers, international
> standards organization documents, procedures widely used by large audio
> manufacturers, etc., etc. ABX got to be a whole lot more than just me, and
> DBTs got to be a whole lot more than just ABX.
>
> Basically, we're now talking about Robert Morien standing in front of a
> big chunk of the audio industry and even the scientific establishment,
> futily shaking his fist.
>
[snip]

The above is actually one of the issues in dispute. Therefore, it is
circular reasoning for you to use it to justify your correctness.

[Arny Krueger]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>> Nonsense. I have impeached your so-called "science".
>>
>> True, you've made some ludicrous accusations.
>>
>> Trouble is, my so-called science isn't typical of just me. There's the
>> slight matter of published refereed scientific papers, international
>> standards organization documents, procedures widely used by large audio
>> manufacturers, etc., etc. ABX got to be a whole lot more than just me,
>> and DBTs got to be a whole lot more than just ABX.

>> Basically, we're now talking about Robert Morien standing in front of a
>> big chunk of the audio industry and even the scientific establishment,
>> futily shaking his fist.

> The above is actually one of the issues in dispute.

Only in the minds of the ignorant and hopelessly biased.

The following are indisputable facts related to DBTs:

* Published refereed scientific papers

* International standards organization documents

* Procedures widely used by large audio manufacturers,

* Other kinds of DBTs than just ABX.

[Robert Morein]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>
>>>> Nonsense. I have impeached your so-called "science".
>>>
>>> True, you've made some ludicrous accusations.
>>>
>>> Trouble is, my so-called science isn't typical of just me. There's the
>>> slight matter of published refereed scientific papers, international
>>> standards organization documents, procedures widely used by large audio
>>> manufacturers, etc., etc. ABX got to be a whole lot more than just me,
>>> and DBTs got to be a whole lot more than just ABX.
>
>>> Basically, we're now talking about Robert Morien standing in front of a
>>> big chunk of the audio industry and even the scientific establishment,
>>> futily shaking his fist.
>
>> The above is actually one of the issues in dispute.
>
> Only in the minds of the ignorant and hopelessly biased.
>
Once again, this is one of the issues in dispute.

[Arny Krueger]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> . ..
>>
>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>> Nonsense. I have impeached your so-called "science".
>>>>
>>>> True, you've made some ludicrous accusations.
>>>>
>>>> Trouble is, my so-called science isn't typical of just me. There's the
>>>> slight matter of published refereed scientific papers, international
>>>> standards organization documents, procedures widely used by large audio
>>>> manufacturers, etc., etc. ABX got to be a whole lot more than just me,
>>>> and DBTs got to be a whole lot more than just ABX.
>>
>>>> Basically, we're now talking about Robert Morien standing in front of a
>>>> big chunk of the audio industry and even the scientific establishment,
>>>> futily shaking his fist.
>>
>>> The above is actually one of the issues in dispute.
>>
>> Only in the minds of the ignorant and hopelessly biased.
>>
> Once again, this is one of the issues in dispute.

You can dispute what you want, Morein. Your challenge is to find anybody
other than some RAO sockpuppets like Middius and Sackman, who care.

[ScottW]

Robert Morein wrote:
> "ScottW" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> >
> > Robert Morein wrote:
> >> "Greg Pasquariello" > wrote in message
> >> . ..
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> >> > :
> >> >
> >> >> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> >> >> ...
> >> >>
> >> >> > "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > You do understand that when a machine hibernates, it pretty well
> >> >> breaks
> >> >> > all connections with outside I/O devices, right?
> >> >>
> >> >> You do understand that this depends upon how the driver is written,
> >> >> right?
> >> >
> >> > You do understand that this doesn't invalidate the general truth of the
> >> > previous statement, right?
> >> >
> >> You do understand it's not generally true, don't you? -- that it depends
> >> on
> >> the specific driver interface? You do understand this, don't you?
> >
> > So Bob... Citizen Ted clearly and concisely indicated that it does not
> > depend on the driver.
> > You have graciously accepted his explanation.
> >
> > But in review... Sander, Greg, and Arny were right. Your endless
> > argument that it depended on the driver was absolutely incorrect.
> > Shouldn't you apologize to them?
> >
> I never made "that argument."

Lets repeat a small seqment of this exchange since you are apparently
having short term memory difficulties.

Arny said (and it's still there above if you need a reference),
"You do understand that when a machine hibernates, it pretty well
breaks all connections with outside I/O devices, right? "

To which you replied, "You do understand that this depends upon how the
driver is written, right? " (Which is also still above for your
reference).

So once again in summary. I said, "Your endless argument that it
depended on the driver" to which you claim you "never made that
argument" can be easily shown to be incorrect by your earlier now
known to be incorrect statement "this depends on how the driver is
written".

Clearly continued denial of your compound error may bring your
competence further into question. Some may even declare you inadequate
for the group and request your departure.

ScottW

[Robert Morein]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>>
>>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>>> Nonsense. I have impeached your so-called "science".
>>>>>
>>>>> True, you've made some ludicrous accusations.
>>>>>
>>>>> Trouble is, my so-called science isn't typical of just me. There's the
>>>>> slight matter of published refereed scientific papers, international
>>>>> standards organization documents, procedures widely used by large
>>>>> audio manufacturers, etc., etc. ABX got to be a whole lot more than
>>>>> just me, and DBTs got to be a whole lot more than just ABX.
>>>
>>>>> Basically, we're now talking about Robert Morien standing in front of
>>>>> a big chunk of the audio industry and even the scientific
>>>>> establishment, futily shaking his fist.
>>>
>>>> The above is actually one of the issues in dispute.
>>>
>>> Only in the minds of the ignorant and hopelessly biased.
>>>
>> Once again, this is one of the issues in dispute.
>
> You can dispute what you want, Morein. Your challenge is to find anybody
> other than some RAO sockpuppets like Middius and Sackman, who care.
Ludovic Mirabel has presented an excellent refutation of your chosen point
of view. John Atkinson is part of our camp. So are Andre Jute, Paul Packer,
and Eddie. That makes eight, off the top of my head, on my side. You have
the dull-minded Duh-Mikey, and afew other people. There is no way to prove
that either side has the majority.

[ScottW]

Robert Morein wrote:
> Ludovic Mirabel has presented an excellent refutation of your chosen point
> of view.

I'm sure even the twisted logic of Elmir finds your endorsement....
troubling.

ScottW

[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> You can dispute what you want, Morein. Your challenge is to find anybody
> other than some RAO sockpuppets like Middius and Sackman, who care.

Redundant!!!
We sockpuppets, not being actual people, can't care, anyway.



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[George M. Middius]

Clyde Slick said:

> Redundant!!!
> We sockpuppets, not being actual people, can't care, anyway.

I'm having "I Care" embroidered on my sleeve.

[Arny Krueger]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...

>> You can dispute what you want, Morein. Your challenge is to find anybody
>> other than some RAO sockpuppets like Middius and Sackman, who care.

> Ludovic Mirabel has presented an excellent refutation of your chosen point
> of view.

Only on Usenet does Mirabel get more than a second's notice for his bizarre
ideas.

> John Atkinson is part of our camp.

He and his backers have got millions at stake. Obviously, the man is totally
unbiased.

> So are Andre Jute,

A sockpuppet.

> Paul Packer,

A doddering old fool who should go out and buy a clue.

> and Eddie.

Whose expression of his ideas is so twisted and confused that it would
embarass any serious twelve-year-old.

>That makes eight, off the top of my head, on my side.

...on RAO, not the real world.

> You have the dull-minded Duh-Mikey, and afew other people.

I have the AES, the ITU, the FDA, Dolby, JBL and countless other audio
companies, and most of the civilized world outside of RAO.

>There is no way to prove that either side has the majority.

Only if one is confused about RAO somehow representing reality. Get out
much, Robert? I didn't think so!

[Arny Krueger]

"ScottW" > wrote in message
oups.com...

> Robert Morein wrote:
>> Ludovic Mirabel has presented an excellent refutation of your chosen
>> point
>> of view.

> I'm sure even the twisted logic of Elmir finds your endorsement....
> troubling.

Remember that Morein also takes credit for the collapse of Brian McCarty's
recording empire.

Remember that Morein is the only RAO-er to ever get officially thrown out of
the Supreme Court of the good ole' US-of-A.

We're talking world-class stupidity, arrogance and malevolence here.

If Middius hadn't turned RAO into a total wasteland, Morein would be shouted
down in a heartbeat or six.

[Arny Krueger]

"Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>>
>> You can dispute what you want, Morein. Your challenge is to find anybody
>> other than some RAO sockpuppets like Middius and Sackman, who care.
>
> Redundant!!!
> We sockpuppets, not being actual people, can't care, anyway.

Agreed. Therefore your opinions are meaningless.

[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> ...
>>

>
>> John Atkinson is part of our camp.
>
> He and his backers have got millions at stake. Obviously, the man is
> totally unbiased.
>

"At least" you are impoverished.



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[George M. Middius]

Clyde Slick said to the Krooglebeast:

> "At least" you are impoverished.

Arnii is too scared to get out in the world and earn a proper living.

[ScottW]

George M. Middius wrote:
> Clyde Slick said to the Krooglebeast:
>
> > "At least" you are impoverished.
>
> Arnii is too scared to get out in the world and earn a proper living.

That's not so bad... some are so scared they've never even been
seen.

Seeking a Middius sighting from anyone.... just one will do.

ScottW

[Arny Krueger]

"ScottW" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> George M. Middius wrote:
>> Clyde Slick said to the Krooglebeast:

>> > "At least" you are impoverished.

I pay taxes on earned income just like most others how are gainfully
employed.

>> Arnii is too scared to get out in the world and earn a proper living.

> That's not so bad... some are so scared they've never even been
> seen.

I suspect that the person who animates the Middius sockpuppet has been seen.

Fact is that running a service-oriented business, based largely on services
rendered at the customer's site, is about as much "out in the world" as it
gets. Yeah, that's what I do 5-6 days a week.

[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>>
>>> You can dispute what you want, Morein. Your challenge is to find anybody
>>> other than some RAO sockpuppets like Middius and Sackman, who care.
>>
>> Redundant!!!
>> We sockpuppets, not being actual people, can't care, anyway.
>
> Agreed. Therefore your opinions are meaningless.
>

What opinions?
sockpuppets can't have them either.



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[Arny Krueger]

"Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You can dispute what you want, Morein. Your challenge is to find
>>>> anybody other than some RAO sockpuppets like Middius and Sackman, who
>>>> care.
>>>
>>> Redundant!!!
>>> We sockpuppets, not being actual people, can't care, anyway.
>>
>> Agreed. Therefore your opinions are meaningless.
>>
>
> What opinions?
> sockpuppets can't have them either.

Well then where do the opinions you post here come from, Art?

[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Fact is that running a service-oriented business, based largely on
> services rendered at the customer's site, is about as much "out in the
> world" as it gets. Yeah, that's what I do 5-6 days a week.
>

That would accurately describe a trash collector.



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[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You can dispute what you want, Morein. Your challenge is to find
>>>>> anybody other than some RAO sockpuppets like Middius and Sackman, who
>>>>> care.
>>>>
>>>> Redundant!!!
>>>> We sockpuppets, not being actual people, can't care, anyway.
>>>
>>> Agreed. Therefore your opinions are meaningless.
>>>
>>
>> What opinions?
>> sockpuppets can't have them either.
>
> Well then where do the opinions you post here come from, Art?
>

Being a sockpuppet, I am unable to care about such things.
Not caring about such things has resulted in my not
really thinking about them, which I can't do anyway, being
a sockpuppet and all that, so, I don't know. Maybe you can ask, Geoge, Dave,
JA, or even Richman. Check your calendar, and see who is
animating me this week. Be careful, I'm between shifts.



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[paul packer]

On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 07:12:01 -0500, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:


>> Paul Packer,
>
>A doddering old fool who should go out and buy a clue.

I tried, Arnie, but they were out of stock that day. The clue truck
had a flat tire.

BTW, if I'm old and doddering, what are you?

[Clyde Slick]

"paul packer" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 07:12:01 -0500, "Arny Krueger" >
> wrote:
>
>
>>> Paul Packer,
>>
>>A doddering old fool who should go out and buy a clue.
>
> I tried, Arnie, but they were out of stock that day. The clue truck
> had a flat tire.
>
> BTW, if I'm old and doddering, what are you?

Arny is an old nag. Old nags are
sent to the clue factory to be rendered.



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[George M. Middius]

Clyde Slick said:

> Arny is an old nag. Old nags are
> sent to the clue factory to be rendered.

I doubt that process will be successful. They'll probably pack him and
send him to the fertilizer factory.

[Arny Krueger]

"paul packer" > wrote in message

> On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 07:12:01 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>> Paul Packer,
>>
>> A doddering old fool who should go out and buy a clue.
>
> I tried, Arnie, but they were out of stock that day. The
> clue truck had a flat tire.
>
> BTW, if I'm old and doddering, what are you?

Someone who has greater mental power and flexibility than many half my age,
which I actually regret for their sake.

[paul packer]

Arny Krueger wrote:
> "paul packer" > wrote in message
>
> > On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 07:12:01 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
> > > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>> Paul Packer,
> >>
> >> A doddering old fool who should go out and buy a clue.
> >
> > I tried, Arnie, but they were out of stock that day. The
> > clue truck had a flat tire.
> >
> > BTW, if I'm old and doddering, what are you?
>
> Someone who has greater mental power and flexibility than many half my age,
> which I actually regret for their sake.

Oh Arnie, you forgot the smiley again. Here it is just to remind you of
what to do when you're obviously joking. :-)

[George M. Middius]

paul packer said:

> > > BTW, if I'm old and doddering, what are you?
> >
> > Someone who has greater mental power and flexibility than many half my age,
> > which I actually regret for their sake.
>
> Oh Arnie, you forgot the smiley again. Here it is just to remind you of
> what to do when you're obviously joking. :-)

The only time Krooger "jokes" is when he's in church or has his hand on
a bible.

[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
. ..
> "paul packer" > wrote in message
>
>> On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 07:12:01 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> Paul Packer,
>>>
>>> A doddering old fool who should go out and buy a clue.
>>
>> I tried, Arnie, but they were out of stock that day. The
>> clue truck had a flat tire.
>>
>> BTW, if I'm old and doddering, what are you?
>
> Someone who has greater mental power and flexibility than many half my
> age, which I actually regret for their sake.
>

Then how come you only made it to third rate
Oakland U, I woulkd expect someone of your
swlf-describewd caliber to be degreed from CalTech, MIT, Berkely,
or Carnegie-Mellon.

Hey, here's a list of the top 55 engineering universities
Where is Oakland U? not on the list.

http://www.graduateshotline.com/ranks/

Oh, wait, here is a mention from

http://www.admin.mtu.edu/urel/news/media_relations/141/

"US News ranked the top 123 schools in its "National Universities--Doctoral"
category, listing others in tier 3 (127 through a tie at 186) and tier 4
(191-248) alphabetically. Michigan universities listed in tier 3 are Wayne
State University and Western Michigan University. In tier 4 are Central
Michigan University and Oakland University."

My, my, a tier 4 University, ranked between 191 to 248, out of 248 of all
four tiers.



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[George M. Middius]

Clyde Slick said:

> State University and Western Michigan University. In tier 4 are Central
> Michigan University and Oakland University."
>
> My, my, a tier 4 University, ranked between 191 to 248, out of 248 of all
> four tiers.

'Borg spin says at least™ Krooger was admitted to a university despite
being certifiable. Quite an accomplishment, all things considered.

[Arny Krueger]

"Clyde Slick" > wrote in message

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> "paul packer" > wrote in message
>>

>>> BTW, if I'm old and doddering, what are you?
>>
>> Someone who has greater mental power and flexibility
>> than many half my age, which I actually regret for their
>> sake.
>
> Then how come you only made it to third rate
> Oakland U,

That was over 40 years ago.

I was a late bloomer.

[dave weil]

On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 12:26:18 -0500, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>"Clyde Slick" > wrote in message

>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>> "paul packer" > wrote in message
>>>
>
>>>> BTW, if I'm old and doddering, what are you?
>>>
>>> Someone who has greater mental power and flexibility
>>> than many half my age, which I actually regret for their
>>> sake.
>>
>> Then how come you only made it to third rate
>> Oakland U,
>
>That was over 40 years ago.
>
>I was a late bloomer.

Interesting. I guess this confirms the status of Oakland U.

[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>> "paul packer" > wrote in message
>>>
>
>>>> BTW, if I'm old and doddering, what are you?
>>>
>>> Someone who has greater mental power and flexibility
>>> than many half my age, which I actually regret for their
>>> sake.
>>
>> Then how come you only made it to third rate
>> Oakland U,
>
> That was over 40 years ago.
>

I thought you spent some time in the military before you went to college.
40 years ago puts you at age 19
over 40 years ago puts you at 18 or less.

> I was a late bloomer.

now you are just a prickly old cactus.



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[Clyde Slick]

"dave weil" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 12:26:18 -0500, "Arny Krueger" >
> wrote:
>
>>"Clyde Slick" > wrote in message

>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>> . ..
>>>> "paul packer" > wrote in message
>>>>
>>
>>>>> BTW, if I'm old and doddering, what are you?
>>>>
>>>> Someone who has greater mental power and flexibility
>>>> than many half my age, which I actually regret for their
>>>> sake.
>>>
>>> Then how come you only made it to third rate
>>> Oakland U,
>>
>>That was over 40 years ago.
>>
>>I was a late bloomer.
>
> Interesting. I guess this confirms the status of Oakland U.

No! Further research indicates that it is fourth rate.



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[EddieM]

> Arny Krueger wrote
>
>
>
>
>
>> and Eddie.
>
>
> Whose expression of his ideas is so twisted and confused that it would
> embarass any serious twelve-year-old.




Such as the fact that you are an arrogant charlatan and egotistical
audio poseur who is a pompously posturing numbnut swaggering
around with a puffed-up windbag filled with **** from brain. No
contest there.
..

[Arny Krueger]

"EddieM" > wrote in message
. com

> Such as the fact that you are an arrogant charlatan and
> egotistical audio poseur who is a pompously posturing
> numbnut swaggering around with a puffed-up windbag filled
> with **** from brain. No contest there.


Flattery will get you nowhere with me, Eddie.